That Michele Bachmann is just thigh-slapping funny. No, not really. Over the weekend, she “joked” with Floridians about God sending a message to Americans in the form of earthquakes and hurricanes.
According to the Washington Post:
I don’t know how much God has to do to get the attention of the politicians. We’ve had an earthquake; we’ve had a hurricane. He said, ‘Are you going to start listening to me here?’ Listen to the American people because the American people are roaring right now. They know government is on a morbid obesity diet and we’ve got to rein in the spend.”
I am not so sure that the earthquake or the hurricane was any laughing matter. Every street in Vermont has been impacted by water. Billions of dollars have been lost because of the hurricane just in the form of people having to shut down their businesses, especially in seasonal tourist areas. There is also the cost of property damage which will be in the billions of dollars. The earthquake damage which probably will be far less costly, still was disruptive and scary. Entire transit systems have been closed down.
While most people are giving thanks to their maker that things aren’t as bad as they could have been, Bachmann is making jokes. Folks weren’t even out of harms way before she turned two natural, potentially serious events in to a laughing matter, which they weren’t. That’s a strike out in my book.
How does she know that God isn’t just PO’ed about the Republican field of candidates…
I always thought she was a border line case.
This just proves it beyond a doubt.
Oh. come on and lighten up there, partisans. “Do you think God may be trying to tell us something?” is a joke that is as old as the hills. Probably got started with the stories of Noah and Job. Sheeesh.
Had she mentioned locusts I might have laughed. Maybe.
Is it partisan to think she is a jerk and Huntsman isn’t? Why is that partisan?
I don’t think it is smart to make jokes while folks are still in harms way. Today people in New England are stills stranded in flooded homes. She just shows poor social skills to have laughed. Acquiring good social skills is generally something learned long before this point in time.
What is it that Bachmann exibits that makes you think she is qualified for the presidency? I wouldn’t elect her to be on the board of supervisors for PWC. Bad social skill. Not knowing the appropriateness of comments.
You mean why must we policitize everything. Don’t they get how sick and tired we are of all of them??!!!
If Obama had read the same joke off the “Teleprompter of Power”, we’d all be in stitches!
I hope she does not try and become a comedian, because, if she meant that as a joke, her delivery was not very good.
Well, O.K. then, let’s get started. Al Gore, former Veep and Democratic candidate for the Oval Office just said that anyone who opposes his version of climate change and global warming, is akin to the old-time racists in the South. What a jerk! Whatever made anyone think that this chap was qualified for the presidency?
So we don’t think the Earthquake and the Hurricane are laughing matters, huh? Well, I’d say that the Special Olympics is not a laughing matter, but that didn’t stop Obama from once joking that his bowling performance was akin to “special olympics bowling”. And just for the record….the earthquake WAS a laughing matter.
@Slow
The earthquake wasn’t a laughing matter ot most people. To most, it was terrifying. It disrupted the entire day and caused damage.
Special Olympics isn’t a laughing matter and unfortunately reminents of reference to that issue are still around in our speech. Now we are more politically correct, people try not to say stuff like that. the president slipped and apologized. He was wrong and he said he was wrong. It’s sort of like making short bus references. Its still part of speech in America.
Not a good analogy to using an earthquake and hurricane for political gain.
I think she may be on to something. The earthquake was centered in Virginia’s 7th Congressional district and Texas is in the midst of an epic draught and wildfire period which, according to the Texas Forest Service, has burned 3,529,261 acres so far this season. On the other hand, New York City (Sodom to those on the far right) and Los Angeles (Gomorrah for TPers) have been spared. Even Pat Robertson could read those tea leaves.
Hmmm, and the unemployment rate in Texas is………and the unemployment rate in New York and California is…….and the best Doctors are pouring into…..Texas. And the wealthy and upper-middle class are moving out of…..California and New York.
You surprise me, Wolve. People were not suffering due to climate change and global warming. – Bachmann’s statements were made while people all along the eastern seaboard are trying to get back to “normal” after a natural disaster. There’s a difference.
@Punchak
Actually, when Bachmann put her foot in it, people were still in the middle of Irene. She made the statement over the weekend.
And @Wolverine, he didn’t say HIS version of climate change. He was speaking in general of climate change. He said that people should treat it LIKE those in the south who made statements about race relations and thought it was perfectly ok. He said they should be called out and get told that kind of talk is offensive.
What do you find offensive about that? I thought it was an interesting way to look at it and having grown up in the south at the time he was speaking of, I knew exactly what he was talking about. At what point do you step up to the plate and say the coversation is making you uncomfortable because you find it unacceptable.
I know as a young woman I sat through many a conversation dealing with race, often in front of wait staff and other people who the discussion might make very uncomfortable. At what point do we grow a set and tell people you aren’t going to participate in conversation.
I wouldn’t involve myself in a conversation that had dinosaurs and people co-existing or involved the Grand Canyon being 6,000 years old. I wouldn’t argue climate change because I don’t have the scientific background to argue–however I wouldn’t sit there and let those who believe that man has some impact on the earth be ridiculed.
I daresay that five to six of the posters on this thread are highly unlikely to vote for a Republican ticket under any circumstance. This particular discussion just adds to the overall background noise level. Bachmann sticking her foot in her mouth is certainly nothing new.
If you want to discuss the recent poll that shows that one out of four Democrats wants to dump Obama, that is something that is new and interesting.
@Kelly
I wouldn’t assume that at all. There are plenty of folks here who consider themselves Independent. In fact, there are very few Democrats on this blog. I think you are mistaking centrists for liberals. I probably would never vote for a Republican ticker per se but I have often voted for Republicans, the last time being last Tuesday.
You are free to discuss recent polls in the open thread. No one is stopping you and I feel certain my opinion is of little value to you so go for it! That’s the reason I keep an open thread at all times–just for times like this.
Actually your opinion is of great value — you definitely see things differently than I do. It’s just that I already know that you don’t like Bachmann.
I guess everyone needs someone to pick on. Why is she still even in the running?
Yes, we do see things differently, most of the time.
@Kelly. Wait until I put up a new open thread and start the topic.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
The problem is, I don’t think she was joking.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
I guess if you count low paying service sector jobs as “jobs” and if you take into consideration that many of the jobs were underwritten by stimulus dollars, and we seem to have one hell of a lot of good doctors around here, and does anyone care if the rich move out of California and New York. And who would forget that Texas balanced its budget using federal stimulus dollars? And if Perry is so connected to God, how come his prayers for rain haven’t worked? Does God know something that Perry doesn’t? And as for Bachmann–I gotta believe she is close to certifiable.
How much does Texas employment have to do with the gulf spill last summer? How does that all break down? I am also curious as to the types of jobs.
Punchak — That wasn’t really intended as a nasty slam against Al Gore and his crusade about global warming. I really couldn’t care less what Gore says these days. What it really was intended to be was a tongue-in-cheek slam against the all too frequent use of nasty names like “jerk” and “moron” and “borderline case” in the blogosphere these days. (I have a long list of even nastier ones from other blogs I could throw in here.) When did we lose the knack for simply voicing reasoned opposition to events or contrary views without adding the ad hominems for some kind of spitting mad emphasis? And who in the Hell is George S. Harris or anyone else to say that they think someone else is “close to certifiable”? But, heck, if you guys want to dispense with reasoned debate and turn this self-proclaimed civil blog into a war with verbal battle axes, I am sure that there are some of us who can spice up virtually every post with the appropriate ammo. Up to you guys.
She wasn’t joking, Moon. That’s the problem. This was a Pat Robertson comment (9/11 was God’s way of punishing us for tolerating homosexuals), plain and simple.
The power of denial. It’s quite a force!
@Wolverine
Here’s the funny thing. I you take a long, reasoned look at comments on any given issue, going back as long as you might wish…..you will find that the vast majority of name-calling comes from the left (and I mean the VAST majority). Does it matter? Not really. It’s just funny because there is a pattern you will notice that the left almost always accuses the right of the exact thing they themselves are guilty of. Once you see these general patterns, it’s fun to watch the predictability in action.
As a disinterested observer … she’s dumber than a box full of rocks.
A presidential candidate laughing at victims of natural disasters is vile, sickening, repulsive and disgusting.
Her recovery sure wasn’t very good. In the original statement that is being shown, she was dead serious. The fact that people laughed was just the audience being ‘engaged.’
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
I would say that there are no innocents on this score. Everyone always wants to blame the other guy.
And finally, if the worst someone is called is a jerk, life is good. With that potty mouth, surely you aren’t offended?
I didn’t take her comments as a “joke”. I do believe the same message was repeated after a fashion, from pulpits all over America. It was in mine, although it was directed at American society as a whole, and not singularly at the government. I happen to agree with the message I received this past Sunday.
What about those of us who have been taught that part of the ‘good news’ is that God no longer smites down those he wants to punish?
I see little difference in saying that God sent an earthquake and hurricane and what Westover Church proclaims with their God hates fags message.
Is Christianity really that divided on the issue of the Almighty meting out punishment?
Gee, what ever happened to the message that the rainbow is the sign that God will never again destroy man by water?
Had that drilled into my head in Catholic School more than once as a child. Of course, me being me, I once asked a Nun why, after a particular nasty hurricane, if that was a sign, did it rain like the dickens and flood things. The reply was something like the hurricane is a reminder of God’s power, but he won’t break his promise. Sounds so simple when you are a child.
Of course, years later, the Romans and I parted our ways.
Agreed. In the rest of that speech where she started prattling on about drilling in the Everglades and we can do it without affecting the environment really got me laughing! She definitely does not have all the chips in her cookie for sure.
Moon,
The Good News is there is a way to be foregiven, and a way to defeat death and receive everlasting life. But if you read the last book of the Bible, there’s a whole lot of “smiting” going on. Also, in several places in both the old and new testaments, there’s descriptions of the coming of the end, eathquakes and wars, famine and sickness, civil unrest, etc. These are all intended to tell folks “hurry up, the train is leaving”. I do believe scripture describes this as “the birth pains”.
I didn’t say I agree with Bachman’s directing this at the Fed. What I said was I agree that God is trying to get our attention.
Now comparing this to what is truely a mess age of hate, that spewed by the Westboro Baptist Church is WAY over the top.
Lastly, if anyone claiming to be a follower of Christ says that God hates sinners, please correct them. God hates sin. God loves sinners.
@Steve Thomas
The end times smiting is probably where we part ways. It just really isn’t part of my belief system. I don’t argue it because of the key word: belief. That’s what faith is. None of us knows. We only believe.
I was getting ready to say I didn’t say that Bachmann was like Westboro. Then I reread and I see why you thought I did. Let me clarify:
I don’t think what she said was delivered in Westboro fashion which is hate speech. However, I do think that believing that a good and loving God delivers hurricanes and earthquakes to punish those who sin or don’t vote right etc is getting dangerously close to Westboro.
And that is just a statement of my belief. I will never ever claim to KNOW what God is thinking. I can only guess, based on my belief system.
Moon,
thanks for clarifying. We’ll just have to respectfully disagree, regarding our impressions as to whether or not God is trying to deliver a message to His children. But this begs the question: If none of us can claim to know the mind of God (I certainly can’t, but I do my best to at least try by reading His word), then what was Michelle Bachman’s crime? She spoke her beliefs: She believes, as do many Christians, that God is trying to get our attention. So why the criticisim? Why the ridicule? I believe that God wastes nothing. He can/does use every tragedy to show His power. Someone loses everything in a fire. He inspires friends and neighbors to show compassion and help their neighbor. This sort of thing. Did He will the fire? I don’t believe so. But, He did permit it to happen.
Many of us find the notion that God would reign down fire and brimstone on innocent people offensive. Furthermore, it seemed way too political. Bottom line, it was an inappropriate remark for a political rally.
Now, can she make that kind of remark in her church? I have no problem with that. She can believe what she choses.
Did He will the fire? I think that is the crux of the situation. Bachmann made it sound like He willed the hurricane and earthquake. Did she state it explicitly? No. But the implication was there.
I suppose my bottom line is, God doesn’t have to try to get our attention. He could get it in a nano-second if he wanted it, on a very personal level.
I just don’t believe God needs gimmicks.
And agreed on the agree to disagree.
I
Can someone please tell me what the “good news” is? Have people finally decided that we need to start treating each other with compassion and respect? Have Republicans decided that Obama is not the anti christ? Has the TEA party decided it’s better to negotiate than destory a country over ideology?
Why is it people feel they have the ability to determine what G-d’s intentions are or are not? Do horrible events happen because G-d wants our attention? Well, during the Holocaust, very religious jews believed that they were being punished for not being observant enough. Hitler did not rise to power because G-d wanted to teach the world a lesson, Hitler grew to power because people weren’t paying attention, because of a whole host of reasons, NOT because G-d was teaching the world a lesson.
In this day and age, the idea that people associate every bad thing that happens with unseen “Gods” who will be placated with animal sacrifices, or rain dances, or proclamations against homosexuality … is really wild to me.
To take the fact that we don’t know why we are here or why reality exists, wrap it in a bow and call it “God” … with no idea why God is there or who made him/her … and to think that this is adult behavior in the information age … is really wild to me.
To choose to believe in demonstrably false fairy tales that devalue rational thought, and to want to fight for policies that stand in support of those fairy tales … is really wild to me.
I understand how people can make that choice for a few years in their life, when they are taught these fables as children. I believed in Christianity until I was 19, and I was a smart kid. But at some point doesn’t it become obvious to people that neither they, nor their pastors, are actually talking to God? Do some people really believe this stuff for decades? It’s, um, wild to me.
“Hitler grew to power because people weren’t paying attention, because of a whole host of reasons, NOT because G-d was teaching the world a lesson.”
IMO he also grew to power, in a Christian Democracy, because human beings are conditioned by religion away from rational thought and towards rationalizing bad things as good (as we’ve been talking about). I have a feeling that as the world slides further away from religious belief, that it’ll be a better place. I understand that there are two sides to that issue … that religion keeps many people from focusing on and suffering from depresing aspects of their lives, and sometimes motivates some people towards “good” … but on the whole I think we should move towards finding better ways to frame our lives than to accept something as silly as any of the world religions.
In my pollyanna-ish naivite, I actually believe that the natural state of man is to want to do “good” things, and that evil is a “lack of clarity”; that rational thought leads to positive rather than negative things. Time will tell. Regardless of whether one sees the world more in those terms, or in terms of mankind being so fundmantally flawed that it needs to be guided by fables – one way or the other in this information age religious belief is dwindling and will inevitably dwindle down to nothing.
Alternately, there’s a train of thought that religions are evolving, towards betterment, as with anything else … and the Gods of the future will exist, filling some weird evolutionary need for faith and belief that I can’t relate to … http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-God-Robert-Wright/dp/0316734918
But I take some pleasure, product of an overbearing father who was religious, in standing and shouting that to choose to believe in someone else’s story and to actually shape your life towards it is the stupidest f***ing thing I’ve heard of.
Amen, Rick!
Following this logic to a conclusion, it’s quite possible that The Almighty was indeed trying to teach a lesson. As in “hey morons, in the future pay attention to whom you elect.”
Sadly, the lesson failed to take, as amply evidenced by our current predicament.
@Elena
“The Good News” is a Christian term that is very multi-faceted. Part of it, and the context in which I used it deals with the idea that in the beginning, man was obedient to God. However, man became disobedient and God was angry with man. The coming of Christ was symbolic of God no longer being angry with man. That is the real real short version.
In other words, God was no longer one to hurl down fire and brimstone on mankind.
“Has the TEA Party decided it’s better to negotiate than destroy a country over ideology?”
There it is again. A blatant and insulting accusation that Tea Party people are ready and willing to destroy their own country to make an ideological point. With remarks like that, does one actually think that there is room here for civil conversation? I did not agree with Rick Perry’s choice of the word “treasonous” to describe the current direction of the Fed. I will equally scold Elena for a statement which can only be destructive of any hope for productive dialogue and compromise. “I am right and you are wrong. Therefore, you are trying to destroy our country.” That is a national sin being committed far too much by both sides, and it just splits the divide even further.
As for Rick’s mockery of Christian believers, I ask only this: You made a choice not to believe, as is your absolute right. But what does it gain you to belittle those who have opted to keep their faith?
White House takes shot at Rep. Cantor over Hurricane Irene disaster aid
By Ian Swanson – 08/30/11 12:08 PM ET
White House press secretary Jay Carney on Tuesday took a shot at House Republican Majority Leader Eric Cantor for insisting disaster aid for Hurricane Irene should be offset with other spending cuts.
Speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One, Carney said the federal government’s priority should be to respond to the disaster. He also noted that Cantor (R-Va.) hadn’t demanded offsets when the Bush administration rang up “unprecedented bills.”
“I guess I can’t help but say that I wish that commitment to looking for offsets had been held by the House majority leader and others, say, during the previous administration when they ran up unprecedented bills and never paid for them,” Carney said, according to a White House pool report.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/178733-white-house-spokesman-takes-shot-at-cantor-over-disaster-aid
The reason that the Repugs didn’t say anything when Bush was running up bills was because that they didn’t want Bush to lose thw White House.
@Wolverine, one question, por favor….the people who voted no, not to raise the debt ceiling were mostly tea party folks, weren’t they?
As for Rick, he obviously has a reason for feeling the way he does. I dont think we should be accusing him of mockery. Anger yes, mockery no. Walk a mile in his shoes….
As Michele Bachmann laughs at God ‘punishing’ the people of American, that earthquake caused a fair amount of damage. Does Bachmann not claim to be tea party?
From insidenova.com:
@Wolverine, when these people who make outrageous statements and vote against raising the debt ceiling, identify with the tea party movement, I don’t think it is US who are at fault for bringing it up. The money I lost earlier this month sort of took away any pass I had given to folks. It has nothing to do with civility and everything to do with calling it as I see it.
If they aren’t tea party, then I stand corrected. If they are, then they are subject to criticism just like anyone else.
I think, Moon, that those Tea Party people are genuinely concerned about the future of this country and the threat inherent in that enormous mountain of debt. That, in my opinion, cannot be equated with some kind of disregard for our common safety and well being. If they seemed unduly stubborn in their stance, so did the other side. It looked to me like two stubborn groups calling each other stubborn. I don’t know about you, but I had no doubt that some compromise, temporary to be sure, would be reached before the deadline. One of the keys I was watching during the final days was Alan West, a Tea Party man through and through. When I saw the direction in which he was turning, I strongly suspected that I was right in my assessment. And, if there is something positive to have come out of this brinksmanship, it is that we now have pretty much total agreement that the national debt is a dangerous mess which has to be dealt with somehow in a forceful manner. That means soon and not somewhere down a long road.
Excuse the backlash here, but I have stated numerous times that I am Tea Party in spirit. I also spent almost all of my adult life defending our beloved country both in the field and in leadership positions at home. Anyone who starts tossing around terms like “destroy the country over ideology” or anything similar is going to find the verbal response cannon quickly unlimbered.
I understand your personal reaction to losses in the 401K. However, I am not so sure that the brinksmanship in Congress was the principal catalyst for the stock market plunge. My own feeling is that the market was like a dam long under stress from the mounting debt, the refusal of our economy to move upward, and the continuing dire problems in Europe and it didn’t take much to set off the panic mavens. Honest to God, many of those market players seem to me like a herd of longhorns on the Chisholm Trail stampeding madly because of a lightning flash. I wish more of them were like Cato, who seems to play the game with calm reasoning and cunning, or like that relative of yours who advised you not to panic and to stand pat. The damned market will come back and probably stay there — if we start getting smarter with regard to the economy and the debt. However, that is not going to happen until we all stop try to play smartypants political games and stop calling each other nasty names. And I mean EVERYBODY, including POTUS.
@Wolverine
So did the ‘other side’????? I didn’t see ‘the other side’ who had a job to pay the nation’s bills, throwing up road blocks to raising the debt ceiling at all.
I saw a bunch of people saying NO to doing somethng that had to be done. They endangered the economy and had no freaking clue what they were even doing for the most part. Any one of them who thought thats how it works is a real know-nothing.
No one ever said that the debt doesn’t need to get paid down. However, these people held the country hostage to get their political way. I am offended. I am offended over the amount of money I lost because it was a self inflicted wound. Every single person I have spoken to who works in the field of investment ‘credits’ those nay-sayers with the loss of the trillions of dollars that flushed out of the market.
The debt ceiling needed to pass in order to do the nation’s business. The debt needs to be brought down. That needs to be dealt with separately.
I don’t have a 401k, just to be honest. I just answer like I do. I have some investment portfolios. They took a major hit. It didn’t need to happen. I don’t take to the unnecessary loss of money kindly. The market was doing fine. It wasn’t under stress. Again, it was a self-inflicted wound, according to the experts.
The market is made up of all sorts of people, who invest as individuals and as institutions. A default is a very serious thing to be looking at.
If you are of the tea party in spirit, perhaps you need to tell them the reality of how things work. Brinksmanship is not the way to do things.
Just out of curiosity, if it isn’t ideology, what is it? Allowing the country to go into default really is a form of ‘destroying the country.’
I simply do not feel what happened with those 60 or so people can be excused. Mainstream Republicans certainly weren’t happy with the way things were going. I felt the entire situation was surreal.
Steve Thomas :
Sounds to me like you are pandering to the New Apostolic Reformation, Steve.
Well, Moon, if your expectation is that the other side should simply throw its own principles overboard and cave in immediately to what your side wants and believes is necessary in order to be avoid a label from you of treason, you are going to have a long, hot time over the coming year. I said before that this was going to be a fight. But I also predict that the fight will end in something that finally works, hammered out with a lot of sweat and swearing but hammered out nevertheless. For the moment, you guys seem to have been so swayed by having the Oval Office and both houses of Congress in your possession that you seem to be unable to adjust to new conditions in which the other side can and will fight back. The epithets, including that recent and absolutely inane comment from the Congressional Black Caucus that Tea Party people would like to lynch Blacks and revert to the era of Jim Crow, is a sure sign to me that the other side has not yet regained solid footing.
@Wolverine, I don’t think I necessarily have ‘a side.’ I am a moderate. I did a thread on Jon Huntsman the other day. I don’t think that went over real well either and he is a Republican last time I looked. I believe I am saying don’t ASSume I have a particular side, only a particular point of view. Sometimes mainstream Republicans address it. Other times mainstream Democrats do. The tea party rarely does.
I wanted the debt ceiling raised so the United States could conduct the business it needs to conduct. I want a combination of paying down debt by getting rid of waste everywhere (departments could probably find a lot of their own waste. It all adds up.) and restructing the tax code so the wealthy pay a little more than 18% while the middle class pays 28%. I don’t think there is a ‘side’ for that. It just seems like common sense. The tea party wants to live like a third world nation. I do not.
Going back on comments from yesterday and last night, I have decided that perhaps you were suggesting that *I* am at fault for investing since the tea party has nothing to do with the most recent stock market political ‘correction.’
I suppose they won’t mind if I am totally furious. They get to keep their principles and I don’t get to keep my money. I would have rather given it in taxes than just have it vaporize. At least I would know where it had gone.
@Wolverine
The CBC has always traveled to the beat of their own drum. I never comment. To do so just isn’t wise. Why does what they say or do have anything to do with me? Do you think these kinds of comments are new? If yes, then where have you been the past half century?
They aren’t MY side any more than the tea party is MY side.
You have chosen to align with the tea party politics. I have not chosen to align myself with the CBC. I can’t see that in the cards for me. And I won’t be aligning with the CTPC either.
Sorry, Moon, the “you” was supposed to be a generic “you,” not something directed at your person. I’ve either got to find a better formula for expressing the generic or start adding footnotes with caveats and denials!!!!
I have the same problem, Wolverine.
I hope you and Mrs. W will plan on attending out Moonhowlings get-together. Everyone had a good time last spring. Steve Thomas’s good friend owns the establishment and they take very good care of us. We all want to meet you and Elena and I especially want to meet MRS. Wolverine.