Hot enough for everyone? Its the dog days of summer for sure and this is one of the hottest summers on record.
Thank goodness for air conditioning. How did people survive without it?
160 Thoughts to “Open Thread………………………………………..Sunday, July 29”
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Frankly, I fully support Biden calling off the post-Tuscon rhetoric truce (which was a joke in the first place). Let the demonization begin! I love it!
Oh, and just to cut the liberals off, now that the market will turn around and cast its eyes once again at Europe, it’s not going to like what it sees. And that’s not the Tea Party’s fault….that’s what the Tea Party is trying to fix before it hits here.
BVBL is 4th. Sorry, just wanted to keep things in perspective since someone brought the subject up.
I just hope that they are right, slowpoke, because on Monday we bet the whole ranch on it. The clock is ticking. I plan on holding them accountable.
Second Alamo, Oh did you think I was referring the THAT blog when I mentioned wanting to be known for integrity rather than popularity? 😈
Are you a regular there?
Dude – more Repugs voted for the debt bill than Democrats. The bill passed only because of Republican support for it. See for yourself:
House Roll Call: How they voted on debt-limit bill
The Associated Press
The 269-161 roll call Monday by which the House passed the compromise bill to raise the debt ceiling and prevent a government default.
A “yes” vote is a vote to pass the measure.
Voting yes were 95 Democrats and 174 Republicans.
Voting no were 95 Democrats and 66 Republicans.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/01/2340990/house-roll-call-how-they-voted.html#ixzz1TyAxdhpx
Whatever the consequences, don’t blame the Democrats.
@Starryflights
Dude, not all of the Republicans are conservative/tea Party people.
THAT’S what the Tea Party is fighting.
This “deal” is a farce and a failure. We’re going to raise the debt to 7 MORE trillion over 10 years if ALL of the “cuts” are enacted. Gotta love government math. Only there is subtraction equal to addition. Why didn’t they just decide to raise the debt limit by 10 trillion and decide on 7 trillion in cuts? It has the same effect and validity.
OR they could just BORROW lesser amounts of money and the “cuts” would not be needed.
Honest Republicans saw this disaster in the making and for the POS that it truly is. There is no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in this except Democrats voted against it because it doesn’t spend MORE money. If the Democrats had their way, we would just pay down the debt by printing more money. Heck, lets just print a $1 trillion dollar bill and pay it with that. It would save time and get the crash over with and we can start rebuilding faster.
Unless the Tea Party wins more seats in Congress, this country WILL default and we WILL have massive inflation.
Then where will all of your profits in the market be?
Some of us would like to avoid another crash. If the tea party wins more seats in the next election, and I would not count on that happening, I believe we are all doomed.
No one except the tea party wanted a default. They have proven over and over again that it is ideology over the good of the country. Holding the raising of the debt ceiling hostage isn’t good for America and it is unprecedented.
Default was inevitable when you take in less money than has to go out.
Thanks tea party for all the money I have lost the past 2 weeks.
Have observed that Moonhowlings often has more comments than BVBL ,
but Sitemeters apparently measures “views”, which I assume is just clicking
on a site.
Maybe they cook the numbers over there like they do the facts. @ Big Dog
Good News: I’m not disputing your point
Bad News: Your point has literally NOTHING to do with my point, though by quoting, you imply some sort of relationship.
I said the market is tanking because fundamentals of economy are weak, not because of the debt ceiling. You say don’t blame Demoncrats for debt compromise passing. Congrats, you shot an arrow in the forest and hit a tree. Wasn’t the right tree, but it was technically a tree. My advice to you is to declare victory go back to coloring.
I’m just trying to understand how the TP can be seen as terrorists and obstructionists when just not long ago on this blog people were saying they didn’t represent main stream values, that they were jokes, that they were anti-intellectuals, and that mainstream politico’s would keep them in check.
Oh how things have changed.
To the Presidents credit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/02/white-house-biden-tea-party-terrorists_n_916473.html
And not to miss Mr. Stewart’s take:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/marc-ambinder-gets-props-from-jon-stewart-for-debt-ceiling-debate-foresight/2011/08/03/gIQALYVlrI_blog.html
“Ten points for Gryffindor.”
@Starryflights
Good News: I’m not disputing your point
Bad News: Your point has literally NOTHING to do with my point, though by quoting, you imply some sort of relationship.
I said the market is tanking because fundamentals of economy are weak, not because of the debt ceiling. You say don’t blame Demoncrats for debt compromise passing. Congrats, you shot an arrow in the forest and hit a tree. Wasn’t the right tree, but it was technically a tree. My advice to you is to declare victory go back to coloring.
An issue that stunned me in the the discussion was the GOP demand to
REQUIRE passage of a balanced budget admendment to the
U.S. Constitution. (George Allen sadly supports this nonsense)
Consideration and discussion of the pros and cons of the action -yes,
a vote on it -yes, but a to REQUIRE passage -no. That is pure blackmail.
(Note if this had been in place during WW II, we would all be speaking Japanese
or German now.)
Totally agree, Big Dog re WWII and blackmail. I would be very opposed to any amendment that tied our hands behind our backs. Not all debt is a bad thing and the modern world operates on some debt. There is too much rhetoric floating around by those who lack understanding of macro-economics. I don’t pretend to say I understand all the ins and outs. That’s why I don’t go around blathering about Constitutional Amendments. George Allen doesn’t either. He just wants to be more TP than his opponent.
And I do blame those people holding out in Congress who identified with the tea party. Like you, I have lost a lot of money the past two weeks. That free fall was in direct response to it appearing like the United States was going to default without resolution of the problem. Its hard to stop a free fall. The confidence isn’t back.
M-H, the Market reacts to many things and I don’t blame the TP’s
for all the recent and dramatic market drops, but their vile actions
certainly have played a part.
– 401ks battered.
– Social Security and Medicare under attack by the GOP.
– U.S.A. in 2011 – No Place for Old Men, or Women.
@Big Dog- Glad it isn’t my imagination. You are completely right, Big Dog. Throw in the attack on pensions in general and the funny money with the VRS and I feel like I should just plan to wander out on the plains come fall and just get behind a rock and die. That’s how some of the old Indians did when they have past their usefulness.
I think the boomers are going to get their second wind, however, and there will be some major paybacks. You can’t say the numbers aren’t on our side.
Usually the Republicans win at messaging. Democrats have never been very good at setting their own message. However, in the case of older Americans, in particular, the baby boomers, the Republicans have sent the wrong message. I would hope that if I ever voted Republican in a general election again, someone would just come along and chop my hands off. That behavior is too financially self destructive to me.
Nice try, but wrong
The Tea Party did not want a default. The Tea Party was stating that a) there would be no default unless THE PRESIDENT refused to pay the bills and b) that the debt ceiling did not need to be raised but that spending needed to be cut to stay within the debt limit.
“Default was inevitable when you take in less money than has to go out.”
This line says it all! This is what the Tea Party has been saying. And when you borrow more money than you need to pay for PAST debts, that is the definition of “taking in less money than has to go out.” We are going to default if we continue to borrow such obscene amounts of money and refuse to cut spending. Rating agencies and the markets are all telling us that yet you refuse to listen to them, instead blaming a false target for your market losses.
And your last post at #22 is a perfect example that the Republicans DO NOT win at messaging because you are blaming the only ones that are trying to save the finances of this country. But…go ahead. Keep voting in Democrats and watch the markets tank and inflation rise. Hope you bought gold.
Gas tax may expire.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60450.html
Personally, I don’t have a problem with the gas tax nor do I think that the TP should work to defeat its renewal. My objection is that the politicians keep “borrowing” from the fund to spend on other things. I think any renewal should be fixed to prevent that.
I noticed that Congress has dropped the ball again and expects to cut spending only in “discretionary spending” instead of the whole budget. So, since we all know that most politicians are basically cowards that will refuse to make hard decisions, we know that the cuts WILL come from the military. Sooo…
Here’s an idea game. How would you cut the military budget and restructure our treaty obligations?
We have 287 ships afloat, including 12 carrier groups.
We have developed very expensive new aircraft. We are building new classes of ships.
We have troops fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and elsewhere.
We have troops based in Europe, Japan, and Korea.
We police the seas and the rest of world – PAX Americana.
We have treaty obligations, including mutual defense treaties across the globe.
China is pushing in the Pacific. Pakistan is spreading nukes. Piracy is growing, Iran is threatening nuclear war and spreading terrorism. Militant Islam is causing trouble across the globe. China and Russia are modernizing their forces.
We have about 1.5 million under arms with expensive pension and treatment expenses.
So…how do we make these military budget cuts? What do we cut?
And do you believe that Congress is up to the task to make good decisions on restructuring our forces?
I keep thinking of the New Yorker cartoon where an elderly eskimo woman
is being pushed out to sea on a small piece of ice by a man and a small child ask
“Dad, are you sure this will take Grandma by a nice Senior Citizen home?”
Have I heard correctly that Congress is leaving for a 5 (five) week vacation?
I mean, FIVE weeks!
@Punchak, afraid so. Some of these people were the very people who criticized the president for going on vacation also. That gets old, regardless of who the president is. No one vacations more than congress. I hope they try to hold a few town hall meetings that get disrupted by disgruntled Americans.
@punchak
We’re saved!
Too bad that we can’t make them stay away from DC for months at a time.
I expect the FAA workers will have a different opnion. Some of them are having to pay their own way to work which they aren’t getting paid for. 75,000 Americans out of work.
Deduct the absence from their pay, of course!
@punchak
Heck, I’d double their pay if it would make them stay home.
Cargo – Our military spending is nearly six times greater than China’s (we spend more than a half-trillion more per year than them) and we come pretty close to equaling total military spending for the rest of the world combined. While we are borrowing money from China and bombing people in six countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, and Libya) they have used their financial power to engrain themselves in the economies of countries around the world and haven’t fired missiles at anyone. Pakistan spends about $6B a year on its military. In FY09 we gave them over $3B in aid with about $1.6 of that in military aid, or about a quarter of their defense budget. Even if we defund NPR, Planned Parenthood and ACORN we can’t sustain (nor should we) that level of military spending.
@punchak They deserve it after all of the hard work done on time and under budget, right?
@Morris Davis
Actually I agree with everything you said. I’m not against military spending cuts. I just want them thought out in regards to our obligations and intentions. If we cut drastically, I want our treaty obligations to reflect that.
Are we willing to accept a smaller influence in the world? If so, where do we cut? Do we cut fleet size and still keep up current deployment schedules? Do we accept a lesser quality of training that comes with that? Do we cut manning even further and accept that many ships will be unable to deploy with all operational systems?
We should definitely rethink our war in the Afghanistan theater and the President’s personal war in Libya should be immediately be defunded. What is our mission in Iraq now and is there an end to it? How about troops in Europe and Korea and Japan? Can South Korea defend itself now? If not, since the problem is the UN’s and not just the US’s, then lets get more UN troops over there to help…..I’m sure the Pakistan army will get right on it.
I notice that the media have dropped any mention of the theaters of war. Almost as if they keep them out of sight, they’ll be out of mind….
This should make the markets happy. I mean, more spending makes the markets happy, right? We’ll see. There should be nothing but an upward trend while the borrowing continues. Oh, wait….that’s gold.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jsIJrjNbFnHfTteRFzNM3vLqKiug?docId=CNG.1990c2943612788ba4bed492da11c97b.891
US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government’s debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.
Treasury borrowing jumped Tuesday, the data showed, immediately after President Barack Obama signed into law an increase in the debt ceiling as the country’s spending commitments reached a breaking point and it threatened to default on its debt.
The new borrowing took total public debt to $14.58 trillion, over end-2010 GDP of $14.53 trillion, and putting it in a league with highly indebted countries like Italy and Belgium.
Again, you might not have a good handle on the markets if that is what you think.
The more people who are unemployed, the less revenue. I would say we should have done a little tweaking with that revenue in addition to spending. Just a thought….
http://dailypundit.com/?p=42751
Here’s something that explains why we’re at 100% of GDP. And no, its not only the Democrats fault.
http://www.violenceworker.com/my_weblog/2011/08/who-really-wants-to-bring-the-country-down.html
And this guy puts into words what I’ve been trying to say all along.
Got to be very careful there, Moe. I remember the post-Vietnam Carter era when the U.S. military was starved to the point of becoming a geopolitical joke. Reagan rebuilt the thing to a level where we made the Soviets finally give in to the inevitable and then creamed the opposition quickly in the First Gulf War. I also remember the so-called “peace dividend” in the Clinton years. That was sort of a natural reaction, I will admit; but, like so many other things in this country, it was overdone. There was an infortunate period when it seemed like we were having a military air crash every week. And who can forget the decision to send our attack choppers to Albania at a point when the refugees were streaming out of Kosovo under pressure from the Serbian armed forces. The videos were embarrassing. We could hardly get our choppers off the ground. Fortunately, having a vastly smaller and inferior foe pulled us out of the fire on that one. But you make unintelligent cuts in the military, and the first things that go are maintenance and training and the top-level equipment — all of which puts our troops at risk. Then your recruitment numbers and standards start to go into the tank. We will be once more on the edge of becoming a “paper tiger” with limited response capabilities and treaties to keep.
To be honest, President Obama’s criticism of Congress for leaving town while ordinary people hurt by the FAA funding debacle worry about how to make ends meet might have carried more weight had he not made the statement right before he left town to attend a $38,500 a head fundraiser.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-08-03-obama-birthday-hamburger-50_n.htm
Agreed, Moe. That probably wasn’t the best move. Or…he could have voiced it a little differently…perhaps he could have criticized the amount of time rather than the fact that they left. Of course Hannity got a lot of miles out of it comparing how often Bush played golf to how often Obama plays. That isn’t the stuff that bothers me. Neither did Crawford, Texas. I figured he was as tethered there as any place else. I never cared when Bush went bicycling.
Good – we agree on something.
You are right, we are doomed, but way wrong about why. As long as people think like you and Big Dog (and of course, your intellectual leader, Starry) we are in fact, doomed. Buy Gold, folks.
Top 10 Barrack Obama Birthday Bash Games
10. Jenga: U.S. economy edition
9. Tic-Tax-Toe
8. (Getta) Clue
7. Monopoly: Spread the Wealth edition
6. Barrel of Soros Monkeys
5. Red Rover, Red Rover, Send Your Paycheck Right Over
4. Duck Duck Responsibility
3. Pin the Debt on the Children
2. Scavenger Hunt — for a job
1. Unfollow The Leader
Runners-up:
– Musical Czars
– (I’m Not) Sorry!
– (I’m Numero) Uno
– Pin the Fail on the Elephant
– (Truth) Twister
– Bobbing for Bailouts
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
Won’t Starry be delighted to know that he is our intellectual leader. All Hail Great Starry!
As to buying gold, what are you going to do when that gold is worth $800 an ounce? You realize that gold isn’t used as tender?
Many folks would disagree with you. Just out of curiosity, how does your 401k handle the purchase of gold? That must be a pretty flexible company.
Morning reports indicate stocks still opening lower because of economic fears both here and with the European economic woes.
When did those fears kick in? Who was holding out when the stock market started its free fall? Crickets chirping here.
@Moon-howler
Those fears started kicking in months ago. Just no one is listening because that would derail the narrative that Obama has everything under control.
http://www.denverpost.com/littwin/ci_18611369
“The stock market lost a year of gains in about a week -thanks, folks…”
“…a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.”
I’ll say.
@Moon
You should let those folks who are bringing Gold to $2000/oz how worthless their investement is. They’d love to hear about it!
Gold isn’t tender, but our current tender is right next to toilet paper, yet I can sell a gold American Eagle for more toilet paper every day. Place your trust wherever you like! I believe my old company allowed one to buy different things via a special form of purchasing….but I detest 401k for investments. Match, OK, Investment options? Poop. I like rolling mine over into my IRA where I can control where it goes. I’ve got 1/5th in Tocqueville Gold there. I’m also a believer in the Canadian economy. They are at least bright enough to use their huge natural resources. So we’re down about 250 right this second….Tea Party’s fault, right? Absolutely preposterous. Take a look at how much we’ve borrowed after the ceiling deal was signed. We’re looking just like Europe. However, I also understand your marching orders from the far left are to say just that. I have always said the success of the left requires the absolute stupidity of the people. That being said, you might just win…..but what will you win?
Poke, have you also drunk the paranoid kool aid. Yup, I got my marching orders from the far far left and they are guiding my every move in buying and selling stocks. yup yup yup. I own a couple Canadian stocks and I own some gold stock. There’s a big difference in owning straight stock verse the concrete item, as I am sure you know. I enjoy owning silver stock more. Not sure why. I guess my leftie buddies told me to say that.
I love any investment with matching. You are lucky you can roll over while you are still employed with the company. My 403b that I kept has decent investments in it. I have had some that didn’t. I no longer have those.
Yes. re tea party’s fault.
Seems I always get put in moderation for using the word “Canadian”
@Cargosquid
That is just paranoid. He really bugs you, doesn’t he?
Do you really think the stock market listens about Obama. Stop trying to justify what amounted to destructive behavior out of about 60 people. People who are willing to compromise and work out problems would have been the winners. To doggedly stall and stonewall something that had to happen was careless and irresponsible.
I can’t stand the current debt raising deal, but this part is hilarious.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60634.html
It could gut HCR. OOOooops. They didn’t see that one coming. Perhaps they should have raised the ceiling for a short time and actually debated and researched a solution instead of doing a “deal.”
@Moon-howler
So your blaming the Tea Party for the current stock market is just coincidentally exactly what the left is trying to do. OK, just coincidence, Yup, Yup, Yup!
I’d love to have some real gold, but the kind I like has awful premiums. I do like my silver! I recently changed jobs, and rolled by 401k over. Can’t roll it over while at the company, but I only put in what will match, I try to focus on my IRA, since it performs better than any 401k investment options I see. Who’s waiting for QE3 to be announced?
“If the unemployed could eat plans and promises, they would be able
to spend the winter on the Riviera.”
W.E.B. DuBois, 1931
“The Republicans claim if you don’t have enough money, it’s because
the poor people are hoarding it.”
Kevin Rooney
The current administration had better put some polish on those job numbers, tomorrow, or it’s going to be an interesting Friday.
“To doggedly stall and stonewall something that had to happen was careless and irresponsible.”
HAHAHAHAHA! YEP! Reid and Obama sure did stonewall. He was the one not voting. And Obama stated that he would veto ANYTHING that passed Congress that did not extend the debt limit past the election cycle.
It was the evil Republicans that actually compromised and sent a deal to the Democrats. It was the Republicans that actually wrote bills RAISING your sacred debt limit.
But, go ahead. Just blame one side. We’re used to it. Everybody on the left always ignores what the Democrats actually do vs what they say they’re doing.
The Navy Times on surviving the coming zombie apocalypse.
http://www.navytimes.com/offduty/health/offduty-zombie-war-deployment-guide-072611/
.22 pistol with silencer/laser sight
one handed melee weapon to push or strike zombies
lightweight rifle/pistol cal. carbine
or for the traditional fighter….chainsaw.
For groups…rocket propelled chainsaw
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_Propelled_Chainsaw
@SlowpokeRodriguez
I don’t own any real investment gold or silver and probably wont. Just something else to dust.
I still say silver wheaton is a great silver investment. It is silver streaming.
My gold company got bought. wahhhhh. I got replacement stocks. They aren[‘t setting the world on fire. I just recently bought a little great panther silver because I sold silver wheaton. gpl is a mine.
I never said gold was worthless. What is it with you guys misquoting and putting words in someone’s mouth…mainly mine. I would be afraid to buy gold outright now because what goes up might come down. What do I do with gold if I buy at 1680 and the bottom falls out and it goes to 800.
Gold, like any commodity, is volatile and can drop at any time. That isn’t saying it is worthless. It is saying it represents a risk to me that I am not willing to take.
http://manassaspark.patch.com/articles/city-officials-prepare-to-borrow-4-million-to-cover-projected-shortfall
And this follows a recent major bond ratings downgrade for MP.
A challenging financial time for many local governments.
Cargo, I have every intention of just blaming the tea party. I am not even going to include the GOP republicans. They were willing to compromise.
There should be no reason to hold something that had to happen so the country could run hostage. I repeat, it was careless and irresponsible. You all have talked about every Democrat other than the one who was shot like they were a POS for as long as I can remember. The white gloves or off over the tea party because I believe their stonwalling jeopardized the country and I do it without apology.
By the way, I see you have the Sarah Palin victim mentality down pat. Don’t whine. If you dish it out, know how to take it. And accept responsbility for what was done.
Did the tea party candidates refuse to vote to raise the debt ceiling. Yes or no. its a binary question.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/295100
This brings back horrible memories – hope it is a false alarm.
@Big Dog
“A challenging financial time for many local governments.”
Perhaps for some but not all.
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/jul/27/checks-mail-haymarket-residents-ar-1198511/
“By the way, I see you have the Sarah Palin victim mentality down pat. Don’t whine. If you dish it out, know how to take it. And accept responsbility for what was done. ”
Really? That’s what you think? By pointing out that the Democrats are the ones that actually stonewalled, I’m playing the victim.
Some of the Tea Party voted for the current bill. Some didn’t. They all voted to raise the debt limit on the Cap, Cut, and Balance bill and on the second bill. The Democrats in the Senate REFUSED to vote. They didn’t even debate it. They tabled it. And Obama stated he would refuse to pass it NO MATTER WHAT, proving that the debt ceiling was not that important to him as his election is.
The Tea Party forced a compromise. That was all they succeeded at. Everything else, they lost. In fact, in the end, the TP lost because there are no real cuts.
The TP DID NOT REFUSE to vote on raising the debt ceiling. They passed two bills raising the debt ceiling. They only forced the rest of Congress to, at least, pay lip service to fiscal responsibility. So there’s your answer.
When I see hypocrisy I state it. Both parties are responsible for this mess. But only one side is being blamed. Both parties spent too much. But only one side increased spending exponentially. And only one part of of one party is demanding actual fiscal responsibility. Both parties promised to lower the deficit. The current admin lies about it.
I only see one side refusing to accept responsibility over the debt crisis, and that’s the left.