Unless you are the lead buffalo, the scenery never changes.
Snow this weekend, anyone?
206 Thoughts to “Open Thread………………………………………….Friday, January 21”
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Blogroll
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- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
- Bearing Drift
- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
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- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
Beck has calmed down a lot. I guess he got told to chill. He is almost boring now. I think he is working for the Mormons.
Now I will give you that point….I’ve never met a Mormon who wasn’t, in the end, working on behalf of the church. I’m not saying that is right or wrong, but I have seen it quite a bit.
If memory serves, the more money one contributes, the faster the rise to power within the Mormon church organization.
http://hamptonroads.com/2011/01/allens-base-wrestles-health-care-reform
Slash government spending!! (But not the stuff that benefits me)
“Pearls of Wisdom”
Haven’t seen that gem brought out in a while. 🙂
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
Yea, that is just one of those ‘JUST IS’ kinda things. I really do think that is what Beck is now doing. I didn’t realize until recently that he was a recent convert. I thought he was a forever Mormon. I think he is actually an ex Catholic.
I don’t know. He ought to be able to give a boat load though.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/21/AR2011012105092.html
Stunning defeat of the teachers union in CA brought to us by….the ACLU. 🙂
I love it when evil consumes evil.
@Marin,
So you are saying that govt. should be making the decision about who stays and who goes rather than the school system? Is that not convenient big govt?
This case is proving to me that you folks don’t want big govt interference unless it suits your whims, which isn’t really libertarian or conservative. Its just selective.
Additionally, it keeps teachers with almost no experience at some of the most troubled schools. That decision is really nothing to cheer about. Actually, it sounds to me like a way to save money. Get the low hanging fruit without experience, put some lipstick on it and pretend it is a best educational practice. Oh horse puckey.
I think that a policy that keeps tenured teachers in place without looking at performance and simply gets rid of those junior in time is not a policy that helps education and ties the hands of the employer (school system).
I think it’s better to have good, qualified, proficient teachers in the position (regardless of time in the system) versus a teacher with 20+ years in the system and is not proficient at doing the job.
The ACLU did good here. 🙂
I notice that everyone seems to have taken Media Matters word that this is an accurate quote by Beck. They completely removed it from context. And, of course, no one bothered to remember Starry’s habit of drive-by out of context bomb throwing…..
Here’s the entire quote. http://rightwingnews.com/2011/01/transcript-of-glenn-becks-shoot-them-in-the-head-comments/
Here’s the relevant part. He’s WARNING the Democrats about their use of revolutionaries.
Tea parties believe in small government. We believe in returning to the principles of our Founding Fathers. We respect them. We revere them. Shoot me in the head before I stop talking about the Founders. Shoot me in the head if you try to change our government.
I will stand against you and so will millions of others. We believe in something. You in the media and most in Washington don’t. The radicals that you and Washington have co-opted and brought in wearing sheep’s clothing — change the pose. You will get the ends.
You’ve been using them? They believe in communism. They believe and have called for a revolution. You’re going to have to shoot them in the head. But warning, they may shoot you.
They are dangerous because they believe. Karl Marx is their George Washington. You will never change their mind. And if they feel you have lied to them — they’re revolutionaries. Nancy Pelosi, those are the people you should be worried about.
Here is my advice when you’re dealing with people who believe in something that strongly — you take them seriously. You listen to their words and you believe that they will follow up with what they say.
Didn’t we learn that lesson from Usama bin Laden? I heard his warning in 1998. I said on the air at the time, listen to him. We didn’t listen. We didn’t listen to the revolutionaries in Germany, the revolutionaries in Russia or Venezuela or Cuba — no, no, no. They all have one thing in common. They have all called for revolution.
They want to overthrow our entire system of government, and their words say it. Why won’t you believe it?
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
Isn’t that how EVERYBODY rises in power in EVERY power structure?
And do you notice that Starry thinks being the leader of the Teajahdis is a bad thing. That’s a feature, not a bug.
Actually, Erick Erickson of RedState could lay a good claim to that, if there WAS a leader.
Nancy Pelosi is not calling for violent revolution, I don’t care what Beck says. HE LIES.
@Starryflights
HAHAHAHA! That’s actually pretty funny.
I just realized something. Starry probably doesn’t realize WHY that statement was funny.
And you lack the intellectual capacity to recognize a charlatans and liar.
WaPost says G “macava” Allen is running for Senate again.
The entire quote was provided on Media Matters. Cargo, why is it that I should listen to something from Right Wing News and diss Media Matters? Wouldn’t that strike you as odd if I did that?
The Media matters was spot on. I actually remember his diatribe from his show. The words were coming out of Beck’s mouth.
Who is George Allen?
Marin, that is the worst case of cherry picking I have ever seen. A contract is made null and voice by the the courts and you cheer? The antichrist ACLU brings the law suit and you cheer?
Now lets look at what that ruling does. It takes every green, wet behind the ears teacher and allows some idiot administrator who has been kicked upstairs to elevate them to teacher of the year. So the system can kick out the veteran teacher who has years and years of skills under their belt in favor of some snot nose who needs to learn a thing or 2?
Hopefully you guys will be able to afford private school because the baby boomers are retiring in droves. They are sick of putting up with this kind of crap.
You would probably fire the Washington Post teacher of the year just to save a few bucks. Why? You devalue teachers and teaching. You think anyone can do the job. Keep thinking that. Within a few years you will be able to put that theory to the test. There will be a real shortage of teachers.
Notice how many of the younger ones are getting into serious trouble? Just check the news papers. That will be standard, if my predictions are right.
Having a teacher with 20 years of tenure doesn’t mean that teacher is any good. Having one just out of school also doesn’t mean they’re any good. So, let’s use a metric to determine who’s good and who isn’t (and I think that’s where the debate really should be focused…on building the metric) so that leadership can determine who stays and who goes.
I have no opinion on the WPost teacher of the year.
To your last para…That’s interesting. Kids getting into serious trouble as we’ve spent more today on education than at any point in our history…so, maybe we’re spending too much for the return we’re getting? Maybe we’re concentrating on too many things and need to return to basics.. It’s an interesting theory.
Why such heartburn over wanting to keep good teachers and get rid of bad ones? I just don’t understand – am I missing something?
No, it doesn’t guarantee that the teacher is better but statistically speaking, you have a lot better chance of quality instruction being delivered from a vet than from someone who is new kid on the block. That would be true of most professions.
And just what metric would you use? Test scores? Pardon me while I laugh. Do you think educators have been out there for all these years sniffing fairy dust?
As for how much is spent–you have spent more on a car than any time in history also. So what. Goods and services cost more now. We are also educating more kids than any other time in history. We also are educating huge numbers of special ed kids which pushes the price tag up exponentially as local systems struggle to meet unfunded mandates.
But don’t worry. You will have more money if you just fire the 10 year vet and hire a couple of greenies. They can always supplement their incomes selling drugs. That seems to be the job du jour of the unscrupulous if the local papers are to be believed.
The heartburn? I think its the real reason behind whats going on. Its all about money and don’t believe otherwise. That’s the heart burn. If you think that evaluations are done honestly when money is at stake, think again.
Yes, you are missing a big something! You are attempting to put a corporate model on an institution that doesn’t count widgets to come up with the best. In a sales job, if you sell the most and have the most return customers, and the highest profits, that makes you the winner.
If you think that is how it works in education, think again. There are so many ways rig things I can’t even begin to ennumerate.
Are there crappy teachers out there with experience? Yes. The secret is to get rid of them before they get tenure. Another idea would be to write the tenure rules so that ineffective people don’t remain on endless tenure.
“You are attempting to put a corporate model on an institution that doesn’t count widgets to come up with the best.”
The current tenure model is better suited for colleges and equally doesn’t fit. It seems to me that an assessment can be made of a teachers skill and ability by an impartial assessor and provide those results to management with a scoring.
“But don’t worry. You will have more money if you just fire the 10 year vet and hire a couple of greenies. They can always supplement their incomes selling drugs.”
I don’t think a teacher selling drugs is an appropriate side job for a teacher. Interesting tidbit – she graduated from my HS a year after me.
“Are there crappy teachers out there with experience? Yes. The secret is to get rid of them before they get tenure.”
Or eliminate tenure and have 1 year contracts that will only be renewed based on a positive evaluation.
“And just what metric would you use? Test scores? Pardon me while I laugh. ”
Agreed. I don’t think test scores in of themselves should be the primary metric. Nor do I think that pass/fail rate should be. I think they can have a weighted score in the total picture of the teachers performance but some kids aren’t very bright, some are disinterested, some perform as best as they can and only provide C or D work. My personal opinion is to look at the totality of the learning experience the teacher can provide and weight it against the low water mark that’s established.
I don’t see how providing public school teachers with tenure helps taxpayers. The current system also really only helps adults keep their jobs and isn’t vested in the students.
@Moon-howler
Since MediaMatters usually does take things out of context, I put up the other link. Apparently, THIS time, they put in the whole quote. On other sites, earlier, they had only posted the “offending” phrase.
So, there’s a problem with Beck warning the Democrats that when you attempt to use violent revolutionaries that they will end up having to shoot THEM in the head before they do the same to Democrats? Please name one non-violent marxist revolutionary.
As to why Starry’s comment was funny, he stated that Pelosi WASN’T calling for violent revolution, thereby stating that SHE may have been the communist revolutionary that Beck was talking about. If the shoe fits….
Starry, Beck was warning PELOSI and her side not to try and use marxist revolutionaries to advance their agenda….the fact that you missed that is also funny.
And apparently its you that lacks the intellectual capacity to recognize a charlatan and liar.
I mean, you ARE an Obama supporter……
@marin
Why? Why better for colleges?
Also, where are you going go find an impartial assessor? Should the teacher be evaluated once, twice, 10 times? How do you find an assessor who doesn’t work for the same hen house?
Why should the job of teaching help taxpayers? That isn’t the function of a teaching job…to help tax payers. I always thought it was to educate children.
No, don’t do away with tenure. Actually, there isn’t real ‘tenure’ in Virginia. Teachers who demonstrate effectiveness in the early part of their career should have some job security and should not have to jump through the same hoops as the newbies. If you do away with the ‘tenure’ those teachers will be the first to go in some areas when money gets tight. That is why there is tenure.
The real difference here is I see education as an investment in our future as a nation. An educated nation is one that supports itself, rather than being on the dole. Some people feel that isn’t their job, to pay for other people’s kids’ education. Those are the same people who would do away with medicare, social security and paved roads and other niceties of western civilizaton.
Cargo, this conversation is getting more and more bizarre. Beck is an A-hole. I can’t even have a serious discussion about him he is so far out in some field. I won’t even insult the right by making them claim him.
I would believe Media Matters just as quickly as I would believe Right Wing News. Actually, I might check a third source.
A professor needs a certain amount of academic freedom (to teach unpopular classes/material) that you don’t see at the K-12 level. So, tenure really isn’t needed. Tenure doesn’t help “educate” a student.
Well, it’ll be interesting that a lot of those impartial assessor’s may in fact be terminated teachers. 🙂
Depending on how the state sets it up the assessors could work for the county or the state as employees. They could also be contractors. A state could also elect to use teachers or administrators to do the function. Lot’s of ways this could be sliced.
I don’t agree with a teacher demonstrating effectiveness early on being immune with respect to job security in the later years. A teacher shouldn’t get the immunity token from the tribal council because they’ve been in for 10 years – instead on a yearly basis they should demonstrate proficiency and “earn” the job again for the next year.
“Why should the job of teaching help taxpayers?”
Because, those taxpayers are the ones providing the “investment in our future”. We want to make sure that we’re getting a good yield for that investment. And, if the current stock isn’t performing so well – let’s switch it around some and go with a new mix.
Actually, all teachers are evaluated on a schedule every place I have ever heard of. All teachers can be fired also. It is just more difficult to fire a veteran teacher and rightfully so.
You talk like there are just teachers hanging out waiting to be hired. Go out and find a math or science teacher with credentials. Try getting a speech therapist. You are applying a business model. It doesn’t work.
Be my guest. Go find some math, science, foreigh language, speech, special ed teachers in that new mix. Let me know how that works out for you. The lesser paying counties have a very difficult time even filing those positions.
Some of you all also have delusions of grandeur about your own importance in the mix. Some of our tax money goes for education. However, we are a long way from sitting at the interview table. There are lots of degrees of separation between me and a new hire. And the reality is, most people aren’t in the position to assess whether kids are learning or not. Most people read some study comparing the United States to kids in Korea or some other very homogenius society and because we aren’t kicking their butts in math, determine that no kid is learning anything anywhere.
When Korea starts educating the number of kids we do, from as many sub groups as we do, perhaps I will listen. Until then, not too impressed.
Additionally, all too often schools are held responsible because Little Johnny didn’t learn rather than holding Little Johnny accountable or …gasp…little Johnny’s parents who would rather be out smoking crack. Sorry. Don’t blame the teacher. My hat is off to any teacher who goes in and attempts to teach the kids of people who live that life style. And news flash, those kids aren’t just inner city kids. Drug abuse and trifling parents are all over the country.
I think that’s where we really disagree. I think that regardless of time in service that you should be able to terminate a teacher.
The amount of teachers being fired/laid off from larger cities (even FFX laid some off, right?) means that there is some availability of personnel in the field and that the supply/demand probably favors employers (schools).
I think there is a very real movement to terminate public employees job protections and large benefits packages.
I do agree with you on the personal accountability and responsibility angle but I think many people haven’t been taught that and instead depend on a govt handout.
There are plenty of people who live like trash who aren’t getting handouts. I am unkind about this segment of society after watching COPS. I hadn’t watched that show in a decade because I get such nasty feelings about those who live under rocks.
All employees should have some job protection. I don’t think it should be unlimited. I can really only speak to Virginia issues and remember, Virginia doesn’t really have unions. No binding artibration. By the same token, there should be avenues whereby any employee who is not performing to standard over time should be able to be removed. That can happen now.
Right now, the reason it doesn’t happen is because it requires some work from administrators who are just too lazy to do that paperwork and documentation required. Perhaps this would be a good area for some reform, rather than doing away with tenure. (or tenure like safety nets)
“Cargo, this conversation is getting more and more bizarre. Beck is an A-hole.”
NO! Beck is an ego-maniacal demagogue wannbe. His little “I Have a Dream” stunt at the Lincoln Memorial convinced me that he’s after more than ratings. Not because of the mass of drones there to worship, but because he acted like he’s some sort of prophet sent from God. Give a dork TV time and look what you get.
@Disgusted, can he be an A-hole and what you said? I don’t dispute that you are on to something with the prophet sent from God. Something isn’t right. I don’t hate Beck. I just think he is absurd.
I think all of you are reading WAY too much into Beck.
But, if you want to believe that he’s going to start his own religion or something, be my guest. I’ve just never heard someone that wants to be a political leader say things like, “If you take me as gospel, you’re crazy.” “Don’t take my word for it, go look things up yourself.” You’d be CRAZY to vote for me for office.” “I would make a terrible politician.” “I don’t want to be in charge of anything.”
Or words to that effect.
Here’s a nice religion just getting started…..
http://littlemissattila.com/?p=19261
I’m a Billovrightist. My followers and I have an altar upon which we place our longarms, and our pistols with their 30+-round magazines.
@Cargosquid reL Beck
Cult leaders always bear watching. They say all sorts of things. Beck is a chameleon. Why would he want to be a politician. He doesn[‘t need to be. That ego can go on a feeding frenzie without the expense.
USA Today editorial notes:
– In 2009, 41% of the babies born in the US were to unwed mothers
(up from 5% in 1960). That includes 73% of non-Hispanic blacks,
53% of Hispanics, and 29% of non-Hispanic whites.
– Last month, 23% of those who tried to enlist in the US military failed
the basic entrance exam.
The Federal debt isn’t the only number we have to worry about.
@Big Dog
Key to the baby stats: How old are the mothers. More and more people are chosing not to marry. There is a huge difference in a 16 year old mother and a 25 year old mother.
Fathers being in the picture can also not be diminished.
The military test is concerning. Was it the academic section or in general? Jarod was held back because of his drug use. What all is involved with the basic entrance exam? Who knows?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2011-01-25-editorial25_ST1_N.htm is the editorial Big Dog is talking about. Assuming the facts/numbers listed are correct:
Approximately three of every ten high school students fail to graduate on time with a diploma, according to the latest research cited by Education Week.
Even more alarming, a recent Education Trust report shows that among high school graduates, 23% seeking to enlist cannot pass the military’s basic exam for reading, math and problem-solving.
While there are other disqualifying factors for military service — such as being overweight or having a criminal record — a poor education could be the biggest obstacle of them all.
I don’t think the entrance requirements are extreme with the caveat that I wouldn’t meet height/weight standards now as I’m no longer a spring chicken. 😉 But, when I took the ASVAB in 94 I scored a 91 (or 93 I forget) and that was enough to get anything I wanted. I think the minimum score for the Army is 31. The test isn’t very hard and if you have a high school diploma you should at least “pass”.
I recall reading something about kids being so out of shape and fat that even if they could pass the ASVAB and are otherwise qualified they can’t pass the physical.
I think it’s interesting to hear what people think are the underlying causes for this problem. And, I hate to say it but maybe the social conservatives might be on to something. 🙁
FYI – The blog “Virginia Virtucon” reports that Corey Stewart informed the
PWC GOP committee last night that he will seek reelection to the
PWC BOCS Chairmanship in 2011.
Marinm, you highlight some major issues.
Having a large percentage of young Americans testing “fat and dumb” should
disturb all of us – liberals and conservatives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM
I would like to know the demographic on these 23% who can’t pass the basic army entrance. They are obviously not from PWC, Manassas, or even Virginia.
Is English a problem? Is it reading? Is it math? Let’s see some disaggregated data. That stat really is saying 1 out of 4.
Are there comparisons? For instance, what did these figures look like 10-15 years ago?
The graduation on time with a diploma is easier to explain. There are 2 conditions laid out there. On time. Failing English could do that. August graduation is not graduating on time. Also, not everyone, in particular some special ed kids, don’t graduate with a diploma.
Firedancer wrote about the on time graduation as it pertains to immigrant kids.
@big Dog,
Does that mean he is dropping plans for the Senate or that he will march forward with both ideas?
One thing voters need to ask Corey: Is he willing to pledge he will remain at his post all 4 years. If he won’t pledge, then that tells us that he is simply wanting to stay in the public limelight at our expense, until he can find an office to run for.
MH,
Of those failing, 16.4 percent are white, 29.1 percent are Hispanic and 38.7 percent are black.
Some sample questions:
The test includes many basic questions such as, “If 2 plus x equals 4, what is the value of x?”
Another sample question is this: “Dana receives $30 for her birthday and $15 for cleaning the garage. If she spends $16 on a CD, how much money does she have left? A. $29 B. $27 C. $24 or D. $12.”
Taken from another article:
The number of those failing the ASVAB becomes even more critical when considering the percentage of military recruits who can’t pass physical and other preliminary testing. According to published AP reports, Pentagon data shows that “ … 75 percent of those aged 17 to 24 don’t even qualify to take the test because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn’t graduate high school.”
Anybody live in Arlington? Whaddya think?
Illegal sign or whimsical paint job?
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/01/24/grassroots-tyranny-in-arlington-virginia/
I saw that on TV about a month ago. Apparently you can’t do a mural to boost a business and she owns a grooming center or something. Cute mural.
@marin, well, onle more question. Location wise, is one area heavily producing those numbers? For example, that sure doesn’t sound like Utah. Are Indians in those statistics?
I am going to be radical and suggest that these students need to study more. Funny, they probably told someone that they were going to go in the army so they needed need to do their homework. I don’t suppose it is any more horrifying that they failed the army tests than it is to learn they failed their school tests.
I don’t know why young people are so trifling. And while we are on the subject, it seems that those who aren’t also get slammed with the golden brick. It seems that Delegate Jackson Miller wants to prevent any child of an illegal alien from entering any state supported college. The US Congress refuses to pass the Dream Act where good students could be admitted to the military or to college.
It sounds like the USA can’t really afford to be turning up its nose at the children of illegal aliens. Their own sure are coming up lacking in great numbers.
Is there a male to female ratio in all those stats?