Since the formation of Advocates for the Rural Crescent in 2000, each electoral season the candidates have been invited to sign a pledge supporting the Rural Crescent.

This election cycle has begun and the pledges have been sent to all certified candidates to date.   Although several candidates do not have formal websites, I have sent the pledges via the VPAP published addresses.

Bob Pugh, republican running for Coles District Supervisor, has swiftly returned the pledge with an extensive cover letter:

            June 22, 2011

Elena L. Schlossberg-Kunkel

Advocates for the Rural Crescent

[address redacted]

Dear Elena:

I sign the Rural Crescent pledge with great pleasure.

Many Prince William County residents question why the Rural Crescent is needed, and some believe that it represents nothing more than tree-huggers pursuing an anti-growth agenda. Neither of those views reflects the value of this innovative land use policy to our community.

The Rural Crescent is one of the best tools we have to keep taxes low. Runaway residential development in areas where no roads, schools, firehouses, etc. exist imposes an enormous burden on taxpayers. This infrastructure is incredibly expensive to build, and what limited proffers developers do pay barely scratch the surface of the capital and operating costs their projects create. The difference is subsidized by current taxpayers. If anyone has any doubt, they should just look at how much faster than inflation property tax bills have been rising over the past couple of decades.

The Rural Crescent helps ensure a prosperous future for our children and our community. Many argue that the Rural Crescent is only temporary; that it will go away. Change is inevitable, but it should not be driven by big developers, their high-powered land use attorneys and lobbyists, and massive campaign contributions to politicians. If we dismantle the Rural Crescent now, and allow water and sewer lines to be constructed, the area will be inundated with tax-revenue negative residential development. Preserving the area now allows us to have the resources later when environmentally-responsible employers want to locate corporate campuses, or high-tech or bio-tech manufacturing facilities here. Such development can be done in a way that preserves open space, creates good jobs, supports our tax base, and improves the quality of life in Prince William County.

The Rural Crescent helps preserve Prince William County’s heritage. Our past is one filled with the rich history of the United States, and that of an emerging rural community. Rows-upon-rows of densely crowded townhouses and McMansion villages are not what we are all about.

The Rural Crescent strengthens property rights rather than expropriates them. Landowners can now by-right subdivide their property into ten-acre lots with no further rezoning needed. Some might prefer denser development, which makes much more money for the developers, but would also impose enormous costs on all other taxpayers as discussed above. If someone else wants to raise my taxes in order to profit themselves, I have a say in the matter. My property rights and right not to pay higher taxes to subsidize someone else’s gain are important also.

I pledge to fight for greater integrity and accountability on the part of senior County management staff on development issues such as the Rural Crescent. When I joined the Prince William County Government as a Senior Financial Analyst in 1999, Bern Ewert was the County Executive. Mr. Ewert was an innovative leader who helped create the Rural Crescent, and led the way in having the staff perform fiscal impact analyses of land use proposals, make quality urban design a key component of land use changes, and many other pro-taxpayer and pro-citizen measures. Unfortunately, a pro-development Board of Supervisors ousted him. Leadership in the County’s senior staff has since that time turned increasingly toward developer interests and away from than those of the citizens and taxpayers of Prince William County.

I pledge absolutely to vote against developments such as Avendale, which was a completely residential development that encroached into the Rural Crescent, as well as sewer lines that represent nothing more than a foot in the door for new residential development. I pledge to keep my constituents informed and oppose any last minute measures coming before the Board of County Supervisors that the community has not had a chance to review, discuss and provide their input.

Thank you for all of your efforts since 2000 to preserve the Rural Crescent.

Sincerely,

Bob Pugh

Candidate for Coles District Supervisor

52 Thoughts to “Bob Pugh First Candidate to Sign Rural Crescent Pledge”

  1. anonymous

    Yay Bob! And great comments to go with the pledge. It’s good to know at least one candidate actually understands the issues and is still willing to make a real commitment to the public.

  2. Anonymous, thanks for posting. Please chose a moniker of your choice.

  3. Thank you, Elena, for posting my letter on the Rural Crescent! I hope everyone will read my website, http://www.bobforsupervisor.org, to learn more about my vision for balanced economic development in Prince William County.

    Your financial support of my campaign would also be most appreciated. Marty has received massive funding from developers, and more of his campaign money comes from Fairfax County than Prince William. Over 75 percent of his campaign contributions so far in 2011 have come from people in Fairfax County, according to VPAP data. As my letter above demonstrates, I won’t be getting any of that money. We still need to get the message out about electing a Coles Supervisor who represents our interests rather than those of developers and people who don’t even live in Prince William County!

  4. Cindy B

    I like your use of straight video on your website – no music, no slick frills and production, just straight talk. Keep it up.

  5. @Cindy B

    Thanks Cindy. I don’t have the money to do slick ads and videos. Even my campaign literature is homemade, and I produced and wrote the web site entirely on my own with a $200 hosting and do-it-yourself website building package from Network Solutions. My wife shot the video on my campaign website with our digicam and I uploaded it to YouTube.

    If I manage somehow to win this race, I will be showing that’s it’s possible to win and represent your constituents without boatloads of special interest money.

  6. Immigrant

    Mr. Pugh,

    I just don’t understand how you can raise money on, accept the endorsement of, and publish on another website that was created by the man who founded a group on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s “Hate List” and give pithy answers amongst accusations that anyone who doesn’t vote for you is nuts (which would include our Governor, several Republican Delegates, and our Sheriff to name a few) and comments like ““…how about we just line up everyone that supported that massively significant cell tower and just shoot them in the friggin head. …and their families too.”

    That “shoot them in the friggin head” line keeps running through my mind… and your “pithy reply to a serious question” nonchalantly follows it as if “that’s ok”. That’s “not ok.”

    It would appear that you are both for a return to the days of 2007 and the immigration issues and for protecting the Rural Crescent. In fact, It would appear that you are “for” anything that will get you elected. I know what you promised these people. What exactly did you promise to BVBL to get their endorsement and support? We know from past experience what these promises are often worth.

    I really don’t want to return to the immigration conflicts of 2007… some people were “scared for their lives” during those bad times. Looking “a little hispanic” was not a comfortable feeling for a long time. Thank God for Chief Charles Dean.

    For those who haven’t checked out BVBL lately… particularly if you actually live in the Coles District… you should. That’s what my neighbors and I are talking about these days. My family and many of my friends “look a little bit hispanic”. What are you going to promise us, Mr. Pugh?

    I’m not sure which “Bob Pugh” is running for Supervisor… the “..shoot em in the head…” guy or the “…save the Rural Crescent…” guy. I don’t think you can have it both ways.

  7. Immigrant

    @Bob Pugh Just curious, who shot that video?

  8. IVAN

    @Immigrant

    Great post. There seems to be more questions with Mr. Pugh’s candidacy than answers. Let’s try a few questions for Mr. Pugh.

    1. Marte takes contributions from developers and sources outside the county. Corey Stewart also takes contributions from these people as do others on the Board. Are you going to bump heads with fellow party members on this issue?

    2. Avondale. Corey voted to rezone this area, as well as other Republicans on the Board. Do you oppose the reelection of Corey or these other Board members because of their votes on the Rural Crescent?

    3. Immigration. Avoid it as you may, but if you are running for political office in PWC, immigration is an issue. Since you are running campaign spots on the other blog(BVBL), it must be assumed that you share the same attitudes as followers of that blog. If not, it’s past time for a divorce.

    4. [redacted]

    5. Team player? There are 8 votes on the PWCBOS. To get things done, compromise is necessary. How can you oppose so many on the Board on so many issues and still expect cooperation on issues pertaining to the Coles District?

    Enough questions for now. After we get some answers I’ll come back with more questions. A quick note: I won’t be looking for any answers on the “other” blog. You better pick your platform. You can’t play both sides in this game.

  9. Emma

    Interesting to see a couple of litmus tests going on here.

  10. Emma,

    What you perceive as a litmus test, I perceive as voters having questions.

    What you won’t see is Elena or me trying to hi-jack Bob Pugh’s campaign.

    To all: Marty Nohe has been invited to post on our blog also. We feel informed voters best serve Prince William County. We want people talking about issues.

  11. Elena,

    send the pledge to [email protected] and consider it signed. My website is http://www.michaelhigh.org

  12. Immigrant and IVAN – thank you for your questions.

    First, I have never made a comment about shooting, killing or harming anyone in any way. Moreover, the person who wrote that comment on BVBL was responding sarcastically, not seriously, to another comment with which they disagreed.

    If I only posted on blogs with which I agree with everything their publishers write, you would never see any comments from me anywhere. Posting on Moonhowlings is not a blanket endorsement of everything Moon and Elena say; nor is posting on BVBL a blanket endorsement of everything Greg says. I intend to post on any blog and speak with anyone who is interested in hearing about my vision for Prince William County. If they chose to endorse me, so much the better.

    I haven’t bought any ads on BVBL or anywhere else – don’t have the money. Hopefully, I’ll be able to raise enough to run some ads later, but running against an incumbent whose has raised thousands upon thousands of dollars of special interest money is an uphill battle. As I wrote clearly above in post #5, my wife shot that video on our own digicam and I uploaded it to YouTube. My guess is that sometime between now and the primary we will see a deluge of ads, mailings, etc. from Marty paid for with his developer money that don’t address the issues as I’m trying to do.

    Marty informed me that the Chamber of Commerce wants to host a forum with all of the supervisor candidates from each district. I told him that I would gladly accept and be there. However, such a forum would allow only a limited amount of time for him and me to discuss issues. Another community group has also contacted both Marty and me about holding a public forum that would be just him and me presenting our views. I have already accepted, informing them that I will cancel a planned business trip to Los Angeles if needed to accommodate their preferred date. As of yesterday, they were still waiting to hear back from Marty.

    I’ll post an update to let both Moonhowlings and BVBL readers know what happens with this forum.

    I disagreed strongly with Corey about Avendale and other issues, and have spoken with him about it. Moreover, I’m not running for Supervisor just to vote for or against whatever Corey, or anyone else, wants. I’ll evaluate ideas and proposals based upon what I think is in the best interest of Coles District constituents and Prince William County.

    Regarding immigration, there’s been a whole page on my website since I began my campaign about that issue. I don’t see how you can think I’m avoiding it.

  13. IVAN

    @ Bob

    Based on what I read on your website, you are avoiding the immigration issue. Do you support Chairman Stewart’s “Virginia Rule of Law” initiative? Do you have any specific proposals beside reference to employee verification?

    You may not agree with what is stated on any specific blog but in the words of a local blogger, “Perception is reality”. Besides, posting is one thing, having a blog post campaign threads trashing your opponent isequivalient to an endorsement. Don’t be a tool to serve someone elses political ambitions.

  14. IVAN – I support the ultimate version of the Rule of Law Resolution passed by the Prince William County Board of Supervisors. The only changes I would support now are those to reduce the economic incentives for illegal immigration, such as business licences, employment verification, etc. This is hardly a right-wing or anti-immigrant position because even President Barack Obama has initiated similar measures to crack down on illegal employment.

    I haven’t looked at what Chairman Stewart has been saying about his “Virginia Rule of Law” initiative for a few weeks, and would not comment anyway, any more than I would bring national defense or other non-local issues into this campaign. I’m campaigning on local Prince William County issues rather than state or national ones.

    Regarding what’s written or said by others, I ask only that you judge me on the basis of what I write and say.

    My platform is based on fiscal conservatism and balanced economic growth. If you don’t like the direction our local economy is headed and think we can do better, please support me with your vote.

  15. Raymond Beverage

    @Immigrant

    That line about “shoot them in the friggin’ head” had NOTHING to do with Mr. Pugh – and EVERYTHING to do with cellular tower going up in a location many oppose. It is a sticking point within the Gainesville District with regards to Mr. Stirrup.

    I read the Black Velvet, and occasionally comment using my name, as sometimes there are discussions there that stay on the more logical side, or need logic injected. That said, please do remember that blog gets filled with emotional lines, and you have to read it with caution, or fall into a trap of wording.

  16. Immigrant

    Mr. Pugh,

    I find it amusing that so many people who don’t even live in the Coles District appear to be “fighting” for mindshare in your campaign. I do live in the Coles District. When I first learned that you had entered the primary, I did a “Google” search to learn more about you.

    When “BVBL” popped up, I got a cold chill. When I went there and found the headline, about “only a NUT” and read the rhetoric, I flashed back to 2007. If you don’t “get” why the fact that BVBL is putting so much effort supporting you while using the same intimidation tactics it used in 2007 on those who disagree… well… that’s a problem. 2007 was a bad period for a lot of us. We fondly remember Supervisor Nohe and Chief Charlie Dean getting folks who “looked a little bit hispanic” through those troubled times and his efforts to work the compromise position that the board ultimately approved. We can only wonder what BVBL knows that we don’t to make then so passionate about your candidacy.

    I then found your Moonhowlings post. I’m sure lots of people care about the Rural Crescent; however, “that boat’s sailed”. Most of the folks who signed the last petition didn’t keep their promise. Supervisor Nohe, if I remember correctly, didn’t sign it because he would prefer not to make a promise he couldn’t keep. Frankly, I’m not even sure where this property is… or even if its in the Coles District… so I’m not sure exactly who you are trying to please here. It’s not me… I don’t care.

    Then I found your website. Ivan pointed out something that I missed (thank you, Ivan). It appears your campaign is at odds with all of the current sitting members of the BOCS (and, apparently, the Prince William County Republican Party in general). That’s an issue because as a Coles District Resident (and I may be the only Coles District Resident to weigh in here), that translates into problems from day one should you get elected.

    I would like to vote for somebody who can actually get things done for the Coles District. Supervisor Nohe has taken a lot of heat on a lot of issues that I frankly don’t care about; however, I have noticed that the “heat” often arises from cooperating with his colleagues on the Board to actually get things done rather than walk away leaving legislative gridlock. I remember that he quietly developed the alternative to redistricting that broke a deadlock on the board (and, Ironically, put you in a position to run against him).

    Supervisor Nohe does a lot of things that I don’t like. Those Discretionary Funds drive me “crazy” and you could put a halt to the Wartime Museum tomorrow without hurting my feelings (and yes, I notice that you are against both of those things). That being said, the fact that BVBL is your biggest advocate “scares the hell” out of me… the fact that you are perhaps “pandering to folks who don’t even live in the Coles District” by signing the Rural Crescent Pledge amuses me, and the fear that should you get elected we will enter a four year period of non-cooperation by the Board on Coles District issues frankly gives me pause.

  17. Mom

    Immigrant, your premise presumes that the other seven members are all re-elected. Stirrup isn’t running and Wally has a challenger. I suspect that Mr. Pugh shares many positions with Jeanine Lawson and at least one of the Gainesville candidates. Should those three be successful in their campaigns it is likely that they would often assume similar postures on issues, postures that given his history, Supervisor May would likely support. Thus, you would have a four member bloc. Given that Caddigan doesn’t have a spine or moral compass and will cast her vote with whomever she perceives as having the greatest chance of prevailing on a particular issue, Voila, no gridlock. Just one of many scenarios that we will have to watch play out.

  18. Immigrant – I disagree with you strongly that the Rural Crescent and the other economic development issues I’m running on are not relevant to Coles District citizens, and that a Supervisor who holds those views won’t be able to accomplish anything on the Board. If that is how you feel, you should support Mr. Nohe. I appreciate your taking time to consider my platform.

    By the way, googling my name yields numerous hits on Moonhowlings and other blogs in addition to BVBL. I pride myself on trying to understand what everyone is thinking.

  19. Welcome Michael High. You are the first Gainesville District candidate to stop by. I will make sure Elena sees your website and email address. We hope you will post often.

    Both Elena and I live in the Gainesville District.

  20. IVAN

    @ Bob

    Reading blogs to understand what others are thinking is admirable. However, posting on blogs to advance an agenda puts you on a slippery slope. On the other blog you are the candidate that will help them get Marte off the board. I dought seriously if your platform is of any interest. The question is if you succeed in unseating Marte, will someonr be holding your lease and expecting you to adopt their agenda.

  21. Where might a reader locate a map that illustrates where the rural crescent actually is?

    Immigrant, the supporters of the Rural Crescent would say that what happens there affects the entire county.

  22. Censored bybvbl

    Bob Pugh, as an Independent who lives in Coles district and leans left of center, I’m looking for the Republican party to choose a candidate without a rigid social agenda. I admire Marty’s willingness to look for compromises since the BOCS represents government at its closest and it shouldn’t look to punish those who aren’t party adherents but make an attempt to responsibly represent all of us.

    I agree with you that we need more restraint when it comes to residential growth in the county. We shouldn’t be making it quite so easy for developers to grab our tax dollars to support the schools and roads made necessary by overbuilding. I also recognize the restraints the state places upon localities.

    I, too, was disgusted by the way Greg L. and HSM whipped up anti-immigrant hysteria a few years ago and also dislike the gutter- approach to politics which he employs. I realize that you have no control over what he posts, but I would hope you’d approach him privately and encourage him not to label your potential constituents as nuts. It does your cause, which I could partially support, no good.

  23. @IVAN

    IVAN – that is a great question and I can say absolutely no. My campaign website reflects my views alone. That’s what I’ll be going into office with. I’m not seeking a political career and have many meaningful things in my life other than elected office. Please read my biography. I have built a solid reputation and served in numerous leadership roles in my profession. I’m active as a lay leader in my church, and serve in many other roles. I’m trying to set a good example for my three kids. If people like what I’m saying and chose to elect me, I will gladly serve. If not, so be it. If I am in office I will follow my own values and beliefs.

    Will I talk to Corey, Greg, Moon, Elena and anyone else who wants to provide their input? Absolutely. I’m always open to hearing what others have to say. At the end of the day, however, what I do is what I think is right.

    I think you should pose the same question to Marty. Look at his campaign contributions (www.vpap.org) and compare the interests of most of his donors to his voting record.

  24. @Moon-howler
    I plan to visit often. I am treating this primary as a 60 day job interview for the citizens of Prince William County so I will answer questions and visit with anybody who desires.

  25. Raymond Beverage

    Moon-howler :Where might a reader locate a map that illustrates where the rural crescent actually is?
    Immigrant, the supporters of the Rural Crescent would say that what happens there affects the entire county.

    Map with the Rural Area from PWC website:
    http://www.pwcgov.org/planning/documents/MAP_10C_LRLU5280.pdf

  26. @Michael

    Thanks. We are glad you are here.

    Raymond, thanks. I think I am too stupid to read the legend.

  27. Raymond Beverage

    Moon, not stupid – that map is just filled in way, way too much. Had to increase the size of it to even find that rural boundry they were talking about. But basically, all the cream-sorta color is the “rural” area.

  28. clueless

    @Immigrant

    The fight over the rural crescent affects everyone in Prince William County. If the rural area continues to be overwhelmed by new housing we will need even more schools. I am pretty sure we can’t afford what we already need (imagine that), more roads and other expensive government services. The additional suburbanites will be commuting with you and all of the other local suburbanites (new and old) to DC so we may as well double the lane miles in the County. None of this affects you or your family in the Coles District?

    I do not agree with the majority of the current Supervisors on immigration. I am thankful that they have no real say in the issue. They do have the ability to protect or destroy the remaining undeveloped land in the County.

  29. Elena

    Welcome to Moonhowlings Michael High! I sent the pledges out hard copy. I will send an electronic copy to your posted e-mail. I am in the process of updating the ruralcrescent webpage and will be posting all the signed pledges there along with any comments you include.

    Warmly,
    Elena

  30. RV

    Well, the 2011 campaign season is underway. Let the fun begin.

  31. Wolverine

    You guys on Moonhowlings are coming late to this blog political game. This has been going on for months in Loudoun. The difference seems to be that most of the actual candidates here avoid posting on the blogs or responding to other posts, if just to avoid being drawn into eternal spitting contests.

    1. @Wolverine,

      We are coming to the table differntly. The redistricting in PWC threw everything up in the air. The cards have just be resorted. I believe PWC has 5 different state senate districts within its borders. How idiotic.

      We aren’t going to have the usual bitching and feather ruffling on this blog. We are all about issues and not weasel words. Candidates may request a guest post or just comment. We welcome honest debate. We won’t approve ad hominen attacks.

  32. Wolverine

    Be nice if you can make it work that way. I think our candidates are gunshy about the blogs because people do not hold back much on their opinions about each other or candidates when interfacing. When reproached about the nastiness of ad hominem attacks, many just claim that this is the way of the blogs, so you have to live with it. Quite frankly, I think the candidates themselves see that and decide no way are they going to get involved personally in those frays. I don’t blame them. Once or twice when a candidate did venture onto the blogs, he got head slapped pretty fast by some who didn’t like him.

    That doesn’t help. One of our prelim battles is between three Republicans vying for the party convention nomination to face the incumbent Sheriff, a Republican turned independent for the previous election. This is more important than a PWC race for the same office because our Sheriff is your PWC Police and county sheriff all wrapped into one. Since I worked for many years with foreign counterterrorist police and trained many of them and since I have been working on Neighborhood Watch with local deputies for over five years now, I have tried several times to draw the candidates out to discuss specifics with regard to their views of the performance and needs of law enforcement in this county. So far, I haven’t been able to get a danged response from any of them. Gets frustrating.

  33. Immigrant

    Mr. Pugh,

    You mentioned that you will go to Moon and Elena for their input (presumably for advice on land use issues). Since I assume that neither actually live in the Coles District (correct me if I’m wrong), that bothers me. The more important question is, will you go to the BVBL crowd for advice on Immigration issues? Other issues?

    As a Coles District Resident, I am concerned that you have apparently surrounded yourself with folks who hold positions many people in the County consider extreme for input. You stated that you will make your own decisions; however, you gave us a clue on your thought process when you signed the Rural Crescent pledge. That fact that these folks don’t actually live in the Coles District (I believe) is an even larger issue.

    Ttis implies you will appoint people to boards and commissions who perhaps reflect these views. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Do you anticipate changes to the current Coles District appointments? Do you have some candidate names for your appointments to give is an idea of how you plan to influence the future of the Coles District? Prince William County?

    These are fair questions based upon the blogs you have chosen to communicate with your potential future constituents.

  34. Immigrant, I believe that Mr. Pugh said he would talk to us. In other words, if he would consider my input like any other resident. I think supervisors should listen to all county residents, even ones I do not agreen with. What these supervisors do affect all of us. I certainly blasted all of them about the Grizzly fields and Silver Lake.

    I believe the way you have your question posed, it seems that you mean serving in an advisement capacity. I really don’t think that is what he meant. Now, let me strongly state that Elena knows a great deal about land use issues since she has been involved in that movement since coming to the county more than a decade ago. I would hope that ALL our supervisors would seek her advice on issues involving land use if they had questions.

    I would hope none would seek mine. I am not an expert or even close. What difference does it make where Elena lives as to county land use? What happens in the rural crescent affects the entire county. If you slap in 300 new houses, you obviously need a school or 2 to house the kids who will be living in those houses. Who pays for that school? The people of PWC, not the people of Coles district.

    Your question implies Elena and I are extremist. I am curious what I am an extremist about. I may regret asking this question.

    And for the record, Elena is the go to person on land use and the Rural Crescent. I am not. I support her efforts is my only role. I do not live in the RC and am not an expert in any capacity.

  35. Wolverine, I actually don’t blame the candidates. Elena and I want to elevate the election conversation. I would just take ad hominem attacks down. I never promised anyone non-censorship. Quite the contrary actually.

    Alanna tried it on anti-bvbl and was treated like a dog for her efforts. I watched how people continually abused her good nature and good will and decided that moonhowlings would just not have that much trust in human nature.

  36. Immigrant

    moon (if I may be son bold as to call you such),

    That’s a fair question. Virginia is a very conservative state. Property rights (a persons right to do what he may with his property as long as he causes no harm to his neighbors) is one of those traditional Conservative values. I’m one of those folks. The Rural Crescent pledge and the associated rhetoric is an attempt by a small group of people who perhaps don’t even live in the area in question to tell others what they may do with their property. It presupposes the failure of Government to develop and apply adequate transportation, infrastructure, education, and revenue sources (taxes) or negotiate proper proffers with developers. It also dismisses the idea of development that actually enhances water quality and the environment by applying current research and technology to the design process.

    The alternatives proposed by those who support the Rural Crescent Pledge that it’s ok to tell people where to live (close together, perhaps in clusters, condos, apartments)’ or work (don’t commute to those high paying jobs… It “messes up traffic”) and perhaps suggests they should live somewhere else than Prince William County.

    Simply put, I believe the emphasis should be on correcting problems with County processes that apply to development to ensure that all new development is environmentally friendly, timed to allow for schools and infrastructure, properly served by adequate transportation, and supported by developer pro offers soothe taxpayers don’t “pick up the tab”. I would suggest we are ten or twenty years behind in this area… And a pledge to “catch up” might be more in order.

    The Rural Crescent pledge is, in my opinion, an unrealistic attempt to tell other people what they may do with their property, where they should live, or how they should live. The fact that it was quickly abandoned by many of those who signed it is evidence that perhaps it was i’ll conceived. I give Supervisor Nohe credit for not signing it (or making a promise to get elected) and note he ran unopposed last time… And still enjoyed a large turnout of Coles District folks (like me) whom believe in his pragmatic approach to Governance.

    If I remember correctly, you appreciated his pragmatic approach during the immigration debate of 2007.

    So… Focusing on telling people what they may do with their land or where and how they live using dire predictions based upon the assumption that local Government won’t do it’s job is extreme to me. The fact that Elena is leading this “Charge” makes her an “Extremist” by my definition (and this doesn’t imply she is a bad person… I’m sure that she is a very nice person, that her heart is in the right place and she thinks she is doing the right thing.). The fact that land use decisions in Prince William County tend to favor letting people enjoy the economic benefit of their property and live where and how they wish (within applicable zoning regulations… Perhaps the real issue?) tells me this kind of thinking does not represent most Prince William County residents.

    I apologize if i incorrectly assumed you shared Elena’s beliefs in this area if that is not the case (and am sure you are also a very nice, well intended person). I hope I caused no regret regarding your asking the question. I don’t really check blogs that often. Should you reply, it may be a while before I respond.

  37. All those questions are fair ones. I make no claims to knowing anything in particular about land use and always defer those kinds of questions to Elena. I do support her efforts as far as this blog is concerned.

    As for Marty, of course I have always appreciated his reasonable approach to immigration. I have also always defended him for not signing the rural crescent pledge if he doesn’t agree with it. Unlike some of the supervisors who shall go unnamed, Marty didn’t sign it because he probably didn’t agree with all or part or perhaps he didn’t want to be locked in.

    I should probably repeat this: When Mr. Pugh guest posted here, Elena called Marty (I would have done it had she not volunteered) and told him and also invited him to guest post on our blog. He thanked her and assured her he would. I think he is walking neighborhoods this weekend. That certainly reaches more people.

    I don’t live in the RC. I am in the town part of the county–city folks (lower case c not upper case C). I don’t have the same vested interest in RC issues as Elena. I believe in smart growth. Looking down at Flat Branch and knowing that we had an entire community under water during Hurricane Agnes is proof of the need for smart growth, rather than approving houses to be built in a flood plain like was done 45-50 years ago.

    Conversely, I understand your point of view, while not necessarily agreeing with it. I have said many times that my issues really don’t all hinge on the RC. I tend to take it issue by issue rather than as an entire concept.

    Sometimes people assume that you aren’t for conservation if you don’t buy into RC hook, line and sinker. In my case, that simply isn’t true. One of MY pet projects is the National Park Service. It preserves our history and culture for our posterity. I think what I am saying is we all have our special interests. RC just isn’t my sword to fall on but I will serve in a support role. I hope that answer made some sense. It was in my head but it was not all that easy to say.

    In closing, I can deal with someone who doesn’t sign the pledge. That isn’t a deal breaker for me. I can’t deal with someone who signs and then breaks their promise 6 ways to Sunday,

    And one more thing, if I could plug my own special interest in the county: What has happened at Silver Lake makes me sick. I do not like the favorism shown one organization over all others and I do not like a middle school being built less than 100 yards away from the lake. Once again, PWC gets a good thing and F**********s it all up. Not putting trash cans out is just stupid.

    Aren’t you sorry you asked?

  38. Elena

    Immigrant,
    County zoning, i.e the Comprehensive Plan tells all residents how property can be developed or not developed. The Rural Crescent is no different than land that is zoned business, commercial, SRR, or the other multitude of land use designations. I am not sure what your point is actually. How can a county plan for needed infrastructure if there is no dependable long range land use plan.

    write more later, I am on the beach! I love having discussions about land use 🙂

  39. Raymond Beverage

    Moon-howler :@Wolverine,
    We are coming to the table differntly. The redistricting in PWC threw everything up in the air. The cards have just be resorted. I believe PWC has 5 different state senate districts within its borders. How idiotic.

    Moon, 5 Senate and 8 House. For the Senate: 13th (no incumbant as District was shifted from another location in State), 28th (Sen. Stuart), 29th (Sen. Colgan), 36th (Sen. Puller) and 39th (Sen. Barker).

    For the House: 2nd (Del. Phillips), 13th (Del. Marshall), 31st (Del. Lingamfelter), 40th (Del. Hugo), 50th (Del. Miller), 51st (Del. Anderson), 52nd (Del. Torian) and the new 87th (same deal as the 13th Senate one).

    Nice slicing up, eh?

    1. Slice and dice like I have never seen. I didn’t even address the 8 house districts because I just wasn’t sure how many there were.

      Actually I think what happened should be illegal. The governor should have never signed it. I think it was to confuse people so the most dedicated would lead the charge and the rest of us would be still sitting there scratching our heads after election day.

      This brings a new dimension to divide and conquor.

  40. From WTOP’s website this morning:

    “But there’s big money in building new homes with big, grassy yards well away from the madding urban streets.

    Without roads, those developments can’t be built. So Virginia’s real estate, construction and development industry pays dearly to protect itself in Richmond.

    Since 2001, no industry sector other than political parties and political action committees themselves has come close to matching the nearly $64 million that real estate, construction and developers gave legislative and statewide candidates, according to the Virginia Public Access Project. Even during the real estate and construction slump since 2008, the sector has retained its top ranking.”

    Add to that willing to pay up with campaign contributions in Prince William County also:

    http://www.vpap.org/candidates/profile/money_in_industry1/34565?end_year=2011&filter_schedule=all&locality=all&lookup_type=year&start_year=2003&zip_code=all

  41. ok… With so many Supervisor seats and the Chairman up for re-election this time, why the focus on Marty Nohe and the Coles District? Did you invite all of the other candidates to post here? I “get” that a Supervisor impacts more than his District; however, considering that most folks here don’t live in the Coles District, Marty “was not alone” in the votes Mr. Pugh (and I assume the principals here) objects to, and isn’t the only guy to get developer contributions, it appears that you have taken an unusual interest in this race.

    Considering he “was there when you needed him once (and shared a lot of the same abuse that some of you shared)”, why?

    Bob, you missed an interesting quote in today’s Manassas News and Messenger, “The lucrative jobs of Washington and the corporate office-tower canyons of Arlington, Alexandria, and Fairfax County are the economic engine of Virginia. Average per-capita income in those localities in slightly more than double the state average, and they account for 36% of all the state’s non-farm jobs. And as the state’s population pushed from 7 million to nearly 8 million over the past decade, the bulk settled in Northern Virginia, drawn by such growing fields as technology, defense, and government contracting and-since Sep 11, 2001-Homeland Security.” (Northern Virginia road projects get gridlocked, 27 June 2011).

    You don’t appear to understand Prince William County’s role in “the economic engine of Virginia” our how our residents benefit from this relationship. I believe that Prince William County is the 16th richest County in the United States – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States (and certainly one of the richest in Virginia). While you focus on the fact that our average service salaries are low compared to the rest of Virginia, you miss (perhaps intentionally) that our educated, professional workforce and our community benefits from our relationship with our neighbors to the north and we are really “doing ok”. Furthermore, our residents “choose” to live here and commute to those high paying jobs. 62% of PWC employed residents travel outside of the county (and/or must cross the county) to work each day. Of that 62%, 22.6% spend 30-59 minutes and 39.4% spend 60+ minutes driving to and/or from work. – See page 6 of Prince William County Demographics http://www.pwcgov.org. While we complain about the commute (I was one of those commuters for many years), we “cry all the way to the bank”. I have noticed that the folks who often offer land use criticism and obstruct road construction (like the Tri-County Parkway) tend to not be among those commuters.

    I have often believed that Prince William County’s highly skilled, highly compensated commuting population doesn’t receive the attention it deserves. Ironically, they aren’t available during the day to fight for roads and favorable land use planning because of that commute. This leaves those who “don’t” commute and have the luxury of time and perhaps a local job (or no job) to fight for keeping things the way they are. As part of the D.C. Metro area (which is really a better way of thinking) we need to think regionally and plan for a future that recognizes and plan for the growth that is coming to this region (emphasis on region) instead of focusing on our County borders. These borders become more meaningless as solutions to a range of problems (environmental, transportation, development) require more holistic thinking. We have to “frame” problems differently. It’s not about Prince William County or the Rural Crescent anymore. It’s about Northern Virginia.

    It’s been a while since I’ve posted… never really stopped reading. As I told you once in person, Moon, I’ve always appreciated your excellent reporting. I just couldn’t pass up commenting on this thread. ta ta…

  42. Al – I understand Prince William County’s role in the “economic engine of the Virginia” quite well. We’re the bedroom. The only reason our County has so much wealth is that people participate in a mass exodus every morning to other jurisdictions. Even the regional planners continue to see Prince William as the bedroom going forward, with the best jobs going elsewhere. This sort of development must be changed!

    I support road improvements that improve the quality of life of our residents, but oppose developer roads. You were very eloquent on your own blog about why we don’t need the Purcell Road widening. I agree with you completely on what you said.

    Acquisition of rights of way and construction were on the Board’s Consent Agenda June 7. I saw it on Monday and notified some of the residents who had spoken out about it. Neither Mr. Nohe nor staff had told them anything about it. Some hurriedly organized to send emails and speak at Citizens Time. Only then did Mr. Nohe pull it.

    The Purcell Road widening, a project benefitting developers only, has been in the Comprehensive Plan for years, and funding is now in the CIP. You know all of this. You wrote it on your own blog. The item on the Consent Agenda June 7 would have allowed construction to start soon. Mr. Nohe only changed his view when he got caught trying to slip it through on June 7 without notifying anyone.

    We must move beyond Prince William County’s bad old way of doing things, which means taking massive amounts of developer money, serving their interests over those of the citizens of Prince William County, and allowing our economic development to continue as a rising-tax bedroom community.

    Regarding the other supervisors, and their votes and campaign contributions; I’m running against Mr. Nohe. If you have issues with the others, please ask them about it. However, I can’t buy into the idea that if someone else did something, it’s then OK for Mr. Nohe to do it also.

  43. @Al Alborn

    ok… With so many Supervisor seats and the Chairman up for re-election this time, why the focus on Marty Nohe and the Coles District? Did you invite all of the other candidates to post here? I “get” that a Supervisor impacts more than his District; however, considering that most folks here don’t live in the Coles District, Marty “was not alone” in the votes Mr. Pugh (and I assume the principals here) objects to, and isn’t the only guy to get developer contributions, it appears that you have taken an unusual interest in this race.

    Considering he “was there when you needed him once (and shared a lot of the same abuse that some of you shared)”, why?

    Marty Nohe has been personally invited by the administration of Moonhowlings to post and respond to remarks here. He graciously accepted our invitation and plans to do so.

    He will verify that we have extended that invitation. In fact, if you read back through the thread you will see that we announced that we had done that.

    I have not contacted the Democratic candidate to extend an invitation for him to comment. If he feels the need to guest post before the primary, he can contact us.

    I suspect Bob Pugh keeps mentioning Mr. Nohe because he is running against him.

    I am all in favor of candidates being able to debate issues rather than hurl insults. Providing space for candidates to get their message out is one way we serve the community. If you recall, the same opportunities were given to you over a year ago. Even though you weren’t a candidate running for office, you had a message and space was provided.

    We are no more interested in the Coles District than we are any of the other 6 districts. We have a relationship with both of the Republican candidates for supervisor. Let’s not stir up friction where there is none.

  44. Censored bybvbl

    @Al Alborn

    Most people in PWC’s highly educated and commuting population own computers. There’s nothing stopping them from firing off an email or two to their supervisors about issues of importance to them. In fact I know many who find time to be involved in their neighborhood organizations. Why try to discredit the opinions of those with more time available who may want things to remain as they are. One of the charms of this county is that there still is a rural feel to some of it.

    We may need to work as a region to solve some problems, but we shouldn’t ignore the problems that come with over development. I live mid-county and all of the neighboring subdivisions with their teenage drivers, their elderly drivers, their commuters, etc. have to wait patiently to get half-way out on rt. 234 in the morning and hope they don’t get creamed by some distracted driver while waiting for an opening in on-coming traffic. Maybe when Davis Ford Road is four lane without traffic lights, you’ll understand our disgust with the amount of traffic. Now you want us to put up with the commuters from Loudoun and Stafford as well by building the Tri-County Parkway! Build it and more of them will come – just like the developers.

    We should concentrate on bringing decent jobs and more public transportation to PWC so that people don’t have to make such long commutes.

  45. Mom

    “I have noticed that the folks who often offer land use criticism and obstruct road construction (like the Tri-County Parkway) tend to not be among those commuters.”

    I call “Bullshit”, many of the loudest and most involved critics are those same commuters. These comments wouldn’t be colored by your positions on Corey’s task force or budget committee would they? The Tri-County Parkway is an abomination and tremendous waste of resources that could be utilized to correct existing deficiences rather than creating new ones. At one time you expressed grave concern with regard to its environmental impact. What’s changed?

  46. Mom

    By the same token, you are partially correct in that “those who “don’t” commute and have the luxury of time and perhaps a local job (or no job) to fight for keeping things the way they are. The only problem is that which they wish to protect is the current developer controlled land-use review and development practices in PWC. Review the tape of any public hearing on a controversial/questionable rezoning and you will see an organized queue of Chamber members, developers, builiders and often employees from outside of the county, extolling the virtues of the proposal, regardless the know short-term and long-term negatives.

  47. When I moved to Prince William County in 1996 I came for a job that required me to commute to McLean, and I later worked in Annandale. I’m familiar with the commute and know it’s gotten much worse. Since I moved here, I-66 has been widened from Centreville to Gainesville, and the Rt. 234 Bypass has opened. Even with those needed improvements, the congestion still gets worse.

    The only reason for the congestion and lack of good jobs in Prince William County is that our Board of Supervisors has rubber stamped approval of virtually everything the residential developers have sought for the past two or three decades. We’re in the plans of the developers and regional planners to continue to develop as Northern Virginia’s bedroom. They do this because the residential development industry pours massive amounts of campaign funding into elections from Prince William County to Richmond. They are getting what they pay for.

    I was later one of the lucky few who was able to find a job that paid well, allowed me to do what I enjoy and employ my skills and interests, and not have to drive far from home. I left that job to start my own business in Prince William County. I want more Prince William County residents to have the same opportunities. How many people commuting every day would not rejoice at the prospect of having an opportunity such as I did, have a rewarding career, earn a good income, work close to home and not face rising taxes, crowded roads, and congested schools?

    We’re not going to get there when we see something like this:

    http://www.vpap.org/candidates/profile/money_in_industry1/34565?end_year=2011&filter_schedule=all&locality=all&lookup_type=year&start_year=2003&zip_code=all

    That’s what my campaign is all about, and I’m striving to keep it on message.

  48. @Moon-howler \
    Sorry to have bothered you… won’t be back. You still do some good reporting. ta ta.

    1. @Al, you didn’t bother me. I just wanted to set the record straight. You made some inquiries and I addressed them. No one asked you to leave.

  49. Mom

    Seems a little thin-skinned for somebody who essentially did a drive-by and loosed a clip at Bob.

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