From the Atlanta Journal Constitution:

“”Showing the recklessness of the GOP’s budget, proposed cuts would gut funding for Hawaii’s tsunami warning system,” said Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ), joining Democrats in trying to tie GOP budget cuts to threats posed by the recent Japanese earthquake.

But if you go through the GOP budget cutting bill, you won’t find any mention of cuts in tsunami warning funding, or in the National Weather Service, which has also been getting a lot of media attention about budget cuts as well.

The cuts – which right now have no chance to get through the Senate – would be in the budget of NOAA, the parent organization to both the tsunami and weather forecasting organs.

The National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration would suffer a cut of 7% in its budget. If that was actually put into law, NOAA (and the Obama Administration) would be responsible for determining what gets cut, since the GOP did not detail what departments should get what amount of money.

If NOAA officials decided to cut across the board, then yes, there would be cuts to all parts of that department.

But that part of the story isn’t getting much play.

Pushing hard against the cuts in NOAA is the union that represents workers at the National Weather Service, which charges that Republicans “would set back weather forecasting decades.”

“Our organization firmly believes any effort to defund and dismantle our nation’s early warning system for all natural disasters is very unwise,” said union President Dan Sobien.

Sobien is doing what anyone organization might do in this situation, warn of deep cuts, layoffs, furloughs, degraded forecasts and equipment and raise the specter of people dying as a result.

Democrats are playing their role perfectly, eating up such information and putting it to use, skewering Republicans for their proposed cuts in the National Weather Service and for the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center.

But – as I wrote above – you can’t find anything specific

Ok, I have had enough with stupidity.  I am tired of people like Rep. Eric Cantor trying to out-conservative everyone else.  Any cuts to NOAA is a matter of public safety.  There have also been cuts to the National Geologic Survey, deep cuts.  What are these people thinking?   Do we really want to cut back  on storm warning systems?  Tsunami warnings?  Meanwhile we spend a billion or so a week on defense.  This IS defense!
In the current Newsweek , Simon Winchester reminds us:
All of those broken bones in northern Japan, all of those broken lives and those broken homes prompt us to remember what in calmer times we are invariably minded to forget: the most stern and chilling of mantras, which holds, quite simply, that mankind inhabits this earth subject to geological consent—which can be withdrawn at any time.

His article foretells of that which is inevitable–the United States is due for a major earthquake; specifically in the San Francisco area.  Historically, earthquakes seems to come in clusters.  So far, there have been huge earthquakes recently in New Zealand, Chili, and now Japan.  If geological history repeats itself, California needs to be on the lookout. 

According to Winchester:

All three phenomena involved more or less the same family of circum-Pacific fault lines and plate boundaries—and though there is still no hard scientific evidence to explain why, there is little doubt now that earthquakes do tend to occur in clusters: a significant event on one side of a major tectonic plate is often—not invariably, but often enough to be noticeable—followed some weeks or months later by another on the plate’s far side. It is as though the earth becomes like a great brass bell, which when struck by an enormous hammer blow on one side sets to vibrating and ringing from all over. Now there have been catastrophic events at three corners of the Pacific Plate—one in the northwest, on Friday; one in the southwest, last month; one in the southeast, last year.

That leaves just one corner unaffected—the northeast. And the fault line in the northeast of the Pacific Plate is the San Andreas Fault, underpinning the city of San Francisco.

I don’t need to feel the earth move to become a believer.

We need to contact our congress representatives and remind them that next time it might be us dodging the bullet.  One of the worst earthquakes in the history of earthquakes was in the United States–Alaska, 1964.  I have a friend who was in it and it was a 9.2.  Any efforts to weaken our defense against Mother Nature are simply careless, reckless,  stupid and irresponsible. 

 

59 Thoughts to “NOAA cuts endanger us all”

  1. e

    the atlanta urinal constipation doesn’t specify how it defines cuts: is there really a cut in the baseline budget, or is the gop merely advocating a cut in annual projected growth of noaa’s budget?
    let california sink into the pacific, it’s a lost cause anyway. and when yellowstone blows as a supervolcano, all the money in the world won’t stop north america from turning into an ashen dustbowl. man proposes but god disposes

    1. e, is there anything you find acceptable?

    2. @e

      And how about hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis? Any doubt that advanced warning saves thousands of lives? How about updated equipment? Think that helps at all? We don’t have enough bouys out there that detect tsunamis.

      The entire west coast, California, Oregon, Washington and Alaska are all in danger.

      You might be very right about Yellowstone but advanced warning cuts the losses. NOAA is public safety. That agency should never be cut.

  2. e

    sarah palin, goddess of alaska, heroine of the tea party, savior of america

  3. e

    winged victory of samothrace reborn

  4. Anonymous

    e – you are turning yourself into a blog troll. If you do not have something useful to contribute – go away.

  5. hello

    Ill see your “recklessness of the GOP’s budget” and raise you a “where the hell is our leader”? Oh yeah that’s right, with Japan destroyed, conflict all over the middle east and even Democrats begging for some sort of leadership with the budget from Obama he is yet again on the golf course working on his short game or filling out his NCAAP brackets. Two things he finds vastly more important than anything else going on in the world.

    It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

    Democrats saying “Obama has failed to lead”:
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/50857.html

  6. Anonymous, please choose a moniker. We welcome you. Anonymous gets confusing.

  7. You lie, I am so tired of hearing that. What is it exactly that you want the president to do? Did you have the same standard for the last president? Was he not allowed to ride his bike during times of crisis in other countries?

    That is such a weak, small minded argument. Maybe he should have flown to Chicago or Hawaii to show his support for Japan? This discussion bores me and has nothing to do with the thread.

  8. Rep. Cantor was on MOrning Joe a while ago defending himself. He said that several years ago NOAA had a bump and they are just taking half of it back. Guess that makes it alright?

  9. hello

    Moon, this is about the “reckless GOP budget” right? You seem to have avoided my question of where is Obama and his “leadership” with the budget? Did you even see or read the link I posted? It’s DEMOCRATS saying Obama has “failed to lead” on the budget. But lets not talk about that I suppose, lets just focus on the “reckless GOP budget”. No need for our leader to actually…. lead, right? He has better things to do, that NCAA bracket isn’t going to fill itself out.

    I personally have no issue with him golfing, matter of fact, I wish he were out golfing every day.

  10. hello

    “What is it exactly that you want the president to do?”, hmmm… maybe the same thing Democrats want him to do, actually lead on the budget. Or is that too much to ask for?

    1. @you lie

      You don’t speak for the Democrats. Let the Democrats do their own job of legislating. You have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Quite frankly, he is doing exactly the right thing by allowing the REpublicans to go on their stash and slash campaign. Once they finish trying to outdo each other, then is the time for him to step forward and clean up their mess. Don’t be a Naive Nellie.

  11. @you lie, no I didn’t read it.

    Did you read thread? Obviously not. It’s about cutting NOAA’s budget in the middle of a disaster.

    No one cares that you hate Obama. Go on an anti-Obama blog to spew your hatred.

  12. hello

    Funny, the only legislating Democrats seem to be any good at these days is running away and hiding as fast as they can from hard decisions or tough circumstances.

    So, the leader of the free world is doing “exactly the right thing” by not doing anything? Oh boy, that one almost made me spit my coffee out! Thanks for putting a smile on my face on this gloomy morning Moon. 🙂

  13. hello

    From the article:

    “Freshman Democrat Joe Manchin: Obama has ‘failed to lead’ on budget”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/50857.html#ixzz1Glnvzs7n

    So it looks like Democrats HATE Obama too huh?

  14. So, were we all in horrible danger in 2007? Were we a moment away from disaster? How about 2008?

    Cut spending back to 2008. Even then the president’s budget was in a deficit that even SENATOR Obama was criticizing. We have to cut somewhere. Let NOAA decided where the money is best spent.

    I mean we can’t cut SS. We can’t cut Medicare/Medicaid. We can’t cut NOAA. We can’t cut funding for Cowboy Poetry. We can’t cut funding to ACORN, Planned Parenthood, Obamacare, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Dept of Education, Energy, etc. They are ALL so important.

    So, if not there, where? I say cut across the board. Flat cut. As a beginning.

    1. Public safety should never be compromised. Planned Parenthood should not be cut either. You want to pay for all the unwanted children and the health problems that will ensue?

      Let’s have an intelligent conversation about budget cuts, not snidery. And I don’t give a rat’s ass if the president plays golf, does ranch work, rides a bike, bowls, shoots hoops or what. It is irrelevant. I don’t even care if he sleeps.

  15. Mando

    How much tsunami and earthquake warning can a trillion $’s buy you? Also, you forget asteroids. We are way overdue for a major asteroid strike yet spend little on prevention.

    1. And asteroids too are a problem. (and have been one)

      You can’t do jack about a tsumani but you can warn people to get out of harms way. There are also predictors of earthquakes in very rudimentary stages.

      For all of these things that NOAA handles, warnings systems that allow time to move people out of strike zones save lives.

  16. Pat.Herve

    SS and Medicare should not be a topic when talking about the budget – they are separate issues, and are funded with dedicated revenue streams (in Trusts). Although they both need tweaks, SS is funded right now until 2037, and is not adding to the deficit. Medicare is funded through 2029, and again, does not add to the budget. And yes, they need to be tweaked to insure solvency.

    On the budget – The proposed cuts is really low hanging fruit. How can one think they can solve the budget deficit without cutting the most expensive items? Beyond my mortgage, food is the most cost – I cannot go without food, but, I can cut the cost – I can eat out less, eat less steak, and more beans. The US needs to spend less on Military and other programs – DOD makes up 58% of the discretionary budget – anyone trying to balance a budget without touching dod is not being truthful to the situation. Where is all the ‘Waste, Fraud and Abuse’ cuts we heard about during the campaign, also, where is the scalpel. On a good note, unemployment claims are reducing which should reduce that spend. In this political environment, it is hard for anyone to lead – each side is waiting for the other to blink – Boehner can’t propose the cuts, and Obama does not want the political fight.

  17. Social Security is broke.
    http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/08/09/not_in_25_years_social_security_is_bankrupt_now_98611.html
    It’s paying out more than it is taking in.

    And Medicare and SS should be considered part of the budget. When you factor in all tax revenue, domestic entitlements, including SS and Medicare take up all spending. All other spending is borrowed.

    Social Security and Medicare taxes are sent into the general fund. Both programs are paid from the general fund. They are part of the problem and need to be reformed.

  18. Raymond Beverage

    A 7% cut in a $5.5Billion dollar budget…a little over $5million at a rough calculation. Let’s start with their vehicle fleet – for a Fed Agency so worried about the air & water, they have resisted for years converting to natural gas powered vehicles. Convert and reduce fuel costs would be a big savings.

    Ah, but not us also not forget “paperless government” – I was there when it was instituted almost two decades ago, and yet it is still “so many trees, so little time” and yet even with the progress of desktop media and publishing, lots of paper printed. I get amused whenever you see a picture of a NOAA Command Center, or when during Hurricane Season the Weather Channel flips to a NOAA office and you see all the paper around.

    Two areas where some of that 7% reduction could be implemented.

  19. You know what. Again. This is nonsense. Fine. Keep spending. NO cuts. We’ll be fine. I’m done. Social Security and Medicare don’t matter. Safety is paramount. Cowboy poetry is desperately needed to inspire the young to become poets.

    Nothing should be cut. Its ALL desperately needed and necessary for life as we know it. Nothing should ever be weaned off of government money. Lets just go with single payer while we’re at. And the government can supply all the housing, schooling, food, and medical care. Lets add to the Constitution like that idiot, Jesse Jackson, Jr. wants. Screw it.

    Start learning chinese.

  20. Juturna

    I think the only cuts we’re hearing about are all domestic. If cuts to CPB were addressed in conjuction with cuts to Iraq, Israel and most of the Middle East, I’d listen. It still doesn’t sound like a fiscal exercise to me – it smacks of politics. All I’ve seen on the table besides Medicare and Social Security are collective bargaining rights and CPS.

  21. Juturna

    This country puts far too much money into schools – administrators and facilities that we get in return. Time to wake up, face facts and have those 15 and older sign a contract that they will: respect staff and faculty and do their assignments. Otherwise, get a job, deal drugs or find another country. Then everyone would have the same mission – academics.

    Someone mentioned how much of their income/taxes were going toward welfare – public schools are our biggest welfare centers.

    1. Are you suggesting that education is a priviledge rather than a right after a certain age? How far down the road to those people start collecting welfare who don’t get an education? How soon before we put them in prison and pay for them there?

      Taking money out of schools doesn’t solve those kinds of problems. The highest ticket items are special ed kids, for the record.

  22. Mando

    Throwing money at schools doesn’t solve the problem either. Take the DC school system for instance. Their cost per student is the highest in the nation. If it were that easy, the DC school system should be pumping out Ivy Leaguers.

    Any public sector “institution” has one goal and that’s to secure more funding. Regardless of effectiveness. You let that get out of control and you get the DC public school system.

  23. Juturna

    Keeping them in isn’t helping either – they don’t want to be there so they pull from those that do. So do we ALL go down the tubes? And, yes, I do think education, free education, is a privlage at all ages not a right. Maybe if that were the persepective we’d have better outcomes.

    Who says they should go on welfare? Welfare was designed to be and should be a ‘leg up’ not a solution. I’ve worked, it feels like forever, so why should SS be chipped away before welfare if we’re going to stick to domestic cuts.

  24. hello

    @Cargosquid

    Don’t you know that when it comes to Social Security being broke and unsustainable entitlement spending this is always the approach from the left? Seems to work every time for some reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnjaUoR15dU

  25. @e
    Wow, e, you really need to see someone about that depression!

  26. Cato the Elder

    Well said, Juturna. Like anything else, an education means more if you have to pay for it in blood, sweat and tears.

  27. Juturna

    Thank you Cato – it’s gone on far too long – it’s enabling at this point. It’s not a failure of the teachers, although so many of the really good ones almost feel that way. I would like to see a resurgence of technical schools here. Many really good kids need a skill that will get them out of where they are first. Then they can return to school on their own. And a very high percent of trade school grads will. They either go to work for the really big guys like Lockheed, UT, Prat, Trane or start their own business/franchise – so they need that education. That will help them more than being placed in an AP History class. Nice idea and well meaning but simply not practical.

  28. Juturna

    So, back to the topic. NOAA before Iraq? I ask you…….

  29. Mando

    Supply will meet demand. I don’t think it’s so much of a lack of trade schools but a lack of something else. A sense of entitlement is pervasive in this day and age. When it comes to schools, I think the lack-off has most to do with parenting.

  30. SlowpokeRodriguez

    NOAA cuts endanger us all…..that wasn’t supposed to be funny I’m guessing?
    Someone please protect me and my cousins in Arkansas and Oklahoma from Tsunamis, please!
    @ hello, “Where is our leader?” He’s planning a vacation to Rio, last I heard. What do we want him to do? Just what he is doing, thank you very much!

  31. @hello
    You lie, how about writing a letter to the social security administration and taking a pledge that you will not pull yours when the time comes. After you have done that, then you can let up on the rest of us who plan on pulling it.

  32. Slow, for crying out loud. They have thunderstorms and tornados in Arkansas and Oklahoma. Who do you think oversees those types of disasters and warnings?

    Covering the sun to the seas, the National Weather Service provides local and regional forecasts, and emergency alerts for severe storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, extreme heat, winter storms, fire threats, tsunamis and solar flares. From its national centers to its 122 Weather Forecast Offices and 13 River Forecast Centers, the National Weather Service is watching over the nation and your neighborhood

    .

    http://www.noaa.gov/wx.html

    I am cross and impatient today. The atmosphere impacts everyone.

  33. Juturna

    Should government be needed when TECPCO/KOCH built a nuclear power plant at Lake Jackson and it melts down even Slow and Mando won’t be able to get enough fast enough from the govt….. and even then they’ll complain while getting help. After years in my line of work, I recognize the type easily….

  34. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    Slow, for crying out loud. They have thunderstorms and tornados in Arkansas and Oklahoma. Who do you think oversees those types of disasters and warnings?
    I am cross and impatient today. The atmosphere impacts everyone.

    Hmmm, the funding cut here seems to be not for thunderstorms and tornadoes, but specifically for earthquake and tsunami stuff for Mexifornia. This should absolutely be cut, as the best thing for all involved would be for Mexifornia to break off and sink into the ocean. Sounds like a smart cut to me!

  35. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Juturna :
    Should government be needed when TECPCO/KOCH built a nuclear power plant at Lake Jackson and it melts down even Slow and Mando won’t be able to get enough fast enough from the govt….. and even then they’ll complain while getting help. After years in my line of work, I recognize the type easily….

    I’ll make you a deal, Einstein! When a 9.0 earthquake or a tsunami hits that place, I’ll eat my words! How’s that!?

  36. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Y’all would have been better off arguing for the Cowboy Poetry Festivals.

  37. Juturna

    Einstein – gee not so many know my nickname 🙂 I’m as positive as you are.

  38. The funding for NOAA is for the entire agency. Remember Katrina?

    What does a solar flare do to all those satellites up there?

    Go read your cowboy poetry, country mouse. Don’t let a meteor hit you up side the head.

  39. Juturna

    What is the resistance to thinking about cutting some non-domestic items????

  40. What is the resistance to major cuts? Across the board.

    We have a 1+ trillion dollar deficit and a 14 + trillion dollar debt. Last month’s deficit was total to 2007’s deficit. We are broke. The debt has increase by 4 trillion since Obama took office and signed Pelosi’s 2009 fiscal year budget that she did not present to Bush.

    The cuts being bandied about right now in Congress equates to rounding errors on today’s deficit and debt. Neither party is serious and they want to play politics with national survival.

    1. @Cargo
      Stop protecting the very wealthy. Why are their tax rates frozen at 28%? Do you support pulling troops out of the middle east now? When people get millions, lets just go up to Clinton rates. I think 50% is too high.

      I am totally sick of this falling on the middle class. Remember 400 people own half the wealth of this country.

  41. Juturna

    What is the resistance to non-domestic cuts ?

  42. Pat.Herve

    cargo – The cuts being bandied about right now in Congress equates to rounding errors on today’s deficit and debt. Neither party is serious and they want to play politics with national survival.

    Exactly – they have there sacred cows that they want to protect. Instead of raising the income tax on large earners, say 1%, they want to cut Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood supplies much needed medical care at reasonable (sometimes free) prices to the needy – yes, antibiotics and contraceptives. The very group that will now, possibly, show in in a maternity ward because of no contraceptives – talk about cost creep.

    Boehner and team can only come up with only $61Billion in cuts – all this talk of Waste, Fraud and Abuse – and only $61 Billion. If McConnell’s number one priority was getting the economy moving, instead of making Obama a one term President, we might have more traction. And who do I blame – I blame Congress – we have been in deficit spending since Carter – http://zfacts.com/p/1170.html – what about the Bush tax cuts – you start two wars, and you cut taxes? When has that been done in history – let the wealthy keep more money, while the soldiers are shipping out? Next time Congress is asked to authorize the US to go into a conflict, there should be a tax bill with it to cover the costs – I think they would think twice if it cost them more politically. Many of those wealthy people do not even earn their money – look at the CEO’s of GM, Chrysler, AIG, Wachovia, Merryl, etc – did they earn their money – no way, but they not only got tax cuts, they got big bonus’s and severance packages. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/oct/30/6 Why do we reward those that fail? I do not begrudge someone making over a Million a year – good luck to him – but those same people were doing ok under the tax code during the Clinton years and before.

    Another sacred cow is the tax code – neither side wants to touch it. And, that is not even talking about all the 1099 employees, er consultants, on the payroll through private contractors (another large loophole in the tax code).

  43. @Slowpoke Rodriguez
    I wish I could get federal funding for my Manassas based poetry.

  44. @Pat.Herve
    What we have is a spending problem, not a taxation problem. That said, our entire tax structure needs to be reformed and simplified. We need to have incentives to keep business in country. We need to make it popular to start businesses here.

    I agree that we should not reward those that fail. What a business does in pay and reward is their business and their money. We should not be bailing them out for bad decisions. Wages have been flat. Why? Could it be that we have imported, both legally and illegally, too much labor? You speak about starting two wars…its one war, thank you….two theaters. And we didn’t start it.
    That said, even with the war, our deficits then were in the 200-400 billion dollar range.

    Last month’s deficit equaled the total of 2007. Spending problem, not tax problem.

    And the “problem” that too few people own too much of the nation’s wealth. When has that been different? What’s the “proper” ratio? Yes, I want more people to become rich. That’s the ideal. But our tax code and regulatory code restricts that ability.

    Will increasing taxes change that ratio? Will higher taxes make more people rich? The problem is that too many, now, become rich because of political connections. Lessen the power of the politician and you fix that problem.

  45. How about fewer people being poor? How about middle class wages not being stagnant. The real wealth in the country has been at the top. That is where the excesses have been.

    Cargo, why do you keep defending the multimillionaires? Do you have a rich uncle in bad health?

  46. I’m not defending multimillionaires.

    I’m defending the capitalist system. All of your ideas about taxation won’t increase one dime of one person’s salary. All your taxation won’t improve the economy one bit

    The top few get ever more richer because there is no limit to their earnings. There’s no cap. Until recently, billionaires were few and far between, usually sheiks. Then Bill Gates happened. A good economy, which we had, will make people rich, especially those not locked into an hourly wage.

    Flat wages can be caused by many things, but usually to much labor supply. Hmmmmm, how many immigrants do we have? Illegal and legal. I’m sorry, not immigrants…guest workers.

    Also, with our tax and regulatory burden and high labor costs in industry, the jobs will be outsourced. As I said, we need tax and regulatory reform and right to work laws in all 50 states. We need a business friendly climate. NOT a “pro-business” climate, one that sides with business over the citizen, like Enron and Goldman Sachs, but a fair and inexpensive business environment.

    Either flat tax for all, with streamlined regulations, a national sales tax instead of income tax, no corporate income tax because no corporation actually pays it – we pay it. Lets think out of the box of tax more, spend more.

  47. I guess we have two different ideas about capitalism also. We obviously don’t have a pure capitalist society.

    And yes, you are going to bat for the millionaires. Perhaps you just don’t see that is what you are doing.

  48. @Cargo, I also left off that Bill Gates has been around most of my adult life. He is what? 56 years old and he was a kid genius. Let’s give him at least 30 years of being at least a millionaire. He surely isn’t the only one out there with CEOs making 5 million, 10 million, etc.

    It’s easier to go for the low hanging fruit, the public employees.

  49. The state governments biggest expenditures are pensions and medical pensions for retirees. Its so bad that most pensions are underfunded. So Walker wants to take THAT part off of the table. Nothing is preventing the teachers from collective bargaining on salary. They can even increase the salary if they can get both sides to agree.

    He has to take those future payments into account with budgets. Taxing millionaires will not do a single thing to help those teachers. Look at New York and California. They are broke. New York City gets 50% of its taxes from about 40,000 people due to high taxation on high earners, about 1% of the population. So, if you raise taxes on people already paying the lion’s share, what happens?

    Personally, I think a flat tax of 12%-18% on EVERYONE is more fair. Start it on all income over an arbitrary poverty level. And then cut spending. Historically, our government takes in about 18% of GDP. Don’t spend more than that and we have a balance budget.

    1. @CArgo,
      I don’t think Virginia has any medical pensions. Most states don’t. I believe the medical parts of pensions were mostly with private pensions like the auto workers. Do you have any documentation that Wisconsin is over-burdened with medical pensions from public employees?

      Taxing millionaires does take some of the heat off of the little guy. 18% is going to cripple someone making $25k a lot more than its going to cripple the aveage person making twice that much.

      I do think your plan for a flat tax should work well on social security taxes.

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