Unbelievable. Senator Colburn of Oklahoma still tries to block the 9/11 bill and provides misinformation.
From Huffington Post:
The Senate did hold a hearing, however, in June, though Coburn didn’t attend it, according to a Senate Democratic aide.
To win Republican support, Democrats have slashed $1.2 billion from the cost of the bill — by cutting out a victims compensation fund. And Democrats have backed off the attempt to close tax loopholes that benefit major corporations and instead are offering to pay for the bill, according to aides familiar with the negotiations, by setting a fee on federal government contractors with foreign countries that have not signed certain procurement agreements with the U.S and by extending a fee that already exists on certain H1B visas. The latter fee had unanimous support among Republicans and Democrats earlier this year.
Support for the measure had apparently been growing before Coburn’s announcement. New York Democratic Senators Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand, two of the bill’s sponsors, both claimed Monday that the bill finally had the votes to pass. That contention appeared to be supported by the recent comments of a some key Republicans who had encouraged a Senate détente in order to send the package through to the President.
On Tuesday, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani became the latest name on that list.
“This should not be seen as a Democratic or Republican issue. It shouldn’t even been seen as a fiscal issue. This is a matter of morality, it’s a matter of obligation,” Giuliani said on an appearance on a local Fox affiliate.
And last week, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said that “every Republican should vote for this bill.”
Current New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an independent, also urged the Senate to reach an agreement, saying Monday that the “time for excuses is over.”
Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, one of the bill’s sponsors, tells another story:
Just what is it going to take to get these people some help?
Shouldn’t NY be paying for this? Or, maybe ask for a federal loan to allocate in any way they want with P+I paid back to the Treasury?
If we used lets say…social security to pay for this bill would it still be an OK bill to pass?
Did those people just help New Yorkers?
Who is going to pay the loan back? The dead people?
No one is suggesting that social security be used to pay for it.
There are tariffs on visas being used to pay for it.
Will it be enough?
I’ll be the first to say I don’t know anything about this bill but the sniff test says that if -R’s aren’t supporting a 9/11 bill (that they probably support in spirit) that means something inside the bill is screwed up.
I don’t see a problem with that being debated then. I think the ultimate answer on this bill will be yes but the details need to be ironed out.
As a World Trade Center survivor who will benefit personally in no way from this bill, I support its expeditious enactment. On September 11, 2001, I was attending the annual meeting of the National Association for Business Economics at the World Trade Center Marriott. That hotel was located at the base of the Twin Towers and was destroyed when the Towers fell. I was at the breakfast meeting in the main ballroom on the ground floor of the hotel when the first attack occurred and was able to escape suffering only the loss of some luggage left in my room.
Standing across the street, I witnessed first-hand countless people falling to their deaths from the Towers, and first-responders rushing into the buildings without hesitation to help however they could. I don’t think anyone could ever witness any purer heroism than what I saw that day. We know now that many of these American heroes never came back out of the Towers, and many who survived suffer lifelong debilitating illnesses as a result of their sacrifices.
How could we delay financial support of medical services for those survivors for nearly ten years? How could anyone oppose this now? Keep in mind that the funds apply only to those who suffered in the aftermath of the attack. I’ve read the bill carefully and it does not apply to people who escaped relatively unscathed or just happened to be in the vicinity of the World Trade Center. It is not a handout bill for political supporters of its sponsors.
Rudy Giuliani is absolutely correct in saying,
“This should not be seen as a Democratic or Republican issue. It shouldn’t even been seen as a fiscal issue. This is a matter of morality; it’s a matter of obligation.”
Even though fiscal considerations are not paramount in considering the bill, it is paid for with three offsets that do not impact U.S. taxpayers, or the U.S. operations of any firm. In fact, the offsets even create disincentives to outsourcing American jobs.
First, the bill will generate $4.59 billion over ten years through a two percent excise fee imposed on foreign companies doing business with the U.S. Government that are located in countries that are not members of the Agreement on Government Procurement. This fee does not apply to American companies.
Second, the bill will generate $800 million over ten years by extending fees on H-1B and L-1 visas for many companies that use these visas to outsource American jobs.
Third, the bill will raise $1 billion over ten years by extending a travel promotion act fee on some travelers to the United States. It will expire in 2021.
I rarely discuss my experiences on 9-11 with anyone, much less in public. However, supporting this bill is an exception. Stop the debate and political wrangling now and pass the bill to provide medical help for true American heroes, paid for mainly by fees on those who ship American jobs overseas.
@marinm
Plenty of Republicans are supporting it.
At least you admit you are partisan. So Democrats screw up bills and Republicans don’t? have you ever read NCLB?
Bob, you have summed this bill up beautifully. Thank you for sharing your own personal experiences to support your opinion. I hope everyone gets to read it. We are glad you survived. So many didn’t.
MH, no I didn’t say that at all. I said I haven’t read all hundred pages of the bill to understand whats wrong with it. I also said that if people in spirit support the bill but won’t vote for it then SOMETHING is wrong with it. What is that something?
If it really is as you say — an increase in tarrifs on visa’s — should this not be a slam dunk? That it’s not tells us that SOMETHING is amiss.
Your answer was partisan where my concern was centrist.
As Bob pointed out.. the debate may be because of “Stop the debate and political wrangling now and pass the bill to provide medical help for true American heroes, paid for mainly by fees on those who ship American jobs overseas.”
No Marin, you said if R’s aren’t supporting the bill then….. Plenty of Repubicans are supporting it. There seem to be only a few villans. As a matter of fact, Peter King jumped all over Colborn.
Dont forget, I cant stand either party. However, I will admit that is tipping a bit.
Reread. You will see how it sounds.
The question still is; (to make clear on my prior question) if SOME -R’s aren’t supporting this legislation and in spirit they [or all] do then what’s the problem with the legislation? What’s in it that makes it un passable?
I think the answer is what Bob pointed out… that to fund it they’re looking at increasing taxes for business.
So, my next question is if this is truly needed and we need to take care of these NY first responders why not take a small portion away from everyone’s social security to fund this. Let’s say a 3% benefit cut. Would that give us the billions we’ll need?
Is a new corporate tax really the only alternative we have? The best Congress can do?
@Marin
Social security has been used as an ATM way too many times. Hands off social security. Social Security needs to be untouchable–unless of course, you want to have your contributions double at some time in the near future.
Business can jolly well pay if 1. they aren’t hiring Americans or 2. they are outsourcing jobs.
@ Marin
I hope it passed. I was out and haven’t been watching news.
Why on earth would you want to protect foreign businesses at the expense of senior citizens?
Why would you want to pay for this by raising Social Security taxes on Americans, or cutting Social Security benefits for Americans rather than imposing fees on foreign corporations that export American jobs?
I simply cannot have this conversation.
Fox is reporting an agreement may have been reached.
I could very well be wrong on this but I think Senator Colbern was the one that maintained that Saddam Hussein (sp?) was behind the Oklahoma City bombings.
@BS Perhaps Colburn escaped from McNamara’s band. (sorry, I couldn’t resist)
I never knew that is where that song came from.
I think I got a blip on my phone that the House and Senate measures passed.
The bill was modified to be 2B lower.
Thats ok. Just so it passed. Thanks for the update Marin.
O.K., so the bill passed. We have responded to the need to meet our moral obligations to these people. No argument on that score from here.
The emotional lashing out at Coburn, however, is most unfortunate. The guy was trying to tell you something. I think he is likely referring to a major fight which has been going on in New York City for almost six years. In 2004, Public Law 108-7 provided $1 billion in FEMA funds to New York City to set up a captive insurance company to help those First Responders and others with medical difficulties as a result of working at Ground Zero. Problem was that this company, the World Trade Center Captive Insurance Company (WTCCI), run by the city and under the control of Mayor Bloomberg, had turned into more of a legal defense fund for the city than a source of aid for the ailing workers. Rep Nadler of New York blew a gasket when he found at one point that the WTCCI had spent almost $104 million on lawyers to fight claims and paid out only about $321,000 in claims. Now you had Bloomberg and the CEO of WTCCI, who gets 350,000 per annum plus benefits, defending their operation against Nadler, Schumer, Clinton, and others. It has been like that old movie line: “Show me the money!!!” The First Responders themselves were screaming foul and eventually sued the city. A settlement for $575 million was reached (including cutting back payments to lawyers); but a New York judge threw it out and ordered a renegotiation. The last I have seen is that a new settlement of $712.5 million was worked out in June 2010 but that a deadline for First Responders agreement passed quietly in November (with 95% of plaintiffs needed for approval). Apparently the lawyers for the 8000 First Responder plaintiffs asked for more time to consider.
It has been six years since the FEMA money was transferred to New York, and the thing has still not been settled (unless it happened just recently, and I’ve missed it). No wonder those First Responders were on Jon Stewart’s show pleading for help. They got shafted for a long time up in New York by people up there manipulating the funds all of us gave to help them. And now we are sending another, bigger chunk of dough even before disposition of the first billion is finally settled? Somebody had better get a solid managerial grip on this thing. I do think that Coburn had every right to say: “WTF!!!” But, if that is the way you want the pols and bureaucrats to play around with your tax dollars…..
And I just absolutely love that Huff Post comment from Bloomberg. Looks to me like his New York bureaucratic show was part of the problem all along. When the First Responders complained publicly that they were being shorted on that $1 billion fund, Bloomberg shouted back that they “just didn’t know all the facts.” Whereas Charlie Schumer posited at one point that maybe the WTCCI should start showing some compassion and stop acting like a bottom-line obsessed corporation. But, I don’t recall hearing much of a rehash of all that during the most recent debates on the Hill. Just blame everything on those mean-spirited old Repub conservatives. Easy way out.
How about those conservative Republicans who jumped on Colburn over this one?
These people are sick. They can’t wait around for the political and corporate reindeer games. Colburn can say what he wants but he needs to learn to take the heat if he is going to stay in the kitchen. These are 2 separate and distinct funds.
What heat? From Huff Post? From Bloomberg, who is a faker par excellence in this thing.? From Dems who couldn’t manage to straighten out the WTCCI in their own backyard? Moon, I repeat: those are YOUR tax dollars and mine. Be emotional all you want on an issue, but I don’t think you ought to be willing to see any of those pols snooker around with what you worked so hard to earn. You can be emotional and you can insist on good and honest management of public funds at the same time. Both may be needed. This from someone who worked in an atmosphere where I had to account for every last penny or the green eyeshades would fry my ass and force me to cough up any negative difference from my own pocket before granting a resupply of cash. Separate and distinct, my eye. Mismanagement becomes endemic if someone doesn’t step in and do some slapping upside the head.
@Wolverine,from what I can tell, we are talking about apples and oranges–a program run by NYC and a newly passed federal program that guarantees of some relief for the people who did horrible work under horrible conditions and who caught horrible diseases. I understand there was some mismanagement in the past with the NYC plan. What does that have to do with the federal program?
Since I am ’emotional’ (and if that were really the case, you would see quite a different response, btw.) let’s put it another way. Are you just willing to tell those people tough crap? They had nothing to do with squandering money. They had nothing to do with the lies told about air quality. Many have no medical coverage and have lost jobs, are broke, are are being supported by their buddies who have problems of their own.
The past should have no bearing on this bill.
NOw, let’s get to the heat. Yesterday I heard some ‘heat’ out of several REpublicans. I know that Democrats are bad people who couldn’t possibly have and dog in this fight, including Kirsten Gillibrand who is fairly new to the Senate. But people like Peter King and Rudy Guilanni have been around a long time and they were less than pleased with the bearded Senator.
Among Sen. Coburn’s arguments against health care for 9/11 first responders (and Coburn is rocking that new beard he’s grown, by the way) was that there was insufficient time for debate and it was being crammed through without even going through committee. Sanja Gupta, filling in for Anderson Cooper, did a piece Tuesday night showing that in June the Health and Education Committee held a hearing on the bill, Sen. Coburn is on that committee, but Sen. Coburn skipped the hearing due to what a staffer called a “scheduling conflict.” Saying the bill skipped committee is one thing (bad on Congress), the Senator skipping the committee meeting where the bill was debated is another (bad on Coburn).
@Wolverine
I think this issue is less about facts and more about “doing something” even if that means “pass something”.
We’ve bailed out NY (again) because the govt’s answer to screwing up a govt program is to give it more money and try again.
marin, why is this just a new york issue? Some of these people came from all over the United States?
Maybe you should get mad over Brian Aitken.
@Moon-howler
It’s a NY issue that they squandered the money and had to ask the federales for more. But I guess we can have people in Iowa and West Virginia pay a little more tax than to audit what NY did with all the previous money.
Those people in Iowa and WV didn’t need a job anyways. Screw them.
You know, I am not even convinced some of that WTCCI isn’t spin. I have read several sides of that issue. Regardless, that fund was for more than just these first responders.
At this point, I am not even sure what you all are even saying.
If I understand you correctly, these people, these first responders and contractors who are ill and dying from breathing 9/11 poisons, should just be on their own because of what went down with the WTCCI. Do I understand your point of view?
No. I agree on principle that we should provide aid. To the extent that we do and how we fund it is my concern. That the city and state of NY is hopelessly useless at doing so just shows you how inept they are at as a state (Virginia should put them on the list for conquest and expansion to make into a colony…New Virginia has a nice ring to it to replace NYC).
Someone suggested using the VA to provide care..maybe that should’ve been explored.
In the end it doesn’t matter because the bill passed and the local taxpayers of anywhere outside of US pays the price.
I am not ready to indict NYC or NY state. I guess I dont like them being in the cross hairs. We don’t know what went on really.
These people cannot wait. I am glad the bill passed. It really had become a situation predicated on the ultra conservatives holding it up. Not everyone agrees with that line of thinking.
NO, The VA is not for civilians. These people are civilians. The VA is not an ATM any more than the Social Security system or VRS is. I am tired of everyone suggesting these other pools of money or institutions, like the VA, because they are too frigging politically cheap to pony up. No, we aren’t going fishing in someone else’s pond. There are debts and responsibilities that need to be taken care of. This is one of them.
Mark my words, the American people are going to get real sick of this spartan crap real fast. We don’t live in a third world country. The same scare tactics were being doomed and gloomed when I was a kid about money. The debt from WWII was huge, proportionally as high as it is now. We survived.
2 years of this crap and I can get the good bye towel out and start waving it. Then perhaps a return to normalcy.
Hrm. Above should say outside of NY pays the price. I think I might’ve been thinking ‘us’ at the time. 🙂
The *taxpayer* is not an ATM any more than the Social Security system or VRS is. I am tired of everyone suggesting these other pools of money or institutions, like the VA, because they are too frigging politically cheap to pony up.
Fixed that for you. The taxpayer well is drying up. If 9/11 is a priority – fine – fund it by cutting something else. Could be defense, could be SS, could be WIC, could be mine inspectors. Zero sum — what do we lose to put priority on something else?
WRT WW2.. Why not issue out 9/11 Bonds? Appeal to the charity and patriotism of the citizenry by asking them to buy bonds.
From NYC.gov:
About the WTC Captive Insurance Company
In the absence of sufficient commercially available insurance, the WTC Captive Insurance Company was formed in July 2004 to insure the City of New York and nearly 140 contractors, subcontractors and others it engaged against claims arising out of the debris removal process that began immediately after the collapse of the twin towers of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. The mission of the WTC Captive is to insure and defend in court, and thereby to protect, the City and the contractor and subcontractor policyholders as claims are processed, adjudicated and resolved.
Organized as a not-for-profit corporation under the laws of the State of New York and licensed by the New York State Insurance Department, the WTC Captive is governed by a five-member Board of Directors composed of current and former City officials plus a representative of the City’s lead contractors.
The WTC Captive was funded with just under $1 billion in federal funds provided through a grant from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)—part of the $20 billion of such funds requested by the Administration and authorized by Congress to help New York City and its people recover and rebuild after 9/11.
Funds set aside for other purposes are not to be raided by special interest groups. That is a fairly simple concept. The VA hospital is already overworked and understaffed. It is for those who served in the military. It isn’t a drive by clinic. Social security has been tapped so many times, it is in trouble. VRS was recently tapped. Now we hear it is in trouble after literally years as one of the most successful plans in the nation. NO. These funds are much more sacred than my pocket. Sometimes we all have to pony up. And we don’t always get to chose on what. No one asked my advice about Iraq. However, I sure am willing to pay my fair share to heal those who were there. If I get hit for $10-$15 more a month for the troops, or for the 9/11 victims, so be it.
We had better think about how these people are treated. The next time there is a horrible catastrophe or a war, there may come a time when people aren’t so willing to go rushing in, if they know they will get left high and dry.
The American people have shown the 9/11 first responders and contract workers that they are not left high and dry. We did the right thing. If we aren’t willing to take care of these people, then perhaps we don’t deserve to be Americans.
We have fewer taxes than most people in the world. I also would like to pay NO taxes. But that is not in the world of reality. The 9/11 Act is being paid for. Works for me.
Moon, in response to Rep. Nadler’s complaints concerning the seemingly lopsided spending patterns of the WTCCI and to the more than 9000 lawsuits by claimants against WTCCI, The Inspector General of Homeland Security submitted a 2008 report on the problem. A major conclusion of that report was that FEMA, which was the original Federal negotiator with NYC of the grant agreement and the operational rules pertaining thereto, failed to do a good job of monitoring how the grant was being used. The report called for a much tougher monitoring regimen by the FEMA grant offices.
That report seemed to me to be just about on the mark. The machinery for that grant began to move in 2002, and it took SIX YEARS just to get FEMA called on their failure to stay on top of the done deal. It was not a self-adjustment move by FEMA. It took Nadler and a wave of lawsuits to wake people up down there.
The federal government cannot conduct business by handing out billion dollar grants and then just slacking off about what happens subsequently to the taxpayers’ money. They do that, and we will back in the era of Boss Tweed. As a one-time member of the Federal government, it appears to me that the fault is in our bureaucracy and how that bureacracy conducts its oversight mission with regard to use of taxpayer funds by third parties. And the WTCCI thing is apparently still stalled, hung up in the courts again. In my opinion, if we do not do a better job of staying on top of this new and larger grant, those First Responders are going to find themselves right back in the complaint department pointing fingers with regard to the latest grant.
I am absolutely with you that the help for these people is needed, but I just do not think failures of oversight are acceptable. When we have seen such at charities like the Red Cross or United Way, we jump down their throats because no one seems to be taking optimum care of the donations we send in. How can we demand less of the government itself.? I saw one news report which said that the lawyers hired by WTCCI to investigate and fight off claims by the First Responders were collecting something like $550 per billable hour, most of it going into the pockets of the principals at major law firms in New York. You certainly have to have some mechanism to fight off fraudulent claims; but, by gosh, what Nadler found out was that, based on total cash ouflow, the lawyers were making almost five times what the claimants got. And it took six years for FEMA to discover that?!! It sure looks to me like what was supposed to be a means to help the First Responders actually turned into a legal defense mechanism for the protection of the New York City government.
We owe Nadler credit for kicking up the first storm. I, for one, am going to be watching very closely whichever Repubs take over the oversight responsibilites in the next Congress; and, if they are not as pissed off as Nadler was if they discover a repeat of the WTCCI, they will deserve to have their behinds punted down the field. In the Senate I am also counting on Coburn to follow through on this type of thing. He raised the subject and, in my opinion, rightly so. He’s got the ball.
From what I have read, and there seem to be quite a few missing links, part of that insurance fund was for defending claims. I am at the point where I don’t think we need to throw away the people because the plans were bad. I am about ready to throw up my hands. I can’t discuss it further. It has passed. Thank goodness. I can’t correct every wrong that has ever happened nor do I think we fail to move forward because of bad things in the past.
Coburn tried to block. He came forward with no solutions. That to me, makes him a villan. It is one thing to be skeptical. Where has he been the past 6 months? Did I read where he missed the meeting the had on this topic?
I only felt passionately about a few things this year. ONe was this bill. We owe them, as Americans. The other was the Dream Act, and I believe the state ought to keep its GD hands out of VRS and stop lying that it has a balanced budget. No it doesnt. All those in office now can go hither thither and yon and the thing can never be repaid. It disgusts me.
I will not change my mind on Coburn. He should have helped rather than hindered. If just one of these stupid politicians would ever work for the good of America rather than the good of their party, perhaps we might turn around some of these issues people hate.