Every once in a while it’s good to step back and look at what is really being said and by whom. 

A friend sent me a link  that I think bears watching.  First off, I am not a resident of the City of Manassas.  I have friends and relatives there and generally I try to stay out of their business.  However, every once in a while something comes along that is so egregious that it needs comment.

Apparently the Manassas Tea Party has decided to wage war on the Manassas City Council.  They decry increases for services:

Gas and food prices are soaring.  Electric, sewer, trash pickup and water rates are all going up.  As citizens, our first step in these dire financial times is to tighten our own belts and we naturally expect our government officials to follow suit. But look no further than our own Manassas City Council to find a government entity uninterested in reducing the burden on its citizens.

Services go up for everyone, including municipal government.   Isn’t trash service part of City services?  These costs will be passed along to the resident.  The City isn’t your parent, Tea Party People.  You have to foot some of this cost. 

Here are additional complaints:

2012 Increases
Electric & Sewer:  INCREASE! +5%
Garbage:  INCREASE! +4%
Fire Levy:  INCREASE! +13%
Water: INCREASE! +2%
Business License Tax:  INCREASE!
Cigarette Tax: $.10/pack increase

Residential Property Tax Rate:  INCREASE!  +3.1%

The cigarette tax is ridiculous to complain about.  Is it possible to live without cigarettes?   Sure.  What it isn’t possible to live without is modern fire equipment when a neighborhood is threatened.  Last fall multiple houses caught fire and several were destroyed in Sumner Lake.  Had it not been for more modern equipment from surrounding jurisdictions, half of Sumner Lake could have easily been lost.  The City needs new equipment.  It needs to add paid firefighters.  There aren’t enough volunteers.  Responsible City leaders want to correct this deficit. 

The tax rate is not necessarily a sign of a tax increase.  What is the housing assessment?  Those 2 figures must be used in conjunction.  If your house value is severely depressed, that tax rate can go fairly high without a significant tax increase.  Even if taxes are increased a little, that’s life.  There is no free lunch. 

When cigarettes and business licenses increase,, the homeowners are protected from tax increases.  Electricity, sewer garbage, and water are all services that increase with normal inflation.  These costs are passed on to the consumer. 

I can’t think of any jurisdiction that needs to add more police officers than the City of Manassas.  Wasn’t it Delegate Jackson Miller who told the press that his ” City was in flames?”  Wasn’t there a triple murder in Georgetown South?  Wasn’t there a high school student murdered on the way home?  Weren’t there several students robbed coming home from school?  Haven’t there been bank robberies in both the City and the county on the western end?  Adding 4 additional officers makes us all safer, since I don’t believe crooks stop to look at boundaries. 

Finally, the punch line:

Even if you’re not a resident of the City, please come out and show your support for No More Taxes.  Help your neighbors in Manassas and let them know we will fight them.  If you are in Prince William County, know that we will be there for you if the Board of Supervisors tries to raise your taxes!!

The tax rate for PWC has been set.  It  decreased but…most people’s real estates went up because of the increased assessment values.  I don’t recall any pitchforks and torches.  It seems to me that this whining and complaining is all for show.  Both the city and the county have cut back to bare bones in past years.  In both cases employees are being asked to do not only their jobs but the jobs of others.  They are working longer and harder.  The county employees haven’t had a raise in several years.  I don’t expect salary increases have been forthcoming for the city employees either.  Moreemployees  need to be added. 

Let’s be sensible.  I believe you all are saying ‘Taxed Enough Already’ just because it is something to say.  You haven’t really looked at things that closely.  Time for the new kids on the block to get over themselves and start looking at the reality of the situation.   Most of all, if you truly believe you are right instead of just moving your mouths, you wouldn’t  be calling in folks who really have nothing to do with City Budget. 

The Manassas City Council has a reputation for being responsible with citizen money.  They might just be in the position to see what is needed and where. 

UPDATE:

Please see Andy H’s comments below for a correction on the percents offered by the Manassas Tea Party.

47 Thoughts to “Manassas Tea Party Call to Arms?”

  1. People seem to be forgetting that gas prices are continuing to rise rapidly, which means any service that requires vehicles (first response, public safety, trash, busing, etc.) will cost more.

    Now think of all the services that use oil.

    Now think of how the rise in oil related costs sucks the money out of funding we might have had for services that do not require oil.

    Now re-think those complaints.

  2. IVAN

    Mark Aveni for emperor. Let’s not foreget people, there are three seats on the city council up for election next May. This is just posturing.

  3. Need to Know

    Moon, as you, I’m willing to pay taxes for services I truly need and use, such as fire and police protection, and education for our children. However, I think a lot of the frustration on the part of the Manassas Tea Party is the overall frivolous nature of government spending. See this link to the Manassas Tea Party web site:

    http://www.manassasteaparty.org/index.php?limitstart=2

    My head boils everytime I see Mark Wolfe fleecing Manassas and Prince William County taxpayers. Last year, he picked about $60,000 from PWC taxpayers’ pockets in addition to those in Manassas, mostly to subsidize the dance school he and his wife own. Why does the Manassas City Council and the PWC Board of Supervisors keep pi**ing away our money like that?

    My guess is that if the nonsense and the lining of the pockets of friends and campaign contributors stopped Tea Party people and everyone else would not feel so abused by public spending for needed and worthy purposes. Moreover, spending by fire and police departments, and other universally accepted uses of public monies should be scrutinized carefully by the public. Neither the Manassas nor Prince William County Governments have reputations for being very transparent.

    I’m not a member of the Manassas or Prince William County Tea Party, but sympathize with them on taxpayer abuse.

  4. Censored bybvbl

    TPers are just a bunch of whiners who want something for nothing. What they want their taxes spent on is important. What you want your tax dollars spent on is frivolous.

    I support the arts. I think they’re important to a society. I don’t want crumbling infrastructure, an uneducated populace, bland surroundings, hit-or-miss fire/police protection, little parkland. We’re a suburb of a major metropolitan area, let’s act like it. The City of Manassas may have small town charm, but its got to attract those who have more cosmopolitan taste and deeper pockets if it expects to prosper in a major city’s suburbs.

  5. Andy H

    I’ll only offer a correction of one of the numbers up there: the residential taxes will go up 1%, not 3%. The overall change (commercial & residential) in the property tax rate in manassas will be -.7%

    BPOL taxes went up 1 cent but we cut them 2 cents a couple years ago to provide some relief to commercial property owners.

    The final budget presentation clears up many of these questions, I’ll see if it isn’t on the city website somewhere.

  6. Andy H

    ugggg. I’m talking about Property tax *bills* above….

  7. @Need to Know

    The issue of Manassas Ballet was not even on the list of things they were complaining about.

    @Andy H

    I will make a note in the post to see your comments.

  8. Cindy B

    Thanks for the link to the party page, Need to Know. I see that one of the rules to become a member is that “You will responsibly and respectfully engage in public dialog regarding relevant issues.”

    Thanks to the link to the proposed budget, Andy. I met with neighborhood leaders from Sumner Lake, Point of Woods and Weems last night. A police officer stopped in to answer questions. Our consensus was, we need those additional police officers, especially the crime prevention specialist who will be the liaison with the neighborhood watches. The money you spend on bringing your police up to the right level, and on crime prevention pays in the long run. I think if tea party members talked with the police chief, they’d have a better understanding of the best use of their money. It always costs more to build up after you’ve stripped something away, or hire after you’ve laid off. You’re investing, not just paying. As owners of businesses and/or homes, city residents should be aware of that.

    My understanding is, a $10K table at a gala is really $10K going directly to support arts groups that have Manassas City residents as participants. The arts centers (Candy Factory & Hylton) attract economic development, as does the university. We are fortunate to be in close proximity and I think we get a lot more out of them than we get back. Any time there’s a free event, I take advantage and get my taxes worth. There’s a Family Day coming up at the Hylton on May 1 from 1 to 5 pm that will feature many local school groups.

    Whining always looks bad, especially from the dias. Stacking the city chambers with county bodies? The only time I’ve gone to the BOCS is to complement them on the Neighborhood Services Division, and how open and welcoming they’ve been to city neighborhood residents who want to learn more.

    Dang, Moon, for a county resident, you did a good assessment on this city issue.

  9. Need to Know

    @Moon-howler

    Moon, it is. Look at the third bullet point on the page I linked.

    1. It isn’t on their call to arms flyer over the Manassas Council budget. The one you linked is in March.
      http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0cea24288a9c5dfa926f1dd0a&id=d812abf76b

  10. Casual Observer

    @Cindy B

    Cindy,
    In all seriousness, have you ever considered running? You have so much to offer! The City could really benefit from your clarity and ability to make your points without rancor or animosity. You have the unique ability to consider all viewpoints with an open mind. If I didn’t live in the County, I’d vote for you. Heck, I wish you DID live in the County!

  11. Need to Know

    @Cindy B

    Cindy, I used to support arts funding and the “Community Performing Arts Center” strongly until I came to understand how the funding works.

    The Arts Center was sold to taxpayers as a “Community” center that would host local performing arts groups and be accessible to all families. In Prince William County, taxpayers were told our contribution would be $1.5 million annually for debt service. That’s now up to $1.9 million plus another at least $200,000 annually Peacor threw in the budget. Moreover, it’s no longer the “Community” but the “Hylton” Performing Arts Center, most programs feature performers from out of our community and only more well-heeled members of the community can afford to attend, even though everyone’s tax money goes to support it.

    The arts grants process is a sham, benefitting only well-connected and influential people like Wolfe. Numerous blog posts over the past year or so have pointed out that a review of Manassas Ballet’s Form 990s (tax returns for non-profit organizations and available to the public) show that most of the revenue they receive is from their dance school that competes with private schools in the area, rather than the ballet performances. That higher reported revenue is the basis of Manassas Ballet receiving the largest chunk of grants money of all performing arts groups in the County budget – about $60,000 last year. The grants panel even funds some groups don’t meet its own criteria for eligibility.

    It’s all a rip-off of taxpayer money.

    You wrote, “The arts centers (Candy Factory & Hylton) attract economic development.” I used to believe that also. However, please name one business that located in Manassas or Prince William County because of either of those institutions, or one that didn’t locate here prior to their existence because the community did not have such facilities.

    In fact, they play no role whatsoever in economic development. Businesses are looking for low taxes, I’ll repeat, low taxes, as well as good infrastructure such as roads, and the resources they need, such as an educated work force.

    Spartanburg, South Carolina built an arts center in 2007 – 15 years after BMW located there in 1992. Mercedes located in Tuscaloosa, Alabama in 1993. Tuscaloosa has an amphitheater somewhat like Jiffy Lube Live, but still no performing arts center. Lockheed, Micron, etc. all decided to locate in our community whether we had a performing arts center or not.

    Let’s get the fluff and waste out of the Manassas City and Prince William County budgets, so the taxpayers will support roads, schools and public safety, and businesses will locate here for low taxes and bring their jobs with them. The Arts Center and the Ballet are great. However, let those who attend and use them pay for them.

  12. Censored bybvbl

    Need to Know, an educated work force moves to an area because of its amenities as well as its low tax rate. You don’t think that people who are tops in their fields flock to NYC or DC because of their low taxes. Those businesses you mentioned moved to the South because of its cheap, non-union labor. Perhaps they made available funds for the arts or entertainment that weren’t there prior. I think people in this area have higher salaries and higher expectations when it comes to cultural attractions.Maybe the Hylton art center has had to intice nationally known acts to remain viable. I don’t find that a bad thing.

  13. Steve Randolph

    Note that water, sewer, and electric are part of the Manassas Utilities
    Enterprise Fund that operates like a business and is self-supporting,
    funded by charges for use and not taxes. Owned by Manassas,
    it is non-profit and focused on quality and reliable service at the lowest cost
    for the citizens of Manassas. Our electric and water rates are lower than
    our nearest neighbors while sewer is slightly higher because federal regulations
    require our discharge go the state-of-the-art-and-expensive UOSA treatment plant
    (MP and part of PWC are under the same mandate). Cost go up for numerous
    reasons including wholesale cost of electricity and federal/state requirements
    such as improvements at the damn. Trash pick-up fees increased due to the
    increase in fuel cost. Citizens need all of these services from someone,
    and Manassas provides them at the lowest reasonable rate. The utility system
    clearly provides great value and service to our community.

  14. @Steve Randolph

    Thanks you for filling in the holes I left gaping.

  15. Not born yesterday

    Why no mention of the $88,000 for a new policeman to patrol Lake Manassas and keep the Lake closed to the public?

    The City Council recently rejected $100,000 from the state to build infrastructure and a developers offer to donate free land for a public access point. This deal would have cost the City $16,000 but Councilmen said this was waaay too much, they just could not justify the expenditure.

    But now they suddenly have $88,000 to invest in keeping the Lake closed to the public? What’s up with that???

  16. I have a bad taste in my mouth over the performing arts center. I think PWC got left holding the bag. There is little out there for the average joe and it is expensive. On the other hand…that might not be a bad thing.

    @NTK, I don’t think that there is much fluff at all in either budget.

    We have employees working double time as it is.

  17. Dan Cooper

    At least it was a good thing that the local Tea Party didn’t have a 14 year old girl speaking at any public event. For some reason that seems to bring out the best in the left, showing how they are taking the lead in ‘a new tone of civility’.

    14 year old girl gets booed and yelled at (called a “fu**ing brat”) by anti-Tea Party protesters, you know, the ones who cry about ‘tone’ in this country: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fung-brat-protester-screams-profanity-at-14-year-old-tea-party-speaker/

  18. Need to Know

    @Censored bybvbl

    I know some people who graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill. The university has a well-known planetarium on one end of the campus. One of their running jokes was that we better build one on this end also to be fair to the students who live there so they won’t have such a long walk to see planetarium shows.

    All of those performing arts attractions are available in the DC area, Kennedy Center, etc., without duplicating them in PWC and bilking the taxpayers.

    Censored, even you said that BMW and Mercedes chose locations in the south for the cheap labor. That statement goes right along with my point about low taxes. Businesses locate where the resources they need are available, and production costs (labor, taxes, etc.) are lowest. They do not choose a location because it has a hometown ballet.

    I do not oppose having the Hylton Center in PWC at all. I’ll probably take my family to see some performances there, even though we haven’t gone yet (money’s tight these days). My only point is that taxpayers should not be expected to subsidize it.

    Those people with the high salaries and high expectations you mentioned are welcome to spend as much of their own money as they choose attending as many performances as they want. However, can you look directly in the face of a middle class family with kids who want to go to college, parents struggling to stay afloat financially, and a house that’s underwater on the mortgage and tell them that they should pay more in taxes so some attorneys, managers or doctors can save some money on their tickets to attend performances of nationally-known acts at the Hylton Center, or to subsidize Mark Wolfe’s dance school that, by the way, they can’t afford to send their kids to?

    As regular Moonhowlings readers know, I’m an avowed Republican who posts on this blog even though it has a reputation for being somewhat liberal leaning. Why am I the one here arguing that poor and middle-class families should not be paying taxes to support entertainment for those who are already well-to-do?

  19. Cindy B

    The economic range of the people volunteering, attending and performing in these resident art group productions is widespread. Just one example: CAPAC. They’ve been working since 2002 to bring cultural diversity into the local arts scene, and their members are county and city residents, young and old, and rich, poor and just paying the bills like you and me. When I first saw their group perform in 2006 it was in the tiny auditorium of one of the oldest city elementary schools. They did the “Life of Jennie Dean” and blew me away it was so good. CAPAC even took it on the road to Harpers Ferry and performed it as part of a commemorative event of the Niagara Movement. Now, on April 30, for $15, you can see CAPAC perform “Shakin’ the Mess Outta Misery” on a REAL stage at the Hylton Center. Also the diversity they sought — it’s come to them. Just take a look at the upcoming events calendar at the Hylton Center.

  20. Raymond Beverage

    Moon, my compliments on your assessment. I got that TP’er notice and had to laugh – mimics the speech made and reflects not listening one bit to that fine presentation by Andy Harrover where he explained each of the nuiances. Folks who are up in arms ought to watch the replay available in the Media Center on the City website.

    But Let’s look at that oh so terrible tax increase:

    First off, not one word out of the voices in the wilderness that property values went up…and by a big chunck. I watched my value drop on a 10,333 sq ft house, 1400 sq ft split level 4BR, 2 1/2 Bath go from the ridiculius “Fair Market Value” of almost $500,000 to last year of the more accurate $199,500.

    This year, the land value remained the same as last year, but because of the change from just “Building” to “Building Improvements” in the assessment, it shot up to $226,000! That is a bigger shock to me than the small raise in the real estate rate & one cent more of fire levy. Note the words “building improvements” – translates under “Fair Market Value” to if my neighbors upgrade kitchens, add new windows, and all the stuff under City-required permits, that goes into the Master Database, and when the average is done – even without my doing anything – the “Fair Market Value” for similar homes go up.

    So where is the TP’er cry over a rapid increase in RE Value??? Now for the tax rate – I sat down and figured out it is an additional $108 dollars a year. That works out to $9 a month! What do I cut each month??? Figured it was one six-pack and two bottles of Sam Adams Lager a month. When I told this to Cindy B, she was thinking shoes….ah, the difference between men and women.

    For any TP’er cruising this blog, there are some hard, true resource management based conservative intepretation of that tax rate. By the way, as an old Boy Scout, the abbreviation “TP” means “toliet paper” – which is the value of their flyer if you print it out!

  21. Raymond Beverage

    @Not born yesterday

    NBY, the Police Officer has been patrolling the dam, water plant and lake for years. It is NOT directly related to keeping the lake closed. Security of public water facilities became a major security requirement by the Feds to the States to the Locals after 9/11.

    As noted above, the rate increases in water and sewer are directly rated to Federal requirements. The City might choose to fight a local issue, but when it comes to the Feds or the State, they may opt for a fight, but are smart enough to know when to fold and not to do it.

    That Officer position, by the way, is paid out of the Water Fund as noticed in the budget documents. It is a one-year restricted position. As someone who is proud of the quality and safety of the water produced by the City, I lean toward having it and paying for the security of the plant.

  22. Raymond Beverage

    Moon, when you mentioned the speeches around GTS and the attacks on the High School kids, least we forget one other public outcry for more cops:

    The great rally over KK’s and SOBs and other evil dens that will cause secondary effects/affects where crime will go up. More cops, more cops!

    How soon some forget what they shouted for while out in the wilderness.

  23. Need to Know

    @Cindy B

    Cindy, again, I do not oppose the Hylton Center in any way. I’m glad it’s here. The group and performance you described sound wonderful and would be a great experience. Anyone who would find enjoyment and fullfillment in attending that performance should go. Just don’t send me the bill for any part of your ticket when I’m trying to support a family, pay a mortgage, and get ready to send kids to college.

  24. @Raymond

    Snicker. I kindly left that out so as to not step on anyone’s sensibilities.

    I just think that flyer was mantra and sound byte without any thought going in to it.

    The City has dealt with some very serious issues that past year. That fire makes me shudder every time I short cut through there. When I look at how close those homes are, I just think how lucky they were that there are surrounding fire departments with some diverse equipment. I believe one of their issues was not being able to get an adequate water supply? Correct me if I am wrong.

  25. I hate to be a snob but…..when we speak of BMW and Mercedes, the clients who drive the cars are not going to be going to the assembly lines. I expect auto workers for BMW are probably not a bit more sophisticated and elegant than Ford workers.

    Companies that have mostly professional workers are going to be looking at the good schools, libraries, museums, and the culture of the area. They aren’t going to move those people down to bum-______ anywhere.

    I don’t care if the Hylton’s want to donate their millions towards a performing arts center. Lord knows they made enough off this county. However, I don’t want to have to pick up the tab for that after they didn’t pull through with their end of the deal. I have heard so many stories on that one that I don’t really know which is correct. Let’s change the name of the facility to Taxpayer Center for Performing Arts.

  26. Need to Know

    @Moon-howler

    Here, Here!!! Bravo!!! Excellent Suggestion!!!!

    1. And I don’t mind picking up the wino taxpayer tab for the deal but I sure don’t want to name if after someone other than those who foot the bill.

      I guess I am just one of those people in the county who associates the name of that family with ‘sprawl.’

  27. Censored bybvbl

    Need to Know, my walking partner and her husband routinely take advantage of cheap performances at the Hylton Center. I’ll give the same advice that I give to people who routinely complain about where their taxes go – take advantage of your libraries, art centers, parks, etc. They offer a way to recoup your tax dollars.

    I find the Hylton Center to be convenient. It has become such a pain in the butt to see anything at the Kennedy Center or Wolf Trap on a week day evening that my spouse and I usually book a hotel in Tysons to avoid the drive home afterwards. That, of course, just adds to the cost of our entertainment. I’m glad to see something closer.

  28. Raymond Beverage

    @Moon-howler

    Ah, Moon, don’t worry about people’s sensibilities…LOL…the sensible ones here would join in the snicker.

    The water supply thing at Sumner Lake is one of those things not correctly reported by the local fishwrap. There was plenty of water, it was more the issue of getting the water on the fires – those hoses got heavy and with the houses so close together, the firefighters had a tough time dragging them around to fight. All the radio chatter about raising and lowering hose pressure gave the impression there was lack of water pressure from the hydrants.

  29. Strange that no tea partiers came by to defend the flyer that is floating around.

    I would think at least one or two would drop by to justify their reasoning. Perhaps there is no reasoning?

  30. I was against the city contributing public dollars to the building of the Hylton center, mostly because I didn’t buy the argument that it was going to be this huge economic boon to Old Town. The ingress and egress routes did not support this argument, as it’s too easy to pop back on 66 and head back to Fairfax, then ride up 28 through the city.

    What’s really got my dander up is the fact that the County has announced plans to build a “Town Center” out at innovationprincewilliam, chock full of dining and retail establishments. So the City shells out all this money with the idea that old town would reap the benefits, and now they will have to compete with a town-center…with no town.

    I enjoy the arts. I’ve been known to take Mrs. T to National Theater, Kennedy Center or Wolf Trap. I am no cultural Philistine. I’ve been to the Hylton Center once. Nice place. But checking the line-up of future performances, I was disappointed. “All this money, for this?” I have no desire to see what’s being offerred. Yes, it’s nice that the local symphony and other performing arts groups have a top-notch facility to perform in, but really? Ok. The money is spent/comitted. But to heap insult on the Citizens of Manassas, who entered the agreement with the County and GMU in good faith, with the promise of economic benefits, learn that the county has plans to use it’s superior geographic location to leverage the retail dollars of those who do choose to attend the performance of the National Symphony Orchestra of Khazakstan.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am not mad at the county. The county gov is beholden to the county residents. If they have a way to better leverage the economic potential of the center, they should. No, I am dissappointed at those within the City Government who didn’t listen when we less-geographically challenged citizens said “Don’t do this. Folks don’t want to detour out of their way to go to Okras or Carmello’s, before or after a show. Nissan (now Jiffy Lube) should prove that folks will enter and exit via the bypass, and will not come into Manassas City.”

    That center would have been built, with or without City financial support. Do the citizens get a discount on their tickets? At least that would soften the blow. The City pays the county a tidy sum, for access to the library system. I am a big fan of the library, and can access it without any addidtional transactional costs, over an above the City tax contribution. That’s value to me. I can attend “movies on the lawn” at the Manassas Museum, and other recreational opportunities paid for in whole or in part, by my tax dollars. No so with the Hylton Center. To me, this was a tax-payer boondoggle.

    1. And how is Innovation Prince William working out for everyone? Innovation to No-where?

      And my hands will fall off if I don’t comment on what a totally gross name Jiffy Lube is for an outdoor venue. I guess I can’t blame the county for that though.

      I find the entire idea of Nissan/Jiffy Lube ridiculous. No one can get to it at concert time. What idiot thought that one up. Did they not know about rush hour?

  31. Cindy B

    Thankfully, city officials are doing their jobs, looking at the big picture. The city is more than just old town. The link between the Hylton Center is more than restaurant/performance. The town center at the university is nothing new. As taxpayers, we invest in our children’s future, the same way the taxpayers in the city for the last 40 years (as of 2015) invested in us.

    There’s a free concert tonight at 7:30 pm at the Hylton Center featuring “The President’s Own” U.S. Marine Band. Pick up free tickets at the box office – they’ve been handing them out since noon.

  32. Need to Know

    No one is saying that the Hylton (Taxpayers) Performing Arts Center is bad, or that they do not offer some nice events. The problem is coming to all taxpayers for a huge chunk of money to pay for something that benefits only a small slice of the community. As I wrote yesterday, the intitial price tag to the County was $1.5 million annually for debt service (60% of the total), which has grown another at least $600,000 annually for more debt and other things. Moreover, neither the City nor the County owns or controls any part of the Center. It belongs to George Mason University and we have to go begging to get access for our schools to use it. Botton line – Gerhart and Peacor, who negotiated this deal, got snookered on our behalf.

    I welcome the Center to the extend that it can function on revenues that it generates and on private/corporate support that it can raise. There are lots of things that would be nice to have but are just not needed. This is one of them. It’s here, it’s a taxpayer boondoggle, and we need to make the best of it we can. That means cutting off any more taxpayer money and letting them offer whatever they can on funds they generate themselves. And, by the way, they don’t have to worry about property taxes because they are exempt.

    If they want more money from Manassas City or Prince William County taxpayers, I suggest that they go directly to those familes struggling to support and educate their kids, and pay their mortgage, and ask for it directly.

    Cindy, nothing is free. The U.S. Marine Band sounds like a great concert for which they are not charging admission to those who attend. All taxpayers in Manassas and Prince William County have already helped pay most of the cost of that concert. What percent of the citizens will actually benefit from what their tax dollars bought? A better idea would have been to charge admission that covers the cost of the performance so that those who enjoy it pay for it.

    1. On the other hand, if people don’t go out to the concerts, especially the inexpensive ones, it goes to waste.

      Where are the events advertised? Would better advertizing bring out more people?

  33. Cindy B

    I wouldn’t call it a “small slice.” If you’re traveling in sports or other circles of interest, then I guess the people who frequent the arts look like a small slice. That’s a very 2-D view. It’s not just the society gala page in Virginia Living. If everyone in the city whose lives touch the arts raised their hands — you’d get a much larger picture. I know 2 harpists, 3 organists, 3 actors, 2 singers, 2 dancers and five writers, and that’s just off the top of my head from people I go to church with. Where they practice their art ranges from the stage at the Kennedy Center to pulling a high school clarinet out of a dusty case and starting a church wind ensemble. I don’t live in a community where I can a la carte my taxes and just pay for the stuff I personally use. Too many people before me paid taxes so that I could enjoy the current amenities. I need to pay the taxes for the people who come after me to enjoy the same, whether it’s historical resources or underground utilities & clean water.

    Moon, there was big ad for the concert today in the News & Messenger. I’m on the Hylton’s e-list for mailings, and I get bulk mailings through my membership in the Chamber. Their website is pretty comprehensive, too.

    1. I guess if people don’t see the elist and the paper they are out of luck. I think some of the concerts there are just things many people aren’t interested in. There certainly are many eclectic performances.

      I want to go see Peter Yarrow, old hippie that I am.

      Brian Stokes Mitchell will appear in April. He was the singer at Ted Kennedy’s wake. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

  34. Raymond Beverage

    One of the things I found interesting about the County move on a Town Center out at Innovation is that it was going nowhere until GMU announced they are planning on building Graduate Student Housing out there at GMU-PW Campus. Suddenly, a long forgotten project is back on the front burner by the County.

  35. Need to Know

    @Cindy B

    I might be persuaded to support limited taxpayer-funded support for the arts in PWC/Manassas if the PWC funding process were not such a scam. As it is now, it is done with a loaded dice to favor certain influence people. Restructure the process, make it open and transparent, and require the supervisors to vote on each organization being funded, rather than use an unaccountable grants panel, and we’ll talk. Until then, the whole thing is a scam and taxpayer ripoff.

  36. Guess I’ll find out more. I just joined the PW Arts Council as an individual writer member. Seems like if it is such an unfair process, other long time members of the arts council, competing for the money, would be up in arms. Scam and ripoff? The worst I’ve ever heard is that the competition in the world of non-profits is fierce, and that I believe. Given the fact that so many of our local arts groups are still around after 10, 20, 30 years shows they are well managed. I know of one person who took advantage of the Kennedy Center’s Arts Management program to learn how to keep her 9-year-old group thriving in a down economy. I would not like to have others see the City of Manassas as balking at being a partner in the arts when thriving arts are the sign of a healthy community. You can’t go by the city limits either — many city residents and arts groups will be taking part in the Arts Alive! festival at the Connaughton Plaza in PWC next Sat. April 30.

  37. Cindy B

    Ray, the Town Center at GMU is not a long-forgotten project, it’s a process of getting all the pieces in place. I’ve heard about it through the Chamber for several years now. And unlike the other town centers – which I view as strip malls turned inward with no heart to them – this one has a heart, the university and performing arts center — a gathering place for people to meet and learn and exchange ideas without having to buy anything — to just BE. You don’t have a heart in the other town centers. Reston’s town center has the ice skating rink – heart. Old Town Manassas has the museum and pavilion and train station — heart.

  38. “Reston’s town center has the ice skating rink – heart. Old Town Manassas has the museum and pavilion and train station — heart.”

    Is it your opinion that the MP City Center is empty because it lacks “heart”? “Heart” is an intangible. How do you measure “Heart”? When taxpayers are asked to provide seed money to this or that venture, where in the business plan would “heart” appear?

    I think what you are trying to say is there must be an identifiable “central draw”. The question of “why would someone come spend their money here?” or “why would someone choose to move here, live here, work here?” needs to be answered to a high level of specificity. Once identified, realistic costs and tangible, QUANTIFIABLE, benefits must be considered. “It’d be really cool…” doesn’t satisfy the requirements. Then the taxpayers can make an informed decision as to whether or not their dollars are being properly stewarded.

    I like the President’s Own (otherwise known as the Marine Band). I have seen them like 30 times, and they always do a fine job, in true Marine Corps fashion. Their travel costs and upkeep are covered by the DoD. I’d go see the PWC Symphony, and even pay a modest price to see them. I’d see other stuff, too. That’s not my point.

    My point is, going forward we taxpayers should remember this experience and when the next “thing” comes along, not be satisfied with “It’d really be cool…” as a reason to move forward. If our public officials fall for the “Music Man” approach, we need to hold them accountable:

    It’s Trouble, I’m sayin’ Trouble..

    Trouble with a capital “T” and that rhymes with “B”

    and that stands for “Boondoggle”.

  39. Cindy B

    Hylton Center’s only been open 1 year. Many internal features, including a broadcast/recording studio, and outreach initiatives to schools, community, etc., haven’t even been tapped yet. In 10 years, you’ll see the investment more clearly.

    Besides, I kind of like the thought of my tax dollars investing in SOBs (symphony, opera, ballet) :).

    The next thing: we do need a nice hotel in the city. A hotel with a conference/retreat center would attract business. Annaburg Manor? It is the structural anchor for redevelopment in the Mathis Ave Sector Plan.

  40. Censored bybvbl

    Amen, Cindy. Manassas definitely needs a nice hotel. A hotel will draw people to the restaurants in Old Town as well. A naive tourist who books a room at the main motel in the City will have the same experience as someone who accidently books the Wolftrap Inn. Surprise!

  41. “The next thing: we do need a nice hotel in the city. A hotel with a conference/retreat center would attract business. Annaburg Manor? It is the structural anchor for redevelopment in the Mathis Ave Sector Plan.”

    Yes. A nice hotel that isn’t tied solely to tourisim would be great, and I am all for the city working with a private developer who would want to buy the property, and build the center. The city can help with zoning, and infrastructure to support the center, but if this shall be a “for profit” endevour, let’s keep the taxpayer burden as low as can be.

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