Rachel Maddow has given us a little history on Bob McDonnell’s tenure in Virginia and how he has gravitated towards the centrist position on raising the debt ceiling:
It isn’t so much that McDonnell is a centrist. It is that he got kicked in the teeth with the reality of what will happen to Virginia should August 2 happen without legislation.
Are you prepared for Virginia, with its pride in fiscal responsibility, to be one of the first off the cliff and lose its Triple A bond rating? I, for one, am not.
Tea-jaddists are not winning the war of words with anyone but their base and I hear that is getting a little shakey. There is a certain arrogance in assuming that one knows all the answers to not just the US economy but also to the global economy.
Where is the Tea Bagger outrage against this Socialist McDonnell???
I expect he will pay. Fortunately, Virginia has enough mainstream Republicans to overcome those who would destroy the country.
If there is a “certain arrogance in assuming that one knows all the answers to not just the US economy but also to the global economy,” I would posit then that what we have here is one “arrogance” pitted against another “arrogance.”
There is a certain arrogance in assuming that one knows all the answers to not just the US economy but also to the global economy.
Yep. So we Teajadists are completely against the idea of a centralized economy. Which party is it that supports the idea that certain people have all the answers….oh that’s right…the progressives. And where do they tend to hang out… yeah…the Democrats.
Well, as its been said, socialism works until one runs out of other peoples’ money.
Also, you keep talking about those who would destroy the country and I’m assuming that you mean the Tea Party.
Please, tell me how we are going to do that? I mean, as opposed to how the current ideas on constant increasing spending, government control, and borrowing money will save the country?
Cutting spending is going to destroy the country? Really? You really think that? We can’t cut one thin dime from the budget? 1%? And I don’t mean cuts in the rate of increased spending. I mean, cutting the amount being spent, compared to last year.
If Virginia is damaged by the failure of Congress to treat spending seriously, so be it. Then, maybe, people will start to realize that we don’t have any more money.
The Tea Party is not against McDonnell, but, he’s not a Tea Party candidate. He’s managed the finances pretty well, and will get even more credit if he pays the VRS back as soon as possible.
Not passing the debt ceiling is going to destroy the economy. I actually don’t really care to hear about the budget or anything else other than the debt ceiling has been raised. That’s all its about right this minute. Spin and obfucation have gone on long enough.
Virginia will be damaged if the debt ceiling is not raised. period.
Tea-jadists….LOL That is a new one for me :>)
YOu know, I am SO SICK of Barney Frank being the financial guru he claims to be. He was one of those magnificent politicos who encouraged the “get a home, even if you think you cannot afford it” era of the early 00’s.
F you Barney Frank. Before every Bust, he is cheerring on the boom….and once the bust happens he likes to point fingers…..carefully omitting his involvement in the mess.
Before the housing boom there was the personal property loan boom for manufactured housing in the 90’s…and guess what happened then (hint: it’s identical to what happened when the housing market went bust) AND GUESS who was a cheerleader then….
We need some new, independent blood in DC who can work for the people instead of for themselves….and I mean this for BOTH parties….
Actually he wasn’t the main event. McDonnell was. I just couldn’t get the video doctored.
Tea-jadists and Tea Bagger… Glad to see the civil tone 🙂
FYI… Rachel Maddow (aka Eli Manning) lost ALL of her credibility with the Weiner situation. She was contacted first about the story, she did nothing. Didn’t mention it, didn’t look into it, nothing. She is just your typical political hack doing the White House’s bidding just like everyone on MSDNC (just look up why Cenk Uygur left).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrKKkGl3TnY
Dan, no one is holding you hear at gun point. Vamos!
Cargo, stop putting words in my mouth. You don’t work for Faux News.
Raising the debt ceiling is the only thing congress has to do now. Even Faux News polls show that Congress will get the blame if our economy goes in to default. Fight out the budget fairly and squarely. Raise the debt ceiling. Yes, those 60 people are going to destroy the country.
@Moon-howler
I’m not putting words in your mouth.
You’ve written about those that would destroy the country while talking about the Tea Party and those that insist on cuts.
I have said that those who will not vote to raise the debt ceiling are attempting a power play that will destroy the country.
I NEVER said spending cuts would destroy the country. Lets make a deal to stop mixing up budget with debt ceiling. One shouldnt be held as hostage by the other.
@Moon-howler
Apparently its the progressives that don’t want the debt ceiling raised so that their political enemies will get the blame and they’ve convince the President to move the goal posts, ask for ADDITIONAL taxes, and then HE walked away.
Just as I’ve said.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/deficit-negotiations-collapse-%E2%80%94-are-progressives-cheering/
http://www.therightscoop.com/boehner-its-obama-who-walked-away-at-the-last-minute/
The debt limit debacle is all about the Democrats trying to set precedent that the gov’t should always raise taxes to match spending instead of cutting spending. Its about the Democrats playing class warfare. Its about the Democrats and Obama putting the party first.
That’s what happens when you read from a non-neutral point of view and accept it as gospel.
I suffered a weird experience tonight. I watched the Pres give him ‘all deals are off’ speech, including the questions. then I listed to a Faux News symposium. for the life of me, it was like they were talking about something totally different. There really was a reality check there for a minute–what I had heard vs what the foxies were discussing.
I don’t know what to tell you. I want to know exactly what is happening and I don’t want spin. The post show I watched was not more accurate than the man in the moon.
So how is McDonnell fairing? Do we love him or hate him? I don’t much care why he wants to not go into default, just so he doesn’t.
He sees the reality of the situation. It isn’t good for the state or the country.
McDonnell is doing ok. Better than most.
But just wait… Cuccinelli is coming….. 👿 bwahahahahaha!
I wonder how Cargo is going to feel when he doesn’t get his military retirement check. And if he is drawing any VA diusability, how he will feel when he doesn’t get that check either. Maybe someone from the Tea Party will make him a no interest loan or grant.
I will feel bad. But, hey…that’s life. If you depend upon the government for your money, you have to realize that they may stop paying you.
I get disability. But, if we have no more money, and borrowing more is insane, perhaps we need to prioritize spending. That’s what Congress is supposed to do. So, if they want to stop disability and/or retirement checks, they have to justify it. And if they get enough votes to pass a budget that defunds those things, well,….that’s politics. And then they have to live with the consequence of THOSE actions. It might be a little hard to recruit if the gov’t stops paying those things. But, if that’s ok with Congress…… I guess we’d be able to sell all those nice toys to China…
I put my money where my mouth is. I’m the one stating we need to put EVERYTHING on the table and prioritize. This insane borrowing puts our national security at risk.
@Cargo, your world vision is very different from most of us here. I find your America totally unacceptable.
And we have been borrowing since the formation of this country. You can give up your govt. entitlement. I will not give mine up without a huge fight.
I paid in to mine for years and years. I am not sure I even look at it as an entitlement. Pay back might be a better word.
are you referring to what little is left of the economy that electing Obama hasn’t already destroyed.
are you referring to what little is left of the economy that electing Obama hasn’t already destroyed.
@Moon-howler
How is my America unacceptable according to the description in #19? And I’m not “giving up” my pay. I’ll fight for it. I earned it.
All I’m saying is that Congress needs to prioritize and spend sensibly. I didn’t say what to cut. You may even get the totality of all the entitlement spending. You might get all the programs you want.
But if my America is unacceptable, are you saying that exponential growth in spending is acceptable? Do we borrow and borrow and borrow? I truly don’t understand what you are saying. What is it that you want?
Yes, we’ve been borrowing. And we’ve haven’t really gone crazy with it until now. So, is this level of borrowing acceptable to you? Our income in all taxes is about 18% of GDP. Historically, our spending is about 20%. Now its approaching 25%. And the interest on this debt will grow and grow.
So, tell me. What’s your solution?
Cargo,
Do you plan on going to a barter system to buy food when you don’t your checks?
What about all those government contractors that are unable to hire new employees? Does anyone have a calculation on the instant job loss when don’t have the money to pay our bills?
@Elena
Obviously, it is is irrelevant as long as they get rid of the dreaded Obama. Cargo must think that he has the straight scoop from God and the rest of us are reading the demon newspaper. Yes, Demoncrats evil. Tea-jaddist Republicans good. Sit at right hand of God. 🙄
Cato, the average person doesn’t have the luxury of watching the market go into another free-fall. And that does nothing to help out a 401k.
Obama destroyed Slow? REALLY! Do you have amnesia of what he inherited? Do you have amnesia regarding the Bush years and out of control spending? does medicare part D ring any bells? Does the medicare presecription drug plan ring any bells? One of my all time favorites is Dick Cheney saying Iraq oil will pay for the war…………..BAWAAAAAA, that is truly a funny one.
How about this bizarre solution, the tea party extremists start learning that good governance is about compromise and do what the left will be required to do, give some! Why are you so intent on protecting oil companies and millionairs? In case you didnt realize, you aint one of those rich fat cats!
The problem with Obama and this recession, he can’t use the housing industry as his boom, he can’t cut taxes any more than they are, Bush used all those tools and now here we are, in a real crisis, and we have to do something different this time.
Iraq oil would have paid for the oil. Congress killed the deal. Another country ended up getting the contract.
“and we have to do something different this time.”
Hey! I have an idea! And its completed different from what went before! Cut spending! You said it yourself. Bush almost doubled the debt, adding 5 trillion in 8 years. Obama’s added 4 trillion in almost 3 years.
So, like you said, lets do something different.
“How about this bizarre solution, the tea party extremists start learning that good governance is about compromise and do what the left will be required to do, give some!”
Ok, lets compromise. They make REAL cuts, not future cuts, and they get to raise taxes. Oh, wait…… they want to raise taxes anyway and Republicans are ALREADY agreeing to that. See the latest deal….the one that OBAMA walked away from because he ADDED 400 billion in taxes at the last moment.
Protecting millionaires and oil companies? What about GE? They paid NO taxes AND got a refund. But that’s ok. They’re not a energy company. They sit on Obama’s government advisory council……
Have you seen the taxes that the Gang of Six want to implement? Its all about taxing the middle class. Because the politicians know that there are not enough millionaires to make a dent in the interest of the debt, much less pay for the deficit.
@Moon-howler
You know, you keep asking me questions. I’m going to answer them.
I take what you write and answer it. And yet, no one answers my questions. I keep reading all of these opinions that the country will destruct if the debt limit isn’t raised. I keep reading that the Tea Party is doing nothing more than protecting millionaires.
But when I point out what is actually going on, sometimes with links, I get ridiculed that I must have the “scoop right from God.”
Why is compromise always “do what the Democrats want to do?”
Well, where are you getting your scoop from? Because all I hear are criticisms about the GOP and the Tea Party, and yet, its the Democrats involved too. Why aren’t they being criticized for obstructionism?
Are you that enamored of more taxes for taxation sake? Because what the Democrats propose will do nothing to ease the debt, and we WILL eventually default.
Compromise is give and take. It isn’t obeying the Democrats. Why do I even need to point this out? You know what compromise is.
Actually, as far as the debt ceiling, there should be no compromise. Pass the thing. Thats all there is to it. Just pass it. We need to do it to operate the country.
I basically hear facts and then form my own opinion based on what I have heard. Sometimes I pick it off the foxie roxies, sometimes from mnbc, cnn, local stations, etc. I read very few opinion pieces.
I am for more taxes or shoring up loop holes if that is what it takes to keep the burden off the middle class and the seniors. I don’t have a single problem getting the millionaires to pony up a little more. If there is someone who wants to create jobs, then give them a few tax credits so they don’t get hosed. Seems fair to me. I don’t want to cripple them. A 1% is not going to hurt them as much as a 1% would hurt me and it will help the country a lot more.
And yes, I do blame the tea-jaddists and their silly pledge for this. Absolutely. I don’t blame all Republicans. Just the cowardly ones.
What is it that the Democrats have proposed that won’t ease the debt? I don’t think we will default unless the tea-jaddists make it happen. I hope Obama just raises it as an executive order.
No, it isn’t ok if GE does it. Why would it be ok for GE to not pay taxes?
What taxes did Republicans agree to raise?
Do you consider doing away with exemptions a tax hike?
Yes. I consider doing away with exemptions, credits, etc a tax hike. If you pay more in taxes, you pay a tax hike.
Compromise in the the current narrative always seems to be, “Hey you evil GOP. You need to do what we want so that you can be moderate. Because we Democrats are all moderates. There’s no extremists in our bunch. So jump on board.”
You know, like McCain. He was a maverick until he ran against his buddies. Then he was the enemy. No Democrats compromise with the Right unless they are dragged kicking and screaming. And then, the GOP are lambasted. Its never “bi-partisan” when Democrats vote on GOP bills…its that the Dems were forced or tricked. But if the Dems lock out the GOP, literally, force through bills against protests, against polling that shows that Americans are against the bill, then…that’s statesmanship.
You keep repeating a 1% increase in taxes on millionaires when you absolutely know that the taxes that are coming are NOT what you are advocating. Its a straw argument.
Why is it cowardly for conservatives to oppose reckless spending? When the Democrats refuse to negotiate in good faith, why is it the GOP that gets the blame?
Obama cannot raise it by executive order. The executive branch does decide what gets paid first, though. So if we default, its HIS fault.
Since you are so adamant that we need to raise the debt limit, shouldn’t the Democrats just push for a higher limit? Why are they just asking for $2 trillion. Everyone knows that we’re just going to need to push it higher within 2 years…..or less. All Obama wants to do is push hard decisions down the road until after the election.
Boehner had a deal with Obama to raise 800 billion in taxes. Apparently Obama changed his mind and asked, at the last minute, for another 400 billion.
How high do you want the debt limit raised? 16 trillion? 18 trillion? I mean, just because we have that limit raised, doesn’t mean that Congress would try and borrow that much does it? Let’s just raise to 100 trillion. That should cover it.
Ignore button on until you cut the crap. You know I never said all Democrats were moderates. I said I was a moderate. Democrats come in all varieties.
No, if the USA defaults, he will not get the blame. Just keep thinking that.
Fiscal Conservatism: The father of the movement is generally regarded to be Edmund Burke who back around 1795 created the foundation. The three main points of fiscal conservatism are: maintain status quo, protect the institution, and only make changes in increments.
The first point and last one go hand in hand – if there are funds available, make changes…if no funds available, then make no changes OR according to Burke, take action necessary to reduce spending in order to protect the institution.
Cargo has writen many points I read as standing on what the principles of fiscal conservatism are all about. I’ve noticed this across many threads and personally toss out of the reading of the debate the TEA/Reb/Dems/Obama arguements when Cargo post somethngs – it is the Resource Manager in me….don’t tell me what you feel, don’t tell me the truth, just give me the facts about the money.
Cargo has nailed the budgetary issues in a fine manner….reminds me of some conference room debates I had more than once looking at Five Year and Budget Year and Current Fiscal Year papers and going to war over them.
And final point – politics aside, this is a war and the objective should be perserving the institution and doing what it takes to get there.
We aren’t all surrounded and entrenched in ideology like Cargo is. You failed to mention partisanship. That is very apparent.
Federal/State Contractors aside, there are plenty of studies out there on what happens with instant job losses. I get more than one about the Older Worker (Age 50+) and what happens. And the big contractors are no different than all the other big & small companies in the news lately who say “yeah, we have profit and cash reserve, but we ain’t going anywhere yet to hire and expand”. Fed/State Contracts are either for service or for product, so unless the task order has increased demand built in or modified for increased demand, the companies should not make the move to expand based only on the gov’t contract in the first place – that is just bad business model.
I also, based on having been a Contracting Officer in the Army, see the impacts. I was involved back in ’96 with the Army Study of the “Contractor on the Battlefield” and how – especially with the Logistics “tail wagging the dog” – there was a view a far too increasing on contractor reliance. History since Gulf War I has proven that work group I was in was right.
Maybe Eisenhower had it right after all when it came to the military and contracting….
From Politico:
@Moon-howler
He may not get the blame, but it would be his fault.
Only the Republicans ever get blamed by the press.
@Raymond Beverage
Thank you Raymond.
@Moon-howler
Of course its partisan! One side wants something different from the other side.
Partisanship isn’t bad. All it means is that one side is fighting for its principles, ideals, and ideas against another. Let the best ideas win.
I am tired of the partisanship. I want what is best for America. I understand that compromise is necessary. I think what the tea party wants sucks and it is not part of my world vision. Please dont restate it for me. I said what I said.
That sounds…..very partisan, Moon.
What you think is good for America may different than what I think is best for America.
And I didn’t restate anything. What are you talking about?
Is it very paritisan to dislike a particular political group? I don’t think so. Let me restate it: I have grown to despise the tea party and what they stand for and their tactics.
You often restate my words to me and twist them into me sounding idiotic…like I want unlimited government spending. I don’t have the time to go find it.
We most definitely have different visions of America. No argument there.
What I am doing is trying to understand what you are saying that you want. If you state that you are against a certain group’s cause, then, I’m assuming that you wish the opposite. I have not seen support for any cuts. Every time that I bring them up, the reaction is that the Tea Party is horrible for wanting to restrict spending. You “despise” the Tea Party yet the overriding main principle of the party is fiscal restraint. Bluntly, I don’t know why you despise the Tea Party. What have we done that is despicable other than oppose the policies of the Democrats?
Furthermore, partisanship is the support of one group over another, so yes, it is very partisan to dislike a particular political group. Its exactly what you accuse me of doing. Heck, its exactly what I admit. I despise the principles supported by the progressives/socialists because I admire and support the principles found in the Constitution.
@Cargo, That assumes I am a binary thinker. I am not.
I don’t espouse any particular ideology. I don’t do group-think. I despise the tea party because I see simple answers being offered for very complex issues. I also think they are destroying the country.
I also dislike Neo-nazis, skin heads, and Code Pink. Is that very partisan also? I thought it was just disliking groups that violate my sense of values. Silly me.
It would be partisan if those groups were part of the political process.
I’m sorry that the Tea Party is linked in your mind with nazis, skinheads, and traitors.
Well I can throw out a few more groups I don’t like. the Christian Coalition comes to mind. They were definitely part of the political process. I don’t care much for FAIR either. I cannot abide Operation Rescue or American Life League. I think it is very fair to dislike groups that are contrary to one’s own personal belief system either in philosophy or actions. Moveon.org isn’t a big favorite of mine either. I am not fond of some of the antics of PETA either.
On the other hand, I was sorry that Clinton was linked foremost in your mind with corruption.