Apparently tax cuts for the middle class are chicken crap, according to the heir apparent speaker John Boehner. Okkkayyyy.
One of my most serious pet peeves with the Democrats is their ability to drop the ball and allow the Republicans to define their rhetoric. Today the House votes to extend middle class tax cuts created during the Bush administration, in accordance with what President Obama campaigned for. The tax cuts would expire for anyone making more than $250,000.
As I sat up in the night listening to all the days events, suddenly this tax cut vote had turned into democrats voting for a tax increase because the Republicans would never pass it. STOP! That isn’t what happened. The Democrats voted to extend the tax cuts for those making less than $250,000. Nothing more. Nothing less. Any spin is just that, spin.
If Republicans fail to get on board with extending tax cuts for 98% of the American people, then it is they who are going to have the problem. At least half of Congress are millionaires. It should be perfectly obvious that the Republicans are playing to their country club buddies who hand over the big checks. If the Republicans had the stones, they would jump on board with this or …they could have compromised and probably gotten the ceiling changed to $500,000 or even a million dollars. Or, they could go in after the first of the year and propose new legislation to include their sort of rich buddies.
Hopefully the middle class will not forget that they are going to be sold out for 30 pieces of silver. Where are the jobs that are supposed to be created? We have had the Bush tax cuts for a long time. Where are the jobs? The jobs excuse is what is chicken crap, Mr. Speaker. I see Congress circling the wagons for their rich cronies and spewing rhetoric.
If your taxes go up after January 1 and you are in the middle class, send a big thank you note with a chicken on it to the Republican Congress because that is who you can thank. And its time for the Democrats to stop letting the Republicans define who and what they are about. Democrats, stones time!!
Let’s see if this works. I’m posting from a virtual server through my MacBook. Nice try putting this on Republicans. Who wants to be the one to tell the ultra-left here that what actually happened is that the Democrats voted for tax-hikes for those who create jobs. Oh, and 9.8% Helluva Job, Obama! You ARE the man!
So tell me, Slowpoke, where are these jobs? Why haven’t they been created during the time that we have all had the tax cuts?
It sounds to me like you are being duped. Stop spending but lets make sure we give all the millionaires a tax break. Tax breaks are a form of spending.
Don’t make me laugh.
The tax cuts were one of Bush’s stimulus plans – way back in 2003 – if they were so good for the country, why were they made to expire in 2010, after he left office?
The real issue behind the curtain, is that we need tax reform – the marginal tax rate paid by most wealthy individuals is below that of the middle class – AMT was created, because back in the 60’s, there were people making over $200K a year, and paid NO tax. But, AMT was not inflation adjusted, so it is hitting the middle class Hard. But Congress has refused to address it, and “solves” the issue by using 1 year gimmicks. Another issue, is the amount of compensation paid to many individuals – CEO’s (many of them mediocre), should not be paid 10’s or 100’s of millions of dollars for running a company – some into the ground. Some say they should be tied to company performance, then the CEO’s got caught with backdating stock options.
Tax Reform – just another big topic that Congress is punting to the next Congress, and it will not be addressed, until there is a crisis.
For some reason I can’t explain, I can’t get into arguing political stuff lately…..it’s really strange. But I did want to thank you for articulating the fundamental misconception surrounding this issue. For some strange reason, everyone just takes it in stride that the government is completely entitled to the revenue they receive through taxes to do the thousands of things they have absolutely no business doing. Something to do with the concept of “baseline budgeting”, but I haven’t looked into it enough. The essence of the misconception goes like this: “the government MUST spend $x on silly stuff. If the government doesn’t get that money in taxes, it MUST borrow it.” Absolute BS. In the real world, if you don’t get the $, you can’t spend it, plain and simple. God do I wish I could make up stuff like the gub’ment does!
There is only one thing Obama can do to bring jobs back…resign in disgrace. Short of that, expect joblessness to remain high. No business in its right mind will do anything other than sit tight while liberal ideologues are in the Executive branch. It’s really that simple.
But what do I know? I still think the PFC that gave the secrets to Julian Sausage (or whatever Wikileaks dude’s name is) is the real villain, and I can’t figure out why everyone is concentrating so hard on the guy who didn’t actually steal the secrets…who didn’t actually break a trust. I just don’t follow it.
Oh, while I’m thinking about it. I agree with Pat that the real need is tax reform. I liked some of the things I heard from the debt commission. Get rid of 1000 deductions and loopholes and lower the rates dramatically. Simplification is always a good thing. Oh, and I never bash Republicans? The 8 (I think) Republican Senators who voted to keep earmarks. Out you go. Imhofe too.
@Slow, you mean Brian Manning? I agree that he is the real villan but Julian Sausage is just such an arrogant little bastard, I want to go after him too. Plus I hate rapists.
I agree with Pat also.
And I didn’t say that real well about spending. I need to go back and work on that one.
Anyone else wish the Senate would hit the fast forward button and get passed the doomed house bill votes and just hit the easy button and extend the Bush tax cuts?
Dec 15 is coming up a bit fast………..
WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans have blocked legislation allowing taxes to rise on upper income taxpayers on Jan. 1.
The vote Saturday was 53-36 – seven short of the 60 needed to advance the measure.
update from the WaPo.
Thanks bastards. Protect your own and your own worthless selves.
Screw the middle class to protect the rich Republican country club Congress and buddies.
Just what we need in a recession. 98% of Americans screwed to save 2%.
I feel hate brewing.
That felt good. It belongs 2 places.
How on earth can anyone justify freezing federal pay and not extending unemplopyment benefits and NOT extending the Bush tax cut for middle class Americans just to save the wealthiest 2% in this country.
Even Ben Stein said you can’t have some VA nurse emptying bed pans with frozen pay when the wealthiest 2% are being protected from having their taxes increase.
Marin, shame on you. Why would you want to sell the rest of us in the lower 98% out in favor of the rich?
Don’t even tell me jobs…that one is so full of holes. Where are the jobs? lets see the jobs? where have they been the past 2 years?
many of those in the uber-upper income class do not create jobs at all. They are the wizards that are shipping more and more jobs (and manufacturing) overseas. Do you think (pick your CEO) who are hiring overseas (India, China, Eastern Europe, etc) would employ less US based Employees if he had to pay more in taxes?? Hell No. In there quest for more pay, they are moving more and more off the US payrolls, and want immigrant workers to pick up the slack.
Shell lays off 1000, ceo gets 22% bump – http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20100316/royal-dutch-ceo039s-pay-jumps-22-1000-jobs-be-cut-id-10103931.html
I am all for cutting the fat, and improving operations, but not at the expense of the worker bees.
Remember what happened to Marie Antoinette.
I’m okay with the $250,000 line in the sand … though I’m not sure it’s especially important or that anyone in our Congress really has a plan for the future … so why did Webb vote against it?
And Moon, I’m no fan of Assange, he’s quite the anti-American jerk, but he’s no rapist as far as anyone knows. Supposedly he’s been accused with breaking a condom mid sex act and not informing the woman. It’s obviously political.
Many of those $250,000 “rich” people are nothing more than small businesses.
My problem with the whole fight is that they are still fighting. The GOP doesn’t know how to pick fights. LET the Democrats raise taxes. Great. Then, at least, the businesses finally know what they have to adapt to. And the conservatives get more votes in 2012. Btw, did you notices that some Democrats voted with the GOP? This fight just gives more ammo to the biased press, “Look at the evil Republicans that won’t save the tax cuts for the middle class. Its all their fault that the Congress won’t pass the bill. Never mind that the Democrats didn’t even write a bill before the elections. Or that THEY could have passed it at any time during the last year. “
Cargo, you go back and forth between being a TTP and a Republican so much I cannot keep track of your leanings.
The point is, the tax cuts should have been kept for 98% of the people. The other 2% could have been sorted out later. The $250k ceiling could have been raised to $500,000 or the actual tax table for those could have been adjusted. Or….there could have been huge tax incentives put in place for those creating jobs. Congress can do anything it wants.
You are damn straight the Republicans own this one. They have had the tax cuts for how many years? Where are the freaking jobs? It isn’t like anything is changing.
98% of the American people sold out for the wealthiest 2%. President Obama said exactly what he meant before he was elected. Now why is everyone surprised?
@Rick, just going by TV. Sweden is out to get him. He isn’t the first to be falsely accused of rape. Unfortunately, rape is just one of those things that doesn’t wash off. I believe it was rape. I can’t imagine it being consensual. Have you seen him???? Looks aren’t everything but he doesn’t even look well.
Shame on me, for what? Not wanting taxes to go up? The vote that went down in flames was political theatre. I think you will find many media outlets that’ll say the same thing. My point is we should’ve gone past the political theatre to getting the job done. We all know it’ll end up with an extension after the dems fold — let’s get there sooner rather than later.
Outside of that, Democrats will be on the hook for raising taxes during a recession. That’s how it’ll play out in the media and I think what gets under your skin. Not me, cause I’m in the 98% that’ll get hurt by this.
“It isn’t like anything is changing. ” Of couarse its changing. Businesses won’t hire because they don’t know what the business climate will be. Obama’s administration is raising taxes. Take a look at the new tax brackets this year. And don’t forget that new medical program that they will be paying for. Then, there’s the energy taxes that President Obama wants. Every ounce of gasoline will skyrocket. As will coal. And that will happen with inflated dollars. And this all started tanking right after the 2006 elections. What changed then…….
I think both parties are committing political theater right now. That’s how it works in DC. However, one thing I like is the brakes slamming on in the Senate. There is NOTHING that the lame duck congress needs to pass. Oh, except for the constitutionally REQUIRED budget. That little thing. Pelosi, et al have abrogated their collective responsibility to write up a budget so that they could campaign without admitting to increasing spending. They cowardly ignored the budget and are passing individual spending bills. I am a Tea Party Republican. The Tea Party is a movement, not an actual political party. Our job is to hold Congress’ feet to the fire. Its easiest with the GOP. Next, we start getting some traditional democrats to get active in the Tea Party and THEY can take back their party from the extreme left.
The tax cuts being eliminated for those making over 250k a year IS a tax increase! Not sure how its NOT a tax increase? Small business owners etc… fall into that category quite a bit, you raise taxed on them and the less employees they will hire and the more they will pass on that tax increase by charging more for the services in their businesses. The tax cuts should be permanent…cut spending…everything from defense to education.
Just because it would just increase taxes on people over 250k doesn’t change the fact that is is a tax increase..they are civilians/tax payers too
I think that the GOP, after they take over the House, should actually grow a collective pair and try to change the tax code drastically. I’ve been reading that the average “income” the government has gotten over the decades is about 19-20%. No matter what the code says. So lets make it a 19% flat income tax on all income over the poverty level or some other arbitrary level to protect the “poor.” No corporate tax, therefore removing a need for corp. money in politics. 5% capital gains tax. Deductions for state taxes and for charity. Stop collecting for Social Security by phasing it out. Pay off SS from the gen’l fund. Start a new “SS” fund by allowing voluntary membership and allowing members to buy Social Sec. bonds that have a return + inflation. Bonds that can be inherited. Medicare needs reform. Allow people to drop out if they wish and buy insurance. Medicaid needs to be paid fully by the federals. Welfare fully by the states.
Marin, I am in the 98% getting screwed by this too. The R’s voted extending the tax cuts down. You bet its theater. We need to extend the tax cuts for the lower 98%.
Why don’t we agree on this? You want it to include everyone. I want it to include the lower 98%. Work out something else for the rich people.
Cargo, it will be exactly the same brackets as under Clinton, from what I understand. And Congress is free to change that as part of a separate bill.
I am curious why everyone is so protective of the upper 2%. Why not worry about the 98% first and then worry about the 2%. This is exactly what Obama proposed in his campaign. There should be no surprises.
The tax cuts have been in effect a long time. Where are these jobs you all keep talking about? Nothing has changed…yet. Where are the jobs?
I don’t recall saying that the 2% folks won’t have a tax increase. They will unless they talk congress into doing something about it.
Or, hit the easy button and extend the current legislation for one year and allow the new Congress to fix everything.
The vote against these measures was bipartisan. 🙂 Republicans and Democrats…working together!
From WPost.
The first measure, which was proposed by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and would have extended the Bush-era tax cuts for income of $250,000 or less for families and $200,000 for individuals, failed by a 53 to 36 vote. Four Democrats — Sens. Russ Feingold (Wis.), Joe Manchin (W.Va.), Ben Nelson (Neb.) and Jim Webb (Va.) — as well as Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) joined Republicans in opposing the bill.
The second measure, which was sponsored by Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and would have extended the cuts for income under $1 million for families, failed by a 53 to 37 vote. Feingold and Lieberman opposed the measure, as did Democratic Sens. Dick Durbin (Ill.), Tom Harkin (Iowa) and Jay Rockefeller (W.Va.).
Ten Republican senators were not present for the votes; Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio) did not vote on the first measure but voted against the second.
It’s an easy sound bite to say that -R’s blocked these bills. A little more embarassing to find out D’s voted against em as well.
I acknowledge that Cargo is right that the entirety of the system should be fixed and correced but the reality is that in less than 2 weeks if the Bush tax cuts don’t pass the tax system will not be retooled in time and withholding instructions will be sent to companies with the new higher rates…Day 1 we’ll all be paying the higher taxes. So, better to get in a patch now and fix it correctly (under the new right of center Congress) than to try it now with the clock running out and not enough time to do it right.
Cargo, actually I agree with much, not all, of what you are saying in #22. I demand to keep my mortgage deduction though.
I agree in general with Cargo’s #22 but not necessarily with the specifics. Entitlements have to be reduced drastically — I would be willing to give up the mortgage deduction in return for reduced entitlements and simplified tax code.
I am also pleased with the Senate’s rejection of a tax increase for small business and families with income greater than $250K. The government should apply a uniform set of rates for all earners regardless of race, creed, social status, or net earnings. Redistribution of wealth not only is unfair, but also counter-productive in the long run.
I’m waiting to hear how mad everyone here is at Jim Webb over today’s votes. Let’s hear it!
Actually, I thought that getting rid of the Mortgage Deduction would be the thing that led to armed revolution, but after I heard the explanation, that yes, this deduction would go away, along with many many other deductions, but the Debt Commission members said that as a result, the tax rates would go down to somewhere around 8,10,15% Sounds like that would offset losing those deductions. I’m with Squid here, I think major tax reform is the answer here. Will it happen? Who knows.
Come on, Moon, tell me what a “bastard” Jim Webb is!
M-H, I think he is calling it B.S. because the vote was designed to show the Republicans up, making them look like they represent the wealthiest 2 percent while the Democrats represent the rest of America. They knew it could not pass the Senate, but they went and pushed for a vote anyway, just for show. B.S. is another word for voting for political gain rather than to actually make policy.
Oddly enough, the future Speaker will be doing exactly that for the next 2 years. I predict a slew of votes on legislation that have no chance of passing the Senate, and would be vetoed if they did. All of this will be geared toward drawing a distinction between the Republicans and the Democrats for 2012. I doubt he’ll call it B.S. in that case.
Slow, I don’t have a problem calling Jim Webb a bastard, if he is playing politics with taxes. I would like to hear his reason for doing so. There is not a single politician in this world who is exempt from the possibility of me calling them a bastard. Pick a day.
Why should he be any different? I can hate him as much as I do the Republican bastards that voted no. And next Nov., I can see who I hate the least, him or whatever Republican beat out Corey Stewart.
Ken, I have a sneaking suspicion you are right.
Slow, you mistake me for a Democrat. Indie here.
Kelly, I am not willing to forfit the 98% to protect the 2%. How much do we lose if we exclude them from Bush benefits? How much of the debt would that pay down?
I think we should reform the basic tax structure but that hasn’t happened yet. And I am an old and jaded woman. I have never ever seen a tax reform over my lifetime that didn’t screw me to the wall. Be careful what you wish for.
Bastard list can be found on page 2:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/04/AR2010120403643.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010120400323
From Blue Virginia Blog regarding Jim Webb’s fugue from sanity:
http://www.bluevirginia.us/diary/2495/we-should-measure-the-health-of-our-society-not-at-its-apex-but-at-its-base
Here is the link to Jim Webb’s contact form. To say some of us are disappointed is very much an understatement. He voted for a Republican filabuster. Does Webb drink?
http://webb.senate.gov/contact.cfm
I just think it is a matter of principle. This blog would be up in arms if Congress proposed to treat anyone differently due to race. Why should small business or high-earning families be treated differently?
Plus let’s face it: Don’t we all hope to be in that high-earning category in the not-too-distant future? I have some intellectual property in the pipeline that allows me to dream (perhaps not too realistically) about future earnings ….
Why don’t we just make a law that requires that all citizens be paid the same amount (say, 50K) and have the same profession (farming). That way, we can all be equal in a glorious worker’s paradise, standing shoulder to shoulder together in the fields picking rice and singing “we are the world.”
Then we can get back to hating each other on the basis of skin color and what Gods we pray to.
People are treated differently every day of the week, 24/7 because of the difference in their income. How about those income brackets. Are those equal? How about credit? Is that equal? Ever been turned down not because you don’t have good credit but because you don’t make enough money?
There is income disparity all the time. What would it take to put in a caveat for small business? A stroke of the pen. Business large and small are hording cash now.
I feel you are being duped. There is already a built in disparity, depending on income level and bracket. And lets face it, the more you have, the more you can manipulate your income. I totally understand why Congress wants to kill this one off. Self interest.
Some lying dog senator from Wyoming on Fox is now saying a number of Democrats voted against it….yea right…all 4 of them. Too bad one of them is ours. Oh well, we can punish him.
This is killing me. Where are the jobs these small business owners want to create? Who is going to ultimately pay to protect the wealthy? Sigh…probably the middle class.
Right now, lending is down because the banks are making more, SAFE, money by borrowing from the gov’t at 0% and buying bonds instead of risking it in a bad business cycle. Nobody knows what the tax structure will look like in the coming years. Every week produces ANOTHER bill at affects business. Why should any business NOT be hoarding cash when the gov’t wants to raise energy costs, health care costs, give the unions more political power, take more control of education, farming, and major industries, give amnesty to vast numbers of illegal aliens, and build vast new gov’t agencies.
There’s now a bill that authorizes the feds to control a school’s bake sales, all in the name of the children. How far do you want these busybodies to intrude into the lives of Americans?
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDefault/8ef5320729ce4298abefc1903704c7d5/Article_2010-12-03-US-Bake-Sales/id-5321294162324cd7b0928fbd842f85c2
That’s where the jobs are.
Cut taxes and regulations. Rein in the EPA, etc. Stop putting union thugs in political office. Stop allowing GE, Goldman Sachs, etc to produce policy.
The only way to do all of this is to reduce the size and scope of the government. A government that can do all things for you is tyrannical.
Go back to the Constitution. Follow it.
Again, businesses are not going to create new jobs as long as Obama is in office. He’s too radical and anti-business. It’s pesky that the destitute don’t hire anyone, isn’t it?
WRT the small business question:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/05/smallbusiness/1099_health_care_tax_change/
Section 9006 of the health care bill — just a few lines buried in the 2,409-page document — mandates that beginning in 2012 all companies will have to issue 1099 tax forms not just to contract workers but to any individual or corporation from which they buy more than $600 in goods or services in a tax year.
The stealth change radically alters the nature of 1099s and means businesses will have to issue millions of new tax documents each year.
…
“It’s a pretty heavy administrative burden,” particularly for small businesses without large in-house accounting staffs, says Bill Rys, tax counsel for the National Federation of Independent Businesses.
And then add to that the $250k democrat success tax… Government wants small business to fail and prop up only the Goldman Sach’s, GE’s, and Haliburton’s of the world.
Think of the 1099’s being sent to the power companies……..
Your power bill will go up to pay for those accountants.
I disagree that Obama is anti business and radical. Of course, some of the same people said that about Clinton.
Obama’s sin is that he is a Democrat. Therefore he must not be allowed to live.
Keep thinking the rich are going to bail you out. May I stand back and watch?
Keep thinking taxing the rich to give “free” stuff to the poor is going to fix all societal ills. May I stand back and watch?
Slow, I never said the rich would give free stuff to the poor. I don’t care about that. I am more concerned about the deficit.
Obviously the R’s and the TTP were just crying wolf–they apparently don’t care about the deficit.
It’s sure going well in California, DC, Detroit, and Chicago!
You seem to be making the fundamental mistake that less revenue = “we gotta borrow it”. No, we just don’t get to spend it.
Well, the Tea Party candidates haven’t yet taken office, so we can’t say much about what they are going to do.
And taxing more will NOT bring down the deficit as the current Congress is not planning to spend less.
The only way to bring down the deficit is to stop spending so much money. Period. Full Stop.
They can spend it faster than they can tax it.
I want more tax cuts and a freeze, a total freeze on all spending, until they start taking this debt crisis seriously. Other than salaries, stop anymore new spending. No new programs.
And if that doesn’t work, stop it all until we have a crisis that will result in the public waking up to the fact that Congress has stolen all of their freaking money, spent in drugs and hookers, and plan to borrow more to do the same. NONE of the recent spending has done one blasted thing to actually help the economy. All of the recent programs do nothing more than enhance gov’t control of industry and the power of the unions.
Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are lying and jobs are dying.