Sadly, this behavior ois what many of us have been talking about. This man came to make a statement, not to seek information. He kept everyone else from learning the process because he felt he and what he had to say was more important than anyone else in the room.
When Rep. Moran attempted to explain and answer his rather absurd questions, the man tried to talk over him and interrupt. Did Moran let his Irish show? Yup. And I don’t really blame him. ‘Caustic remarks’ is actually downplaying the rudeness of the remarks made to the congressman.
Rep. Moran has taken some heat from Faux News and other sources over his response. Naturally, the video was truncated on Faux News and the viewer did not get to see his patient explanation. The audience called it right. They told the man to sit down or leave. His intent was to disrupt.
Time for non-Democrats to stop whining over Moran. The man in the audience got what he deserved…almost. Our senators and congressmen are not whipping boys. They don’t have to take constituent abuse. There is never an excuse for bad manners. The people in the audience wanted to know how the government closing would impact them. They didn’t come there to have their time wasted.
Don’t agree. The man is a constituent who was very upset and came to give the congressman an earful of that discontent. He did not shout. He did not make a fuss. He simply told Moran how he felt and how he saw it. There is no “rule” that says you must come to such meetings and just drink in the stuff spewed out by an elected official without challenging him. Moreover, Moran has such a quick temper and an ego to match that he does not know how to play into the discontent of another and soothe it with carefully chosen words and inflection. Moran is full of himself and tends too often to show hostility right off the bat. The use of “caustic” was a tactical error by someone who ought to have known better in a delicate situation. This is a congressmen without tact. Don’t ask me to take his side. He has a long history of the nasties, even to his fellow members on the Hill.
Wolverine, do you deny he interrupted and tried to talk over the congressman?
It shouldn’t matter if we like or dislike an elected official. We can certainly take issue with them, or their policies but we should at least give them a chance to answer.
I would never treat Corey Stewart that way. I may disagree with most of his policies but that doesn’t give me the right to be publically rude to him.
That guy’s behaving like a dick. The audience clearly did not appreciate the man’s behavior either. He got what was coming to him.
The sublime eloquence of the left!
Well, Moran certainly came off great in the media on this one! Har-dee-Har-Har!!
@Moon-howler
We have absolutely every right to be rude to Corey Stewart and any member of Congress–especially to Congress after that shit they pulled last week. Whether being rude is useful or not is another question. It would probably not be, but we as constituents have the right to spout off and express our anger, and I will not give up that right. It’s called freedom of fucking speech and all those bullshitting politicians can stick their hypocrisy up their collective asses after the way they treat those of us who voted them into office to make necessary changes that will help US, not THEM.
How many times has Congress and our local government betrayed us??? They are damn lucky we aren’t taking our anger to the streets in a violent way. YET. I will not be one of those people, but someone, somewhere will eventually do it because these politicians have pissed off so many people. People need to express their anger somehow, and if this is the worst way they do it, we should consider ourselves lucky.
Of course he interrupted Moron. Congressman Moran just had to de-legitimize that constituents concerns by insulting that man’s concerns. That statement that he would make himself available to people with caustic comments AS WELL AS PEOPLE WITH LEGITIMATE CONCERNS was insulting in the extreme. Moron was doing SO well, but he had to denigrate that constituent. Your statement that he was just there to make a statement and not ask a question is wrong. And the reaction to that question was positive. Now, when he continued, yes….someone in the crowd objected. I feel that the man was provoked. Actually, he was quite polite. I would have been incensed enough to be truly “impolite.”
So, a constituent expresses his concerns, is insulted by his representative, objects, and HE’S the rude one, not the arrogant politician?
Ok, then.
Starry, your opinion on Moran is right on! That is such an accurate portrayal that I applaud you.
Cargo is right! I too applaud Starry here for telling it like it is on Moran’s behavior. What a dick.
It seems to me that the guy wanted to blame Moran. Moran explained that the House Repubs set the agenda and that he (Moran) could get back to DC quickly. Maybe Moran shouldn’t have labelled the remarks caustic, but the guy’s “question” was more of a diatribe than query.
Every public meeting I’ve ever attended always has a blowhard or two. How they’re handled can make or break a meeting. Sometimes Robert’s Rules can save the day, but at a meeting like this one that probably isn’t appropriate. I applaud Moran for not letting the meeting be hijacked. We saw too much of that prior to the last federal election.
The guy didn’t come to ask a question, he came to blast Moran. Now why on earth would you ask a person why they were there at a town hall meeting rather than at Congress fixing things.
This was the typical behavior we saw summer before last when I began forming my opinion of the tea party. Frankly, the behavior kept me from learning what I needed to know abouut the health care proposals.
I don’t think rudeness is ever the answer and it is just an attempt to seize control. There were lots of people there from the sounds of things that were in attendance to get information.
The meeting had a specific purpose. It wasn’t to ‘share our feelings.’
I agree Censcored. I would add, there were many people that were about to go unpaid if the government shut down, in addition to military families. In reality, we saw in the end, it was all about those self serving riders for the culture warriors. This guy should have been directing his comments to those in congress who were hell bent on shutting down government over clean water and birth control. I can understand frustration with how government is unable to coherently work, but to immediately go into “attack” was not a productive way to engage the congressman. I don’t know that I would have labeled his remarks caustic, probably combative would have been more appropriate.
I think that the constituent was blaming Moran as a representative of Congress as a whole. Besides, Moran is part of the problem. Why didn’t he work on getting a budget passed BEFORE this? Pelosi’s minions did this twice. They didn’t pass a budget in the 2009 fiscal year and they didn’t do it in the 2010 fiscal year. The Democrats put their agenda ahead of everything. Nothing prevented them from passing a budget prior to the new Congress taking over, especially AFTER the election was over. THEN it would not have been politically charged. They could have presented it to Obama at any time.
Its because of people like Moran that we are in this mess. He’s an arrogant, petty, coward that hides behind the fact that the CURRENT House is GOP run. What’s his excuse for the last TWO years and that spending?
Btw, there seems to be a lot of concern about rude town halls, usually when its at the expense of Democrats? Where’s the concern when riots break out, entire government buildings are occupied, businesses are intimidated, and citizens threatened by those on the left?
Cargosquid, I’ve witnessed a local meeting or two where thugs screamed over other participants despite R’s Rules, frightened older people into not attending future meetings which related to the subject being discussed, and prevented material/info about the subject from being dispersed. A second meeting had to be attended by the County Attorney, our BOCS rep, Public Works reps, and a videographer to keep it under control. My tires were pinned after this meeting and another person’s lug nuts were removed from her tires. Eff thugs! I despise dealing with them.
Agreed. ALL thugs are despicable.
But this guy did not act like a thug and to liken him to such is wrong.
@Cargo
Who said he was a thug? I said he was rude. I will add another comment. His rudeness made what could have been a decent question unproductive because he felt the need to show Moran how pissed off he was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA
@Cargosquid
Be specific about where these things happened. I can’t generally address bad things Democrats do. I am speaking only of town hall meetings.
There is nothing inappropriate about expressing feelings at a public meeting. If that were the case, we wouldn’t have allowed people at county meetings to cry at the podium, say irate, insensible things (like comparing immigrants to the 9-11 terrorists) or plead the case of the poor.
Remember when our PWC friend was thrown out of a county meeting because he was deemed “rude” but everyone here applauded him?
It’s not a crime to be rude or emotional. In some cases, it’s what is needed. The policies that are made and the way they are carried out produce strong emotions and our leaders need to understand that, particularly when you get a real thug who attacks people’s property of personhood. Better to have rude people than violent/threatening ones like the ones we have seen in this county, the ones our BOCS gave tremendous power to.
If I sounds harsh, emotional and unforgiving, it’s because I AM.
Who is our PWC friend that was thrown out of a meeting? I don’t claim anyone as a friend who would be that rude. @Pinko
I am just not sure I understand why being rude gets a person further than being polite and making solid points.
What did Mr.Vet (or so he said) really want to know? Could he have waited for Moran to answer his question before going in to defense mode? How much time does one individual get in a townhall when others are waiting to ask questions?
Censored is right. There is always one blow hard at every meeting.
@Cato the Elder
LOL! I am SOOOO using that for replies.
@Moon-howler
I’ll start doing that. If I start linking to the Wisconsin thuggishness, there’ll be enough links to keep in moderation for a long time.
And, of course, they’ll be coming from conservative links…as so, because they’re not independently confirmed by liberal links, suspect.
Just don’t put three in the same comment. How about one and a brief description of what is being shown.
Was there a townhall meeting in Madison? I thought those were just demonstrations? How do you know those involved were Democrats? They could be independents like me. I don’t approve of drowning out people trying to speak in a formal or informal setting. I don’t approve of deliberate property destruction.
He did wait until Moran answered. And then Moran insulted him. I would have told Moran to go eff himself and walked out.
I don’t understand why you aren’t upset at a representative who was so insulting to a constituent and said that his concerns weren’t legitimate. Moran had answered him and quite well, I think. THEN he had to continue and tried to make the vet look bad. Moran decided that he didn’t like being held accountable for HIS actions so he decided to be petty.
Duh, the letter next to his name (D)? Geez, just when I thought people were catching on…
Let me explain, if there is a D next to an elected officials name DO NOT expect this type of behavior (to a vet no less) to be acknowledged let along pointed out. Your just wasting your breath (key strokes). Just give up, ain’t gonna happen.
@DC
You don’t see anything wrong with the supposed vet’s behavior? Do you think that is the most productive way to ask a question or find out information? Do you think that is the most productive way to address others? Vet talked to Moran like he was a wastral and sitting on his ass having a town hall meeting. He was uninformed about the process which is fine, but then listen when someone attempts to give the information.
He was there to show what he knew rather than to find out what Rep. Moran knew.
I don’t give a good damn if he was a vet or not. Being a vet doesn’t make you God. I say that as the daughter and niece of vets.
Agree with Moon on this.
The fact that a person is a “vet” does not excuse boorish and rude behavior. It seemed like the racous tea party “hearings” from a couple of years ago, when armed guards were necessary in some cases and people were yelling at the speaker and each other.
This man was given his alotted time, and more, to state his opinion. When Moran tried to answer, he started drowning out Moran’s answer. No wonder Moran asked him to sit down!
I think punchak and others would agree that if Walker had done the same with the WI protestors they would be defending Gov. Walker for the union’s boorish and rude behavior.
@punchak
“When Moran tried to answer, he started drowning out Moran’s answer.”
Incorrect. He let Moran answer. And then Moran insulted him by calling him caustic and then stating that his concerns were illegitimate.
THEN, he interrupted him. Moran was upset because he got interrupted during his diatribe and someone dared to defend himself against insult.
And as for those armed guards…funny how all the violence came from the leftist thugs invited BY THE POLITICIANS to stack the audience and crowd out the constituents.
The guy was long-winded, but not especially boorish. Seems to me that both Moran and some in the audience labeled this guy as a patrtisan troublemaker and attacked him.
He LET Moran answer? Perhaps that is the problem-the use of the word LET. He interrupted Moran half way through his explanation. Moran wasn’t giving a diatribe, he was answering a long winded question.
As for Walker, you are comparing apples and oranges. You are describing 2 different types of ventue. If Moran has a town hall meeting, you are his guest. If Jackson Miller has a telephone town hall meeting, I am his guest.
@marin–Keep Scott Walker out of this. It doesn’t even compare. You can’t compare Boehner to Walker.
And for the record, if Walker had a town hall meeting I wouldnt expect him to be treated rudely. I am not saying walker is right by any stretch…I just wouldn’t prove it by interrupting him and shouting him down.
And for that matter, I am no huge fan of Jim Moran. He has his flaws. However, I back him on this.
@Moon-howler
I think the guy’s name was Wills whom our beloved chair tossed out because he deemed his constituent rude.
Let’s look at the rude guy speaking to Moran. He’s a vet. Guess how many vets were going to be unpaid if there was a shutdown? Do you have any idea how man trainings were cancelled because of this bull shit? Are you aware that reservists who are supposed to have training twice a month had theirs CANCELLED?? I don’t care which member of Congress was getting an earful at this point. They all deserve it.
You’re concerned about my phrasing, “he let”? Ok. Fine. The vet was quiet while Moran answered until Moran insulted him and belittled his concerns. And you, apparently, are fine with the idea that Moran should belittle constituents’ concerns that hold him and the rest of Congress accountable for their collective stupidity. Your concern is that the vet interrupted Moran while Moran was insulting him.
And no. The constituents are not “guests”. A town hall meeting is an employer/employee meeting where the employee has to explain his actions. If Moran can’t handle the heat, then he needs to resign and let someone willing to do the job take his place.
@Cargo, I don’t feel he insulted him.
The ‘vet’ insulted him by implying that Moran was sitting on his ass conducting a town hall meeting instead of getting to work and fixing the budget.
You and I have a different idea about townhall meetings, obviously. If you are correct, then why can an elected official have someone removed? Why can they only let in ticket holders if they so choose? Elected officials are not our whipping boys and girls. Basically it is just all about good manners. There isn’t enough of that in this world.
Rep. Moran never said that Mr. Vet was who made caustic comments or who had legitimate concerns. That was a general statement.
I listened for the fifth time. I understand why he was concerned. I don’t understand why he went postal on Moran. He was obviously annoying the other town hall participants. Moran even thanked him for his service.
As for the word ‘let’, I think you have to be female to understand why that expression is repressive.
I went to a town hall meeting with Tom Davis. I was polite, I even complimented him at the outset of my comment/question. My concerns about torture were direct, no question, but I did not treat him direspectfully although I was frustrated with part of his answer and I told him so. I did not directly blame him, but was hoping for real leadership and pointed out John McCain as a model on this subject.
This constituent has every right to be frustrated, but when Moran attemped to explain why he wasn’t working every moment of every second, the man became rude. He did not want to hear an anwser that did not fit the one he already had in his head.
I disagree with the premise that they ALL deserved it. The Dems compromised more than ANY republican minority ever did when the Dems were in control. THAT is why there was no budget passed when the dems held both houses, the republicans said NO/threat of fillibuster to EVERY proposal they made. The budget hit an impass over the riders, not the “meat” of the bill. I might add, that riders were the very issue republicans heatedly complained about when they were in the minority.
Neither are our local leaders, but then some get a pretty good whipping here I’d say, hmmmmmm?
“Rep. Moran never said that Mr. Vet was who made caustic comments or who had legitimate concerns. That was a general statement.”
Oh come on, now you sound like Bill Clinton, and who exactly do you think Mr. Moran was referring to? You know damn well he was responding to the vet, and a lot of people applauded the vet after he spoke, but then I guess that went unnoticed.
@SA Moran spoke generically. Had he turned around, pointed, and said YOU then perhaps Mr. Vet would have a gripe. Perhaps. To me he simply seems like someone who can dish it out but can’t take it.
This thread is very amusing and telling.
Mr. Moran just doesn’t have the polish and ability that Gov. Christie has.
http://youtu.be/yuri7p_9pm4
I will have to think about that one….Moran and Christie….Somehow neither one conjures up an image of polish. Abillity….first we would have to define what we mean by ability.
Christie wins in the humility department. When did Christie become part of this discussion? Christie doesn’t come across the same as Walker. I don’t really see how he can be compared to Moran.
@Elena
Elena, Congress as a whole is responsible for irresponsible behavior. They could have tabled part of their disagreements enough to avoid a shutdown. The 11th hour decision was nothing more than partisan politics at work, and I blame both sides.
Do you have any idea how much this possible shut down cost us all? Employees spent days if not full weeks having to plan and rearrange schedules, send memos, hold emergency meetings, work with payroll etc. And threatening to refuse pay to people who are fighting for us overseas? No, I am not forgiving of either side, nor am I patient. I am so tired of politics getting in the way of our basic needs and generating disrespect for constituents.
Our Congress is a disgrace. They make our country appear weak and disorganized. Terrorists thrive on things like this.
@Second Alamo
Our local leaders on too many occasions deserve the “whippings.” Especially two of them disregard and insult constituents. They get personal with concerned, angry people who worry about BOCS irresponsible policy–except when it behooves them to align themselves with angry people who advance their campaigns. Read, “They align themselves with nativists, racists and hate groups” without trying to find better solutions that won’t tear the communities apart. They have no problem inciting division. Stewart seeks a seat in Congress. He’s an expert at divisive, irresponsible policy making.
@pinko, I don’t think we can say the entire congress is disgraceful. I would say that those trying to close down planned parenthood and pbs are disgraceful because those are ideological bugaboos of theirs and have little to do with sensible budget cutting.
You do bring up a good point and that is how much money making alternative plans cost the government and private industry. That point has been overlooked. I hope the plans are saved. It will happen again.
A lot of pissing into the wind by both participants. The guy speaking came loaded for bear and obviously doesn’t have a clue how congress works. But I do have to say that Jim Moran’s comment about “caustic remarks” and his offhandedly waving in the direction of the man who had just spoken was wrong. It also seemed that in attempting to explain how congress ALLEGEDLY works, Moran did seem to be talking down to the man. Then when the veteran jumped back in, it reminded me of some of the Tea Party shows during last year’s runup to the election. Forgotten in all of this is that we are the people who elected that bunch of clowns we call a congress. There is plenty of blame to go around as to who did what with which to whom as far as a budget not getting passed.
@Moon-howler
Oh, so only the conservatives are disgraceful for attempting to live up to their principles, but, the entire congress, whose primary jobs are to protect American interests and
manage the budget for the government, and failed in both jobs, they’re not disgraceful. You have politicians playing politics with troop payments, but that’s not disgraceful. You have Congressmen lying to us about major bills and lying to us about the costs associated with their bills, but they’re not disgraceful. You have a Congress willing to give up its authority to the President, without a whimper, as long as THEY are not held accountable, but they’re not disgraceful.
Only those trying to kill funding for Planned Parenthood.
OK, then.
How about this? We keep Planned Parenthood and kill every other liberal boondoggle. I’d settle for that.
And I didn’t say that either.
“I don’t think we can say the entire congress is disgraceful. I would say that those trying to close down planned parenthood and pbs are disgraceful…”
Really? So how should I take this?
And “because those are ideological bugaboos of theirs and have little to do with sensible budget cutting.”
So, since these programs, cutting which would save millions, are sacrosanct, and are also ideological bugaboos of the left and therefor have little to do with the left’s perception of sensible budget cutting, and the left gave no alternatives to cut….those people that use ideological bugaboos that you agree with…they’re not disgraceful.
Only, those that have conservative bugaboos.
As I said…..what else am I to believe?
I didn’t say anything about living up to principles. If you must quote me, feel free but don’t make up stuff I didn’t say.
Tell me why you are against people having contraception. Do not say the word abortion. I am tired of that lie. the govt. doesn’t pay for abortion.
If it is against your principles for people to use contraception, tough crap. It is not against mine and this is not a theocracy. Rather than singling out an individual organization, totally do away with Title X, legislatively. (and watch the court cases come rolling in). Then get out your checkbooks to pay for all the children people have because contraception is no longer available.
And I cannot think of a single principle the PBS violates on anyone other that decent programming. And I don’t want to hear we can’t afford it. Yes we can. If we can’t afford it then we close all museums and national parks and live like a third world country.
So, again, conservative principles don’t matter. And, it is about abortion. Planned Parenthood’s business is abortion. They make money from it. And conservatives in Congress don’t want to fund the company. Especially since they fund Democrats. As for PBS, conservatives don’t like the heavy liberal editorial slant that they have while their tax money goes to it.
I didn’t make up anything that you said. I said that’s how your statement came across. You called conservatives disgraceful because they were cutting a budget according to THEIR principles and that Congress as a whole, other than the conservatives, is not disgraceful.
And no, I’m not against contraception. I’m against the freaking government paying for every blasted thing. We ARE a third world country. WE HAVE NO MONEY. We are borrowing 42% of the budget. The part that’s paid for is Medicare/Medicaid, Soc. Security, and other related things.
Why are we automatically going to have to pay for all these children? Don’t they have parents? Are there so many people unable to fend for themselves that we must support them? Are there so many people so poor that they can’t buy freaking rubbers that we must subsidize their pills. iuds, etc? Why do the poor get that deal? Why not everybody?
You know why not? Because we can’t afford it.
Like I said, what should we cut in place of YOUR ideological bugaboos?
Planned Parenthood is a non-profit. It’s business is NOT abortion. Only the PAC funds democrats and pro choice Republicans.
How about let’s pay the oil subsidy game. I don’t want my tax dollars going to subsidize the oil business. They give to Republicans. I don’t like that. The oil business funds Republicans.
I called the Republicans who are trying to do away with PBS and Planned Parenthood disgraceful and I did it without apology.
What is the liberal slant that is shown on PBS? THIS I have to hear. The only thing I can think of is black, brown and white kids playing together. Surely it isn’t that.
During the past century this country developed a series of safety nets where we cared for children in particular, as well as people who are unable to care for themselves. Are you ready to cut off milk for babies and mothers? Food subsidies for poor families and kids? Regardless of how worthless their parents might be, the kids have to eat and have food and shelter. These things cost money.
The smart thing is to make sure people who aren’t financially able to have kids don’t. Contraception isn’t cheap. BC pills cost $30-50 bucks a month.
I am sorry if you can’t understand this. Maybe you were out of country when the great revelation should have come to you.
One stealth bomber would probably finance all the things I think are important. Just say no to one stealth. I would rather prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place than have people get abortions or have children they aren’t going to be able to feed and cloth. It just seems more moral to me. Its also much cheaper in the long run since so many people want to wave the fiscally responsible flag these days. Perhaps I am really the one with the conservative values.
Just noticed…they WEREN’T singling out PP. They were cutting Title X.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/02/09/gop-spending-plan-x-ing-out-title-x-family-planning-funds/
Just had a thought that would satisfy your desire to retain Title X and it would defund tax money going to the nation’s largest abortion provider.
Turn it into a voucher program. Instead of funding the PROVIDERS, provide funds to the CUSTOMER and let THEM decide how best to pay for it.
@Cargo
Actually that is pretty much what happens. Let’s pretend a medicaid card is a voucher. The patient presents the medicaid card and Planned Parenthood is reimbursed. The good thing about Planned Parenthood is that it does take medicaid patients. Many places don’t. Their costs are also reasonable.
The only reason Planned Parenthood is the nation’s largest abortion provider is because it is in so many states. That is a false statistic, however. In any given city, private clinics might actually provide many more abortions. However, if PP is in 45 states…do the math.
Asking be about big oil doesn’t work on me. I don’t want subsidies going out either. Remember, I want it ALL on the table and Congress to act like adults and prioritize.
See, you know what to do. You want to save Title X by not funding a Stealth bomber.
That’s how it works.
Congress needs to do that and do it in front of the CSPAN cameras.
I’m just saying that, just because YOUR “bugaboo” is in danger, does not make the ones trying to cut it “disgraceful.” Well, not for that. They fall into the whole “They’re members of Congress, America’s only criminal class.”
As for the PBS thing, I’m lumping it into that whole NPR thing. The directing board and editorial oversight is hugely liberal. See the beginning of Camillus’s post for a perfect example. Don’t get me wrong, I would not want a conservative public broadcaster either. It should be strenously neutral.
But, again, we’re back to that whole prioritize the spending thing. You’re willing to cut elsewhere to keep it. That’s how it works.