Eric Cantor (R-Va) apparently had much more of a hand in the debt ceiling debacle than we thought. Just 10 days after the freshman class of the Congress was inaugurated, Cantor and the frosh booked it up to Baltimore Harbor for a retreat. (retreat from what? to days of work?) and he told them how things were going to be. All dewy eyed and excited about their new job, the frosh now had a way to fulfill their campaign promises.
According to the Washington Post, it went down something like this?
A vote to increase the nation’s $14.3 trillion debt limit was coming soon, he told the caucus members who had gathered at the Marriott in Baltimore’s Inner Harbor for a closed-door retreat less than 10 days after taking power. Think of it as a “hidden” opportunity, he implored them, a chance to achieve their goal of reining in the federal government and its spending habits.
“I’m asking you to look at a potential increase in the debt limit as a leverage moment when the White House and President Obama will have to deal with us,” said Cantor, one of several new House leaders who detailed the game plan for the coming months. “Either we stick together and demonstrate that we’re a team that will fight for and stand by our principles, or we will lose that leverage.
With everyone, especially the 87 GOP newcomers all revving their engine, the plan was in place–the plan to take the country to the brink of potential disaster, again. This time, that disaster resembled a default on our debt.
The newcomers took Cantor seriously when he urged them in January to see the debt ceiling as leverage. Democrats called the GOP irresponsible for gambling with the economy and the nation’s flawless credit. Republicans countered that an epic clash over the debt limit was inevitable, given the outcome of the election and widespread anger with runaway government spending.
Meanwhile, President Obama put too much stock in human nature, it seems. He felt confident that Rep. John Boehner would honor his commitments and that no one would want to see the United States of America go in to default. During an interview with the president, after the Bush tax cuts had been extended, the fo;llowing exchange took place:
At a Dec. 7 news conference to announce the tax deal, which included an extension of the Bush-era tax cuts, a reporter asked Obama why the debt limit hadn’t been addressed. It would seem, the reporter said, that the Republicans will “have a significant amount of leverage over the White House now.”
Obama responded, “When you say significant leverage . . . what do you mean?”
The reporter said the GOP might refuse to raise the debt ceiling unless Obama signed off on spending cuts “that probably go deeper and further than you’re willing to do.”
Obama directed his answer at the GOP leadership. “Look, here’s my expectation,” he said. “I’ll take John Boehner at his word — that nobody, Democrat or Republican, is willing to see the full faith and credit of the United States government collapse. . . . Once John Boehner is sworn in as speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower.”
Apparently President Obama counted on a few people having the best interest of the country at heart, rather than partisan politics. The bomb throwers arrived in another form. The local tea party groups started threatening those representatives to hold the line.
Many of the tea party bosses back home warned their representatives. Jenny Beth Martin, co-founder of Tea Party Patriots issued a severe warning to her group saying:
…that her group would recruit candidates to challenge any GOP lawmakers who wavered on the debt limit. Her threat revolved around a new verb that had begun to crop up in tea party circles. “I think we are going to see people who are ‘primaried’ next year,” she said.
Thus, primary becomes a verb. Apparently the threat to run the freshman class out of office after serving one term for was enough of a threat to some of them so hold the line they did, regardless of what happened to the country as a consequence of such foolish actions.
A more sinister picture entered the scene–the lobby for the hedge fund managers. The WaPo reports:
A similar message also came, in a quieter way, from the trade groups for the nation’s hedge funds and private equity firms. Their members had billions at stake, thanks to a White House proposal that would raise some tax revenue at their expense. As the July home stretch arrived, they had already spent $4.2 million on lobbying expenses for the year.
Those are some powerful lobby bills. I had wondered why all the middle class tea party people were so protective of the very rich. There’s my answer right there. The hedge fund managers had a huge stake in the negotiations over the debt ceiling and they had thrown down the marching orders.
The rest is history and can be read in full at the Washington Post. Apparently winning and politics is more important than country. The tea parties have demonstrated that in this debt ceiling debacle. Meanwhile, let us not forget that Mrs. Canter has close connections to the financial world. I wonder what would would happen if someone started connecting the dots? How political would we see things get with with hedge funds, etc?
Republicans consider their achievement a win-win. Apparently the stock market and the S & P folks saw things a little different. The stock market has lost about 10% in the past 10 days and the S & P downgraded our national credit rating. If that is winning for America, I would hate to see losing.
I don’t think we should be surprised by the Teabaggers’ tactics. These are the people who didn’t give a damn about others’ opinions when they disrupted town hall meetings. They’ve merely brought their thuggery to Congress now. When interest rates rise and we have to pay more on ARMs or credit cards and our localities can’t replace a couple trailers at a school or our roads are crappy for another extra year or three, we can thank a teabagger for bringing the country to the brink with all the unnecessary drama.
But it’s also wise to always follow the money….
I hope the Tea Party does “primary” members that don’t agree with their dogma. That way, Democrats will sweep in November 2012 when the backlash against the aforementioned “leveraging” occurs. Til then – fasten your seatbelts. It’s going to be bumpy night!
This article is fabulous. I hope everyone reads this, it is a very fair summary of the government shutdown with Clinton as President and Gingrich as house speaker. Both parties played a role in balancing the budget and dare I say, it was a two fold approach, tax increases AND spending cuts. History has shown us that a balanced approach works, why are the republicans so reisistant?
I gotta tell ya’. I love this stuff.
I just left you a message on the other thread Slow. Are you suggesting Bloomberg is a left wing rag?
@Elena, I think that “job killers” are secretly the hedge fund managers. Who the hell are they creating jobs for?
A whole lot of people have been sold a bill of goods. Notice over 4 million bucks was spent lobbying for hedge fund owners and managers, to protect them from becoming ‘revenue.’
Slow,
Stay in your littte dark mousehole in the wall, scamper out for a bit of cheese, and run back in so you don’t have to deal with the real world. A balanced approach is the appropriate way out of this mess, but I guess little mice only care about getting their bit of cheese.
Shoot, Elena, I want to make sure *I* get my bit of cheese too, the cheese I have faithfully paid for over the years. Yet I am treated like I have my hand out when I want my own pension and look forward to my own ss and medicare. As a boomer, I have paid in to these programs and hope they are here when turn gets here.
Wow, you’ve really hit the pinnacle of clever with the whole mouse/cheese thing. You didn’t work too hard on it, I hope.
of course the Hedge Funds do not want any changes to the tax code – many of the hedging have their income treated as capital gains at a 15% tax rate – why would they want that to change?
What is it that Rahm said – Never let a crisis go to waste…..
Cantor and team can talking about Winning, just like Sheen.
Nah Slow, no big sweat. Imagining you scampering came quite easily. I envision you like this……cute but very small minded 😉
@Pat, Agreed. And they are the only group, that I am aware of, that get to declare income at 15%. I know the mutual fund managers don’t get that same tax break.
It looks to me like “compromise” in the liberal lexicon really means: “Give me what I want or I’ll call you nasty names and imply that you are selling out the country. And, if that doesn’t work, I’ll hold my breath until I turn blue.”
Doggone, some of us have been preaching to Tea Partiers and conservatives in general that you do not question the patriotism of your fellow Americans no matter how much you may disagree on policy. Well, that goes in the crapper now. When the other side fights like that, no point in preaching the sermon anymore. Now, excuse me while I edit my resume to include the word “terrorist.” After all, old Congressman Boyle or Doyle or whatever said it was so, although Uncle Joe Biden is trying to shift any blame away from himself in that regard..
I’ve always said that all the principles espoused by the left require the population to be exceptionally dim-witted, so I’m not surprised.
I have no intentions of turning blue. I have every intention of fighting to get those who place ideology above country out of office. This is not the time to start victim mentality.
When a group says no and that the country needs to to into default, then they are placing their own ideology above what is clearly in the best interest of the country.
And speaking of vitriol, the name callers have been Bachmann and Palin, They just don’t let up. I have no idea what either of them would do if President. They have spent too much time vilifying and demonizing Obama and democrats.
Too bad the tea party didnt listen about behavior. I started out not feeling like this.
I have never been so disgusted. Frankly, I am tired of hearing how basically irrelevant I am. I can take that though….its the continual harranging about how I should not have what I feel I am entitled to that really pisses me off.
The funny thing is, that S&P downgraded us because our politicians can’t do anything but blame each other for everything (no side is better than the other here, that’s what they do all the time). So how do we react? We blame each other for everything. No side is innocent here. The left blames the tea party for everything, and the right blames, well, pretty much all the left. You think maybe S&P has a point here?
Hahahhahahahaha! Wooooo, that’s funny.
“those who place ideology above country”
But you want Palin and Bachmann to be “polite”.
So, when I advocate Tea Party principles, I’m advocating Party over Country.
Really.
Guess what you can do with that.
Those Tea Party candidates were elected with a mandate to change business as usual in DC. Politics is about leverage. Keep on hiding in YOUR mouse hole, blaming the Tea Party for the things that YOUR party did to the economy. The ratings agency, AGAIN stated that it was the LONG TERM outlook on the debt that killed our rating. It’s the spending.
Too bad the Tea Party didn’t listen about behavior? What do you want them to do? Just lay there and think of England? It was their JOB to fight for their principles and their constituents. Its their job to fight for their beliefs.
You talk about victimization? Have you listened to the left AT ALL over the last 10 – 20 years? Heck, even the last few months? You accuse the Tea Party of “playing the victim” all the while you slander them, over and over. What you’re not accustomed to is an opponent of the left not being afraid to fight back. The Left is given a pass on all of ITS actions but the Tea Party, when it fights for their constituents
We have Congressmen calling others Americans TERRORISTS because they fought a political battle. YOU have slandered them by stating that their only concern is “party” even while they FIGHT THEIR OWN PARTY. I haven’t listened to Palin and Bachmann. But they are popular BECAUSE they fight fire with fire.
Your complaints “playing the victim” make me think that you don’t believe that the Tea Party has any reason to defend itself, that the left is all innocence and sweetness.
Slowpoke has a point in #16. And I’ve said, effectively, the same about Bush’s spendthrift ways adding to the debt. But, God forbid that we try to actually get it under control.
So, lets take a look at what YOU wanted. You wanted the debt ceiling raised with NO muss or fuss. Automatic raise. NO cuts. No tax increases. At least, that’s my impression.
And THAT type of raise is what the S&P agency, is saying is the cause of downgrade. NO attempt to cut. So, all of your attempts to portray Obama as the failed savior because he SAID he had a plan but the mean TP walked out…..contradicts your own desires.
You wanted a debt ceiling raise. You got it. You wanted more spending. You got it. You didn’t ask for ANY cuts, originally. They didn’t actually put any in…so, no problems there.
You got what you wanted. Enjoy.
What would I know about the “real world” I have two boys, two car payments, a nice fat mortgage on a house that isn’t worth a squirt of urine, and I pay more in taxes each year than the median household income. Yeah, I wouldn’t know anything about the “real world”. Or were you referring to the old MTV reality series?
@Cargo
Interesting. I didn’t realize I was in Congress. Is that all part of the delusion?
You darn right I am furious. You have no idea what *I* wanted.
You don’t attempt to crater the US economy for ideology. End of statement.
Slow – Speaking of dim-wits, have you seen Rick Perry’s transcript from Texas A&M? A “D” in economics, an “F” in chemestry, a “D” in writing, a “D” in “feeds and feeding” (he majored in animal science), but a solid “C” in gym class and an overall 2.04 GPA. Of course he has a degree (unlike Limbaugh, Beck and Scott Walker) and he didn’t have to go to 5 colleges to get it (like Palin). http://www.scribd.com/doc/61684192/Rick-Perry-s-Texas-A-M-Transcript There may be some liberal dim-wits amongst the population, but they don’t lead the movement and they aren’t heralded as potential presidential candidates. You’ve clearly got the exceptionally bright bulbs on your team.
@Moe, I hope you have seen Bill Maher’s commercial for the Rick Perry event. I have never laughed so hard.
I hope that these anti-TEA party threads keep coming and people keep posting. I enjoy them. They are very entertaining to me.
“There may be some liberal dim-wits amongst the population, but they don’t lead the movement and they aren’t heralded as potential presidential candidates.”
Sure there are…Obama comes to mind. Oh, wait, he’s hiding his transcripts….so, I guess, until I find out otherwise…..we can consider is incompetency to be the evidence of HIS brilliance.
Cargo,
Your anger is misdirected. Moon and I have both advocated a balanced approach from the beginning. Once again, you have completely misquoted Moon, who said none of what you claim in your #17 post. Obama attempted a grand plan of 4 trillion in cuts, 75% from entitlements and 25% revenue. From my perspective, that was what would have addressed our growing debt problem.
For me, it is common sense and has worked in the past, Clinton era is the best example, albeit contentious, spending was controlled, welfare reform addressed, and taxes cut for the middle, but raised for the highest income bracket.
Your vitriolic attitude towards balance will not change out current trajectory towards disaster, disaster for the economy and thus for every citizen.
The Tea party is befeft of common sense. The long term consequences of their actions are yet to be realized. I am hopeful that the committee formed will do the hard work and make the hard decisions that the majority of Americans can support. No one won in this debt ceiling agreement. It did not address our long term debt. Cap and balance was a non starter, just the one payer paradigm in the health care debate.
Democrats need to be able to give of their sacred cows and so do the Republicans. It was determined in the Simpons-Bowles debt commission and it was concured by the gang of six, cuts and revenue are the only path.
Slow,
Then WHY are you so eager to allow hedgefund managers to pay only 15% of their multi million income while regular people like us struggle!
There is a great inequity that has only grown in the last 30 years. Why is that? Why do the middle class spin like hamsters, stagnated in salary compared to debt while only a few hold the majority of the wealth in this country?
Marin and cargo, why do you think this is a joke? There funny going on here. And I mean every word of putting party and ideology over country. This could have been avoided.
You will never see it or assume any responsibility for not compromising because you are too rooted in ideology. One’s ideology should never come before country.
Interesting that it is perfectly ok, in your minds, to talk about the president and other democrats in the vilest of terms and then go all sactimonious when others criticize republicans or tea party people.
I guess the white gloves are off. I get furious when I lose money unnecessarily. Go back and read the reports. It is pretty clear.
As Wolverine pointed out. If compromise is defined as me not getting everything I want than it also means that you don’t get everything you want. Compromise happened with our bipartisan bill that up’d the debt limit. And we got downgraded.
S&P says we have systemic issues that need to be resolved. People are looking at the scapegoat of the political system to explain how Obama has become the first President to ever get our credit downgraded. The reality is (and something we’ve been saying for awhile now..) that our spending is unsustainable. It has to decrease. We cover way too many things.
The way out of this is to cut, cut, and cut. And when that’s done we cut some more. We’re not talking about layers of skin anymore. Now we have to go to the bone and in some cases through it. The longer we wait the deeper we’ll have to cut to make up for it and the more people will be hurt.
Unsustainable. It’s really that easy.
What I think is funny is that people are buying into the democratic narrative (and I could argue a GOP narrative) and are willing to throw the TP in front of the bus when their plan was probably the one and only method that could’ve saved us from being downgraded. In essence the people that are saying that the TP are putting politics over country are themselves putting politics over country.
That is in my humble opinion.
It was the Great Compromise at the constitutional convention in Philadelphia that blended elements from competing plans to build a compromise solution that gave us a legislature made up of a Senate and a House. Of course now the two chamber created by compromise consider the word compromise heresy. Compromise isn’t splitting the baby down the middle. That could be done artificially using a formula. Compromise is the sides assessing the value of their interests and giving where they can and taking where it’s agreed. No one gets a whole loaf, but they get something they can live with and support. We’ve lost the art of negotiation and insist it’s winner take all. That’s not a democracy.
Compromise was that they raised the debt ceiling? Really?
No, real compromise would have been some form of what Obama proposed. Spending cuts with revenue.
@Elena
If Moon advocated a “balanced” approach from the beginning, then why was she advocating that the ceiling be raised without any deals? Go back and look at our arguments. Her problem with my argument is that the ceiling was raised so often in the past that it should have been raised again, automatically. The minute that you start putting additional conditions, such as raising taxes, then you start political negotiations.
I didn’t see any Democrat “sacred cows” being offered up for sacrifice. My “vitriolic attitude” is not towards balance. Its toward those that continue to ignore blatant statements about spending by those downgrading us while attacking the Tea Party. Its towards those that refuse to accept that we have no more money and that we could raise taxes by confiscating 100% of the wealth of the top 10% and still not get rid of THIS deficit, much less past and future ones.
And Moon, where do you see that I think ANY of this is funny? Yes, I know that you mean every word about the Tea Party. You have to have SOMEONE to blame otherwise you might have to look in the mirror. We conservatives have been saying FOR DECADES that entitlements needed to be reformed and that the bill was coming due.
Well, the bill is on the table. And YOU are stuck with it. We are all stuck with it. And all you want to do is continue business as usual. Tax everyone more! Tax the rich! 1% more! It won’t do anything but it will make us feel better!
You see the TP as wanting to take everything you earned? Like what? Social security? You paid a tax. The gov’t spent it. We conservatives warned you about that. Its gone. Blame THEM. Oh wait, you voted those guys in. Medicare/medicaid? LBJ’s creation is making us broke. And conservatives warned about that too. Its made seniors dependent upon the gov’t spending.
This could have been avoided. Really, in what way, if we had followed YOUR desires? You wanted it raised. It did. You wanted compromise. We did. You don’t seem to want what it takes to compromise, though. You just want your political opponents to do what YOU want and call it compromise.
Cap and Balance WAS a non-starter as written. BUT it was the only game in town. Instead of changing it….the Democrats TABLED it without debate. They did the same with the next bill. Reid refused to put HIS bill on paper until the House put out YET ANOTHER. Obama NEVER put out any solid info, and ignored the recommendations of previous committees like Simpson-Bowles. The only thing that you can’t point to is that the Tea Party demanded actual negotiation instead of blindly following the Democrats off the cliff. Did you feel the same way when the Democrats, including Obama, refused to raise the limit before? Who did you blame then? Did you blame the Democrats THIS time for filibustering THEIR own bill in the Senate to keep it from being voted on? Did you blame the Democrats for putting party over country because THEY ADDED IN CONDITIONS to raise the debt ceiling by asking for trillions in taxes, including on the middle class?
“One’s ideology should never come before country.”
Soooo….you don’t have an ideology? Obama doesn’t? The Democrats don’t? That statement is such BS. An ideology is a belief system. Do I really have to point out how political systems work.
Now, if you had said, “One’s PARTY should never come before country.” I could see where you are coming from. And that’s exactly why the TP formed. The parties were putting themselves before country and still are. The TP is the only force not following the status quo.
You’re always bringing up the tax rates under Clinton. Ok. Lets copy/paste that tax structure on today, along with the SPENDING structure. Only fair…..right? It’s a compromise. We’ll even adjust for inflation. Everything was hunky dory then. Because the SPENDING was restricted. THAT is why, along with taking money out of your Social Security, that the vaunted Clinton surplus occurred. That and the DOT.COM boom.
From a great comment (among many) at this link ( read the article. very good.) http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/to-be-fair-obamas-responsibility-for-the-downgrade-is-only-15-percent/#comment-13109
Democrats hound ‘terrorist’ Republicans – or Tea Party Republicans – on being inflexible on ‘revenues’. How many Democrats would take the following “deal”? We’ll return everyone to the tax rates (with brackets adjusted for inflation) that existed at the time of the last ‘surplus’, IF the government will cut spending (adjusted SOLELY for inflation and raw population growth) to the levels that existed at that same time.
Ii believe no “insider” Democrat would take that deal, while I believe that the man-on-the-street Democrat would. Why the disparity? Because the “insider” Democrat knows that senior entitlements are rising faster than inflation and population growth because of the baby boom, and reducing spending to the level required to allow for the out-sized growth in those programs would necessitate huge cuts in all other programs (not just defense). Not to mention that it would mean rolling back Medicare Part D, ObamaCare, and the spending on 2 – or 3, depending on how you count – wars.
The corollary is that even rolling back the Bush tax cuts on ALL Americans would not produce the revenue required to support discretionary spending at pre-Bush levels. So I don’t for a second believe the president or anyone else when they say that rolling back the Bush tax cuts on JUST those “millionaires and billionaires” (defined as anyone making more than $250,000…) would ‘solve’ the problem. It doesn’t come close to doing so. Those tax increases are just the beginning. They would have to be.
So let’s grant Democrats their tax increase, for arguments sake. Now, let’s see Democrats balance the budget in 10 years (time since Clinton) without even bigger tax increases… THIS is why you’ve not seen a Democrat propose a serious budget for the past 2+ years, even with tax increases. It would immediately put the lie to the argument that we are taxed too lightly.
We spend – and promise to spend – too much. When Democrats admit this and come to the table with their preferred solution for Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security reform, THEN we can start to debate fixes. Until then, any negotiations would be a waste of time. Of course, until then, the problem just becomes harder to solve as we have less time until the debt bomb explodes.
@Morris Davis
I have to wonder to myself if you are proud of the arguments you’ve made in post #20. It’s a pretty good leap from the point I made to Elena to your personal attacks on Perry and Palin. Is this what passes for a well-thought out argument with you? Looks to me as if you and Starryflights may share some intellectual background. This is what Elena and Moon consider swoon-worthy? OK. I could easily play compare-the-dope with you. With Biden, Obama (you know why we haven’t seen his transcripts, right? I wouldn’t let them out, either), and other intellectual titans such as Sheila Jackson-Lee on your team, you got some major stugots to pick that fight.
As I recall, the last Texas dim-wit the Republicans ran whupped the ass of your fellow Bolsheviks. Twice.
Thus proving that dim-wittedness is an American affliction, not limited to Texas.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
“nice fat mortgage” – Maybe you should have bought a less expensive house.
“two car payments” – Maybe you could do with one car if you can’t afford to pay for two.
“I pay more in taxes each year than the median household income” – Are you bragging or complaining?
Slow – It’s your side that treats education and intellect like they are handicaps — what you’d call “liberal elites” — and you tend to fawn over a superficial pretty face that spews anger and ignorance — what you’d call a patriot or a real American. So I guess I’d say I’m at least as proud of my argument as you must be of your argument that liberal principles are dependent on dim-wits.
Cato – And we’re still paying for it, in fact we’ll hit the decade point in a few weeks for the first of his two unfunded wars. And as for Perry’s 2.04 GPA, that’s just .04 of wasted effort.
What? No advice on how many kids to have?
“your side”. And you folks expect this to get any better? I do like the “liberal elites” thing…..oxymoron alert!
This is what I say I love in my first post in this thread. The left is lashing out in all directions! Mainly the tea party, but also Bush, Palin, Bachman, Perry, etc. I absolutely support all of this, of course. I especially support the non-stop attack on the tea party. This should finally break the back of the tea party. It will not not galvanize the people in the least. Anytime you label patriotic Americans as “terrorists”, they usually just sulk away whimpering. I really think you’ve got a winner, here! And I know you’ll stick with it!
Who get to decide who is patriotic and who isn’t? What standard do we use?
I also don’t recall saying anyone was a terrorist. Feel free to cut and paste if I am in error. I often work in the middle of the night. Perhaps I just don’t recall doing so.
And make no mistake, I do blame the tea party congress folks for voting no continually. I call that holding our country hostage. What do you call it? The debt ceiling needed to be paid to meet our obligations. To not do it would be totally irresponsible and …well…immoral.
@Moon-howler
Good! I’m saying I support your views, actually, I encourage it! S&P just downgraded Fannie and Freddie, sending the Dow down further. Let’s hear your reasoning for blaming the Tea Party for that!
Obviously you have reading issues. I am not going to keep repeating myself.
I was very clear what I blamed them for and why.
I suppose this amounts to “Beware of unintended consequences.”
Use any definition of patriotic you like. Anyone can think anyone else is patriotic. That wasn’t the key point. Nobody said you called anyone a terrorist, but Biden sure as heck did…..do you disagree? And again, I think blaming the Tea Party (as you’re instructed to do by Lord Sideous…er, I mean, Axelrod) is a winner!
“Holding the country hostage” sounds like a pretty serious denouncement of unpatriotic politicians.
At least you’re in good company. I mean, these people are all about civility.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2011/08/hypocrisy-thy-name-is-democrat.html
You’re not calling Tea Party Americans terrorists. But you’re in the same company as those that are.