Yesterday became one of those days that Americans dread. Something inside someone, some stranger, goes terribly out of wack and the end result is rampage and carnage and death. Such was the case yesterday where Congresswoman Gabby Giffords met with constituents at a Safeway in Tucson, right there in her district. By 10 am Arizona time, 6 people lay dead and the congresswoman was fighting for her life along with 6 other people. One of the dead was a federal judge. A 9 year old child was shot in the chest at point blank range.
It is all too easy to start analyzing and blaming. Human nature kicks in real quickly when events like this happen. All of us start trying to make sense out of something so tragically senseless.
According to moonhowlings poster Ken Anderson:
On the web, the TV, everywhere the political characters are playing the same game. Left wing jumps to connect this to GOP/TEA political tactics of the last 2 years. GOP/TEA jumps to cover their butts. Nobody knows the guy’s motivations, but that doesn’t matter. Everything is just another opportunity to take a shot at the “enemies” on the other side of the aisle.
Six people have lost their lives. Could we wait a day at least before we start to calculate the political fallout?
I think Ken Anderson is right. Let’s not start pointing fingers and casting blame on anyone other than the shooter. From all indications, the shooter was a seriously emotional disturbed individual and not part of any political movement. That fact, however, does not remove us from any responsibility as far as what we say and how we say it. Casting aspersions on our political opponents, Giffords’ opponents, or those we feel have made threats in the past simply proves nothing and is unproductive, especially on a blog.
Perhaps this is should be a time where we come together to try to resolve our differences rather than create an even wider chasm. It appears that is exactly what our elected officials in Congress are doing. All voting has been suspended for next week. Hopefully some peace and understanding will emerge from this tragedy.
Our congress men and women should be able to move about freely in a free society. When they are unable to do this, perhaps we are no longer a democracy.
Yeah he’s a real idiot, jerk which makes him a ‘lib’. I think he is just frustrated.
Not that the sheriff of a county that stretches 123 miles along the Mexican border is a softy on immigration. His 1,500-member department refers more illegal immigrants to the U.S. Border Patrol than any other law enforcement agency in Arizona.
Sponsored LinksAnd in 2009, he said it was wrong “to spend the millions and millions and millions of dollars that we do catering to illegals.” He said schools should ask about the immigration status of students.
He just wasn’t keen on having his deputies spend all their time asking people for their papers.
Post-shooting reflections, huh? Any thoughts on terminal ballistics, here? I’m thinking the guy must have had ball ammo, which tends to push tissue out of the way. For a bullet to pass through a skull, hitting the brain, and the victim live, had to be ball ammo that just passed through, lucky for her.
Hey, Sarah, hows that hatey, killy, reloady, crosshairsy thing working out for ya?”
Slow, the doctors I saw interviewed pretty much said she was lucky because of how the bullet when in and came out. Hard to think about luck when one is lying in a coma.
Oh dear God…….
Bottom feeders are here. I vote for removing that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Rush sounds like a big resounding f&ck you and the horse you rode in on.
http://www.therightscoop.com/wbc-to-picket-funerals-of-slain-az-victims
Phelps is going to demonstrate at the little girls’ funeral
@Rush
Probably not the most productive thing that could have been said. Please go read to topic post. While you didn’t cast blame, you are stepping up to the line.
@Emma, maybe he was following your lead?
In general–
Actually other polarizing events have happened in this country. I am trying to watch Gone with the Wind with my grandkids. I don’t want to have to baby sit the blog.
I hope that the Palin family has extra security now. So many posters throughout the blogosphere today are becoming completely unhinged in their rush to blame her. If anyone is to blame for ratcheting up the rhetoric, it is the Democratic Arizona sheriff shooting his mouth off before he even knows the facts of the shooter’s motives.
If only you could know!
Yep, we’re beyond the 24 hours. Now we’re calling out parties…… good grief. What a sad group.
In other parts of the cyber-world, they were doing it five minutes after the incident yesterday.
So does it make it right here? Anyone capable of independent thinking? Anyone think that blaming the Sheriff for the blogospher going nuts due to his irresponsible comments the same thing as blaming Palin for her crosshairs chart? Both utter nonsense.
I’m just waiting for it to be pointed out that Giffords is a Democrat and put some blame there.
This is just weak and stupid. Enjoy the trolling. I’ll just watch and be thankful.
Man, some of Jared’s former classmates and teachers are describing his behaviors now. Apparently everyone this guy ever met figured he’d lose it some day and go nuts with a gun. Anyone remember the dude from VA Tech? Everyone knew he was disturbed, too.
@juturna
Well, blaming ANYONE but the nut himself is a total waste.
Here Rush….for you:
** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
@Slowpoke Rodriguez yeah, I did that in comment #31. How utterly silly to imagine it could all just be HIS fault. Wonder if he eats Twinkies.
Cut the crap, both of you. No one here has said anything is anyone’s fault.
“Moran said Giffords explained that, unlike in his Northern Virginia district, “a substantial percentage” of her district was “anti-government and pro-gun” – a potentially dangerous mix.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/09/AR2011010901892_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2011010902040
Anti-government? Does he mean protest against a government that refuses to enforce its own laws and has left Arizona out to dry? Whatever happened to the “right of redress?” Now it’s considered “anti-government?” What an embarrassment Moran can sometimes be.
Recall radio host Joyce Kaufman (who was asked to be Chief of Staff for Rep. (R-FL) Allen West) firing up a south Florida Tea Party rally with “if ballots don’t work, bullets will.” All of the anonymous faux Patriots appear to be in full retreat now rather than reloading. It’s amusing, too, hearing the closet Patriots complain about Sheriff Dupnik when they fawn over Sheriff Joe Arpaio … that bag of wind has never passed up a chance to grab a mike and opine.
@Morris Davis They’re not in “retreat.” They have nothing to answer for. Some lunatic shot innocent people, and it is a terrible tragedy. I can’t wait to see your proof that it had anything to do with the Tea Party.
She was my kind of kid–bless her innocent little heart.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/09/AR2011010902186.html?hpid=artslot
All the unity must be just in Congress.
As tragic as this was, it is not uncommon. On average, about 30 people are murdered with a firearm every day in this country, but anyone who dares mention gun regulation is deemed unpatriotic and vilified as a wimp (thanks to the clout of the NRA and its ilk).
Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) told CNN he thinks Congress should use the U.S. Marshals Service to provide security for lawmakers in their districts and Rep. Boehner is holding a hearing Wednesday on security. That’s fine, but what about ordinary Americans? I recall the big hoopla not long ago when “Patriots” in Virginia got the “right” to carry firearms inside bars and restaurants. Why is it that Patriots can’t carry their guns to watch our elected representatives at work on the Hill but they can carry their guns to watch people work at Hooters? What makes Chaffetz and Boehner better than the 10,000 Americans that won’t get special protection and will get shot to death this year?
@Morris Davis How well did gun control work for DC?
The most productive conversation should be about how we remove mentally unstable people from society so they don’t harm people. Like Dr. Giovanni at tech, Ben McGahee at Pima Community also refused to teach Jerod. Even then, the school didn’t want to remove him.
Institutions can do very little about students who display bizarre unnerving behaviors.
We as Americans are really sitting ducks for the mentally unstable if they break bad like this kid just did or what Cho did. Actually, they seem similar.
I keep hearing on TV about kids falling through the cracks. They haven’t fallen through the cracks. Nothing can be done.
Mental health treatment and removal from society needs to be non punative and it needs to happen pro-actively rather than after a person had committed some heinous act. Going to a shopping mall shouldn’t be an encounter with a roulette wheel or with destiny.
Moe, look how that worked out for Senator Webb when he mistakenly brought a gun on the capital grounds.
I want unlimited guns–no gun control at all–when those 2nd amendment folks can assure me that only those who are mentally stable will be able to get their hands on guns. Until then, I want background checks regardless of where a person buys a gun-retail or private sales.
It is shameful that even the best healthcare plans demand higher copays for mental-health services and slim pickings for providers. And I don’t see anything in the HCR that even addresses that issue.
@Morris Davis
Debs, maybe you should tell your guys to chill out a little bit, at least initially. By running to the mikes and spouting talking points before the bodies are even cold you guys seem a little insensitive. It’s best if you give it a brief rest then come back hard with some faux (see what I did there?) righteous anger, Wellstone style. That would play better with the proletariat.
@Moon-howler
Cho went through a background check. So did this Laughner guy, since I’ve heard that he got the gun legally. Background checks are only good if there is info in there regarding the mentally ill. And no background check will stop a criminal from acquiring a weapon.
@Morris Davis
“I recall the big hoopla not long ago when “Patriots” in Virginia got the “right” to carry firearms inside bars and restaurants. Why is it that Patriots can’t carry their guns to watch our elected representatives at work on the Hill but they can carry their guns to watch people work at Hooters?”
Virginians ALWAYS had the right to carry guns in restaurants and bars. We just had to openly carry them. And nothing prevents me from carrying in the state capitol or city hall.
Since many of those touting “gun control” have advocated banning guns, yep. They are trying to violate my rights so they are unpatriotic. Gun control does not work. Ever. Unless your intention is to oppress the population, that is. Crime is up in England. Chicago, DC, Philadelphia, all gun control areas. Virginia is just across the river from DC….low crime. What? Crooks don’t have cars?
@Cargo, I rest my case, It can’t be done. Therefore we have to have some control on guns. Obviously something isn’t working. Not everyone should have access to a gun.
AMEN! Mental health issues are historically ignored until it’s too late.
All the gun laws in the world will not stop a crazy person from finding a gun and using it. And honestly, I’d rather the bad guys use guns than the next worse alternative.
Crazy people will always find a gun. However, I want to make them have to work a little harder for it than they do now.
OH!!! Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!! Moon wins the prize! This is about the only rational thought I’ve heard ANYONE make about this tragedy so far. The blaming is total BS, this is as far as it goes…the guy is an absolute nut, and this is as close as anyone is going to get to an observation about this. All the right vs. left crap is lack of ability to hit the nail with the hammer. Unfortunately, the attacks from the left must be answered sternly, like so many name-calling exercises practiced by three-year-olds. I take my hat off to you, Moon!
I’m serious, Moon, not only did you hit the nail on the head, all of your points are well-made. The closest I could get was bringing up the VA Tech nut. You did it with style, there!
The closing of facilities that housed the mentally unstable during the 60’s and 70’s provided the states with additional revenue to put toward other projects. The current consideration of privatizing ABC stores negatvely impacts an already struggeling mental health system in VA which has taken huges hits over the past few budget cycles.
Which is it? Fund it or not? Change it and fund it?
Sorry to inject some realism into the celebration.
Thanks Slow.
Calling it as I see it. I also think that all ‘sides’ need to tone it down. No one should talk about killing off opponents, literally or metaphorically–left/right or sideways.
Absolutely nothing has been learned or retained from Tech. There is proposed shut down of more facilities and mental health services. We need to make sure there is adequate coverage for those who are unstable in addition to making it easier to hold people for observation.
Hats off to Pima Community for actually doing something. We need to ask, would NOVA be that responsive? What laws would stand in the way?
@Juturna
Something else to think about is the notion that in the 70’s there were several court cases that involved patients rights because of past abuses. Some glaring horror stories like Snake Pit had been written decades before about horrible abuses in mental institutions.
Is there middle ground? Can we have institutions for people who would do harm to themselves or others without having snake pits out there? Much of the legislation and many of the court rulings were to do away with snake pits. My feeling is they went too far overboard.
Most of the homeless in DC are people who several decades ago would have been in mental institutions. Many of those people are so disturbed they won’t come in when its 10 degrees out.
Try getting someone committed. It’s very difficult. I might have mentioned my close encounter with a neighborhood incident or 2 back in the day. Truthfully, I would be uncomfortable relating it here.
“Is there middle ground? Can we have institutions for people who would do harm to themselves or others without having snake pits out there? Much of the legislation and many of the court rulings were to do away with snake pits. My feeling is they went too far overboard. ”
Sometimes all a “mentally unstable” person needs is someone to just sit and listen to them. Just knowing that there is one person who gives enough of a damn about you to sit down and listen forms a basic bond that could be the diffrence between controling yourself or losing control.
You don’t have to ask them to turn to Jesus.
You don’t have to write them a perscription for SOMA
You don’t have to tell them to better themselves through hard work.
just sit down and patiently listen to what they have to say and reserve your judgement until after they are done saying what they want.
I wonder how many people even tried this with Jarod? I don’t mean giving him “advice”, I mean listening.
Sometimes hearing yourself talk can trigger an awarness that what you say and think may be illogical, or at the very least the person listening to you can say how they feel about the data your giving them.
If no one bothers to listen, the only advice you get is from your own mind. You have more and more to say and get more and more desperate for some way to say it.
Give the insane a person to talk to, not a gun to talk through.
As for medications, they mask symptoms, but unresolved stress will not go away.
@Rod, I think we need to distinguish between emotional distress and true mental illness such as schizophrenia. Jerod apparently had hallucinations which are a distinguishing characteristic of full blown psychosis. Psychosis needs more than talk.
I do think what you have said about listening to people is important. I don’t mean to discredit the positive affects of a listening ear.
I think State control over this is better (although it might bring back driving people to the state line and dumping them…. but look at welfare. It could only be managed as an all or nothing situation. Many women with childrend attempted to work part and receive some benefits as a bridge but were told to get support they needed to be unemployed….
@Moon-howler
“Hats off to Pima Community for actually doing something”
Actually, it seems as if Pima County DIDN’T do anything. The shooter has made threats for years and they did nothing. See the next thread above this one.
MH,
Been on a “fast” from all things political, while enjoying some time with the NE family. Haven’t had an opportunity yet to read through the comments, but let me commend you on approaching this tragedy with restraint and commonsense. I have caught bits and pieces of the back-and-forth in the MSM and new media. Crazy is crazy, whether from the left or right. Obviously, this young man has mental issues, regardless of his political leanings. I, for one, am not going to jump into the finger-pointing game, and will only comment on this to confront an obvious falsehood. I am praying for the victims and thier families. I am also praying for our society. We can disagree all we want. Violence is only justified in immediate protection of one’s own life, or to remove the clear and present danger to the lives of others. While it is unclear that this is the case, the moment we resort to violence to settle our internal political differences, we have already lost.
@Steve, thank you and I totally agree with you about violence.
I am glad you had a great time with the family. I hope snow storms didn’t get you. We;come home!
“All [of] this stuff taking place in the Chambers the other day, when the Constitution was being read — all that stuff is uncalled for,” Rep. Clyburn (D-SC) told the Ed Schultz radio program.
Clyburn says there may be a “direct link” between Sharron Angle’s “Second Amendment remedies” comment and the reading of the Constitution with the attempted murder of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords over the weekend.
Reading the Constitution aloud in the House of Representatives is linked to the shooting…ok, then…..
And from former Sen. Bob Kerrey:
Tomorrow they were going to vote to repeal this health care bill — and it’s not going to go anywhere in the Senate — it’s one of the reasons that this guy was angry and pretty obvious that he is, at least from me, where I sit that he’s mentally ill and deeply troubled. I wouldn’t make too much of whatever his political views are.
Because they were voting in the House to repeal HCR…..apparently uselessly…. this guy shot people…..
And they call the Tea Party dangerous……
WTF? Has EVERY Liberal “PROFESSIONAL” politician lost what little brains they DO have?
Well, Congresswoman Giffords gave the folks in her room a “thumbs up” last night. If that isn’t super-encouraging, I don’t know what is. She’s doing well, and good for her!!!