This dude’s name is Ryan Rhodes. He’s lucky he didn’t find himself face down on the hay bale, sucking straw, with a secret service officer on either side.
He was rude. There is a protocol for speaking to the president. It is based on years of tradition and custom. The woman on Ryan’s left was just as bad. Real patriots honor our traditions.
Additionally, they were stretching the truth. Saying that someone took something hostage is not calling them a terrorist. There is too much of that illogical thinking going around these days. Vice President Biden was not the offending party. Bottom line, it was wrong. It was the equivalent of the reporter throwing the shoe at President Bush. Totally unacceptable. This might be 15 minutes of fame he does not want.
“This dude’s name is Ryan Rhodes. He’s lucky he didn’t find himself face down on the hay bale, sucking straw, with a secret service officer on either side.”
Wow. I apologize if I ever called you left of center. That level of fascism is worthy of a statue in Germany. I just hope that was editorializing and not your real opinion.
“He was rude. There is a protocol for speaking to the president. It is based on years of tradition and custom. The woman on Ryan’s left was just as bad. Real patriots honor our traditions.”
I think this encounter actually played up to Mr. Obama’s strength. He was calm, cool, collected and didn’t wave them off. He was Presidential. I think in the court of public opinion Mr. Obama came off as the winner.
Marin, are you familiar at all with how seriously the secret service takes presidential security? Ever talked to some of those guys?
My opinion is unimportant. If they so much as think there is remote danger, they pretty much muscle the offender.
And I agree, the Prez came off well. However, that fact doesn’t negate the fact that the partiers were extremely rude.
……extremely rude and advocating putting an American citizen on the ground to eat dirt because he disagrees with the President to his face? Whole different ball of wax.
It’s also something a Chief of Staff would get very irate over. It makes the President look weak if he has to have his security detail remove rude but otherwise harmless citizens.
No, I’m not familiar with the Secret Service. 😉
Funny story. Was in a tropical location teaching some field agents my course. We ended that Friday and we all decided to goto the USS Arizona as a group. On the way an agent started talking to me and said that I ought to do a class in Bangkok and that he could do what he could to introduce me to some “yellow women”. I chuckled nervously and thanked him. He failed to notice Angela wrapped on my arm with a look of revulsion.
I never did book that trip!
The POTUS played this well. He came off the winner. I think if we keep it to that – I think we’re ok. Advocating the nightstick treatment to someone who has the audacity to ask a rude question? ….fail.
Did you hear me advocating it? I most assuredly did not. I simply said he was lucky that didn’t happen. I can be aware of how things work without approving or disapproving of it. Much of my world has been JUST IS.
I have known 5-6 of those guys personally. They don’t fool around. Presidential security isn’t based on whether someone disagrees or not. It is based on risk assessment.
If we are uncomfortable watching…it stands to reason that people there felt ill at ease. I would not have liked being in the crowd. Secret service is professional but they work with lightning speed.
I think many of us are more comfortable with the formal rules that dictate how one speaks to the president. It is like being horrified when people who crow and blow about how patriotic they are hang the American flag up the wrong way. That happened locally.
Well, he did have us buy a new bus for him so he could go out to the Heartland and talk to the people. And the people talked to him. They didn’t spit on him. They didn’t call him names. They didn’t throw a shoe at him. They didn’t wave an angry fist at him. They were in the assigned spectator area. He went over to talk to them. I don’t see what the beef is here. This is not a royal kingdom where you have to bow and scrape and curtsey to the ruler. You address the man politely as Mr. President and tell him truthfully how you feel about things. Isn’t that want he said he came to hear?
I agree to a point with Marinm. POTUS engaged. He did not signal security to intervene to help him avoid questions from his constituents. Had he done that, he would never hear the end of it. As for the Secret Service, this is something for which they always prepare as much as they can. They don’t especially like it because it makes the job harder, but they plan for it. Several presidents really forced them to study how to handle these situations effectively. LBJ and Clinton, if I am recalling correctly, were notorious at breaking through the SS ring of protection to engage the crowd very closely. Nevertheless, it can make the SS agents sweat. If, for instance, they had not known who Monica Lewinsky was, you can imagine what their consternation would have been to see some woman in the crowd hugging the POTUS.
I have never heard of a president signalling to be rescued. That is the job of secret service.
My beef is they were rude. The woman was actually ruder than Ryan. I saw his interview with Neil Cavuto. Cavuto didn’t seem real impressed either.
I just didn’t like their behavior. Clinton was hard to keep track of. I don’t know about LBJ.
There sure are a lot of freaks, nuts, weirdos, and mutants in that tea party.
I had no idea Starryflight’s relatives were in the Tea Party! Imagine that!
Free speech is messy. The guy didn’t get physical, so there was no threat to the president. He was just talking. So what if it made the president uncomfortable to have to explain himself? Props to Obama for engaging the guy and not shying away.
I would hate to live in a world where taxpayer-paid thugs knocked people to the ground just for asking the president to answer for the words and actions of his administration, despite what some freaks, nuts, weirdos and mutants might think is necessary to shelter Obama from having to actually answer for anything.
I think it is one thing to criticize the POTUS. It’s another thing to make a scene as these folks did. It is a little uncomfortable. Criticize all you want, but when standing directly in front of him like this, maybe bite your tongue and say “pleased to meet you, Mr. President”. I honestly think a line was crossed here. HOWEVER, I can’t help but remember who said “Get in their faces” during a campaign speech. That’s no excuse for what happened here, but just saying……live by the sword.
The guy is a disgrace to the tea party movement. He gets a chance to talk with the President of the United States and uses the opportunity to complain that Biden called him “Big Nose” or whatever Biden said. This is what he considers the most pressing issue of the day.
Is there a link that shows what Biden actually said?
Biden has denied that he called them terrorists, although some of the Democrats at the meeting used the word terrorist.
Obama came out the winner, as he was willing to have a conversation with Rhodes, Rhodes comes out the loser because he was unwilling to have a conversation until Obama gave in that Biden had called them terrorists (Biden has said that he did not say that).
Protocol? Manners like Roman Numerals and cloth napkins have been dismissed as useless. The erosion of our social mores is pretty much liked to the decline in expectation of manners. Little things like saying hello to those you know and don’t know and forks on the left have been ridiculed out of mainstream society. Where the fork is placed is not important but the discipline and consistancy separated us from animals. But that behaviour was mistakenly viewed as snooty. So, folks welcome to the streets its certainly not snooty.
As I watched this discussed yesterday, it was said that the original remark was made by Biden. It was someone sitting near Biden. I can’t remember the person’s name. Also they said holding hostage and that got translated to terrorist according to Faux News.
Just shoot me. I quoted Fox News.
To all those who still think I was encouraging the SS to Break the noses of the TP people….go read again. I said they were lucky that didn’t happen. Watch the presidential videos (doesn’t matter who is president). Those dudes have one objective. Protect the POTUS. Their eyes never rest. One false move…they take whoever to the ground. They don’t have time to be politically correct, marin. Do they behave like fascists, I believe you said? Irrelevant. It might have been me that was a facist. Yawn. Oh well. Just another example of how far right I am.
I think you should talk to your 5-6 friends about how PPD is done and what would’ve happened to an agent that would’ve taken this man to the ground for simply asking a question.
I don’t think the SS is fascist. I think editorializing that he was lucky he didn’t get a knee on his throat is pushing a line.
I can see what you meant but I’ll say that it didn’t come off as how you had intended it..
@marin
READ MY LIPS. I did not say the man should have been taken down for simply asking a question. Look at the video and there’s a little more to it than that. I said he was lucky that didn’t happen. Misplaced hands, a gesture perceived as threatening could all elicite an undesirable outcome.
Why it even happened at a Manassas City meeting last summer.
Here is what I said: He’s lucky he didn’t find himself face down on the hay bale, sucking straw, with a secret service officer on either side.
You don’t see a certain degree of hyberole being used here? You are making a big deal out of nothing. If you don’t care for my writing style (and there was many a college professor who obviously did not, back in the day.) then there is an obvious suggestion. I understand sleep deprivation makes people say and do things they wouldn’t ordinarily do.
“Don’t pick your nose!”
“I wasn’t gonna pick my nose…I was gonna thump him!”
@Slowpoke Rodriguez Don’t get me wrong, I think the guy acted like an ass, and Obama handled it well. But in America you are allowed to act like an ass, even in front of the President. Americans don’t have to pay deference to their elected representatives, and that is as it should be. Far worse was done to George Bush, even to the extent of a Hollywood movie about his assassination. But the Dems are going to play this for all it’s worth. Look how they’re now pretending Rick Perry committed some horrible racial slur because he referred to “the black cloud of debt” hanging over America. Two sets of rulebooks, always.
Emma — A passage from that second set of rules. Written in Daily Kos of 10 December 2009 by a fellow who was trying to lecture liberal activists on how to be effective:
“It is not necessarily a bad thing to appear to have a double standard where you cut a Democrat some slack on something that was a point of criticism under a Republican. The system is way too f**ked up to believe that playing by the rules will effect change.”
That fellow is a dedicated Obama follower, a member of MoveOn.org, and an employee of the AFL-CIO. He is currently the Democratic candidate for supervisor in Sterling Park.
Interesting that he now wants to be an elected representative of said f**ked-up system. Has anyone called him out on this?
Oh, wait, what am I saying?
@Emma
Emma, why do you always go to the extreme? It really cuts out being able to discuss solutions. Why is everything either right or left operatives? How about the rest of us out here?
I never heard anything about the black cloud and I would have thought…what an ass to think that one up. I refused to watch the Bush movie until he was out of office. It was a fairly stupid movie and it should not have been distributed while he was in office, if for no other reason we were at war, not to mention, just good taste. By the same token, Clinton should have never gone to trial over what’s her name until he was out of office.
The guy made an ass of himself. No one has to show deference, but if you want to be taken seriously, you just play by the rules. That’s what makes for a civilized society.
Sort of the reason we use the Marquess of Queensberry rules in boxing. It seems everyone from being street thugs.
@Wolverine,
Aren’t you the lucky one!!
Yeah, Moon, I can hardly wait for that guy to knock on my door.
Doe anyone ACTUALLY know what Biden or whoever said? How can we have a discussion about this without know who said what? Please provide sources. This conversations reminds me of the limerick:
There was a queer named Bloom
Who took a lesbian up to his room
and the argue and fought
about who should do what
with which and to whom.
I know, I know, it is not politically correct, but I ain’t running for anything.
@Moon-howler I’m not following you. What “extremes”?
right and left extremes @emma
George — Politico says they originally got the story via a tip from someone who was in the room with Veep Biden and the others. The claim is that Biden verbally agreed with Pennsylvania Congressman Mike Doyle that the Tea Party people were “acting like terrorists” (Biden’s alleged words). Biden’s office denied it. The Oval Office backed Biden’s claim. But Biden’s people did not ask for a retraction. The WaPo Fact Checker opined that the Politico story was “dubious” but had no sources of their own to counter it.
Politico now says that they have received a confirmation of their orginal story through two different reporters from four other sources in the room; but, of course, they will not reveal their sources. So far, no requests from Biden’s people for a Politico retraction of the story. Politico is sticking by the story.
The URL for Wolverine’s post is http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61590.html.
For the record, POLITICO stands by the story and has done so since the moment it was posted on our website. Furthermore, the vice president’s office has never asked for a correction or retraction despite follow-up denials by Biden himself.
well, if it is true…so what? He didn’t issue it as a press release. I said they were holding the country hostage…of my own free will. Its an opinion. At least he didn’t say F-ing terrorist.
Why is everyone growing thin skin all of a sudden? You know what they say about if you dish it out…..
so now we don’t even have a real source regarding Biden’s words? These peoples behavior is simply unacceptable. I believe they are an embarrassment to the TEA party and to themselves. They just demonstrated pure classlessness!
Maybe if Biden had just told the TEA party to go f#$@k themselves like cheney said to Senator Leahy, they would have applauded instead of whined?
http://crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/dick-cheney-yea-ill-told-pat-leahy-b
excellent point!
I don’t get that. What is meant by a “real source”?
Marin, Bachmann is taking a lot of criticism for her goon squad wearing yellow tshirts that say security. They have been very agressive, according to those complaining. Any opinion here
real source = one that is verifiable.
So far all that is out there is gossip.
@Moon-howler
To 34, opinion on a shirt? No. But, if your going to make a point about Bachmann you might as well link the Politicio story where her security detail.
“The campaign makes no apologies for its physically aggressive approach to media management, asserting that it is simply doing what it has to do to protect a popular, controversial candidate. The most aggressive aide — a tall, silver-haired man according to reporters — a spokeswoman said, is a former Secret Service agent who has guarded presidents. He and an advance woman frequently make physical contact with reporters.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61598.html
My opinion would be that Mr. Obama is more comfortable with confrontation than Ms. Bachmann.
#35 is plain silly.
http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/12/16/saupload_policymakers.jpg
@marinm
I can’t. I heard it on TV this morning.
I am not sure I think she is wrong. People are nuts. She is strange. It sounds like a perfect storm. She should keep her security. So what if they are goons. Keep back and they won’t mess with you.
I should have finished reading. I don’t think anyone should have to be comfortable with confrontation. Now what kind are we talking about? Someone coming up to verbally discuss how you are wrong or someone coming up to bust your chops?
Bachmann is far more verbally agressive than the president.
How about explaining to me why you think listening to gossip ispreverable to getting verified information. Silly? Perhaps that explains your weird political positions. You don’t get information verified.
Did I miss your point or were you saying I was silly.
“I don’t think anyone should have to be comfortable with confrontation.”
I think if your in public office it’s odd to not be comfortable with confrontation. Government is about making 1/2 the people happy and upsetting 1/2 the people. But, in the end you represent both halves (or should). So, if a candidate for office is afraid to talk to the electorate thats a bad omen.
“Someone coming up to verbally discuss how you are wrong or someone coming up to bust your chops?”
Both can be the same, right? Let me put it this way. If Ms. Bachmann is scared to talk to a voter how does that bode for her ability to talk to a foreign leader that may not have America in its’ best interest? To me this goes to character. Again, I’ll say Mr. Obama demonstrated more of it than Ms. Bachmann. Slight sour taste in my mouth saying that but truth > making stuff up.
It’s the first time I thought you made a silly argument, ever.
“You don’t get information verified.”
I’m fairly anal about linking URLs to support the points that I make. I usually try not to go too far off the reservation and where I have I’ve admitted when I was wrong or didn’t convey something the way it should’ve been. I think one poster here even said they appreciated my academic honesty for admitting an error.
It’s actually saddening to see the above quote about me. I just expected more.
As I said, I can’t link to a segment on TV. I am sure it is on there though.
I live in a dream world where people use good manners. I don’t think anyone should have to put up with confrontation. Confrontation generally involved discord and clashing of ideas. I see no reason why people can’t be courteous.
No one ever said any candidate should have to fear talking to the public. I am strictly speaking of physical or verbal unpleasantness. Furthermore, I am comfortable with Bachmann having a goon squad. As long as they aren’t attack dogs, she should be able to have the type of security she feels necessary, within the confines of the law.
No candidate should be touched, by the way.
For Marin:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/08/dont-mess-michele-bachmanns-security-team/41425/
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/08/michelle-bachmann-s-security-guards-accused-of-rough-treatment-65309.html
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/08/michelle-bachmann-s-security-guards-accused-of-rough-treatment-65309.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61598.html
From time to time I put up things I hear on TV. I pause and listen, then relisten.
It doesn’t get more verified than that.
As for Joe Biden, the report of him calling the tea party people in congress ‘terrorists’ has not been verified. And if he did, so what? At least he didn’t call them f-ing terrorists.
I called them hostage takers. Is there punishment for that? I expect after this week, lots of people want to punish me. Take a number.
Well, if that is your definition of a “real source,” I would suppose, then, that you would have to discount as mere gossip every news story which comes from undisclosed sources, whether that entails the NYT, WaPo, LA Times, the networks, or anyone else who decides that protection of source identity is in order. Protection of sources is SOP in cases where sources may simply dry up if you have a reputation for disclosure. Reporters have gone to jail in the name of our shield laws.
You don’t have to buy into a story with undisclosed sources as gospel truth; but, at the least, you ought to take into account the reputation of the media outlet. Otherwise, you would have discounted, for example, much of what Woodward and Bernstein wrote about Watergate because they refused to disclose the identity of Deep Throat and other sensitive informants.
As far as I can see, Politico, started by two former editors of WaPo and focused entirely on Federal politics and government, is an established media player in Washington. Sometimes the Left accuses it of going too far Right,and then the Right accuses it of going too far Left, suggesting there is an element of fair and balanced here. If their informants on this issue were actually inside that room, they surely would not want their names attached to the Politico article. Doing so would cut Politico off from a lot of potential sources. Suicidal for any genuine news organization.
Express skepticism about the report if you want. But I hardly think that the situation calls for describing it sans proof as not being provided through “real sources.”
All I know is Joe Biden denied he said it and someone else did say that the someone else whose name I dont remember said it. If it was Joe Biden, then I would need proof since he denied it. He has said some pretty outrageous things so I don’t know why he would bother to lie about it.
I would consider Politico fairly reliable. I just haven’t bothered to go look. The problem is,k I don’t really care if he said it or not.