Newly elected Governor Scott Walker has a huge problem on his hands. Many in his state are in rebellion against him over what are seen as draconian cuts to public employees. He also has attempted to neuter unions’ power trying to restrict collective bargaining.
President Obama has thrust himself into Wisconsin’s boiling budget controversy:
Obama accused Scott Walker, the state’s new Republican governor, of unleashing an “assault” on unions in pushing emergency legislation that would nullify collective-bargaining agreements that affect most public employees, including teachers.
The president’s political machine worked in close coordination Thursday with state and national union officials to mobilize thousands of protesters to gather in Madison and to plan similar demonstrations in other state capitals.
Speaker of the House John Boehner rebuked President Obama for criticizing the governor. Additional demonstrations are popping up in Indiana and Ohio, where similar efforts are underway to curb union power.
Under Walker’s plan, most public workers – excluding police, firefighters and state troopers – would have to pay half of their pension costs and at least 12 percent of their health-care costs. They would lose bargaining rights for anything other than pay. Walker, who took office last month, says the emergency measure is needed to save $300 million over the next two years to help close a $3.6 billion budget gap.
To add fuel to the fire, Democratic senators have sequestered themselves away in an undisclosed location to keep a quorum from forming. Republicans and bloggers are calling them cowards while those supporting the unions and public employees are cheering them on. By not showing up, the Democrats were able to block legislation that would cut paychecks and take a huge chunk out of union rights.
Some of those interviewed said they were willing to negotiate pay but they were not willing to give up any union rights, especially those dealing with collective bargaining. Public employees would have to pay a larger share of their retirement and also their health care. In some cases, a married couple, both who were teachers, figured that they would lose $1200 a month. The average teacher pay in Wisconsin is about $48,000.
Stay tuned. This situation isn’t over and it is spreading.
Just out of the gate here….mixed feelings. Reminder that Virginia is a right to work state and there is no collective bargaining for teachers or any other public employee.
I am not sure if these folks have health care benefits in retirement or not.
There are too many benefit cuts being dealt out at once. Oddly enough, people interviewed have said they will negotiate salary but not their collective bargaining rights.
A married man and woman who are both teachers would have approximately $1200 per month less. Average teacher pay in Wisconsin is $48,000 per year.
I read in an interesting article on the pension, healthcare benefits, etc for Congress. I wonder why there is such a disconnect between certain people who should have benefits and those that should not. THe collective bargaining is about taking away rights.
M-H, those darn millionaire teachers, no wonder Republicans didn’t want to tax those rich people, oh wait, they apparently are not those rich people!
This looks a little like the Tea Party getting the Tea Party treatment.
Yup, not those rich teachers and public employees.
I am tired of hearing how public employees have it so good. Historically, people in public service have made less salary in exchange for benefits. I find it amazing that public employees have become the new national scrapple.
I totally hate it when some jackass says ‘I pay your salary.’ What an arrogant remark.
First, I’d like to say I have no problem with anyone excercising their 1A right to protest or seek redress.
Having said that these rebels are doing so on our dime, “calling in sick” to avoid a strike designation and taking away days of education from their students.
Whenever the Governor decides to put down the rebellion. Good on him. Unemployment in this country is still pretty high and CA/NY and other states have already terminated teacher positions so if the Governor decides to fire all the striking teachers… The positions can be filled rather quickly.
I can’t wait to see these types of labor strikes in the larger Democratic strongholds. Imagine this occuring in NYC or San Fran? ..beautiful.
The governor is showing extreme paitence here.
marin, that is part of my dilemma. I don’t believe in ‘sick ins.’ The people out there aren’t just teachers. I also don’t believe in students being involved. Like I said, my support is not without some reservation. Mixed feelings here definitely.
I prefer to call it a massive demonstration at the moment. There will be more and more around the country as public servants continue to be denigrated by newly elected governments.
Actually the positions can’t be filled quickly were the governor to fire all the teachers. There are positions right here in PWC that go unfilled in critical shortage areas.
The students support them and are demonstrating with them.
No doubt some positions will go unfilled for a long time (finding a bilingual speech therapist that’s willing to relocate to Wisconsin will take some time..) but basic services could be restored fairly quickly (and I think the spectre of losing a job versus losing collective bargaining will finally hit home for some and they’ll acquiesce)
I think these demonstrations actually are good by showing the common working guy how good these public employees have it. I doubt my employer would keep me employed if I “called in sick” and then picketed them all while collecting a paycheck from that same employer.
I think they’d have more public backing if they were protesting on thier own time and not shutting down schools in order to do it.
I agree with you MH that more of these incidents will occur as states finally hit the wall and realize that the free ride is over. We all have to live within our means.
Maybe I’m not understanding something, but it doesn’t make sense to me that people who stand against big Government are also against unions. If the idea of smaller government is to put power back into the hands of the people, why is it wrong for the people to organize? If people shouldn’t look to government to insure fairness in the workplace and can’t band together to demand it, where does that leave them? Is it just those on the very top that get to benefit from small government?
@Boy, the students I saw interviewed had no idea about the issues. Also, I heard on TV that some of the teachers brought students. If that is the case, I don’t think that is appropriate. If someone’s parents want to bring their kid, fine.
Teachers need to make sure they remain professional in the eyes of students. I don’t believe students need to be involved in labor disputes.
Actually, if a sick in happens, then perhaps wages could be cut for that day. That usually brings everyone back in to the fold.
Just finding a speech therapist might be a problem. I have never heard of using a bi-lingual one, at least not around here. I would say that staffing math, science and foreign language classes might turn out to be real problematic. Now if they just want a warm body in there with no certification, perhaps. Not even sure about that.
I suppose I don’t see this as a free ride. I know lots and lots of people in private industry who get real decent benefits, often better than govt workers.
I think all of this will become another class war of sorts. As long as private citizens continue to look down their noses at those who work for various governments it will continue. The sad thing is, many people couldn’t go in and do many of the public jobs.
We don’t allow companies to collude with one another against consumers or employees but we allow that collusion from employees to employers. The equation is off.
What benefit is provided to the taxpayers of Wisconsin by having a unionize teaching force? Wisconsin teachers pay 6% of thier own healthcare and the Governor is trying to change that to 12%. Nationally the number is 25%. So, even under the Governor’s plan the taxpayers of Wisconsin are paying 12% more for wages [of the teachers] than on the national level.
Teachers pay mandatory union dues ($1100). Do you think that comes out of thier salary? Nope. The union gets the state to bump up pay to offset the dues so that the teachers never feel the pinch of the obligation they incur to the union. 1100 x every covered union member adds up to a lot of money the state could recoup.
Again, I’ll go back to the taxpayers. What benefit is gained to them for having a public employees union?
MH, I saw the same report about teachers bringing in kids but because it was mostly reported on the right-wing sites I’m holding fire on bringing that up. 😉 But, yes professionalism should be maintained if nothing else to show the students that civil debate should be used as much as possible.
I read that one school allowed students to do a sit in within the confines of the lunch room to show solidarity with teachers but doing anything outside of that would meet with punishment. Some students decided to wear symbols or skip school, etc. The staff is taking that insubordination seriously. Good to hear.
MH, I used a bi-lingual therapist as an example. Just admitting that certain billets will be harder to fill than others (some require very, very specialized skills).
I saw this snippet and wanted to share:
Walker’s reforms are unacceptable to protestors, many of whom are teachers participating in a “sickout” so that they can attend rallies against Walker’s proposals. And that’s ironic. According to the state of Wisconsin, the average teacher salary in Wisconsin is $49,093 annually. (With benefits, the average total compensation is $77,857.) With 190 school days per year, Wisconsin public education employees make about $258 per day. So in an effort to avoid contributing to their own pensions and funding 6 percent more of their own health care premiums, teachers have taken unpaid leave to protest and have given up nearly $500 – so far. (They could recoup the money if their districts add school days at the end of the year.) What’s more, Wisconsin teachers pay as much as $1100 each year in compulsory union dues. If the legislation passes, they will no longer be required to pay thosee dues – returning that money to their own pockets. (Weekly Standard)
I don’t see this as looking down my nose at those in public service but rather owning up to the current situation we all find ourselves in. The gravy train is simply out of gravy and just like in the housing market salaries are in for a ‘correction’. It’s our new reality.
In terms of companies versus employees, the company is the one with the upper hand. Employees aren’t wielding the power there, so what’s off about leveling the playing field in favor of those who are on the low end?
I guess I would answer that teachers are taxpayers, too, and they don’t have great salaries. The benefit to the rest of the taxpayers is having a professional, respected and fairly compensated teaching force to entrust their children to.
My understanding of this is the Wisconsin Gov wants the teachers to raise their contributions to their pension plan by 5%, and contribute 12% to their healthcare (they currently contribute zero). Now I understand that this is considered differred compensation, so this may or may not represent a huge financial hit to the individual teachers in terms of take-home. I also understand that the Wisconsin Gov wants to restrict collective bargining rights of the union in the area of Pensions and Benefits…not wages. This is key. Pension & Benefits are typically a negotiation between the union, and the state, whereas wages are typically a negotiation between the union and the locality. Lastly, it is my understanding that the Governor wants “Right to Work” language, meaning union membership is voluntary. Hardcore pro-labor folks may say “it is voluntary. If you don’t want to join the teacher’s union, then don’t be a teacher”. This is my main beef with unions. They can monopolize labor in a specific field, if the laws permit this.
Wisconsin, along with 45 other states are in deficit status, facing serious financial crisis. I am not picking on the rank & file teachers here. They perform a valuable service in our society, and should receive commensurate compensation. Same holds true for many public service employees, police, fire, etc. But IMHO, whenever the “pain” of cuts need to be spread around, the unions dig in and say “go somewhere else”. So where does the state go? Raise taxes?
@BoyThreeOne
So, in Virginia where we don’t have unions — are you saying our teachers are not professional?
The company really doesn’t have an upper hand. Without employees the company can’t make it’s product or provide it’s service. And, without employees on the whole being compensated and having available free time to spend the money they earn there is no market to sell those products. If McDonalds offers me $7.25/hour but Burger King offers me $7.50 – all other things being equal I’ll work at Burger King… Employees and consumers have more power than you think.
Remember when the economy was HOT? Employees would walk away from jobs if they didn’t get 10-20 or 30% yearly raises. No one was crying for the employers then OR saying that employees we’re greedy. 😉
marin, please stop calling it the gravy train. To me, gravy is something extra that isn’t really needed. Do we not need state workers, local workers, teachers? I say yes we do. (cops are exempt from this drastic cut.)
Additionally, I refuse to believe these teachers are getting nearly $29,000 in benefits. Someone isn’t being honest on that one. I discovered that FICA is often listed as a benefit. That is pure BS. It is mandated by federal law for everyone. It isn’t a benefit, yet it is always listed as one.
No one making $49,000 is getting $29k in benefits. Maybe 6000 in medical, Maybe 4000-5000 in pension. maybe 3000 in 401k…maybe.
Those are max amounts. It is probably less.
You forget you are talking about people’s livelihoods. I don’t see how a family in a mid income range can take a hit of $600-1200 dollars a month. And if they don’t have to pay that 1100 in union dues, then they wont be in the union any more.
Don’t get me wrong….I am a right to work girl. This issue causes me great conflict. It is a different bird than I am used to.
Doesn’t then the 1100 in required union dues count under your definition of gravy? It’s not needed – the taxpayer gets no benefit from it.
I think it’s very easy for a person making 49K to get 29K in benefits. Very easy.
Medical + dental + life/injury insurance + flex spending + family care + STD + LTD + Workers Comp + 401K + Social Security + Medicare + Paid Time Off + Training + Military/Jury/etc + professional fees + any local/state taxes I’ve missed.
I think I posted a year or so back where PWC pays about 25K in benefits (average)… So, 29K is very realistic.
Wisconsin has no more money. Either he can change the way the deals are made, fire some of the teachers, or go broke. What should they cut to continue to pay these wonderful benefits to the teachers?
If they are calling in sick, I want a doctor’s note. If no note, penalize them. If I was a parent, I would attempt a class action suit against these teachers. The protesters are trying to shut down the state gov’t by invading the legislation. One of the saddest parts? Some of the signs were spelled incorrectly.
Public employee unions have a conflict of interest. The ability of public sector unions to contribute money to campaigns while calling for higher taxes to pay more benefits so that the unions get more money, is a conflict of interest.
Well, there is no more money in the kitty. The public sector is realizing that its in the same boat as the private sector.
@marin who said:
Doesn’t then the 1100 in required union dues count under your definition of gravy? It’s not needed – the taxpayer gets no benefit from it.
The employee pays union fees. The taxpayer isn’t paying it.
Those things you listed are NOT benefits if required by law. Benefits are what the company choses to give you, not what they must give you.
And the Governor and Legislature are doing what they were elected to do. If the teachers union wants this proposition defeated, they should lobby the legislature and conduct a PR campaign, encouraging the voters to contact their legislators. With walk-outs, sick-outs, and massive protests intent on disrupting the function of the state government, it appears on its face as an attempt to subvert the legislative process.
@ marin who said:
Medical + dental + life/injury insurance + flex spending + family care + STD + LTD + Workers Comp + 401K + Social Security + Medicare + Paid Time Off + Training + Military/Jury/etc + professional fees + any local/state taxes I’ve missed.
I think I posted a year or so back where PWC pays about 25K in benefits (average)… So, 29K is very realistic.
PWC doesn’t pay anywhere close to 25k in benefits. Let’s call those mandated things like FICA and Medicare employer fees. They don’t have a choice.
What are these? family care + STD + LTD ?
Workman’s comp, medicare, FICA are mandatory. Jury duty- only if you are called. No one ever paid a penny on me for that.
Sick leave? not if you don’t use it. Professional fees? Such as? If your employer wants you to go to a conference and they pay, it is for their use, not your use.
You are listing things I do not consider benefits at all. Those are the cost of doing business whether it is a govt agency, non profit or a company.
I am not sure what multiplier is used in the public sector, but calculating the fringe on a private sector employee is typically a 1.2 or 1.3 multiplier, ie. take their pre-tax salary, and multiply by 1.2 or 1.3. Paid vacation and holidays also count as benefits, so this must be included. Considering that most public sector employees get many more paid holidays than a private sector employee, the fringe will be a bit higher. Let’s use 1.4 for the sake of argument. A teacher making $60K a year in salary, will receive $24K in fringe benefits at 1.4 calculation. If we use the higher end of the private sector employee multiplier 1.3, he or she would receive $18K in fringe. Additionally, private sector pensions are almost extinct. Private sector employees bear a much larger burden in funding their individual retirement. About the best 401K match I have ever seen is 7%, and this would be included in the 1.3 multiplier. Typical is 3-4.5%.
And in the interest of full disclosure, I am married to a non-union public-sector employee.
So far I have seen 5 different average teacher salaries and benefits for the Wisconsin teachers in the past 2 days. The last benefits backage I saw was overe $38k. That is such bullshit.
Now everyone is on the bandwagon over all teachers’ salaries and supposed tenure, nation wide. You know, if anyone has a reason to be on a hate at teachers, it might be me. But I don’t. I am going to sit back and laugh my tail off when everyone retires and it costs a freaking fortune just to put a live body in the classroom.
Teachers are presented with tasks that are impossible to meet (100% mastery of SOLs by 2014 in accordance with NCLB) with kids often unwilling and unready to learn. They put up with abuse from kids and parents whose children have never done anything wrong a day in their life. The pay is mediocre at best. The benefits are also average. The pensions are usually fairly good and many people put up with substandard for better retirement.
Where will replacements come from? Someone please tell me? Perhaps now would be a good time start a good foreign import program with India because that is where the teachers will come from. Overseas. It has already started as a matter of fact, here in PWC.
Dream on if people think they will just replace the ‘striking teachers.’
I won’t stand in judgement of a union state. It sounds like perhaps they are on to something. Waiting for the laughter to start.
@Cargo, then perhaps they need to start thinking about raising the almighty taxes if they need to do that to run the state.
Its happening here. 3 cents per hundred. Oh well. It that’s what it takes to have services then pony up.
The private sector is doing fairly well right now. Companies are sitting on lots of cash.
The Wisconsin school system closed because of “expected absences.” They should have stayed open, thereby not excusing these absences.
I also find inexcusable that Obama’s Organizing for America helped organize the “day of rage” in Madison. The campaign organization is also setting up protests in Indiana and Ohio.
People are becoming tired of funding generous benefit plans with high state taxes. The mantra of “we have high taxes because we have better services” has been discovered to be a lie. These taxes are going for union benefits. I’m sure glad that we are a Right to Work state.
@Steve, I cannot speak for Wisconsin and I have conflict over what is going on here. Much of the street behavior is an anathma to me. However, teachers do not get paid holidays unless it snows. Teachers are paid for 195 days (or thereabouts) that do not include holidays, summers or anything else.
Moon,
Please don’t take my comments as an indictment of the work ethic of teachers. I think teachers get a bad rap. Back in my day, if my teachers called a teacher’s conference with my parent, due to my not taking my education seriously enough, it was a big deal. My Mom had to take off work, (unpaid) and then had to hear that young stevie didn’t want to pay attention in math class, I got it at home.
Now teachers are expected to fill the gap when a parent is uninvolved. They are required to do a lot more than just educate. In many jurisdictions, the classrooms are filled exlusively with at-risk kids, and dysfunction abounds. Yes, teachers do work hard, and you will never become wealthy being a public school teacher.
But, states are having to take drastic measures to get budgets under control. The fed has already told them, “don’t come here for a bailout”. There is no bankruptcy for states, as there is for municipalities. They can either raise taxes, or cut spending. What both the Fed and States must look at are the “out-year” costs. Those costs are the ones that will crush us all, if we don’t deal with them. Social Security. Medicare/Medicaid. Employer-funded pensions. These are what the Fed and State must look at.
I wish the economy was booming and revenues were flowing into the treasury from new wealth creation. This would mean that everyone was doing well. But the economy isn’t booming, and it looks like it will take years to dig out of this mess. In the meantime, hard, painful choices will have to be made. I have been seeing it in the private sector going back as far as 2007, when the economy first began showing real signs of stress. “Doing nothing” is not an option. The sooner society as a whole accepts the fact that we need to act in what Ayn Rand called “Rational Self-Interest” the better off we’ll all be. The unions need to realize this too. Look at GM and Chrysler. Had the Obama administration not violated bankruptcy rules as to who gets paid first, (giving the autoworkers union a huge share in the new companies, vice the secured creditors) these companies would have been liquidated. The net would have been thousands of their union members out of work, with no one to hire them. Toyota, Hundai, BMW, SAAB, etc. are all non-union shops. So, when the union refused consessions when GM was trying to survive, where they acting in the rational self-interest of their members?
People assume that because teachers’s salaries are annualized they get paid vacations and other such niceties. Not so. If you are docked a day, your annual salary is divided by 195. That is very standard in Virginia.
People mistakenly think that teachers are on gravy street. It isn’t so. What it costs a company to hire a person is not the benefit the employee necessarily gets.
@Moon-howler
MH said: The employee pays union fees. The taxpayer isn’t paying it.
The union fights to increase the salary of the employee to cover the union cost. So, if the union we’re operating for free there wouldn’t be a need to cover the 1100 required union dues – so salaries could drop across the entire work force by 1100/employee. My arguement is that while the teachers pay the 1100 out of their paycheck the union simply argues for higher compensation to cover the fee so that the teacher doesn’t feel it. But, the taxpayer does.
MH said: Those things you listed are NOT benefits if required by law. Benefits are what the company choses to give you, not what they must give you.
You’re looking at the word benefit and not seeing it in the context of mandatory and voluntary payments outside of salary that the employer pays out. You are taking out the stuff that’s required by law in the calculation but those line items do exist, have to be paid out and greatly increase the cost to the employer of each employee. It’s not funny money and as you indicated it’s a cost of doing business that the taxpayer pays out. So, that’s “in-game” for purposes of setting future salaries and levels of compensation outside of salary.
I posted PWC’s own numbers so if you don’t agree with the 25K figure feel free to ask the School Board. They’ll give you the same number (assuming they answer your email).
Family Care (some employers offer an account like a FSA for managed care of kids or elderly adults), LTD = Long Term Disability and STD = Short Term Disability
All those things I’ve listed as I’ve said above are costs paid by the taxpayer. So, they’re either in-bounds or we take away the fringe and have the employer pay all the cost – like professional dues, training, etc. (without raising salary)
How we describe the problem – gravy train, easy ride, free ride, etc. – doesn’t change the problem we face. We have more out than coming in. So, let’s adjust what’s going out and allow the legislature in WI to do it’s job and vote up or down on this.
If the public employees have a case they’ll make it in chambers and get the required votes… If they don’t, they won’t.
Public school teacher salaries are just another example of the inefficiencies of public sector “business”. Private school teachers make considerably less yet individuals still pay a premium to send their children to them in order to get a better education.
More “less bang for more buck”. It’s refreshing to see people finally opening their eyes and mouths at the cost of being politically incorrect.
@mando, I am not sure you are getting a better education for less money. That all depends. I am not sure what tool you are using to evaluate it. I guess if you say it enough times, that makes it so.
I will say that private schools have much less ‘riff raff ‘to deal with. They can take the students they want and throw those who don’t fit in out. Does that make those teachers better? NO. There is room for both private and public schools. It depends on the kid, the region, the school system and the neighbors what you choose for your child.
Moon,
If that is the case for paid holidays, then the finge would be more in-line with private sector, of course. I was speaking in terms public-sector employess in general. Mrs. T gets many more paid holidays than I do. Same holds true for Federal workers I know police work holidays, but they also get time/half and overtime too. My point is, the finge tends to be a bit thicker on the public sector side. In the past, the argument was made that average private sector income was higher than public sector, so the difference was made up in fringe. However, private sector wages have declined substantially over the last 4 years as unemployment created a labor surplus. Many private-sector companies have decreased or suspended their 401K match, and increased the employee contribution for healthcare, just to avoid laying people off. My main point is, the states are out of money. The fed is out of money. Things won’t get better until the private sector recovers. Raising taxes isn’t an option. Therefore, short-term and long-term costs must be controlled everywhere.
Raising taxes is an option. PWC tax rate will go up 3 cents. There is no reason the taxes can’t go up enough to give the county employees a raise that they haven’t had in 3 years-even if only a little bit. I am speaking of the non-education side of the house. More is expected of them for frozen salaries. Unemployment in PW is not high so there really is no reason not to.
@Steve,
I see public employees becoming low hanging fruit. How easy was it for the state of VA to reach into the VRS for a little loan, right here iun Virginia. VRS had the money and according to the VA Constitution, it is only for pensions.
After taking the money, then the criticizm of public employees started.
I don’t think all teachers have a good work ethic. They are like any other group of workers. Some good, some bad, some not good for this student, some great for another student. Same with all public employees. I mainly wanted to address compensation and the errors people make when they think teachers are somehow getting rich all while getting a 2 month vacation. Its a vacation, but unpaid.
I have mixed feelings about unions and I have mixed feelings about this uprising. Because we are a right to work state, it is hard for me to think in the same terms as what I am seeing on TV. I guess Wisconsin ought to be glad that these aren’t coal miners. When those folks strike, they are serious, deadly serious. I have state cop friends who used to have to pull strike duty down in the coal mine fields. I know from stories how deadly serious those folks can be.
I suppose I don’t want to see our public employees here in PWC throw in with Wisconsin and at the same time, I am cheering them on if that makes sense.
Oh and I haven’t said it but the governor does not have the right to call the missing legislators back. What a nerve. I want to just smack him.
It must be a police state there. I cannot believe they sent the state police to bring legislators back.
The crowd I see on TV makes me think of the crowd outside the capital the day the health care bill was passed.
“I guess Wisconsin ought to be glad that these aren’t coal miners.”
or SEIU members. Those folks don’t even need to be on strike to get physical. Just get them involved in an election campaign….
“There is no reason the taxes can’t go up enough to give the county employees a raise that they haven’t had in 3 years-even if only a little bit.”
Why?
Like it or not, we may be lucky enough to be in a period of actual govt. downsizing. At a certain point these public sector employees will begin leaving for the private sector. Until then, their salaries are too high. Hopefully, fiscal responsibility continues, deficits go down, taxes go down, and we all benefit.
The question about public teachers you should be asking is why don’t they just quit and get another job? I’m thinking it’s because there is no other job on the planet that will pay them what they’re getting paid for the job they do.
@marin, you know, many workers, when looking for a job, look at benefits. They don’t look at FICA, Workman’s comp etc. They look at the healthcare package, pension/401k, etc, vacation etc. Many people will take good benefits over higher pay.
All the mandates just aren’t benefits. Who cares. You will have those paid regardless of what you do. Feds and State will see to that.
Mando, actually, you don’t really have any idea what you are talking about.
Is it that you think they are all too stupid and incompetent to go work in a ‘real job?” Try comparing a math teacher salary to a salary of a mathematician working for an insurance company.
I was right, this really is a war on govt employees. You just confirmed it.
The bottom line is, you won’t win. Why? Because one of the first signs of civiliation is when a jurisdiction has services like libraries, mail delivery, schools, street sweeping, trash removal, colleges, etc. Most people want the niceties of life.
Rachel Maddow said last night that when the new republican Governor took office, Wisconsin was on track to have a $123M budget surplus. The Governor then orchestrated a $140M tax cut for the wealthy. Then he said the State was going broke and had to cut public employees benefits, wages and collective bargainig rights. The reason that Police, Fire and State Troopers were exempt was that their unions supported the repuplican nominee for Governor and the rest of the unions supported the Democrat. I don’t know personally if this is true but it is worth looking into.
so, the bill ends collective bargaining for all state employees except police, fire fighters and the state patrol – why are they exempt from collective bargaining if the bill passes?
The amount of the Healthcare cost increase and Pension increase is about 8% of salary – how many people would like to get an 8% haircut? I do not know when the teachers last got an increase, or how much that increase may have been. Could they have not phased in the healthcare contribution?
I wonder if the Governor has looked into reducing the size of the State Legislature and Senate – each of them (132) receive a salary of about 50K, plus office expenses.
If the state was in such dire straits, why did the Governor push through $140Million in new spending in January?
Pitting the have vs the have-notes – it used to be (and in some areas it still is) that a civil service job had a lower working wage, with higher benefits than those in the private sector – in recent years, with outsourcing and such, the wages of the public sector has risen, while the benefits package has not been reduced. As far as paying prevailing wages – you can see what happens when a private company contracts things out – either the jobs go elsewhere, or they import labor from other areas, and the company pockets the difference in the area prevailing wage, and the imported/exported wage. If the going wage in that state in $10 per hour, at least the employees will get the $10 per hour, hopefully by keeping the job local.
From the TP point of view – why was it OK for people to go to disrupt town hall meetings (and not learn what the speaker was trying to say) and the teachers moving in on the State Capitol?
Shepherd Smith just confirmed that Gov. Walker gave corporate tax cuts and put the deficit on the backs of the teachers and other public employees.
Its definitely a war on public employees.
The anti- gov’s will not prevail.
Pat makes a great point…why was it ok to disrupt town all meetings and now the teachers are all the bad guys? I won’t even say the H word.
You Guys have missed the point, this has nothing to do with salaries,dues or budgets.
When the Governor took office according to the state office of budgets, the state was inline to have an excess for 2011 so what shortfall is he trying to cover? The real reason for the “union busting” legislation is that of the top ten contributors to political campaigns, only three are supporting democrats.And if you think those three are Unions you would be right! If Unions didn’t have funds to support democrats, only republicans could make the big media buys.
Spread this to other states and only republicans can be elected. If you still believe this is about balancing Wisconsin’s budget, then I’ve wasted my time!
Because the people at those town halls weren’t drawing a public salary while protesting.
I don’t think anyone here has said they don’t have that right – the right to be there and protest – but people do have a problem with those teachers walking out on thier obligation to work for the pay they get, to be sick when they say they’re sick and not just because they want the day off, and to frankly do their jobs and educate the kids that are sitting at home playing video games right now.
I’ll point this out again — what value do public government unions have to me as a taxpayer?
@marinm
Because the people at those town halls weren’t drawing a public salary while protesting.
Actually, without knowing the individuals and their employers you have no idea whether they were or not.
The fat cats I’m sure are laughing all the way to the bank as they pit Joe Six-pack, Peter Peon, and Martha mid-level manager against each other. Maybe the stupid ones are the one who don’t believe in collective bargaining. Oh dear, if we organize, Big Biz will export all our jobs. Better to be hatin’ on each other. All the little Rand-supporters desperately trying to grab their pieces of the pie while stabbing their neighbor with their forks.
Bear tells us of the Governor’s motivation. However, to those poor slobs out there in the street, holding a sign, it might mean the difference in eating a steak once a week or beans. It might mean the difference in keeping a house or losing it to foreclosure.
So now David Hale of some teaparty is stalking the Democrats who went over the state line. High drama.
So the public salary means you own them? BS. What about the people who aren’t out there? What kind of punishment do we have for them?
There are a lot of things that happen that don’t benefit me, the taxpayer. I am not obsessed with the fact that I pay taxes. That doesn’t give me the right to tromp all over someone because I do. Does that mean I should go over to the public health department and remind people that *I* paid for that that medicaid and to get rid of that cell phone? Nah. (tempting though it might be, I don’t have that right.)
@Censored, What I don’t understand is why all the middle management is siding with all the fat cats. The fat cats are laughing at them too.
I did hear that most of the jurisdictions will be asking for doctor’s excuses. Not sure that is totally legal but we’ll see.
Actually, I had very mixed emotions when I first posted this discussion. I am not a union person as a rule. However, the more I hear, the more I am leaning in favor of these people.
Sometime the empire has to strike back.
The sergeant at arms and the state police have no authority to cross state lines into Illinois to ask (they can’t force) the legislators back to the Senate.
For these Wisconsin democrats they have a new saying: UNITED WE FLEE.
Ohio, Michigan and Nevada look to be the next battlegrounds for this same issue… I saw that 40 union members in NV got arrested today.
BRRZZZZZ! Wrong. I didn’t say either. Teaching is a real job so they should be paid real wages. Not made up wages on how much we or they “feel” they should make. I would never say teachers are dumb or incompetent. I’m engaged to one!
I think teaching is one of the few jobs that pay should not be the motivating factor and the free market bears that out considering private teachers are paid less but we are willing to pay more for their services. This tells me our demand is higher for a teacher who’s motivating factor is teaching rather then money.
Good luck. Let me know how that works out for you. Getting quality people to teach because they just love it….and might even do it for free.
Maybe surgeons should be the same. They should just love healing people. Forget money. 🙄
ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!!
I agree with Mando here.. I don’t mind paying a teacher MORE but I want to make sure we’re getting better quality for that bump in pay. To me it’s all about merit. The idea that we pay more for time in service or advanced degrees — doesn’t change the fact that a bad teacher with 20 years in and a PhD is still a bad teacher. Gimme a hard charger w/ no experience or 20 years any day!
Simply put, by arbitrarily increasing public teaching salaries we are attracting those we’d least like teaching our kids so we are forced to use more expensive private schooling.