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A very Happy Father’s Day to all the dads out there, whether you are a dad, a grandfather, a special uncle, or just a surrogate dad to someone who needs a male role model in their life.  May you have a very special day.

Some of our dads are no longer with us but they have left an indelible mark on our lives.

102 Thoughts to “Open Thread……………………………………….Sunday, June 19”

  1. Chris

    I include those women that have had to take on the dual role of being a dad too in my Father’s Day wishes. This is my 7th Father’s Day without my daddy, and miss him just as much today as I did 7 years ago. I love it and consider it an honor when people call me “Little Jack”.

  2. Morris Davis

    Republican Leadership Conference hires an Obama impersonator to warm up the crowd before talk by RNC Chairman Reince Preibus. The impersonator got laughs for racial jokes about Obama, groans when he took shots at Republican presidential candidates, and then they cut his mike and escorted him out when he started cracking on Michelle Bachmann. Doug Heye, the RNC’s communication director in 2010 tweeted: “Wonder why many minorities have problems with GOP? Hiring Obama impersonator to tell ‘black jokes’ at SRLC, for starters.” http://bit.ly/jKhtFN

    1. Funny you should mention that situation, Moe. Our next thread is on that very topic.

  3. Cargosquid

    He was cancelled because of all the jokes, not just the Bachmann ones. Thing is…it seems that those that tell inappropriate jokes in front of Republicans get pulled off stage. Those that tell inappropriate jokes in front of Democrats get applauded and they move to Hollywood.

  4. Oh yes, the Democrats are bad and the Republicans are good. Silly Moe.

    Seriously, would the mike have been cut if the impersonator had only been cracking on the Prez and other D’s? I seriously doubt it.

    Did you hear all the laughing and howling over Obama? I guess you missed that part.

  5. Starryflights

    Republicans are bigots

    1. Some are, some aren’t.

  6. Cargosquid

    Starry,

    Your bigotry is showing.

  7. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Har-dee-har-har!

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57313.html

    So what will hispanics do? Vote for him again!

  8. SlowpokeRodriguez

    OK, I admit it freely. The penguin thing is cute.

  9. marinm

    Speaking of bad jokes.. With my wifes hospitalization for the next few weeks she asked me how we we’re going to pay for her treatment.

    I said, “That’s easy. NO HABLO!!!”

    50,000 out of work comedians in this administration and I’m trying to be funny. 😉

    +1 on the penguins

  10. Cargosquid

    Weiner’s truly disgusting connections: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/the_muslim_brotherhood_and_weiner.html

    Excerpt:

    Far more disturbing than the salacious details of Weiner’s dalliances is the fact that apparently his mother-in-law is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Furthermore, Huma Abedin’s brother, Hassan, “is listed as a fellow and partner with a number of Muslim Brotherhood members.” Hassan works at the Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies (OCIS) at Oxford University. The Egyptian Al-Azhar University, well-known for a curriculum that encourages extremism and terrorism, is active in establishing links with OCIS.

    How is it that the Western media, with its hourly analyses of Weiner, missed this salient point, yet Arab news sources revealed this connection? Walid Shoebat, formerly with the PLO, explains that Saleha Mahmoud Abedin, a professor in Saudi Arabia “belongs to the Sunni movement’s women’s division known as the Muslim Sisterhood.” During the recent uprising in Egypt, which resulted in Mubarak’s removal, “a special women’s unit within the Muslim Brotherhood served as ‘mules’ to deliver messages and acted as messengers for the terrorist group.”

    1. Is this the latest conspiracy theory? It sounds to me like a deliberate attempt to destroy someone’s career.

  11. Cargosquid

    Then again, this is also HILLARY’s connections. That mother in law is Huma’s mom. And Huma works for Hillary.

    So, how much is getting back to our enemies?

  12. Cargosquid

    Hit submit too soon

    If I had had connections like that, I’d never have gotten a Top Secret clearance in the Navy. Heck, it would be doubtful if I would have been cleared for Confidential.

  13. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    Is this the latest conspiracy theory? It sounds to me like a deliberate attempt to destroy someone’s career.

    Whose Career?

  14. marinm

    The Wal-Mart ruling has been pretty big news. I’m actually surprised it’s not front and center on Huffington.

    Still more hate on Justice Thomas. The left seem inclined to push the ethics issue (even though the guy leading the charge – Weiner – had an ethics issue of his own recently as a way to blunt the eventual 5-4 decision against them on healthcare.

    1. The dislike and distain for Clarence is nothing new. I have been sickened by him for years. @marin

      The recent antics of his wife both on a personal level and a professional level have reawakened that disgust.

  15. Funny how a piece about Father’s Day was instantly corrupted. I guess I am getting picky in my old age. I am a 24-carat curmudgeon and I admit it.

    1. Happy belated birthday, favorite Curmudgeon aka George!!!

  16. Morris Davis

    Cargosquid :Then again, this is also HILLARY’s connections. That mother in law is Huma’s mom. And Huma works for Hillary.
    So, how much is getting back to our enemies?

    Fred Koch co-founded the John Birch Society. Does that make his sons bigots? Is there some degree of kinship where your presumptive taint ends?

  17. punchak

    @Moon-howler

    How can’t you help but admire a person who did not hesitate to officiate at Rush
    Limbaugh’s fourth (4th) wedding?

    Why do you think he has never said a word during a Supreme Court session?

    1. @punchak,

      My guess is, he doesn’t want to tip his hand to his own intolerance and vulnerabilities.

  18. Morris Davis

    Mark Twain said “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” Having just watched a mind numbing clip of Rep. Louie Gohmert on Anderson Cooper’s show, it’s hard to fault Justice Thomas for taking the better safe than sorry approach.

  19. Cargosquid

    @Morris Davis
    Is the John Birch society at war with America? And, apparently, the Koch brothers ARE under suspicion. I see it here all the time. The Koch brothers, according to some that post here, are evil incarnate, wanting to take over America.

    As I said, if I had had a relative, much less a mother, associated with a terrorist organization, I would not have gotten a clearance, much less a position as an intel specialist.

    Why is it wrong to point out connections? Apparently those involved are ok with the situation. But, now its in the open. Perhaps this explains Hillary’s……openness….towards Arabic dictators and fundamentalist revolutionaries.

    1. Cargo, please stop. I really don’t like this kind of discussion about the Clintons or about Huma Weiner. You are implying inappropriate behavior on their part and I am not comfortable with it.

  20. Morris Davis

    A man robbed a bank. He held them up for $1 and then sat on the couch and waited for the police. He was unemployed, had exhausted his savings, had health problems, and figured prison medical care was better than no medical care. http://onforb.es/kyoG2j

    We should be ashamed, but we’re not. We’re all either indignant or indifferent. So much for the American dream.

  21. punchak

    Yessirree!

    The income gap is growing at a dangerous pace.

  22. marinm

    punchak :Yessirree!
    The income gap is growing at a dangerous pace.

    Why is the gap a bad thing and how does it become dangerous? I’m curious.

    Mo, was that citizen not happy with his promised hope and change?

  23. punchak

    marimn

    Ignorance is bliss.

  24. Cargosquid

    Of course, over time, any “income gap” will grow. Looking at it as a statistical model, the lower incomes are fixed to a certain range. The upper income has no cap. Therefore, there will always be a growing gap. Money makes money. The lower incomes do not have the money to make money. They are paid money.

    1. @Cargo, the charts have taken an exponential jump in the past couple of decades.

      The CEOs are certainly paid a salary. Those salaries are now off the chart.

  25. Morris Davis

    punchak :marimn
    Ignorance is bliss.

    That explains a lot of the tea party euphoria.

  26. marinm

    punchak :marimn
    Ignorance is bliss.

    I was asking a serious question. What is the issue? I’m an open book. Teach me. Mo, feel free to jump in if punchak is having trouble.

    1. Marin, I think punchak was trying to say it is good you didn’t know…therefore not as much soul searching over the extra embryos.

  27. marinm

    Moon-howler :
    Marin, I think punchak was trying to say it is good you didn’t know…therefore not as much soul searching over the extra embryos.

    Wrong thread. 😉 He was talking about income gap on this thread.

  28. Cargosquid

    @Moon-howler
    The CEO’s also get stock options. And, as companies grow, and THEIR profits go up, the CEO’s demand more money and better deals.

    Supply and demand works in that market too.

    Now, the problem is that the companies are not willing to fire CEO’s.

  29. Cargosquid

    @Morris Davis
    That explains how President Obama was elected. The Tea Party is showing up because we are losing our ignorance. The average American may not be as fully educated as you about political matters, etc, but they are learning about the corruption in the political process.

    But, nice condescension…..

  30. punchak

    @marinm
    The danger, as I see it, is that the lower income group is getting less and less educated, consequently cannot get wellpaying jobs. Look at DC for instance. The youth is roaming the streets and shooting each other, much of which is caused by drug dealing.

    You’ve also seen the demonstations in Wisconsin and other places, when people are denied the opportunity to join union in order to get decent pay and benefits, healthcare, etc.

    Where I lived in California in the 60s, our tract held doctors, artists, plummers, teachers, dentists. There wasn’t this incredible difference in income that we’re seeing now. And now, those who can afford it are fencing temselves off in gated communities or on top of the most beatiful mountains in the west – because they can afford it.

  31. The lack of education is a need for education reform, not wealth redistribution. Lower income groups still have access to good educations. However, its being shown that the degrees being sought do not guarantee jobs. In fact, many universities (mainly law colleges) are coming under attack because they guarantee jobs but the small print says that part time jobs at McDonalds qualify. Drug crime is caused by many things, mainly by get rich quick thought processes. Not by CEO salaries.

    People in Wisconsin are not denied the opportunity to join unions. And its only GOVERNMENT employees that now has more restricted collective bargaining. Private companies enjoy all that they can get. If it was unionization that guarantees such things, why are right to work states so popular? Why aren’t those citizens living in poverty?

    California in 2011 is a failed state. In the 60’s, almost everywhere was successful. We were the prime power, both economic and military, in the world. We had no competition in either manufacturing or consumption. But, do you want to go back to the salaries of the 60’s for teachers? My mother was poor as a church mouse in the 60’s. Do you want to go back to the regulatory regimen of the 60’s? Great! Industry and medicine will thrive. More doctors will take up general medicine. Let’s go back to per capita government spending of the 60’s. Let’s go back to the size of government found in the 60’s.

    The solution to making any “income gap” smaller is to grow the economy. Lets make everyone richer. Lets make business the business of America again. Lets make manufacturing and energy development a prime mover again.

  32. punchak

    I agree to your solution, but how do we achieve it? By paying CEOs outrageous salaries and bonuses? Is that helping anything, I wonder? Reading the econ.news, I find that companies are sitting on piles of cash rather than hiring fulltime employees. That hurts rather than helps.

    The 60s were good for a great many people – Not for our black citizens, though, sorry to say.

    I don’t know why your mother was as poor as a church mouse in the 60s. The teachers who lived in my neighorhood lived as well as most of us did. Of course, there were few families with two cars; gas prices were laughably low, most mothers stayed home while kids were in el. school so there weren’t daycare expenses. The feeling of “must have” wasn’t very strong. We paid cash because there weren’t many credit cards. A Sears card was our first. so we could buy tools for my husband to build furniture for us. Being in debt for anything except your house, was not very common.

    An aside: When we were first married our annual income was $4800, mortgage + insurance came to ca $100/month. Any visit to the doctor was paid by us, no insurance company involved. Paid our ob-gyn $150 for pre-and post partum expenses AND delivery. It would have cost $200 if we didn’t pay until after delivery. It has nothing to do with the income gap – just some trivia abt how it was “then”.

  33. And just how would you reform education? Do we need more NCLB? What grade levels would you reform? I might outline my educational reforms some day for you all. You would think you landed on the moon.

    Punchak, it also wasn’t that good for women either job wise. Not too good for those who didn’t want to go to war either.

    Teachers weren’t paid very well in the 60’s. However, things didn’t cost as much. My parents house cost $23k. My college tuition never went above $1500–that’s per year. I think it included lodging and meals also. Everything is relative I guess.

  34. The difference between then and now is that “then” had less credit available, less free money from the government, etc.

    Since everything was paid for by the customer….prices were low and known. Try finding out the actual price of a medical procedure now…..

    My mother was poor because teachers New Orleans were some of the lowest paid in the US. Single mom. Even so, she kept us in a house and kept me from knowing just how poor we were.

    Salaries are properly the concern of the companies involved. Companies are sitting on cash because they have no idea how President Obama’s agenda is going to screw them. Why should they hire if they don’t know how expensive that employee is going to be? Or what the taxes are going to be under Obamacare? Or how his agenda is going to affect energy prices? And why should they hire people when they can borrow money from the government at 0% and invest it in government bonds at 2-3%?

    It is government interference that makes business more expensive. Is some of it necessary? Yes. But we’ve gone overboard on regulation. Perfect example: EPA regs on C02.

  35. My parents had credit in stores, for their house and cars. They also had health insurance. Cargo,

    I think you are romanticizing the 60’s. Plenty of people had health insurance. I know this because I worked in the University of Virginia Hospital each weekend and I wrote up the payments. Middle class people had insurance. The poorer people and country people didn’t. Some people had judgements. (those were the green cards) Some people paid about $1 a week and had been doing that for 10 years. Some one wrote each time they paid: Take this you skunks! You are taking our life blood.

    That’s quite a pronouncement about why companies are sitting on cash. Think any of it has to do with fear of recession again?

  36. Fear of recession…AGAIN? We’re still in this one and there’s threat of it deepening….

    I was speaking of the credit cards, easy loans, etc, that we have today. Doctors didn’t have to have such huge staffs to deal with insurance, medicare, etc that we have to have today.

  37. Starryflights

    Palin Bus Tour Takes Extended Pit Stop
    By Scott Conroy – June 22, 2011

    Less than a month after she appeared poised to shake up the Republican presidential campaign, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has once again receded from the 2012 limelight.

    Though Palin and her staff never announced a timeline for the remaining legs of her trip, aides had drafted preliminary itineraries that would have taken her through the Midwest and Southeast at some point this month. But those travel blueprints are now in limbo, RCP has learned, as Palin and her family have reverted to the friendly confines of summertime Alaska, where the skies are currently alight for over 19 hours a day and the Bristol Bay salmon fishing season is nearing its peak.

    “http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/22/palin_bus_tour_takes_extended_pit_stop__110313.html”

    Ah quit!

  38. Morris Davis

    Cargo – You mentioned the right of people in Wisconsin to join a union. I assume you’d agree that being anti-union doesn’t give anyone in Wisconsin the right to punch a pro-union advocate in the face. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_cf6ba9b4-9c6f-11e0-b485-001cc4c03286.html

  39. Wolverine

    Nor does being pro-union give you the right to march en masse to some businessman’s home in the Maryland suburbs of D.C., picket the place, including trespassing on his private property, and scare the Hell out of a young kid who was the only one home at the time. And being pro-union certainly doesn’t give you the right to go to a townhall meeting in suburban South St. Louis County and punch some vendor in the face because he is selling that yellow flag favored by Tea Party people.

    1. @Wolverine

      totally agree. That was a deplorable situation.

      And going to the State Republican convention doesn’t give anyone the right to throw a vendor down for tabling for Republicans for Choice. The vendors camera was also stomped and broken. The vendor suffered a long injury.

  40. Too bad those state and local union employees have been singled out as the scapegoat. Every time I think of it, it sickens me.

  41. marinm

    WashPo

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/congressional-budget-office-warns-of-debt-explosion/2011/06/22/AGNwb2fH_story.html

    The national debt will exceed the size of the entire U.S. economy by 2021 — and balloon to 200 percent of GDP within 25 years — without dramatic cuts to federal health and retirement programs or steep tax increases, congressional budget analyst said Wednesday.

    Interesting paragraph

    “If policymakers are to put the nation on a sustainable budgetary path, they will need to let revenues increase substantially as a percentage of GDP, decrease spending significantly from projected levels, or adopt some combination of those two approaches,” the CBO report said.

    1. Going to work and wanting to engage in collective bargaining is not my idea of ‘acting badly.’

      They are being scapegoated. They are the most vulnerable in terms of who to union bust. However, this too shall pass and there will be political paybacks.

  42. FINALLY! Perhaps NOW will this scandal reach the masses. The BATFEieio tried to scam the American people about the need for more gun control. And it …..backfired….

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-21-2011/the-fast-and-the-furious—mexico-grift

  43. @Moon-howler
    I’m talking about the SEIU that crashed a Special Olympics ceremony as zombies.
    I’m talking about the violence and intimidation being committed by the unions.

    “going to work and wanting to engage in collective bargaining is fine.”

    Except for that whole lying to the employers and skipping work in an illegal strike for demonstrations….that part isn’t going to work….

    And they still have collective bargaining. Its just been limited to salary, not benefits.

    And what do you think about this union member: http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/06/22/shelly-moores-d-cand-wi-sen-unethical-recall-freeloading/

    Shelly Moore was well aware that she was not supposed to be using her school account to coordinate and encourage both the Big Labor protests earlier in the year and recall efforts against Wisconsin Senators (particularly since she ended up being the Democratic candidate opposing State Senator Sheila Harsdorf). This cannot be contested. Shelly Moore herself admitted as such… in a work email….Shelly Moore just didn’t care. That’s not a bowdlerization: she said, explicitly, “I don’t frankly care.”

  44. Cargo, why would I take something called redstate as an authority against unions? I would expect them to not like them.

    Unethical freeloading–I don’t care one way or the other. If you violate acceptable use rules and get caught, I guess you pay the consequences.

    You are being dismissive of the union’s losses. The benefits are key. Remember the previous conversations about public employees working in those jobs for less salaries and better benefits? It is a huge upset.

    Perhaps if you thought about you would feel to have gun rights whittled away with, you might understand how these people feel. It is really affecting their livelihood.

    Additionally, you have no idea what kind of leave some of them were on. Some might have been using personal or professional leave. As for sick leave, I am not sure what their rules are. A sick in is legal in some states.

    But finally, you want to take something away from someone and then criticize them when they come after you to take what is theirs back. That actually takes some nerve. Many of those people who will be loosing benefits went to work and didn’t go to Madison, so that punishment mentality doesn’t wash with me.

    I am glad they fought back.

    As for Special Olympics and SEIU, I don’t know anything about it. I forget why you hate SEIU.

  45. Big Dog

    http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/campaign-for-disneys-america/

    Glad it turned out we didn’t really need the tourist, tax revenue and jobs
    Disney America would have created. Yep, really a smart move.

  46. Democrat Shawn Mitchell, an Iraq veteran and small-business owner in Loudoun County, will run for state Senate in a new Republican leaning district in Northern Virginia.

  47. Big Dog :

    http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/campaign-for-disneys-america/

    Glad it turned out we didn’t really need the tourist, tax revenue and jobs
    Disney America would have created. Yep, really a smart move.

    Not one of Prince William’s finest hours. Yet what do we have to show for that magnanimous decision to force Disney out?

    Pete Steeger says it best:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEYGU_7EqU

  48. “Cargo, why would I take something called redstate as an authority against unions? I would expect them to not like them.”

    Why wouldn’t you take a direct quote from the culprit? Is Redstate being dishonest? I accept even Media Matters IF THEY ARE BEING HONEST.

    As for the “sick in,” its on tape that they were using fake notes from doctors. And I dislike SIEU because they are a thuggish group that has been using corruption, intimidation, and violence for years.

    They lost the tool of collective bargaining and they want it back. Fine. That’s what elections are for. Not intimidation campaigns, not thuggery, not taking over government buildings, not disrupting Special Olympics, etc. Make a case for it, convince the voters that its worth the money, and then get them to vote in the politicians that will give you those generous, budget busting benefits. That’s how we got into this mess in the first place. Public employees should not be unionized. Its a conflict of interest. That’s one of the few things that I agree with FDR when it comes to domestic politics.

    The right to keep and bear arms is a human right, recognized and protected in the Bill of Rights. The right to collective bargaining is a legal invention. You have every right to ask a group to negotiate for you. The other side does not have to listen nor accept it. Once that impasse happens, you have some options, including finding other work. Why can’t you accept that its the benefits that are driving the major costs of states across the nation and that the unions are the cause?

  49. This is why the unions are being pushed to cut benefits.

    From CNBC…NOT a right leaning site, so you can rely on it, apparently:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/43498037

    U.S. state and local governments will need to raise taxes by $1,398 per household every year for the next 30 years if they are to fully fund their pension systems, a study released on Wednesday said.

    Pension funding in U.S. cities and states has deteriorated in the wake of the 2007-2009 economic recession as investment earnings dropped, and some states, such as New Jersey and Illinois, skipped or reduced required payments.

    The issue has sparked heated debates, from the streets of Wisconsin’s capital, Madison, where thousands demonstrated over public employees’ rights to bargain, to New Jersey, where lawmakers are expected to give final approval this week to a plan that will scale back benefits for public sector workers.

    Wall Street rating agencies and investors in the $2.9 trillion U.S. municipal bond market are increasingly focusing on unfunded pension liabilities as they weigh the credit-worthiness of state and local government debt.

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