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| How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sharia? | ||||
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There have been many instances in our history where small groups of individuals have perpetrated heinous acts of violence, intended to instill fear in the public and our government. Some examples of these infamous acts of violence can be found by The Mafia, the Manson Family, Timothy McVeigh, Abortion Clinic bombings, Assassinations of Doctors, Columbine High School, Fort Hood Massacre, and most recently, the murderous rampage by Jared Lee Loughner.
Did we have have congressional hearings for all these horrible events? No!
In this nation, whenever the larger group is held responsible for the acts of a small minority, as Americans, we should feel compelled to reject blanket statements of culpability by mere association. Because Bernie Madoff was Jewish, as were several presidents of the some the too big to fail banks, at the heart of the financial disaster, should all Jews be held accountable?
I resoundingly reject such suppositions.
So do we let the idea of radicalized muslims just sit there in the room like an 800 pound gorilla?
I am not sure that having the hearings is a bad idea. Now, if it goes to extremes yes….but is it something that needs to be discussed? I would say probably. There sure is a lot of backlash for something that supposedly doesn’t exist.
With me, the jury is out. I am neutral at this point. Wait and see approach here.
Leave my Muslims alone!
Go after the terrorists.
How would you feel about about a hearing regarding radicalized christians who bomb clinics or murder doctors?
@Elena
Sure! Lets investigate any sort of violence and sedition! How many acts of terrorism has there been involving Christians? Especially Christians espousing Judeo-Christian ethos as a political system? How many are advocating the overthrow of the US?
Now, lets count the ones by Muslims……or more specifically, Islamists……
Pinko…..lets hope your Muslims don’t agree with the terrorists basing their attacks on…..Islam.
Face it. THERE IS an element in the US that wants to advance Sharia as a political system, increase the power of political Islam, and some that are willing to support violence in that cause. We are at war with the Islamists.
I would say that it is all in perception and presentation. My issue is that there are plenty of people who want to cause harm to this country, are muslims any different, I would say no. Given the large segment of mulsims in this country, King should be exploring WHY this country has been so effective in preventing the problems we have seen in England. It’s all about perception isn’t it. I guess I will also have to wait and see how these hearings are handled, right now, I am very wary.
Conspiracy theories abound, gotta love it! Guess what Cargo, there are also Christians who believe the bible should be our legal system, I had an indepth conversation with one of them, Gary Bauer, Focus on the Family.
@Cargosquid
“Pinko…..lets hope your Muslims don’t agree with the terrorists basing their attacks on…..Islam. ”
Mine don’t. The Muslims I have known want peace.
Thank you Elena! We are not at war with Islam. Fanatics come in all stripes. I even know some vegan ones who scare me. (I’m vegan.) This is a great article:
http://www.truth-out.org/peter-king-reactionary-rash-and-wrong68284
There are a couple of questions:
1. Is there muslim extremism in the United States?
2. Do we want to ignore it and not talk about it?
I do not think this is something we shouldn’t talk about. Hopefully Rep. King can hold respectful hearings that are aimed at behavior rather than an entire religion.
I am still withholding judgement. I don’t believe this is something we shouldnt talk about.
Wow Moon, this is one of those times where DC Doppler radar may be calling for freezing conditions in the underworld because I agree with you 100%. Are you trying to trick me somehow? This doesn’t feel right 🙂
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011842,00.html
My concern is demonstrated clearly in this Times cover story. King is playing into the fears of the evil Islam where people are terrified of Mosques being built in their communities. THAT is not an Amercian ideal.
Apparently even a good friend of Congressman Kings , Niall O’Dowd, finds great concern with his current tactics.
“I’ve known Peter King longer than I know any other politician in America. We have dined out together, traveled to Ireland together and been friends for close to a quarter century.”
“I’m glad to still call him friend, but hope he sees sense one of these days. Demonizing a group of people never works. It only leads to further fear, hate and suspicion.”
http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/periscope/congressman-peter-kings-strange-journey-from-irish-radical-to-muslim-inquisitor—-i-no-longer-recognize-the-politician-i-have-known-for-25-years-117570083.html
If he demonizes, then I will no longer be neutral. I just don’t like silencing concerns.
There are some concerns about radical islam in this country. My question: Do we not talk about it because it is not politically correct?
I have read articles where King articulates his concerns in context rather than bits and pieces. He made sense to me. Now if he stops making sense I will withdraw my air of neutrality on this issue.
Back to my two questions:
1. Is there muslim extremism in the United States?
2. Do we want to ignore it and not talk about it?
Those are my only points.
@Hello, scares me as much as it does you I guess.
There are all kinds of extremism in this country, why focus only on one is my question.
@Moon-howler
I’m sure there is Muslim extremism in the United States. There’s also white supremism, violent homophobia, misogyny and every other form of fanatical fear and hatred. We can talk about all of it. But this hearing is fear-mongering. King is an avowed proponent of racial profiling. All Muslims are suspect, which is bigotry.
Have you had personal interaction with anyone you suspected to be a radical Muslim? I haven’t. I live in a neighborhood with several mosques. Many vendors on my block are Muslim. I’ve never felt anything but good will from any of them. I’ve attended numerous inter-faith services and celebrations with Muslim people. I find that we share the same core spiritual beliefs. There are even LGBT Muslims. There are as many different types of people who practice Islam as there are who ascribe to Christianity or any other belief system. They don’t need to be singled out and demonized.
I HAVE had interaction with people who’ve displayed violent aggression against LGBT people, women or migrant people. I’ve known several transgender women who were murdered by bigoted extremists. I can’t count how many women I’ve known who’ve been raped. I do personally know 1 person who died as a result of terrorism, a member of my church who was a victim of 9/11.
The jury’s still out with me, but when I think about this I’m skeptical. I don’t think Islam correlates to extremism in the US more than feminism, being African-American, or a host of other things.
I have had personal interaction with muslims who were some of the nicest people you would ever want to meet and I have been in a situation that still gives me goosebumps to think about. There are good and bad people of all faiths and cultures.
I have not followed Rep King for very long, maybe a year or so. Perhaps he is not the person to hold a hearing if he is an avowed bigot. However, I do think there are questions that need addressing. Do we just ignore those questions, stick our heads in the sand, or talk about them? I think it is fairer to non-radical muslims to discuss. I absolutely do not think that the 800 lb gorilla in the room needs to fall victim to political correctness.
There are other issues and types of extremism that have been discussed and some issues that still need discussing. But right now, the topic is radicalized muslims, not other forms of extremism. Might as well start there. I am not ready to blow it off and say it isn’t important.
And BTO, I actually saw it first hand about 20 years ago. It really isn’t new. We also lived through the Northern VA sniper. That was fairly radical, in my opinion.
Rick, I don’t think being muslim means you are an extremist either. I hope I didn’t leave the impression that I thought that. And I agree that the jury is still out. I believe there are people living in the USA who believe in an extreme form of religion that is dark ages type religion and retribution–I do not think most muslims are any part of that. However, many of them are smart enough to be afraid of people who think and believe that stuff. I want to hear what those folks have to say.
Rick, do we have feminists who murder? Geez! I can understand wanting to, however. 👿
I don’t see anything wrong with these hearings as long as they are kept on a factual level. There’s nothing wrong with talking about these issues and concerns, and I’m hoping something of value comes from these hearings.
I was just sitting here thinking how much I hoped they would just be factual and that the right and left would both shut the hell up so I could learn something. Rep. King won’t be in there alone. Is it too much to hope for that none of them will be grandstanding? Don’t bother to answer. I think I already know the answer to that question. @Emma
I guess I feel that other forms of extremism are more prevalent.
In talking about extremist terrorism, I would say it’s a potent weapon that a very few people can hold over a great number of people. Its potency makes it seem that it’s more all-pervasive than it is. I don’t think there are countless hordes of extremist terrorists in this country. There definitely aren’t countless incidents of terrorist acts. Muslim communities have cooperated with authorities to disrupt potential violence as often as other communities have. People are far, far more likely to die at the hand of a drunk driver than a terrorist. But people are much more afraid of terrorists.
When we talk about other types of fanaticism, we condemn them. We try to educate people in tolerance and understanding. We are careful not to generalize. We rely on law enforcement and courts to deal with people who cross the line in their hatred of others. (Sometimes we just let hateful people harass innocent people, as in the case of the Phelps family.) We already have numerous agencies in this country charged with investigating terrorism. I’m sure there’s more man-power directed at that than at any other concern, and some of it at the expense of our personal freedom and privacy. In terms of actual hatred expressed by US citizens, there’s been more visible anti-Muslim hatred demonstrated (as occurred recently in Orange County, California) than radical Muslim sentiment.
PSSST! All the terrorists ARE Muslim!
Earlier today, the FBI arrested a suspect in the attempted terrorist bombing of a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in Spokane, Wash. Authorities say the sophisticated bomb – left in a backpack on a bench along the parade route – was a powerful device packed with shrapnel dipped in rat poison.
Our independent investigation has confirmed that the suspect was a member of the National Alliance, for years one of the most dangerous neo-Nazi hate groups in America and one of the groups tracked by our Intelligence Project.
National Alliance founder William Pierce was the author of The Turner Diaries, the race war novel that inspired the Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 men, women and children.
Above from SPLC
@BoyThreeOne
Not sure I agree on number. I see the problem starting with the fact that one word is being used: Muslim. I don’t believe that muslims are all alike any more than I believe all christians are alike. However, people use the word muslim generically. The same thing happens to mormons. They get all lumped together with polygamists when, in fact, the LDS church forbids such behavior by excommunication.
I don’t like it when people don’t talk about things. This seems like a good opportunity to finally get things out in the open. If we deny that there are any people who practice some form radical islamic terrorism, then we have allowed al qada types to use our laws against us.
How many people would be comfortable riding across the tarmac in a moon bus next to a woman in full muslim garb with a stroller full of packages and no child. Be honest. How many people would be comfortable? How many people would be uncomfortable questioning an airport attendant about this woman? How many people would put their child on a plain with this woman?
Should we be ashamed to talk about things like this? Many people are.
@Pinko, not sure I understand your point. Pierce is dead. I am all in favor of investigations into this kind of criminal behavior. I would put that under the topic of White Supremacists though. There are bunches of those.
@Moon-howler
I’m not sure what you want people to think about. I understand that many people have fearful notions about Islamic people who fit scary stereotypes, and talking about these fears is better than secretly harboring them and feeling ashamed. I don’t think it’s shameful to feel the fear. I just don’t think it’s always rational. I would guess that those of us posting the ardent pro-Muslim comments here wouldn’t be afraid to ride with the woman you described. Honestly. We wouldn’t deny that there ARE radical Muslim terrorists but simply wouldn’t think the woman on the bus was one. It isn’t denial or political-correctness. It’s just a different perspective.
@Moon-howler
I wouldnt be fearful. Would you be fearful stepping into an elevator with 3-4 twenty something black males? Funny how liberals are the biggest biggots around. Get over your fear of terrorism. You are much much much more likely to get hit by a bus.
Excellent points BTO! Thanks for sharing your personal experience.
bill maher on islam, cutting through all the bull, and saying what we all know is true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ocBSP_D940&feature=feedrec_grec_index
@BTO, for this area, the woman in full garb pushing the stroller was very out of place.
I don’t think many people would have gotten on that plane with their children. I rode what I call the moon buses across to one of the other terminals.
@e, leave it to Bill Maher to say what a lot of people think. I am getting ready to watch his entire expose on the subject. I* might have to post him except you have to rescue me from Elena if I do.
and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (john 8:32)
bill maher on the superiority of western values
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhvhNZC51gY
Pinko,
We only care about singling our muslims for terrorist acts I guess.
I care about any terrorists. I don’t care what they are. However, when looking at the majority of terrorist attacks or attempts….where do most of the breadcrumbs lead?
I can participate in discussion without hating or targetting all muslims. Emphasis radical muslim extremists.
In this country, there is no trail for breadcrumbs though. Violent acts have been perpetrated by lots of different nuts, that is where I differ. The VA Tech shootings, Jared Loughner, the list can go on and on. I just don’t see American Muslims as any more dangerous than any other group. Now, Muslims in Pakistan, that is a different story, I totally agree with that premise. In fact, much of what Bill Maher says regarding the young age of Islam I have said numerous times in the past. There was a time when people were arrested, tortured, and burned at the stake for heresy.
The “Hearing” today does not have one law enforcement representative, I am wondering how there can be a fact finding hearing without the critical people to tell you what, well, the facts are in the American Muslmim community and why this community poses a unique threat, so unique there needs to be a congressional hearing.
The hearings just began on cspan 3
The room is at capacity and there are many people still standing in the hall.
Peter King defends his decision:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030603598.html
Interesting article from the Daily Beast:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-10/how-peter-kings-muslim-hearings-help-the-terrorists/?om_rid=Nsfb$3&om_mid=_BNeNGIB8ZkSJcT
Elena, I do think there are trails of bread crumbs. The Ft. Hood shooter was influenced by hate speech from an American cleric hiding in Yemen.
Rep. Bob Ellison, a muslim american, was absolutely amazing before this faux “hearing”. Listening to him just reinforced why I am against this format.
Carl Bernstein also clarifed why having “congressional hearings” is absolutely the wrong place for serious investigation for this issue. In fact, he reminds us that there have been several commissions that have studied this very issue. Had there been some recent horrific attack, maybe this would make sense in some way, but the latest murderous rampage of innocent Americans by and American was Jared Lee Loughner. He also reminds us that too many “witch hunts” have been perpetrated by congress and that this panel is not about serious debate. Not ONE law enforcement officer?
Where are trails of bread crumbs for Loughner, Cho, Beltway snipers, multitude of public school shooting, there are lots of heinous acts that happen in this country, why does King only care about Muslims? Why not look into our mental health care system that can’t seem to identify and treat mentally ill people who also happen to be Americans.
This version is VERY different from what Carlos Bledsoe’s father shared today. He was not radicalized in an American Mosque.
“Muhammad’s father, Memphis businessman Melvin Bledsoe, told the Times that while his son may have been radicalized in Yemen, he believes his claims of ties to Al Qaeda are made up.
In a report prepared by its investigative staff that was released this week, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said there’s a growing trend of jailed American converts to Islam going to Yemen and becoming further radicalized:
Law enforcement and intelligence officials told the Committee staff in interviews in December in Yemen and other countries in the region that as many as 36 American ex-convicts arrived in Yemen in the past year, ostensibly to study Arabic. The officials said there are legitimate reasons for Americans and others to study and live in Yemen, but they said some of the Americans had disappeared and are suspected of having gone to Al Qaeda training camps in ungoverned portions of the impoverished country.”
La County Sherrif who is making my point exactly!
I like Baca a lot. He is a realist. I like Jasser also. Very much.
@Elena,, we have discussed Cho, Josh and all sorts of other acts of violence on here. That isn’t what we are talking about now. This is another issue. I think those who are actually talking are productive. The grandstanders are…grandstanding.
I found the hearing, primarily, very scarce in concrete facts, and the panel, hardly adequate to address the supposed serious threat that King has been espousing.
I saw quantitative facts in the beginning and anecdotal information in the middle. I lost interest while all the legislators were grandstanding and being blow hards. I had something else important here that came up so my information has big gaps in it. Life is never without complications.
The interviewed guest speakers seemed appreciative of the chance to speak out.
The jury is still out with me. I found the Republican legislators, for the most part, more concerned than the Democrats in the same role. That is very unusual for me.
Jesser said it all when he suggested going back to past era when this country was fighting communism. Not a stellar time in government going on political witch hunts.
Country doc, you obviously weren’t there and don’t know the time frame. It was an uncomfortable situation rather than being a fearful one. I wouldn’t have put my kids on a plane with her. It was just unusual.
Probably it would be better to come here and feel your way around before you started hanging labels on people.
I like the “do we have hearings on every terrible event” thing. No, but we do have them on college bowl games and steriods in baseball!
So are they over? What happens from here on out? Anything? If this was it, no harm. Lots of hoopla over not much in my opinion.
Other than typical political grandstanding, I thought most people handled themselves very well.
Maybe it is to the good that we take those sentiments which have been hanging around since 9/11 as an undercurrent and discuss them openly and honestly under a national spotlight. There have been a couple of times in the past 100 years when we did not do so and the results were not exactly laudable: German-Americans in 1917-1918; German-Americans and Japanese-Americans in 1941-1945.
Mrs. W’s paternal ancestors were German-American. Her great-great-grandfather, once a Prussian cavalry officer, emigrated to America in the late 1860’s, bringing her great-grandfather who was only 6. After 50 years of being good, hard-working, and naturalized Americans, they suddenly found themselves part of a widely despised ethnic group. One of the first jobs for the late J. Edgar Hoover, for instance, was to track down suspect German and German-American immigrants who might be spies. It got so bad that everything German began to be depised and even the contribution of German language and literature to our culture was denigrated and changed. Neighbors began spying on neighbors and accusing German-Americans of being spies based soley on an odd comment here and there. German-American immigrants were given orders to report for the filling in of locational and loyalty documents regardless of how long they had been in America and how long they had been legal, productive, and faithful citizens.
Perhaps if back then we had only been able to talk about it openly and on a wide scale, to discuss our fears and our denials, to come to some better understanding. We didn’t, and it got out of hand. A few years ago, a family member discovered the loyalty document filled out and sworn to in 1917 at the alien registration office by the great-great-grandfather. Here was a genealogical prize that would provide me with missing personal data. But, when I looked at the last page of the document, I discovered why some of the data on the previous pages was confusing me. The photograph affixed to that page and verifed with a government seal was a photograph of the great-grandfather, not the great-great-grandfather. They had names which varied only slightly. I found later that the family had been so terrified of the hue-and-cry after German immigrants that they feared the old gentleman, now in his dotage and still proud of his German heritage, might say something which would rebound against the entire family. So, the son went in his father’s place and pretended to be the father — at great personal risk to himself. That, my friends, is fear. Better, in my opinion, that we talk out this somewhat similar thing today in full view and with the greatest of honesty and candor. Just sayin’….