Michele Bachmann and Tim Pawlenty have signed on to the Susan B. Anthony List’s 2012 Pro-life Presidential Leadership Pledge. The presidential candidates have pledged to roll back abortion rights in four key areas, and the duo join three other presidential contenders: Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul and Rick Santorum. Bachmann went after fellow presidential candidate Mitt Romney on Sunday for not signing the pledge and not committing to “ending the practice of abortion.”
The candidates pledged to appoint anti-abortion judges, to appoint anti-abortion cabinet members, to defund Planned Parenthood and to sign a bill banning abortion after 20 weeks gestation.
Bachmann went after Mitt Romney for not signing the pledge.
So there is a litmus test now for presidential appointments, cabinet members, and I would assume Supreme Court Justices? I guess its official now. What about the 50% (at least) of us who are pro-choice?
Perhaps pro-choice Americans need to follow these pledge signers real closely. I certainly wouldn’t vote for any of them. I don’t think I am alone. Some folks are quiet about being pro-choice. Some are afraid because of the bullying that some people carry out towards people with whom they disagree.
Yes, bullying. I have been knocked to the ground for being at a Republican pro-choice table at the State Republican Convention when Ollie North was running for Senate. I have had someone come up in my driveway and scrape my bumper stickers off my car. That is just the tip of the iceberg. These incidents happened a decade or so ago. I expect people have become even more emboldened. I just learned to prevent vandalism and being battered by not having bumper stickers and not going in public places with my opinions.
Perhaps its a good thing that these folks are signing their hokey pledges. It lets everyone know where they stand. No guessing. For those who want to defund Planned Parenthood, we will hold them responsible for financing all the programs provided for poor women to get maternity and post natal care and also for programs for children that ensure good nutrition, education, safe child care, schips health care and all the other things many Republicans are trying to defund at the moment.
Meanwhile, I am committed to church and state remaining separate. I believe that women are capable of making thir own morally appropriate decisions about deeply personal issues. I do not trust politicians to make those choices for me and mine.
What kind of person tries to reduce abortion by getting rid of birth control? Only someone blinded by unfiltered ideology can be this susceptible to this kind of nonsensical logic.
I sure hope one of these two bozos wins the Republican nomination and makes abortion the central issue of their campaign. Obama will win in a landslide.
I find it incredibly sad that elections continue to be won and lost over abortion. Abortion shouldn’t even be a political issue. Its a private issue, perhaps one of the most private.
You are absolutely correct! What goes on in the family is a private matter. The government should not concern itself with how wives, children, and the unborn are treated. If innocent life is destroyed, that is just too bad. The family is sacrosanct and government intrusion to protect the most vulnerable among us has be prevented. These cold, uncaring Republicans must be rebuffed at all costs!
Kelly, if all the world were Republican right to lifters perhaps you would be right. You must accept that some of us do not see things as you do.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about fertilized ovum in fertility clinics? Do you view those the same way as say a year old baby or even a 9 month fetus, right about to be born? Do you see a difference?
I think the non-Romney candidates are using this as a way to point out that Romney isn’t the guy. Bold move.
I think no one wants to have a Pawlenty moment.
That is actually a rather stupid pledge to sign. Beware of unintended consequences. That sure is hanging the entire status of the United States of America on one and only one issue: abortion. I can see someone being passed over as Secretary of the Navy because they aren’t pro life enough. I don’t give a rat’s ass if the Secretary of the Navy is pro choice or not.
Litmus test? It’s not like its a secret that the GOP is the pro-life party.
Its in the platform, or at least it was. If you don’t want to vote for them, you’re not expected to. This is what primaries are all about.
But I will vote for one of them.
It didn’t used to be a requirement that all Republicans were anti-abortion politically. Why don’t they just rename the party the Anti-abortion party if that is the issue that drives the train.
I still know pro choice Republicans. Will they be thrown out of the party?
It still baffles me how one party can be so adamant about government staying out of people’s lives but yet they want to allow the government into everyones uterus. That makes no sense to me.
@Moon-howler
You keep saying “allow the government into everyones uterus.” when its actually seen as the government stopping a killing of an innocent life. At least, that’s how its seen on the “litmus test” side. Of course, the Democrats don’t have any litmus tests.
But….I’m done. We’ve had this discussion.
If the some members of the GOP thinks that this will get them votes, more power to them. If you think that this will sink them, then you should be rooting for those you oppose to push this pledge.
Personally, I think any pledges are idiotic. The only pledge I want them to live up to is, “I swear to up hold the Constitution…..”
@Cargo
And you do not hear me–not everyone sees this issue the same. Many of us see that other factors need to be taken in to consideration and that the question of abortion isn’t a binary one. Regardless of how one feels, abortion is a legal procedure and women are capable of making their own morally appropriate decisions.
Are you one of those people who protects fertiziled eggs in a petrie dish also? I see a huge difference between an entity in an cellular or embryonic state and a neonate. You don’t have to agree with me. You just have to stay out of my business. (universal you implied here) Just because you are a republican doesn’t mean you are right. Plenty of Republicans also just give lip service.
@Moon-howler
With all of our back and forth…are you really asking me that question about petrie dishes? Have I ever said anything like that?
All I was talking about was that its no surprise that some in the GOP are using this as a litmus test. You’ve had my emails. That’s why I’m not debating this topic AGAIN, ad nauseum. I was actually just describing it from a political point of view.
@Cargo, it was a serious question and I have no idea how you feel about fertilized ovum in a petrie dish. I wasn’t accusing you of saying it. I asked how you felt about them.
I agree that abortion is a personal choice and one best left to the individual. I also get fed up with single issue politicians that focus ONLY on abortions. And abortion is a slippery slope. Once the eradication of that choice should come about then whats to stop the rest of the eradications? Abortion (murder), birth control of any kind (against God’s will/possible murder), IVF (playing God and creating life where God does not intend), limiting family size via NFP (against God’s will), womens right to vote (unecessary since her husband is the spiritual headship of the family and can vote for her). This is not far fetched either. There are already many families here in the US who fervently believe that in order to live in a Godly kingdom the US must become a theocracy and all of it’s members must sumbit to some warped form of Calvinism ala Bill Gothard, Doug Phillips (women don’t need to vote), and Botkin. These men and their organizations fund like-minded individuals to run for political office and it’s a well known fact that Huckabee and Palin both attended Gothards IBLP seminars. Kudos to Romney for not signing the pledge… but you know he’s really not a Christian according to the Christian right. He’s a heathen just like the Catholics, Muslims and Jews.
“You don’t have to agree with me. You just have to stay out of my business. (universal you implied here)”
I wish that would go for smoking at Applebees or carrying my gun at a Pre-School but people like to get in MY business.
As my wife and I did an IVF procedure we struggled with the idea of fertilized eggs being left over (because we did view them as a piece of us). Could we use them for a later procedure? What if we got divorced? What if we didn’t want any more kids?
It’s gut wrenching to have to go through all the possibilties.
In the end we didn’t have any extra. None of the extras survived and were destroyed. We felt blessed that we didn’t have to make the hard decision.
As for the pledge.. I think it should be up to the States to decide for themselves and kick the federales out of the equation.
@marin, You sure opened up a can of worms with your response. Guns at pre-school: Their house. They make the rules. Do you want just any old idiot carrying a gun in the Marin Prince and Princess’s school? I wouldn’t. As for Applebees smoking-I think it should be up to the eat restaurant whether to allow smoking. Those who don’t like this shouldn’t go. I don’t think smoking and gun carrying are comparable to each other or to abortion.
As for petrie dishes, you have a serious reason to have the feelings you have, or thought you would have. I wasn’t trying to make light of it. However, I wouldn’t think one way or the other about the concept of throwing them out because it isn’t me personally. I think you sort of just made my point for me.
I totally disagree about state laws for abortion and guns. A patch work of laws causes problems. But we have argued that. The situation with Jim Webb and that gun was ridiculous. 3 sets of laws going from National Airport to the Capitol. Give me a break.
As a Unitarian Universalist that celebrates those that came before us, I’m sad that these people have co-opted one of our fore bearers Susan B. Anthony. There is a fair amount of dissension about her radical feminist/women’s rights/sufferage being used for this cause, especially since the Republicans were not running a “guns, god and gays” campaign in the late 1800’s.
Ahhh… revisionist history.
b
I agree, Bruce. I don’t even know why she was chosen as this particular cause. Thank you for reminding me how much it irritates me to see them co-opting her name.
@Kelly3406
Gag, gag, gag. Insincerity is perhaps a worse crime than denying women the right to make their own decisions about their body.
While I have no hard numbers, I suspect that 100s, if not 1000s, of fertilized eggs are discarded every day. Why aren’t all you pro-lifers out there protesting?
@ marinm–Deciding on IVF is no easy one, but you know on the front end that there will be more than one fertilized egg. Knowing that you went forward anyway–so what was your problem?
MH, sorry I should’ve said K-12. K-12 schools built with taxpayer dollars are OUR house. I feel discriminated against because of the current law.
With restraunts I thought you had supported the states effort to regulate tobacco? I’m all for allowing the owners to choose. In this case the heavy gloved hand of govt squashed them into compliance.
I do appreciate that you agree with my Tenth Amendment arguement that the States should decide on the abortion issue. Can I send you a TEA party sticker now?????
George, that’s a really good question. My answer to that would be that there is a difference between an academic knowledge and then pulling the actual trigger. I think maybe that’s why legislators push so hard for ultrasounds to show women the fetus they are carrying. So that instead of an abstract idea (our eggs are potential people and what does it mean to freeze them, discard them, donate them, etc) and signing our names to the document with the actual decision.
— It became “real”.
@marin re our house–your argument becomes more valid once you move it into public territory. However, I strongly disagree with you. You can’t have guns at a school unless carried by law enforcement. You need to be able to prosecute weapons at a school. It saves lives. Too many people in one limited area. You are assuming everyone is responsible. Usually if guns are at school, they are being carried by people very irresponsible. There is just no need.
I have never been in favor of states regulating tobacco. It should be up the the restaurant if they want to allow smoking or not.
I don’t (DO NOT) want a patch work of gun laws and abortion laws.
As for pushing for ultra sound…I don’t think legislators have any business pushing anything like that. Who the hell are they? They don’t know me. They shouldn’t be in charge of morals. Why do we need to be told? Does someone have superior morals than I do? That is pretty presumptuous. I have no problem, btw, if this kind of information is taught in health/sex ed class.
I think your doctor probably showed you what was going on and gave you good information. Who do you trust–your doctor or some legislator?
I have no problem with women who are determined to have an abortion for whatever reason (first trimester) keeping things in the abstract.
You know what I LOVE (sarcasm here), the same people that would deny a woman the right to have dominion over her own body, are the EXACT same ones that bemoan welfare, SCHIP, early childhood education, headstart, quality daycare support for single women, and the list goes on and an on and on………
these are the SAME people that are bitching about the expansion of medicaid for children that would not normally qualify because their parents made too much money(I believe that number is 236% below povery level is the cut off for medicaid).
My eyes and ears tell me that some of the most vocal anti abortion activists have NO plan to help the women they intend to FORCibly bear children.
MH, you are incorrect with respect to law enforcement being the only ones that can carry weapons on school grounds.
The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school’s curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, “weapon” includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and “closed container” includes a locked vehicle trunk.
I apologize for mis-stating your position. I must’ve mis-read.
I agree that Virginia telling Ruby Tuesday’s that they can’t allow smokers just rings as un-American to me. It was a sad day in the Commonwealth.
“I don’t think legislators have any business pushing anything like that.”
Isn’t that like legislators telling me I can’t own this type of gun cause it’s scary? Or, I can’t have more than 1 in a 30 day period? Or that I have to get the states permission before I can buy one? 30 day waiting period for a gun but 0 days for an abortion. Both are rights… I guess I fail to understand how legislators can do one but not the other?
MH, I actually do agree with your last statement. I differ that I think the States should set abortion policy and regulation vice the Federales.
Well, that is certainly at odds with this pledge that Bachmann and Pawlenty have signed.