Both Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin and Rep. West of Florida faced angry town hall voters during spring break over proposals to change Medicare. The Florida town hall meeting nearly erupted in chaos and angry voters challenged West for what they saw as trying to dismantle Medicare to pay for bolstering up tax cuts for the wealthy and industry. The crowd was enraged. Rep. Ryan faced a similar packed town hall meeting. He attempted to outline his proposals and justify changes. The citizens were having none of that.
Florida Rep. Daniel Webster ran into an extremely loud accusatory crowd in Orlando who demanded that he leave Medicare alone and accused him of selling out in favor of corporations and fat cats. They waved signs stating ‘Hands Off Medicare.’ According to the New York Times:
Mr. Webster, shown in video from station WFTV, sought to defuse the situation by saying that any changes were years away and that current retirees would not see a difference. “Not one senior citizen is harmed by this budget,” he said, noting that his new granddaughter was “looking at a bankrupt country.”
Under the Republican proposal, Medicare would be converted into a program that would subsidize health coverage for retirees rather than provide coverage directly, a change that many Democrats say would risk leaving the elderly with inadequate health care as costs rise over the long run. The Republican budget would also transform Medicaid, which pays for nursing homes for low-income residents, into a grant program to states, raising the possibility that states, under budget pressure, would cut back on coverage.
The video doesn’t embed but it is worth watching the raw footage just to get a glimpse of how angry this crowd is. The Republicans seem to be caught off guard by the anger. Memories must be short. The anger shown in the summer of 2009 seems like only yesterday. Perhaps the GOP thought it couldn’t happen to them.
The rudeness is going to get worse. Once again crowds are going to out-shout others, Bullying and blustering will be the order of the day. It might be some gray panthers rather than the tea party who are being the rude ones. Tea Party, move over. The fife and drums and 3 cornered hats might be replaced by some Dylan music playing ”The Times they are A’Changing.’
The New York Times continues:
Before the release of Mr. Ryan’s proposal, Republicans had expressed confidence that public opinion had turned in their favor, and on Tuesday House leaders sought to reassure Republicans that their budget approach would eventually carry the day. Led by Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio, Republicans held a conference call urging House members to tell voters that it is the Obama administration’s spending plan that would cost jobs and ration health care.
Officials familiar with the call said that rank-and-file lawmakers did not seem alarmed at the response they were getting, and that Mr. Ryan told his fellow Republicans he had been successful in making the case that Medicare would go bankrupt without intervention. Mr. Ryan said he stressed with his constituents that those over 55 or currently on Medicare would still be covered under the existing program.
The crowd was unconvinced about claims that those over 55 were unaffected. This budget might be more of an uphill battle than the GOP previously thought. Additionally, Medicare is wildly popular. The Republicans might want to re-think tackling this one.
Apparently that silver bullet that the tea parties once thought they owned might not be as much of a show stopper as previously thought. Many feel that the Nov. 2010 elections were a flash in a pan experience. What sounded good then doesn’t sound so good now. “Don’t mess with our health care” seems to be reverberating through the Medicare and soon to be Medicare set also.
Bless these wingbats. The audio was hard to make out but I’m glad that people are getting involved even if they are wrong.
Who are the wingbats?
Did you see the ages of the audience? Do you suppose they have a reason for wanting to protect what they have?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147287/Americans-Divided-Ryan-Obama-Deficit-Plans.aspx?version=print
A new Gallup/USA Today poll contains a counterintuitive finding: the age group most receptive to House Budget Chair Paul Ryan’s plan to deal with the budget – seniors.
The poll finds 48 percent of seniors (those 65 and over) support Ryan’s plan over President Obama’s plan, while 42 percent back the president.
That’s the highest total among the age groups tested – a 47 percent plurality between the ages of 50 and 64 backed Ryan, and a 45 percent plurality of those between 30-49 backed Ryan. But young voters overwhelmingly sided with Obama by a 23-point margin, 53 to 30 percent.
bwaahahahahahahahahah
Don’t let that lull you into a false sense of security. Right now that reading is only a preliminary of ‘sticking it to the other guy.’ Basically, the baby boomers are not too concerned about what happens to the younger generation as far as ss and medicare go.
The youngest boomers are right around 50.
Medicare and ss will transcend all party lines. Whoever protects it for the boomers will end up with all the marbles.
Basically, the baby boomers are not too concerned about what happens to the younger generation as far as ss and medicare go.
Ain’t that the truth.
Seems that’s the way its been all the way all along. Warnings about the unsustainabililty of both programs have been heard for DECADES. All we’ve heard back is “oh no, you can’t change it. We’ll let our children go broke paying for it. We don’t care that its a ponzi scheme.”
Oh, and that age definition of the “boomers” should start later. My wife and I are NOT “boomers.”
@Moon-howler
-MH- Whoever protects it for the boomers will end up with all the marbles.
You mean, China? 😉
I would rather keep SS/MC as it is for those 50+ that can’t really make changes in enough time, scale it down for the 40 year olds and further scale it down to the 30 year olds. The 20s could opt out or opt in but at reduced benefits. Those in the teens would simply not be enrolled.
The idea is not to ‘screw’ old people but to save the Republic and unchain our future generations.
Boomers are defined as those born from 1945 to 1960 by most people/demographics. Those born in 1960 are around 50 and are the very youngest of the boomers. Many of them like my brother have older siblings.
@marin,
If the idea is not to screw old people but to unchair future generations, then there might be a need to include those upper 1%-ers who make over a million dollars in tax increases and FICA ceilings.
The idea of lifting that ceiling vs cutting people out of SS just won’t fly.
I don’t suppose the thought that paying for WWII is still happening has occurred to anyone? I don’t necessarily look at it as being screwed. I feel it was necessary to run up huge costs to maintain the freedom I have enjoyed my entire life. I suppose I view it as a trade off. Being over run by Germany or Japan doesn’t seem very appealing either.
Here’s a link to that “irate voter” at West’s meeting: http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/04/rep-allen-west-to-far-left-astroturfed-mob-im-just-going-to-tell-you-this-youre-not-going-to-intimidate-me-video/
She was an “Air America” host that PLANNED to disrupt the meeting.
And the hecklers were sent by Democrat based organizations like MoveOn, the DCCC, and unions.
But that’s ok. Unlike the mainstream politicians, our guys can handle genuine concerns. We expect people to be upset. Change is difficult. Well, REAL change, not the Obama change. People are scared. And the liberal activists are trying to gin up a panic.
The loud disruptions at GOP town halls has been in the news for at least a few days before they happened. It’s a planned, astroturf thing.
but isn’t this what both sides do – no reason to talk about or debate an issue, just go and disrupt any gathering, so that no information, or distorted information is distributed?
How does the Ryan plan work on pre-existing conditions and rescission? Can the private company reject your voucher?
“Perhaps the GOP thought it couldn’t happen to them.”
Uh….the Tea Party is PRIMARILY (pun meant) going after the GOP. Its the Democrats that are not used to it and packed their meetings with union members to keep out concerned constituents.
That WWII debt was necessary. Reagan had to re-tool the military and stop the slow envelopment of the nation by communist allies. Of course, his deal with Congress to cut domestic spending never went through. Passing the domestic spending was the only way to get the military budget that he needed.
Bush, though, except for the war, what the heck was all that spending for? And even then….HIS deficits were still less than 500 billion per year…..We’ve tripled that in ONE year. We’ve almost matched Bush’s deficits of 8 years with two years of spending.
SS and other domestic spending is what is destroying the budget. We warned about this during Reagan. But, nooooo….we can fix it later, they said. It’ll be ok, they said….
Well, its later. Again, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc, make up, at least 56% of the budget. Our tax revenue pays for THAT. That’s it. So, unless you want to cut EVERYTHING else, completely, we need to cut those programs. We could confiscate 100% of the wealth of the top 1% and not pay for THIS YEAR’S spending deficit. And then, next year, what? How do we pay for that year?
Ryan’s budget takes too long. Obama’s is just flat out lying about his intentions. Freeze spending NOW. Do NOT raise the Debt ceiling. To keep from going over it, CUT spending.
The problem is many fold. A) Americans think that this situation is fixable without pain. B) Americans think that they deserve SS, Medicare, etc. C) Most politicians are cowards. They refuse to lay out the actual status of the problem. D) Too many politician continue to believe that they are they to provide goodies.
Soc. Sec is a tax. That’s it. The government does not have a fiduciary responsibility to pay anyone. So, it seems that instead of fixing things, the Obama administration has decided to inflate the money supply to artificially support the stock market and to pay for our own debt. I predict that we will continue quantitative easing until it is politically expedient to stop and make it look like Obama’s political enemies are at fault. Once that spending stops, everything crashes. So the incoming President gets to deal with it. And if (God forbid!) Obama is re-elected, he’ll blame the GOP for “standing in way” of the recovery and causing the new crash. Well, that and the banks, big oil, speculators, Wal-Mart, the lack of unicorn energy sources, etc…. Oh, wait…he’s doing that now…
Stop, Flag on the play. Reagan did not have to retool the military. Ask yourself how long Vietnam had been over.
Secondly. I said straight up that I don’t condone bad manners at town hall meetings.
I don’t think that people should be arrested for being loud mouth jerks. Removed yes.
I find you all taking sides funny.
Social Security isn’t ruining the budget. Social security will run into problems if there aren’t changes made but it isn’t touching the budget at this point. Find someone more gullible to feed that one to.
Moon, Reagan did have to retool the military. The USSR was advancing in capability and in influence. The military was in poor condition following the Vietnam war and Carter’s term didn’t improve it.
Second, I didn’t say that you did. I’m uncertain as to the particulars as to why that activist was arrested. There is a fine line between showing your anger, heckling, and disturbing the peace.
Social security/Medicare etc is part of the general fund. Our tax revenue, including SS, etc, pays for nothing but those programs. If we are borrowin 42% of our budget, and SS etc is 56-58% of that budget, then we are spending ALL of our tax revenue on THOSE programs.
So, Social Security liabilities ARE part of the budget problem. You can’t separate out the costs without taking the SS taxes out of the general fund. That general fund has SPENT the SS fund. Now its time to pay those IOU’s. Medicare is in the same boat. If you include ALL the unfunded liability, our debt is over 100 trillion owed.
Since the general fund must pay SS, or repay it as the case may be…..its part of the debt. We can’t spend the same money twice.
cargo – what do you mean that SS/Medicare are part of the general fund?
Well then lets just do away with all social security, medicare, medicaid, kill everyone who might tap into these resources or let them die on the streets. Give it all to the military and be done with it. Close out all the pensions too. One fell swoop.
I disagree with your numbers. I simply cannot imagine the kind of country you want to live in.
SS/Medicare are considered part of the budget. SS funds have been used to pay general fund expenses for years, thus, the IOU that the SS fund is full of. Medicare routinely gets raided, ie, Obamacare took billions and gave it to Medicaid.
You may disagree with the numbers, but you can find out the truth on the web. Obama, himself, said that we are borrowing 42 cents of every dollar in the budget. Budget sites show SS, Medicare, etc to be about 56% of the budget. Therefore, those programs are the total of our revenue.
And here you go again…someone says cuts…and you say “let them die on the streets.”
No thought of reform, just “everybody dies” if we cut any spending. God forbid we cut 10% across the board after freezing spending. Or if we raise the pay out dates. Or SS taxes…or hey! Privatize it! Or at least give that choice. And by privatize it, I mean put every dollar into a T-bill. Then the gov’t has to pay you.
Right now…SS is a tax and nothing more. That’s how it got past the SCOTUS. Then again, if its privatized, it has to be voluntary…..there’s a thought. Stop forcing us to put OUR money into a GOV’T ponzi scheme.
http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/story/482401860a4049d8ba2233b3fe4faa1b/WI–Paul-Ryan-Town-Halls/
Apparently Paul Ryan is NOT drawing hostile crowds.
Alan West is drawing some activists, and when they become foul mouthed, they are asked to leave and if they don’t they are arrested. The meetings are on private property.
There “I” go again? I don’t recall I had ever said just let everyone die on the street.
Why would you cut 10% of someone’s social security check? Do you have any clue what that would do to some recipients?
Raise the social security taxes? Make sure that is only on the middle class. Don’t touch the wealthy…those sacred cows. The wealthy sure how the serfs fooled. Must be the kool aid in the water.
I saw some video of Paul Ryans crowds. Yea, they were all friendly. NOT. They weren’t rude. Don’t mistake not having bad matters with agreement.
or let them die on the streets.
I’ve said it before….raise the SS taxes on everybody. I’ve said it many times.
Better yet, allow people to opt out. The previous argument was that we couldn’t afford to just pay people from the general fund. Well, since we’re doing that and borrowing trillions anyway, pay those that want to stay in SS and pay those taxes out of the fund. Everyone else keeps that 15% and puts it to use as they see fit.
Oh, yes. I know what it would do. But, those same people will be hurt in any case if we DON’T fix this. What good is a check when the money is worthless. We’ve lost 6% in value THIS YEAR ALONE. They’ve just had a 6% cut and don’t know it.
So, if we must keep all of our programs, make the people pay for all of it or start cutting. And no taxes until we STOP spending. Otherwise, the gov’t will take the increased taxes and waste them on new and improved spending.
Freeze or cut the budget. THEN start paying it down. I’d be losing money too. I’m on a disability. My check would be cut by 10% too.
Better yet, allow people to opt out. – if that is what you are proposing, then you have no understanding of what Social Security is meant to be.
Opt outs are worthless. Unless everyone does it, it won’t work. It’s pretty difficult to convince people that they will be old some day and need it.
How about not allowing the fund to be raided?
VRS was raided and then we have to listen to how the fund is short …blah blah blah. Well, duh!!! Yea.
Why do you insist on protecting the more affluent? Lifting that SS ceiling would do a lot to help things out. Sorry. People making $110k a year are very much middle class. Lift that ceiling off to a quarter mill.
@Pat
Totally agree.
Why do you insist on protecting the more affluent? Lifting that SS ceiling would do a lot to help things out. Sorry. People making $110k a year are very much middle class. Lift that ceiling off to a quarter mill.
Um…I didn’t say anything about putting a limit on it. I said raise it.
As for no understanding about what SS is meant to be… It was MEANT to be an assistance foisted upon the public, at a time when most people DIED before they were able to get it. The public was told it was a retirement fund, but, it was passed as a general tax so it could get past SCOTUS.
I have an understand what it is now, too. I’m just saying that its unsustainable. It needs reform. Why couldn’t people opt out? SS is being paid from the general fund now.
Its not the government’s job to “convince people that they will be old some day and need it.” What if the person assumes that they could use that 15% better than the government to protect themselves? Congress owes trillions. If it defaults, no one gets anything. Why is Congress better than buying an annuity and putting the money into it?
Social security is a ponzi scheme. The problem is that too many people are living too long, the ratio of people paying into it to the people taking out money is too small, and too many other people die without getting any money back. And the return is horrible over time.
Perhaps it should be considered a government insurance plan. But, then, the government cannot force you to buy a product. So…its a tax masquerading as insurance.
So, make it voluntary. Let those that decide that they need the government insurance…pay into it. Let those willing to plan on their own…let them.
By the way, if you raise the tax on the affluent, they get MORE back when THEY reach the payout age. So, it really doesn’t fix too much.
There are ceilings as to maximum amount of payout. It will fix a great deal to have that ceiling lifted.
I think that the ceiling for payout is linked to the ceiling for pay in.
Does Rep. Witman. or Rep. Wolf have any town hall meetings scheduled? There are a lot of people that want to engage in civil discourse. This state is not as extremely conservative as the R’s believe. Virginians played a large role in the design of our government and while we may be trusting and slow to react at times, we understand that with Congressional colusion, the working, the retired, and a super majority of our peolple are being crushed by the looting of America by big corporations (“the job creators” or the “deciders”? Lies and deceptive promises only work if they go uncontested.