Washington Post: [Virginia Politics] 2/23/11
The Virginia Senate has postponed a major vote over abortion rights, as Democrats in the chamber hunt for votes to kill last-minute legislation that would regulate clinics where first trimester abortions are performed as hospitals.
The chamber Wednesday began a debate over the abortion clinic amendment added by the House of Delegates to an unrelated bill. Sen. Jeff McWaters (R-Virginia Beach) told colleagues that the measure is needed to ensure the safety of women who seek abortions.
Sen. Mary Margaret Whipple (D-Arlington) said that Virginia would be the first state in the country to regulate first trimester abortion clinics as hospitals and that the rules, which include regulations on hallway and doorway width, would put the majority of the state’s abortion clinics out of business.
Two conservative Democrats have said they will vote for the bill. If all of the chamber’s 18 Republicans also back the measure Thursday, the chamber would face a tie vote. A tie would be broken by Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling (R), who supports the bill.
A spokesman for Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) said Wednesday that governor supports the amendment and will sign the bill if the senate approves it.
“He encourages the Senate to approve this commonsense measure that will ensure that all outpatient surgical centers are treated the same, in order to ensure the health and safety of our citizens,” said McDonnell spokesman Tucker Martin. “He will sign the bill if it passes the full legislature. At that time we would then work with the appropriate state agencies to promulgate regulations consistent with this statue.”
By Rosalind S. Helderman
This is a serious bill that will put some clinics that provide abortion services out of business, which is the bill’s intent. Virginians will just have to go to other states if they need abortion service if existing clinics cannot widen their hallways and increase their door width and basically turn in to mini hospitals. Certainly the building codes are not the only restrictions. The bill, if passed, would make any clinic performing more than 5 abortions a month meet hospital standards.
The question Virginians should be asking themselves is do they want all outpatient surgeries to conform to this same standard? Oral surgery, some dentistry, dermatology, plastic surgery all have surgeries performed and many of these procedures have a much higher risk than abortion. Virginia will probably become the mecca for RU-486 abortions. Those patient requiring surgical abortion might have to go to adjoining states or the District.
It seems to me, all or none. Either all outpatient surgical procedure fall under these draconian rules or none do. That is the part of this plan that simply won’t pass the smell test or hold up in court. Our own local Senator Colgan will probably be one of 2 state senators who support the bill. If that should happen, he had better not count on putting a sign in my yard again. One can be opposed to abortion without just being ridiculous.
“Abortion is fine all the way up to the second of birth and to some…during birth. Unwanted children should die because they are unwanted?”
On this one, I was wrong about Virginia, but it holds true in other states. Partial birth abortion anyone?
As I said, YOU don’t agree that a fetus is human life. You see it as potential, with no rights, and seem willing to use abortion as contraception. And that ‘s legal. I wasn’t trying to convince you to change your mind or get RvW changed. Won’t happen. Just stating my opinion of how many pro-life people see the argument and why they will fight for the rights of the unborn.
Planned Parenthood was defunded because it provides abortions. Money is fungible. Every dollar, once it arrives at PP can be used as they wish. PP is a for profit business. Here’s part of the problem.
From here: http://overmountainman.newsvine.com/_news/2011/02/23/6117368-planned-parenthood-uses-tax-dollars-to-turn-a-profit
Planned Parenthood has long espoused the argument that they are much more than a provider of abortion services. The organization and its supporters say that they deserve TITLE X funding because Planned Parenthood provides reproductive healthcare for women, such as birth control, body image counseling, and general health care. At least that is the CLAIM they make on the website.
But are they telling the truth?
At a time when they are trying to distance themselves from the abortion business and abortions across the United States were at a historic low, the organization itself was PERFORMING MORE ABORTIONS than at any time in its history. This runs counter to everything Planned Parenthood is on record as claiming. In fact, the number of abortions performed by planned parenthood has more than doubled in the last ten years, a figure eerily similar to their increase in funding, culminating in more $363 million in taxpayer money going to Planned Parenthood this last year.
Last night JOHN STEWART tried to trip up the debate (big surprise), saying that this for profit organization is in business “to make money off concessions.” Well, kind of. Planned Parenthood claims that 3% of their business is abortions, and yet, 37% of their revenue was generated last year by abortion centers, as opposed to 28% from private donations and 33% from government grants.
How’s this? Planned Parenthood stops doing abortions and I’m willing to DOUBLE their funding, if this is all about prenatal care, contraception, etc. PP can start another, completely separate business that provides abortions that receives no tax money.
@Cargo, PP is not trying to distance itself from abortion. It does not provide abortions at every facility.
For the past several years the number of abortions nationwide is down. I have no proof that PP is providing more or less than usual. It doesn’t matter to me how many they perform. There are all sorts of reasons that their numbers could go up and down. One such reason might be that other providers in the area have gone out of business and they are picking up the slack for some other facility. Who knows. It is unimportant. When they are there, we in the pro choice community know that abortion is safe and legal and not back alley or with some butcher like the slime bag in PA. Safety for women is really the bottom line.
Cargo, who are you addressing in the above post?
“Partial birth abortion’ is a misnomer and also is no longer legal in this country. It is a D & X procedure.
Moving on….So when do we decide just when live begins but when it is prioritized over sensient beings? Is it instantly at fertilization? How about in a petrie dish?
Is at conception, when implantation takes place? Is it when a fetus can live on its own and we could diaper it if not in the womb?
These are fairly important questions to women. And do you have the right to make the determination for someone else?
Planned Parenthood in the next block.
Federal funds cannot go for abortion as per the 30 year old Hyde Amendment.
Patients pay for their own abortions.
Separate accounts are kept. Many Planned Parenthood facilities don’t even provide abortion. This argument gets so old. There should be no argument.
I have decided it is all about control. And once there is no funding for contraception, then it will be something else to exercise control. Already there are restrictions on various programs for the poor.
“As I said, YOU don’t agree that a fetus is human life. You see it as potential, with no rights, and seem willing to use abortion as contraception. ”
Who are you to tell me what I believe? A fetus is human and alive. I just do not see it as a PERSON who has more right to live than the woman carrying it.
And quite all this BS about abortion as contraception. It is a LIE and it is complete and utter BULLFLOP. The obstacles, costs and restrictions on abortion nowadays make it damn near IMPOSSIBLE to use it (as if one would WANT TO) as a mere “contraception” As for ME, I had my tubes tied after my 2nd child so that I would NEVER have to make a choice in the current state of affairs in case ANYTHING were top go wrong with a future pregnancy – or if my husband and I decided one more would be TOO MANY.
Oh and your little site where that “opinion piece” came from? Yeah – seems as if it was an “article” from a conservative blogger….(you should really follow the “seeded” link…)
http://sgpaction.com/content/history
From that oh-so-reliable article’s source….
“Smart Girl Politics started in June of 2008 as a blog by Founder, Stacy Mott. Tired of complaining about politics, she started her blog as a way to vent her frustrations over the 2008 Presidential race. In November of 2008, she posted a help wanted sign on her blog asking for other conservative women to join her to discuss politics and conservatism. She received 60 emails the first week.”
Excuse me while I call BULLSHIT again on your “source”
One is entitled to one’s own opinion…..NOT ONE’S OWN FACTS…as your “source” claims.
FACT: 90% of services performed at PP are for non-abortion services. STD Testing, Pap Smears, pre-natal care, etc. THIS IS WHERE the grant monies go. The rest is from abortions.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/AR08_vFinal.pdf
BY LAW PP has to disclose its annual financial report to the public. Flip to page 9 to see how much is earned via other services than abortion.
No, you aren’t here to change anybody’s mind, but you have NO qualms with lying, using falsehoods and mysogynistic tripe to doiwngrade a woman’s right to choose or the reasons behind WHY a woman may choose abortion.
“Every dollar, once it arrives at PP can be used as they wish. ”
BULLSHIT. A grant is money given by the state to an organization for A SPECIFIC PURPOSE. The organization MUST PROVE that those monies are going towards their SPECIFIC GRANT’S Recipients/Goals. If it went the way YOU claim, ANY non-profit could pocket grant monies and spend them as they wished – WHICH IS NOT THE CASE. They have to prove that the $$$$$ went to their specific purpose. All screaming and hysterics on part of the pro-liars that fed $$$$ goes to abortions via PP is a flat, blatant LIE.
………..
Oh and your wee quip on Partial-Birth abortion. Yeah – because it was used on viable, healthy white babies….brought in to be killed by a cold-hearted mother and a murderous MD. Again, BULLSHIT.
It was used in the RAREST of cases where the fetus was A) DEAD in the uterus B) The fetus had such severe abnormalities it would die upon or shortly after birth. IT was done to preserve the woman’s cervix from scarring and scraping – from teh OTHER method whereby the fetus is dissected in the womb and extracted. The PBA method allowed a husband and wife to HOLD their dead baby and say goodbye instead of having to bury a box with severed limbs in it. YEAH – REAL PRO_LIFE.
Lies, LIES LIES….and misconceptions….seem to be all you have presented here. If you are against abortion, don’t have one. But don’t stand there in pseudo-lofty morality claiming to care for the “baybeez” when you have shown little compassion for women, contempt for people who wish to have a sex life and care nothing for facts.
And if I sound pissed off, I am. The Big Lie machine that has pushed the “pro-life” movement along gives two shits for women OR children.
@Not Me, Bubba
Hurts when a small business has to deal with oppresive government regulation, does it not?
@Not Me, Bubba
“I think it is merely potential.”
As I said, YOU don’t agree that a fetus is human life. You see it as potential,
And now you know why I said that. YOU said it first.
But don’t stand there in pseudo-lofty morality claiming to care for the “baybeez” when you have shown little compassion for women, contempt for people who wish to have a sex life and care nothing for facts.
Get a grip. I have done nothing of the sort. You want to talk morality, I’ll talk morality. You won’t like it. But that’s not what I’ve done. Am I showing little compassion for women because there’s still an argument about the value of unborn life. Have I insulted anyone? Where have I shown contempt for people that wish to have a sex life? I expect people to act rationally. If I can do it and other people can do it, shouldn’t that be considered normal? Apparently using a conservative source automatically means its LIES LIES LIES.
Maybe I have some misconceptions. Have I argued against anything presented against what I’ve said?
However, what I have presented is philosophical disagreement with you. And part of that is the case that abortion has been, and is, used as contraception. Its an ugly fact, but it is a fact. Because I don’t agree with your OPINION does not give you the right to call me a LIAR. You want pissed off? I’m not even a hard core anti-abortion person. But here is a fact for you. 43 million abortions. For all sorts of reasons. Some even necessary for medical reasons. Some because someone was inconvenienced. And others because a woman was in fear for her life, sanity, reputation, etc. They all had reasons. You can justify them to your hearts content and I won’t argue with you.
43 million abortions. And you wonder why some people might object to that.
@Cargosquid
I’d wager that damn near every person thinks/considers what he or she does as normal. Most consider their families normal and their life choices normal. Those choices and family patterns may be different from yours and mine – and actually may be clinically disfunctional – but it’s “normal” to that person. This probably goes a long way in explaining why some people don’t function as we wish in this society and why their families fall into the same habits generation after generation.
“As I said, YOU don’t agree that a fetus is human life. You see it as potential,
And now you know why I said that. YOU said it first. ”
Actually if you READ what I wrote, I said a fetus is A) Human and B) ALIVE. It is therefore a Human LIFE. Where I expanded further however is that I do not see that HUMAN LIFE as a PERSON yet. Merely the POTENTIAL to become a person.
“Where have I shown contempt for people that wish to have a sex life? ”
As you stated:
“Why can’t a woman or a man get contraception? Are condoms that expensive? Is not having sex without protection that expensive? Have we fallen so far that the sex drive is not controllable or that to satisfy those needs that they can’t do “something else” together?”
Need I say MORE????
“I expect people to act rationally. If I can do it and other people can do it, shouldn’t that be considered normal? ”
So everyone should live as you do? Because mistakes never happen? Your life is without mistake or error?
“Apparently using a conservative source automatically means its LIES LIES LIES.”
When an OPINIONATED CONSERATIVE BLOG is used as “proof or evidence” of anything other than the fact said conservative blogger has an opinion on XYZ then YES, it is quite biased and most likely full of LIES. Lila Rose, I am sure likes to consider her opinions FACT, but it doesn’t make them SO.
“And part of that is the case that abortion has been, and is, used as contraception. ”
Okay then, show me the numbers and stats of women who use it as contraception instead of getting regular BC. Show me the MULTITUDES of women who frequent abortion clinics to use abortion as their means of contraception, despite all the hurdles and obstacles they must endure to get an abortion and maybe you will have a point. But what I find even more curious is teh fact that you hold onto this argument of women using abortion as BC to prove….what? They should be forced to have those children? Women who (if they are out there en masse like you claim) abort for BC…at close to $400 a pop….should NOT be allowed to do so because…..they would make great mothers?
Clarify that for me.
“43 million abortions. And you wonder why some people might object to that.”
And how many miscarriages? How many stillbirths? How many infant deaths due to neglect or lack of medical care? Those numbers are MUCH LARGER, buit the “pro-lifers” could give two shits. How many fetuses died in Iraq when we were there? Where were the cries for those “unborn”?
You want respect for life? Start with those actually HERE and PRESENT before we can even start to pontificate on zygotes and tell women that they MUST carry every pregnancy to term.
Yeah, 43 Mil is a bit high, but considering we have over 6 billion LIVING PEOPLE here on Earth, many of whom lack medical care, or FOOD…I would rather concentrate on them than on the lost fetuses.
Perhaps consider sending a coat hanger to your delegate/senator if they voted for this amendment. Am sure they can give it to someone seeking an abortion.