149 Thoughts to “Open Thread……………………………………..January 31, 2011”

  1. Judge Vinson is an activist judge. I guess they will volley it around. Does it disturb anyone that all these critical cases are being decided by 1 judge rather than a panel of judges?

  2. marinm

    MH,

    I think I’d do my darndest to secure other employment. Employment for me really isn’t too much of an issue because of my skillset but a person not in my position may have a tough time with COBRA payments.

    3 month waiting period? Some jobs have HC that starts on Day 1. I think the longest I’ve had to wait for HC to kick in was 30 days.

    No doubt things can change and Lafayette is right… That’s another reason financial planners tell people to sock away 6 months worth of income. A high deductable health plan would also help in those types of situations.

    AETNA just quoted me a teaser rate of $162 for member/spouse high deductable coverage. That’s not too bad. In-network deductable of $5000 individual/$10000 family. Combine that with an HSA and you’ll be good if something REALLY bad happens to you. Just don’t short the insurance company by $0.02 and get dropped. 🙁

    I don’t think anyone is under any illusion that Vinson (btw he just made my XMAS card list) will be the last word for this.. I’m sure this is headed to the Supremes and I see a 5-4 on this one in our favor. 🙂 Please for the love of God watch over those 5 Justices and keep them alive!

  3. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    @Moon-howler
    Backwards, of course. Judge Vinson is no activist Judge. Anyone with the ability to read the decision can see for themselves the entire process Vinson laid out, which is beyond reproach. In fact, all liberal judges are activists, they often openly admit it, as Sotomayor did in a speech.

  4. I guess there are many people who would say Earl Warren was not an activist judge. It is all in the eyes of the beholder.

    The fact that most decisions are 5-4 is troubling. Important decisions should not hang on the opinion on one person.

    Marin, you have plans. That’s good. But things can always change. Things as we knew it could flip flop. I have learned over the years to always keep that in mind.

    I have mixed feelings about all this, btw. I do think Vinson is an activist judge. Most judges are nowadays.

  5. George S. Harris

    In today’s local fishwrap–The “News and Messenger”, Keith Walker reports that my favorite delegate Scott Lingamfelter is preparing a bill to do away with future red light cameras. In typical Lingamfelter “Ready, Fire, Aim” fashion, he cites a 2007 study that points to more rear end crashes due to the installation of red light cameras. And today (2-1-2011) the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety issues a report that red light cameras have saved at least 159 lives in fourteen of the largest cities during the period 2004-2008. Way to go Scott–keep up the good work on behalf of the citizens of the Commonwealth.

  6. Morris Davis

    When someone writes that a judge’s decision is beyond reproach or well-reasoned amazingly it’s a decision with which the writer agrees.  Likewise, an activist judge is one the writer doesn’t like.  Activist normally means overturning years of precedence or the will of the people as expressed through the legislative branch.  By the normal definition, the recent S.Ct. 1st and 2nd amendment decisions could be said to reflect an activist wing of the Court.  As there is now a 2-2 split in the district courts it is inevitable this will reach the S.Ct., probably in 2012.  I think the 5-4 prediction is correct and will be along party lines.  (None of the Justices are among the 1 in 6 average Americans who lack health coverage, so they’ll be okay).  The real question to me is whether they’ll disregard the severability doctrine.

  7. Pat.Herve

    How do you get around the pre-existing conditions clause, while protecting the insurance company (without requiring everyone to have insurance)?

    I have a buddy who lost his insurance, through no fault of his own (employer did not pay premiums), and he is cashing in his 401k to pay bills, because his new plan will not cover the treatments – and he had insurance for 50 years – he only had a lapse for a few months.

  8. Cato the Elder

    Morris Davis :
    The real question to me is whether they’ll disregard the severability doctrine.

    Didn’t Roberts himself remove the need for severability in the Sarbanes-Oxley ruling?

  9. Totally amazing. And these are things people simply don’t think about. Snap of one’s fingers. Gone. @Pat And your buddy’s 401k probably took a huge hit back in 2008. What will he live on during his retirement?

    @Moe, what is the severability doctrine, in layman’s terms?

  10. @George

    I wonder what he would say about demonstrations right up along Sudley Road where people continue to rear end the car in front of them because they glance over to see why people are standing on the side of the road with signs?

    How does a red light camera cause accidents again?

  11. Lafayette

    See where the felons live in your neighborhood. Just type in a street name at the very top of the form & your whole neighborhood map will pop up. Every place you see a red balloon or thumb tack is the home of a convicted felon.
    http://www.felonspy.com/search.html
    Moon, I put in my block and it was quite interesting to see the felons right around the corner from us.

    1. You are surrounded by senior perverts, Lafayette. Geez.

  12. Lafayette

    Yeah, tell me about it. I’ve known of one for decades REAL close by, but has never been convicted. They also like to piss in their next door neighbor’s front yard. Oh, and that’s when they getting mail while they were out of town. Niiice!

  13. @Chris

    That is whose name I expected to see. What an old goat.

  14. Morris Davis

    Cato – You’re right about the Sarbanes-Oxley decision. Roberts wrote the majority opinion in the 5-4 decision (he was joined by Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Kennedy – I suspect they’ll be the same 5 on the health care reform decision). On the issue of whether to invalidate the entire law or only the offending part (which had allowed the SEC to appoint the members of the accounting board or PCAOB), Roberts said the Court only strikes down the entire law if “the remaining provisions are not ‘incapable of functioning independently.’” http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-861.pdf The Sarbanes-Oxley case was entitled Free Enterprise Fund v. Public Company Accounting Oversight Board. Guess which brothers are affiliated with the Free Enterprise Fund? Hint – They also were affiliated with the organizations where a Justice’s wife was a senior member.

  15. @Lafayette
    Interesting. Two sexual felons are shown residing at the nearby shopping mall. Wonderful. I wonder where they really live? And there are none listed at either of the high density apt. complexes…..where I know that some live…as per the sheriff that lives across from me.

    I wonder where that map gets its info….

  16. Moe, let’s just put you on the Supreme Court.

  17. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    I got rear ended at that place on Sudley–had a brand new car and “BLAM” it wasn’t brand new any more.

    What happens apparently is that people suddenly remember there is a camera as they are about to run through a light and they jam on their brakes. Poor schlump behind was expecting the other person to go through the light! So who probably gets cited? Probably both–A for “running” the light and B for following too close!

  18. George S. Harris

    Have the Teapublicans REALLY said that they don’t like besides the mandatory purchase requirement? I still think something like the FEHB Program could have worked with subsidies for those below a certain income level. But then what do you do about the folks who can afford insurance but forego it for a new boat, motorcycle, or some sort of bling? Do they get a free ride at taxpayer expense? There seems to be no easy answer except maybe to do something like they do with Parts B and D of Medicare. If you don’t take them out when you first become eligible and you decide to do so later, you pay a fine–in case of Part B–its 10% of the monthly premium for every full year you didn’t take it. For Part D, it 1% per month of the average national premium for every month you didn’t take it. Both stay with you until you cash in your chips or drop the coverage. In the case of Part D, the amount can go up each year if the average national premium goes up.

    I would propose a stiff penalty–something like 20% of the monthly premium for each year you forsake coverage when you can afford it but don’t take it. Or maybe 2% per month for each month you don’t take it. But no health insurance “police”–you do or you don’t. If you don’t you would be required to acknowledge that you know and understand the rules and that would be filed with the Social Security Administration or with CMS or whoever is going to monitor coverage. I know–George Orwell, here we come.

  19. Morris Davis

    Moon – I didn’t attend Yale or Harvard and I’m not Catholic or Jewish, so I don’t fit the demographic (among a host of other reasons that make thousands of others better qualified). The only robe you’ll see me in is terrycloth.

  20. Elena

    Pat.Herve :How do you get around the pre-existing conditions clause, while protecting the insurance company (without requiring everyone to have insurance)?
    I have a buddy who lost his insurance, through no fault of his own (employer did not pay premiums), and he is cashing in his 401k to pay bills, because his new plan will not cover the treatments – and he had insurance for 50 years – he only had a lapse for a few months.

    THIS story contributes to rising health care costs. Thank you for sharing. what happens when he uses his savings to stay healthy? What happens to people who don’t have savings and lose their health care?

    Well, they don’t want to die, so, like all of us, self preservation kicks in and maybe their health care bills just end up going upaid, or they are forced to declare bankruptcy. Once again, for those who don’t believe the average person doesn’t want to die, people will seek out health care and in a civil society, you can’t just let them die on the streets!

  21. George S. Harris

    Some 67 years ago, President Dwight Eisenhower spoke about the Domino Theory. Maybe, like George Orwell, he was a few years off. First Tunisia, then Egypt and now Jordan: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/01/jordan-king-abdullah-prime-minister

    Can Syria or Libya or even Saudi Arabia be far behind? Am sure the House of Saud is looking over its collective shoulder.

  22. George S. Harris

    Pat.Herve :How do you get around the pre-existing conditions clause, while protecting the insurance company (without requiring everyone to have insurance)?
    I have a buddy who lost his insurance, through no fault of his own (employer did not pay premiums), and he is cashing in his 401k to pay bills, because his new plan will not cover the treatments – and he had insurance for 50 years – he only had a lapse for a few months.

    I think you have encountered the Gordian Knot Pat. I am reasonably certain that this is why the mandatory purchase clause was put in. People who can afford insurance won’t buy it in order to do/buy other “stuff”, until they get sick and THEN they want to be covered. There is no easy answer or we would have had one a long time ago. But I would also say that the medical profession–which includes anyone who has anything to do with the provision of health care–has not exactly been behind any kind of universal health care, single payer, etc. because they don’t make near as much $$$$$.

    @Elena–we don’t let them die on the streets–they go to the ERs all over the country–they can’t be turned away–and we who are capable pay in increased health care delivery costs as well as increased health coverage premiums and taxes to support Medicaid.

  23. marinm

    George, speaking of individual mandate. 😉

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/south-dakota-individual-mandate-guns_n_816772.html

    Five South Dakota lawmakers have introduced legislation that would require any adult 21 or older to buy a firearm “sufficient to provide for their ordinary self-defense.”

    :chuckle:

  24. George S. Harris

    @marinm
    God, where does it end?

  25. George S. Harris

    Aurora Borealis–the Creator’s laser show! Thanks for putting this up Moon.

  26. Steve Thomas

    Here’s some of what I don’t like about Obamacare:Beyond the individual mandate, I also oppose the extra tax on medical devices, like pacemakers, hearing aids, artificial hearts, stints, etc. etc. So I decide to purchase my own hearing aids, instead of fighting with the VA to get them to pay for them. I want the current technology, not the older analog stuff they provide to the vets. So I’m looking at $5-6K for the median set, not the top-of-the-line. My private insurance doesn’t pay for them. So, on top of the normal Virginia sales tax, I am taxed an additional 2.3%, or $125.00, so my total taxburden on this purchase of a medically necessary device is now close to $400, on a $5500 purchase.

    Next, all these changes that are supposed to make my medical costs go down, that are applicable to my FSA. I have the FSA to cover copays, OTC medications, etc. Obamacare regulations now require me to get a perscription for any OTC medications I purchase. I have to go see my doctor, pay a $10.00 copay, just to have him write me a perscription for Nyquil, so I can use my FSA to pay for it?. That $10.00 bottle of Nyquil now doubled in cost to me, and my insurance company gets billed for a visit to the doctor. These thinks aren’t happening in 2014….they are in effect right now. Since I happen to agree with the two decisions that found the law unconstitional in-part or in-whole, I consider the continuing taxes and fees to be illegal.

    Yep, this is really going to drive down costs.

  27. @Steve, tell me what FSA means, por favor.

    I am offended that the vets have to use old analog hearing aids. They should have new and modern. Why are medical devices being taxed and when did THAT start?

    Will all OTC drugs go away if health care stands?

    These are things that need fixing, regardless of what kind of medical coverage is finally agreed upon.

    Absurd rules existed before Obama ever came in to office. My mother needed a power chair. It was critical for her to have it to remain independent. She was rejected by medicare because my brother had bought a push wheel chair for her. When he went to pay for it, the medical supply folks said medicare covered it and they would bill. (they handled mother’s other needs, oxygen etc. ) That is why she was rejected for the power chair. They had already paid for a chair, even though someone else had to push it. ARGGHHHH. Mother even had statements from doctors, physical therapists and respiratory therapists certifying that my mother was as critical as one gets in the ‘needs a power chair’ dept. We told her just to purchanse one out of pocket. It was critical to her being able to live alone.

  28. Elena

    Exactly George, you made my point better than I could. We don’t let them die, instead, people use the most expensive form of healthcare………………the ER.

  29. marinm

    If you ask most people what they think of HMOs they’ll respond back with urine and vinegar. So, I don’t see how HCR which will really turn the HC industry into a federalized HMO will make things “better”. On the lower margin it will – people without HC will have some. But, to do that we have to take from those that are happy with the current system (let’s say employed full time workers at a company where you don’t wear a name tag) and give them less to give the lower margin access (or more).

    I don’t get that.

    +1 on the changes to HSA/FSA. I put 4K into mine this year on the assumption that we’d really be spending a LOT on healthcare this year (I was right). I’m angry that next year my max contribution is only 2K. That’s 2K un-shielded from taxes and this year I can’t goto Rite Aid or CVS and stock up on our year end supplies of bandages, cough syrup, etc. Just another tax on the middle class to pay for a discetionary program.

    I actually shocked our specialist this Saturday. He asked us if we wanted to do a genetic test for Downs on the twins. We declined. He asked us why and I said, “Well, we’ve already been genetically tested for our IVF and regardless of the result on his test we’re going to keep them so why not save the insurance company some money?” He smirked a bit but probably wasn’t happy that I wouldn’t authorize a $1000 test that would’ve cost me “nothing” except higher premiums for my fellow coworkers next year.

    My wife’s vision has gotten worse (I guess uncommon side effect in pregnancy) so I’m buying her a second set (she keeps them in the car to drive) so she doesn’t walk into walls with our HSA as insurance has already paid for her glasses for the year. I love HSA/FSA’s. 🙂

    MH, hope she got the chair.

  30. Steve Thomas

    Moon,

    I opted not to go the VA route because it would have originally taken 6-8 months to get my first set of hearing aids, and I get almost no choice in what aids I would be given. Old analog technology, that I would have to go to the VA to get an audiologist to adjust as my perscription changes.

    a FSA is a “Flexible Spending Account”, whereby I can have a percentage of my income deducted pre-tax. I can only spend this money on approved medical expenses, and it is “use-or-lose”. If I fail to spend it all in any given year, the Fed takes the remainder. Prior to January 1st, I could go to CVS, pick up my OTC medicines, and use a flex-spend debit card to pay. In the rare instance that something I was buying wasn’t covered under the plan (like icy-hot) the charge would be denied. It was a self governing system. But now, I have to see my GP to get a perscription for advil, before I can use flex-spending to pay for it. They have to send a perscription to CVS, and it has to be on file. I have to see the pharmacist each and every time I buy advil, for the “privilage” of using my flexible-spending plan. But since the Fed has made is a “Pain in the Tookas” to do so, there’s a good chance I won’t spend it all in a given year…and they get to sieze it. Oh, did I mention I have to get a perscription of hearing aid batteries now too?

    The new taxes on medical devices went into effect 1 January. If it is a “medical device”, ie. perscribed by a doctor, it is taxed. Prosthetics, Hearing Aids, implantaable defibrulators, you name it, oh, and that powerchair your mother needed too.

  31. Raymond Beverage

    A little more on medical devices, straight from our friends at the IRS (Notice 2010-89). The Section referred to below is from the HCR Act. The IRS found there is a conflict between as defined one way in the act for taxing, then addresses what is tax-exempt. Still being sorted out as the IRS has not issued a Ruling.

    The 2.3% excise tax will be applied to all taxable sales of medical devices after December 31, 2012.

    Section 4191(b)(1) defines a taxable medical device as an instrument, apparatus, implement, machine, contrivance, implant, in vitro reagent, or other similar or related article, including any component, part or accessory, which is:

    1.Recognized in the official National Formulary, or the United States Pharmacopeia, or any supplement to them,

    2.Intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, or

    3.Intended to affect the structure or any function of the body, and which does not achieve its primary intended purposes through chemical action within or on the body and which is not dependent upon being metabolized for the achievement of its primary intended purposes.

    According to Section 4191(b)(2), a taxable medical device does not include eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids, or any other medical device determined by the Secretary to be of a type which is generally purchased by the general public at retail for individual use. In addition, medical devices are tax-exempt if they are not sold to an end user (sold to a manufacturer for further development or sold for export).

  32. Raymond Beverage

    And a little bit on the “wonderful” Veterans Adminstration:

    That bunch is so brillant, the HCR tax on devices includes prosthetics & orthotic devices. So the 22million Veterans are not exempt with around 1/3rd requiring them – and the V.A. let it stand. Orrin Hatch tried to get an amendment through for Veterans (SA 3644), but that was voted down.

    So a Veteran who has to rely on obtaining the device locally, and hope the VA form of TRICARE will pay for it, is nailed. I travel to Martinsburg VAMedCen for my prosthesis and if I had to pay for it, would definitely cost. Still waiting though for the this tax to get bundled into the copay – figure that will be the next stealth attack.

    But thank you, Veterans Administration, for taking care of me as I age.

  33. Wolverine

    Moon —- I just knew Moe’s response would be #22. He has an article about that very subject on the internet — sort of makes SCOTUS look like a private preserve for just three law schools, Columbia, Harvard, and Yale. Good article too. Michigan, Duke, Stanford, all the rest seem to be off the eligibility list lately. We live in a strange world these days, almost like some sort of privileged academic aristocracy.

  34. Steve Thomas

    Ray,

    I have a new set of hearing aids on “lay-away”, and the total bill did include the excise tax.

  35. Thanks for clearing up those acronyms. I never know what you all are talking about.

    It seems to me it is cheaper just to not to FSA.

    @Steve.

    And I wouldn’t like that either. The plan needs some tweaking for sure.

  36. @marin, why do something if you would not alter your course. It seems like an unnecessary test under those circumstances.

    The one thing I will say without putting value on it- People often say it isn’t anyone else’s business what they chose to do about genetic defects. Not to sound like my friend marin, but some genetic defects end up costing the taxpayers quite a bit.

    I think that it is one of those necessary things that civilized societies do: schooling and training etc. Where do you stand since you think the taxpayer rules supreme?

  37. marinm

    Para 1: Agreed and that’s why I saw no sense in taking $1000 out of my insurance companies hands and giving it to a doctor. I’d rather save that money and HOPE that my fellow coworkers would do the same so we can all enjoy lower premiums. It’s doing my part. Like putting on a sweater ala Jimmy Carter. 😉

    Para 2: That’s an arguement that I have with HCR. Because if we DO the math then eugenics can become a govt policy. Women without means and with a good chance to produce drains on the HCR or social safety net may be pushed to abort while those that will produce tax paying citizens will be encouraged to have children. Women will lose control over their own reproductive systems because Congress can claim those reproductive organs under the Commerce Clause. Think I’m crazy? Listen to the arguements saying that Congress CAN regulate HCR… leaves open the possibility of Congress having unlimited powers. I’ll coin the phrase right now (patent pending) Birth Panels.

    Para 3: Interesting question. If taxpayers are on the hook to pay for HCR then they could have dominion over everyone and everything. Think about what I’m saying. Almost unlimited power. I forsee a fascist state where people are licensed to get pregnant, only those of means OR with the potential to have means can be “allowed” to reproduce… Unthinkable complexity and evil. Don’t get me started. 🙂

  38. Lafayette

    Participating in telephone Town Hall with Delegate Jackson Miller. I’m so glad I answered. I ignored the 202 area code last year.

  39. Cindy B

    I listened in, too, Lafayette. I liked his answer to the man frustrated by his HOA board — get involved, and get his neighbors involved. There’s a PWC Neighborhood Conference the last Saturday of Feb., and one of the seminars is “Difficult Board Meetings.”
    More info at http://www.pwcgov.org/NeighborhoodConference

  40. I just thought that you guys might enjoy this:
    http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/ffn/index.php?date=2008-11-05

    Superman – Illegal alien?

  41. marin, you sure took reproductive rights to a new low. That is totally paranoid. Sorry.

    Its probably a discussion best not had.

  42. @Cargo, too funny!! Actually, Superman is an illegal alien. snicker.

    Speaking of illegal aliens–the Miller townhall meeting last night was mainly about illegal aliens. There were some rather inaccurate concepts being tossed about by callers. For instance, one woman thought if an American married an illegal alien, they became documented. Miller corrected that misconception, in part. I wish Twinad had fielded that question.

    Another man thought that his house had devalued because of illegal aliens had moved in. Did he miss the housing crash?

  43. Lafayette

    Cindy/Moon,
    Jackson’s words/advice to that caller were spot on. I hope the caller gets involved and gets the others that are so upset involved too. I hope the caller takes Jackson up on his offer to attend one of board meetings.

    I thought he did a good job “educating” the caller on illegal aliens marrying US Citizens.

    I still DON’T want to hear any talk about privatizing our ABC Stores. I was glad to hear the idea is kind of the back burner for now. Can anyone say Virginia tradition since prohibition.

    I heard a few familiar voices. 🙂

  44. McDonnell’s booze privatization probably won’t fly this year. What is this absurd love affair the Republicans seem to be having with ‘Virginia shouldn’t be in the booze business?’ Hell, most of them *I* have seen sure can pack it away.

    Why do they wan’t to break with tradition? Is it just to get cheaper booze and to give away all that is Virginia?

  45. @Lafayette,

    Good! he needs a spanking. I guess he is playing to his base. Why is he so obsessed with gay bashing?

  46. @Lafayette

    Agree about liquor store privatization. I don’t think Miller went far enough explaining the marriage to illegal alien situation.

    Miller didn’t say that a status adjustment is almost impossible to get now. That’s the reality. Again, ask Twinad.

    I thought I was going to barf when he started talking about how great it is to do well in school. Yea, its just great for everyone unless you were brought here as a child by illegal alien parents. Then it won’t get you crap. You should probably just join a gang rather than do your homework and study hard. Miller left that part out of his speech. he even c0-sponsored the bill.

  47. Lafayette

    Moon-howler :@Lafayette,
    Good! he needs a spanking. I guess he is playing to his base. Why is he so obsessed with gay bashing?

    Dunno! I think of bullies in school. I remember one girl in school who always picked on a girl with small ears close to her head. The bully told the girl she had big ears that stuck out. The funny thing is the bully ended up having her ears pinned to keep them from sticking out so much. Perhaps, Del Bob is of that mind set. It’s easier to bash “the guilty party” than to join them. Even if you belong in the camp of “the guilty party”. I hope this makes sense.

  48. marinm

    Plenty of people make a living with a high school diploma. Why join a gang?

    Did you know that in some places MS-13 sends kids to college (and protects them while they’re in high school) so that when they graduate as doctors, lawyers, etc that they can then help out the gang?

    Gangs see education as an investment in a perverse way. 🙂

  49. Lafayette

    Moon’s internet is down. And she to tell you Bull Pucky. The mafia might do that, but MS-13 doesn’t. The Mafia wears suits, and MS-13 wears bandana’s and baggy pants, have tatttoos.

    @marinm

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