In an 8-1 decision, the Supreme Court has upheld the right of Westboro Baptist Church to demonstrate at the funerals of fallen heroes. According to CNN:
A Kansas church that attracted nationwide attention for its angry, anti-gay protests at the funerals of U.S. military members has won its appeal at the Supreme Court, an issue testing the competing constitutional limits of free speech and privacy.
The justices by a 8-1 vote on Wednesday said members of the Westboro Baptist Church had a right to promote what they call a broad-based message on public matters such as wars.
The father of a fallen Marine had sued the small church, saying those protests amounted to targeted harassment and an intentional infliction of emotional distress.
“Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and– as it did here– inflict great pain,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote. “On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker.”
Roberts explanation was that the real criticism was of the government and military and not the individual. Tell that to the families who are grieving. The Roberts Court has been very disappointing.
Will Bill O’Reilly pay the father’s judgement? He did say he would.
Disgusting. These “church” members are harassing people. It’s not just freedom of speech.
Agree, Pinko!!!
I happen to agree with the ruling, it’s totally free speech (no matter how disgusting and vile it may be). Lets just hope that bikers keep up the good work of blocking out their protests at these funerals.
It’s kind of like an elected official (a man) telling another elected official (a woman) “Your f**king dead!”. I don’t agree with it at all but it’s his right to say it if he wants to even though I think some legal action may be necessary… maybe that’s a bad example. Oh well, who cares, MSM won’t even report on it so who will even know about it, right? Just another example of Democrats being civil I suppose.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/28/prostitute-patronizing-dem-wisconsin-state-represent-to-female-gop-colleague-you-are-fucking-dead/
Actually there is a huge difference.
And on the other hand, why am I not surprised.
Why on earth do you continue to hold Democrats to a higher standard? Do you feel they are better than REpublicans? I can’t understand why you are always so shocked when one of them misbehaves. You whine about it like it was done to you personally.
Do you think I cared when Bush called somone an AH? Nah. I probably would have agreed with him. I didn’t care when Dick Morris got caught with a hooker either. I just mind having to hear him and look at him.
“Why on earth do you continue to hold Democrats to a higher standard?”
For same exact reasons you hold Republicans to a higher standard. You bash R’s for affairs and things of the sort, which I agree with on, because they are supposedly the “family values” party.
Well, how many times have we heard Democrats plea for “civility” and “civil discourse” especially since the AZ tragedy? With all of that big talk I would consider Democrats to be the party of “civility” like they always claim to be. It’s just funny that even when a male Democrat tells a female Republican (in public mind you) that “YOUR F**KING DEAD!” the reaction from you and the left is, eh, who cares. Awesome, just don’t ever point the finger then at the right for their “civility” issues. It’s a two way street.
Something else you won’t see on MSNBC or Huff ‘n Puff…
@Hello, I also bash democrats for affairs, if their name is John Edwards. He had a sick wife. Surely you remember my thread. I mainly bash Republcans for such things if they have tried to legislate their version of family values. Other than that, I don’t care what they do as long as it isn’t illegal. Even a little illegal might get by with me. (thinking prostitution)
I certainly never said that democrats were civil. I have been both a D and an R. I don’t think one has the high road with civility over the other. I think you think I am a D. I am not. I am an I. Its like everything else. There are good people and bad people in all clubs and groups.
You might see it, if it exists, on msnbc if you watch Morning Joe. You probably have never seen the show. It is very balanced.
Why does it say “this video is no longer available” when I look at this thread?
@hello
If a kid in school said that to another kid in school, the speaker would be considered to have made a threat.
I just thought of something Moon, you refer to me pointing out a male Democrat (in a public forum) telling a female Republican that “YOUR F**KING DEAD” as holding Democrats to a “higher standard”. Really? So by that assumption am I to believe that that is the norm for Democrats? Are they all scumbag a-holes and we should just accept that? Should I then just be shocked if Democrats actually show any resemblance of the “civility” they speak of?
@Posting as Pinko
Which is why I’m perplexed about the whole thing Pinko… sounds like a threat to me aimed squarely at an elected official. However, the person making the treat has a D next to their name so we all know it’s no big deal and nothing will come of it. Right? Yeah civility!
@Hello, if that was an exact quote, I don’t understand why the woman didn’t file assault charges on him. I would have.
Don’t know Moon, maybe the fact that Republicans there have faced angry, hostile, completely uncivil mobs (bused in from out of state) for the past two weeks. She also said that they felt intimidated by the threat as well. Maybe when the cowards that left the state come back to do their job and this issue is over with she will, who knows.
And yes, it was a direct quote from the prostitute loving a-hole, he even apologized for it: http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110228/APC0101/303010023/Wisconsin-Rep-Gordon-Hintz-apologizes-comments-made-Assembly-floor-following-budget-vote
Funny, this guy was even featured on MSNBC, they touted a few of his ‘tirades’ but for some reason left out the “YOUR F**KING DEAD!” tirade (or even mentioned it). Odd…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9xi3Of786M
BTW, I love the fact that he complains that the bill was a whopping 144 pages and he only had 3 days to look it over. LOL! Where was he when Obamacare was jammed thru?
I wonder how the SCOTUS will feel when some grieving parent decides to ventilate one of these protestors? It will happen, it’s jsut a matter of the right time and place. Maybe the guy who ventilates someone was just confirming his right to bear arms. Or is that really just a different expression of free speech–like burning the flag is.
Yes, there is freedom of speech, but in my little pea brain, it is freedom of REASONABLE speech.
Have there been any Constitutional challenges to “hate” speech? I don’t know, it just seems to me that parading around a funeral with a sign that says “God hates fags” might go into that category. This whole issue is a struggle for me because I don’t like infringements on free speech, but the Westboros are being deliberately provocative and are only going to be emboldened by this ruling.
Am much as the WBC makes me cringe, this really is about free speech. I don’t think there should be a legal definition of hate speech, but since there is, perhaps it’s time to being back “fighting words” “Them’s fighting words” was once a legal defence for manslaughter. I jest of course. Free speech covers that which we agree with, as well as what we don’t agree with. From a legal perspective, I do think the SCOTUS got this right. But I always say, “your right to scream and waive your arms ends where my nose begins”.
I hope folks here understand that just because the words “Baptist” and “Church” appear in their title, these are representative of American Christians. they have been kicked out of all of the Baptist conventions, and the beliefs they espouse have no basis in scripture.
@Steve Thomas
Sadly, those who have agreed with the SCOTUS decision are correct. But I think that Steve’s point that, “your right to scream and waive your arms ends where my nose begins” is spot on. VFW National Commander Richard L. Eubank had this to say:
“The Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. thanks the Supreme Court for considering the case, but is greatly disappointed with the result. The Westboro Baptist Church may think they have won, but the VFW will continue to support community efforts to ensure no one hears their voice, because the right to free speech does not trump a family’s right to mourn in private.”
Between the VFW and various biker groups, these folks will be minimized. I just wonder if folks will protest any of WBC funerals.
I am a staunch believer in free speech and accept the SCOTUS decision; but I too have a very uncomfortable feeling about George’s warning in #14. I recall leaving military service in the late 1960’s and going to grad school on a campus aflame with anti-war sentiment and protests. Unfortunately, some of that protest was aimed at the troops themselves, even to the point of disdain, insult, and mockery. I can remember a few moments when I had to struggle so hard against an urge to punch some protester’s lights out.
It wasn’t the opposition to the war that got to me. It was the disrespect for the warfighters in the field and my having not long before been in a hospital full of young Marines, many maimed and scarred for life. I found myself actually having to go to Arlington with Mrs. W and just walk respectfully through the tombstones to get my temper back on an even keel. Today, if I was burying one of my own children after a death in war, I just don’t know whether I could handle a protest sign that said: “Pray For More Dead Soldiers.”
Some issues are not for the courts to handle. This is one for the motorcycle gangs to deal with.
Wolverine, I agree. I fear I would be violent. I think a funeral is more or less someone’s nose. I don’t fear someone will kill them. In fact, if I thought it was happening, I would turn my back so I didn’t witness it or have to help one of the sorry sons of bitches.
I think the SCOTUS got it wrong. Now Mr. Snyder has to pay those parasites $16,000 I believe. I would have given them a certain perimeter they had to stay beyond. They could have all the free speech they wanted, 1000 feet away.
I don’t see a conflict with protecting Free Speech and completely blocking hate mongers from a funeral rite. They can speak across town. If they can be seen or heard by the funeral attendees, they’re intruding. If it means that uninvited people can’t gather within earshot of funerals to sing love songs to the mourners either, then so be it. Put a BIG safety net around the funeral. I’ve stood across the street from the Phelps’s before. They are a hate-weapon and are firing on you if you’re in their range. It’s one thing (a really nasty thing) to be assaulted by them when you’re at an LGBT political gathering. It’s something else when they crash a funeral. It also seems to me that they commit libel.
Wolverine – I had a similar experience in 1968, but in France, of all places. Believe me, coming back from SE Asia to be in a student atmosphere in Paris was a real shock to the system.
The Westboro crowd are lunatics, plainly stated. The decision is correct. Unpleasant, mean, stupid speech is the price we pay for free speech. It’s futile to try to fine tune this right.
@Emma
I agree with your comment!
Isn’t there some kind of law against inciting?
Interesting. Justice Sam Alito was the 1 dissenting vote. I would have never guessed that one.
Alito was also the one dissenting vote in the “crush act” case. Last year the Court nullified the “Crush Act”, which banned the creation and sale of videos depicting animal mutilation and torture (including being tortured to death). Alito was the only one who thought the law should be upheld!!!!! I think a new bill was introduced and passed since then.
I agree with the ruling, just as I believe that you have a right to burn the flag as freed of speech. I also believe that if I see you doing it, I can put the burning flag out by rolling you over it.
So, yes, I agree with the ruling. I also believe that dueling should be legal……
Its interesting that in NYC, one can burn the flag legally because of 1st Amendment rights but you will be charged with the crime of incitement to riot. So, there could be an argument there. And since protesters have been “corralled” at earlier demonstrations, there is precedent, in my uninformed opinion, that they could be forced away from the funeral route/location.
I know that if it had happened at the cemetery at which I worked, I would have had them ejected because cemeteries are private property.
I never thought I would agree with Justice Alito but I sure do on this one.
Westboro Baptist [sic] are pigs. The certainly don’t belong in Arlington National Cemetery or any other place National cemetery. They defile those grounds.
I think flag burners are far better than westboro. Westboro represent the lowest of the low. Flag burners expect to have the crap beaten out of them. Westboro wimps wrap themselves in the flag and descrate our country all while laughing at our laws and ideals.