UPDATE: PWCS SCHOOLS ARE CLOSED FRIDAY BECAUSE OF FLOODING.
One of the greatest joys in life each Tuesday after Labor Day is lying in bed, listening to the buses rolling and knowing that it doesn’t involve me!
Kids, get ready to ride the cheese. Brush your teeth, put on those new clothes, and get ready to face a brand new school year. This day can make or break you. Its those 15 second first impressions that can last a year, a life-time.
Parents, prepare for Tuesday night. You will be hating life with all those bazillion forms to fill out.
Reminder that you can pay for school lunches online in Prince William County. You can also restrict them so your kid isn’t buying junk food or ice cream for her entire class. Go to www.mylunchmoney.com.
I for one am quite glad to see this school year start. I have two seniors at my house, and finally I will be done with the PWCPS for good. Well, at least until they try to bring back up that fiasco of plan for an elementary school at Stonewall Middle, or one similar. 👿
Then we have the vandalism incident at Ben Lomond Park to the playground equipment. Te park is a victim. Yet one blogger in our community feel it’s time to sell the park. UFB!
Unfortunately, my post didn’t show up there. I hope I have it saved. I guess I’m just another one to be added once again to the ban list.
You will be back in the saddle again with PWC before too long. Don’t worry. I didn’t have to wait but for a few years.
I have already been contacted about putting up a post that was removed over that incident. I have told them it is ok to post it here.
That was nice of them to ask though.
I can’t see what the big deal is. Where there are teenagers there will be ‘street art.’ The county has the equipment to remove it if someone calls. Probably the long weekend isn’t the best time. The school system is very vigilant. They come out before school opens and get rid of grafetti. Of course this is county and they are on a little different time frame.
http://www2.dailyprogress.com/news/2011/sep/01/annoying-speech-still-protected-ar-1277511/
Winchester had an ordinance written banning “disturbing, annoying or
unnecessary speech” in their city.
So, how is one suppose to run for office?
Report county graffiti here: http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010013001310006456
I like what Connie Moser and her community volunteers have been doing at McAuliffe, Enterprise and Minnieville schools this weekend — clearing and cleaning walks, curbs and gutters around the schools. What a great idea.
At the very least folks, please clean up in front of your own home. What is it about people that they clean as far as the mailbox and no further? I can’t tell you how many times I have to duck due to low-lying branches or pick up branches, sodden free newspapers, litter, nails and glass, to get it out of the way for pedestrians, cyclists and pets in our neighborhood. Give the school children a break and give them a clear walkway to school.
@Cindy, make sure you leave enough sticks for kids to poke at each other with.
Thanks, for posting the link, Cindy. I’ve contacted a couple of people with the Park Authority about the incident. I feel confident, it will be taken care of promtly.
From today’s NYT:
The United States Postal Service has long lived on the financial edge, but it has never been as close to the precipice as it is today: the agency is so low on cash that it will not be able to make a $5.5 billion payment due this month and may have to shut down entirely this winter unless Congress takes emergency action to stabilize its finances.
I would say that the USA has been living complacently for some time. Failure to address complanceny and reverse it has been credited with the decline of other civilizations…..
Food for thought:
____________________________________
In 1776, Representatives of the original thirteen colonies assembled and wrote the Declaration of Independence. With this document, our founding fathers proclaimed to the world that America was a democratic republic:
Ironically, that same year Alexander Fraser Tytler, a European historian published The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic. In his publication, Tytler reported that from his research he had determined the following:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world’s great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith,
From spiritual faith to great courage,
From courage to liberty,
From liberty to abundance,
From abundance to selfishness,
From selfishness to complacency,
From complacency to apathy,
From apathy to dependency,
From dependency back again to bondage.”
If Tytler’s conclusion is correct, this year America exceeded the average length for a democratic form of government by 33 years.
@Juturna
Maybe he didn’t factor in Leap Years? 😉
On a non-partisan, not political note. Happy Labor Day to MH, Elena and all fellow posters.
The article was written in 2009.
http://bluevirginia.us/diary/4798/remembering-mother-jones-on-labor-day
“Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living”
Thanks, Big Dog.
Blue Virginia also has a good long list of ‘nut jobs.’
http://bluevirginia.us/diary/4796/dick-saslaw-on-virginia-teapublican-senate-candidates-a-lot-of-them-are-nut-jobs
Ahead of Thursday’s jobs speech, Obama blasts House Republicans
By Sam Youngman and Erik Wasson – 09/05/11 04:15 PM ET
DETROIT — With his highly-anticipated jobs speech scheduled for Thursday, President Obama used Labor Day to fire up his base and put Republicans on notice.
Obama, speaking to an estimated crowd of 13,000 on the Detroit River here, offered a slight preview of his jobs speech, castigating Republicans for not signing on to infrastructure spending that he will propose on Thursday.
As he has been wont to do since the end of July, Obama put Congress in his crosshairs, saying that on Thursday, the country will see if Republicans are more interested in putting Americans back to work or politics.
“We’re going to see if we’ve got some straight-shooters in Congress,” Obama said. “We’re going to see if congressional Republicans will put country before party.”
The president said that the time is now for Washington to work together to deal with the economic crisis, and not spend time on a “manufactured crisis” like the debt-ceiling debate. “The time for Washington games is over,” Obama said.
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/179519-obama-previews-jobs-plan-warns-gop-against-more-games
The Repugs don’t want to create jobs because they don’t want Obama to win reelection. Guess they’ll have to learn the hard way that high unemployment isn’t helpful for incumbents either.
Rant –
As I drove around yesterday, I noticed that there was some garbage pickup in a neighboring community. The landscapers were working in another. Every store, gas station, and restaurant was open.
Is it only some jobs that get to enjoy labor day? Labor day was originally sponsored by the Unions, so that the working person had a holiday to spend with their family. Why are we moving away from that? Is it that there are jobs where a person does not deserve to spend some time with their family? Things like this are a true assault on the Family.
/Rant
Having worked retail in my earlier years I liked working Labor Day. I got paid for the holiday AND got paid for being on the floor. 2X pay for what I normally do?
Working in the white collar world now (though I wear golf shirts) I just get the day off paid and watched tv in between naps.
Seems Labor Day was interesting up in Detroit. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/09/06/140209161/tea-party-wants-obama-to-condemn-hoffas-hot-words
and we can’t forget Mr. Biden.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyharnden/100103267/will-barack-obama-condemn-joe-biden-and-jimmy-hoffa-for-calling-republicans-barbarians-and-sons-of-bitches/
Good times.
I think we can surmise that Labor Day is for white collar workers and that the real laborers are still out there laboring?
Pat and Starry, I hope that you will both be joining us next Sunday. We are a harmless group. Also if you don’t want to use your blog name, that is fine. (or your real name)
Steve will be leading the cheers. Just kidding!!!
@Starryflights
Starry,
Let’s see, your constant referral to Rebublicans as “Repugs”, Tea Party members as TEAjahdis and such, is SOP for defense of a party and administration that is failing by every generally accepted performance metric there is. Prior to making his speech, the President was introduced by Jimmy Hoffa Jr. Mr. Hoffa said something along the lines of “Mr. President, we are your army. Let’s take down those Republican Sons-of-Bitches…yada yada more inflamed rhetoric….” You have Maxine Waters saying the TEA Party can go “straight to hell”, and a prominent member of the CBC saying “the TEA Party won’t stop until Blacks are hanging from trees…”
To me, the Democrat Party is scared, and they should be. For the first 2 years of the Obama administration, the Democrats held both houses of Congress, and the White House. They could have accomplished their entire agenda, and they bungled it. The TEA Party would have never errupted onto the national stage, were it not for Obama, Reid and Pelosi trying to cram an agenda down the throats of Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public that was so far out of the mainstream as to shake the people from complacency. As the elections since 2008 have indicated, the majority of the electorate have rejected this agenda, and the Democrat brand.
So what will Obama and the Democrats run on in 2012? Will they run on their record? No, that will be suicidal. The only political strategy they have is “Admit nothing, Deny everything, Blame everybody else for what goes wrong, and demonize the GOP and their supporters at every turn.” Yep, I smell fear. I see the panic. It’s just now starting to sink in just how much they lost in the 2010 election cycle, especially with the loss of all those State legislatures. It’s starting to become clear that if things don’t turn around dramatically, the Democrats will become an inconsequential minority for at least the next decade…the problem is, they haven’t a clue what to do, as everything they have tried to date has failed. What makes it so tough for the most liberal members of the party is they had it all, and totally bungled the opportunity. Yes indeed, I could see why this would make a Democrat bitter, so bitter the only arrow in their collective quiver is name-calling.
Hmmmm. Polls show that John and Jane Q. Public hold the Republican party in higher contempt than they do the Prez. Who should be more fearful?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/06/obama-polls-congress-all-time-lows_n_950521.html
I think is what Censored is referring to.
Interestingly, we see..
“Obama’s personal ratings do remain strong. In the NBC/Journal poll, for example, 70 percent say they like him personally (although nearly half of those who like Obama also say they disapprove of many of his policies). But the president’s political position remains perilous. As Democratic pollster Peter Hart puts it simply to NBC News, “Obama is no longer the favorite to win re-election.”
I also like this poll. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-poll-economy-20110906,0,7074574.story
“With California unemployment mired at 12%, the electorate is clearly dissatisfied with the status quo. Nearly 3 in 4 voters say the country is on the wrong track, up sharply from the 55% who felt that way in November 2009.”
I like our odds for the elections.
I don’t know…I hear both sides talking a lot of smack. Jury is out on who is worse.
Marin, we are light years away from that election. I don’t even speculate.
Censored,
Is that why Obama loses to a “generic GOP” candidate in the same polls? Check out realclearpolitics.com which aggregates all polls. Also, Rasmussen has Obama losiing to Perry and Sabato has Obama losing all the swing states.
I would like to commend the Obama administration for reducing our footprint in Iraq to 3000 troops. It’s 3000 too many, but it’s not bad!
@Steve Thomas
You Republicans have had a couple years to talk smack about Obama. Let’s see if any of your hopefuls can stand having the spotlight put on them. One of your darlings, Sarah Palin, is so afraid of having to actually form complete sentences that she skirts around the debates. Others are too fringe for the average Joe or Jane. And you have a couple documented flip-floppers among your crew as well. After they’re through getting rough with each other in order to get the Republican nod and get chewed up by the press and Dems, we’ll see how they fare.
I am watching them tear each other up. You are right. Lots of talking smack about Obama. Plus…you and I remember all the hideous smack talked aboutu Clinton.
http://www.nolabels.org
townhall meeting.
Howard Schultz is one of the leaders. Basically, all of us out there who aren’t die-hard party people are pretty pissed off over what the parties are doing to our country.
I am on the phone with them but you can watch streaming from their website.
now here is a pledge for you to think about:
from http://www.nolabels.org
Howard Schultz got 150 CEOs to sign on:
We believe that right now our economy is frozen in a cycle of fear and uncertainty. We believe the only way to break this cycle is through positive action.
This is why our company pledges to do everything we can to accelerate job creation before the end of 2011.
I love the expression ‘job creation’. What the heck exactly is that? First there needs to be a demand from someone who can afford to pay the one doing the job (This leaves the government out of the picture unless they raise taxes…………oh wait, maybe I spoke too soon. We’ll find out Thursday.). So presently there either isn’t a demand, or there aren’t many who can afford to pay. Either way, attacking small, or any size business, isn’t going to help the situation in the least. BTW, all those laborers out there are ultimately being paid by those nasty ‘Rich’ people that everyone’s suppose to hate these days.
Oh yeah, have a nice first day back to school ; )
@Second Alamo
Your man Romney has about 160 pages on the subject of “job creation”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/09/06/National-Politics/Graphics/BelieveInAmerica%E2%80%93MittRomney%E2%80%93PlanForJobsAndEconomicGrowth.pdf?hpid=z1
When Conservatives Loved Keynes
Jonathan Chait
Here’s a great exchange at a 2001 hearing in Congress between Paul Ryan, AEI economist Kevin Hassett, and Bob Greenstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
Dr. HASSETT. I would just like to add, Mr. Ryan, that the economists who studied this were quite surprised to find that fiscal policy in recessions was reasonably effective. It is just that folks tried a first punch that was too light and that generally we didn’t get big measures until well into the recession. So the reason that in the past fiscal policy hasn’t pushed us out of recession is that we delayed.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/91384/when-conservatives-loved-keynes
Not so long ago, repugs like Paul Ryan believed in stimulus spending. But that was before the black guy became president. Now the repugs oppose stimulus spending.
http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/2011/09/fast-food-with-food-stamps-come-on/
Agree with Casey on this issue.
@Big Dog, to a point, so do I. Then I can recall when corned beef was off limits because it was classified as ‘imported meat.’ I can also remember when ketchup was counted as a vegetable.
I think I would go so far as to say SNAP cards shouldn’t be used at 7-11. But then I stop and ask myself if someone should be able to buy delmonico steak with food stamps. There are worse things for you than KFC, especially if you get the KBC (broiled).
I guess I don’t know how it all really works.
Censored,
Sarah Palin isn’t even running for President, last time I checked. I enjoy watching the left burning cycles trying to destroy a non-candidate. Rough and tumble nominations contests are nothing new. I seem to recall some pretty nasty exchanges between the Obama and Clinton campaigns. The contest has pretty much come down to Romney and Perry, and to have it come down to two clearly viable candidates 14 months out, is right on schedule. Again, nothing new. Now you can try to characterize Perry and Romney as “fringe”, but that ain’t going to wash when you compare/contrast either of them with the President. A media hostile to the GOP? Again, nothing new. The GOP has won many elections inspite of the liberal media attacks. What is different today is there are so many more outlets from which voters can get their news. The MSM doesn’t have a monopoly anymore.
But I ask you, what can Obama and the Democrats run on? Their record? Zero job creation? Credit downgrade? Peace and stability in the world? Growth in the economy? A drop in the “misery index”? What? If you think that Obama can get re-elected with 9% unemployement, or approval ratings as low as what he has currently, I think you need to read your history. Healthcare? With every court decision the chances of this law surviving constitutional challenge diminsh. The Democrat party is fracturing between the Back Obama/Dump Obama crowd. As long as the trend continues, Obama will be lucky not to draw a primary challenge, and even luckier to survive one, especially if it’s Hillary Clinton who does the challenging.
But that’s OK. I hope the Democrats continue their campaign strategy. The strategy developed by Saul Alinsky: Demonize, scapegoat, deflect blame, take no responsibility. Yep, that’s a winner there….. I’ll take a conservative governor with a record of success he can point to, over a sitting President who showed up with no experience and has failed to deliver anything tangible, even when his party had a monopoly on power for 2 years, any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
@Starryflights
“Not so long ago, repugs like Paul Ryan believed in stimulus spending. But that was before the black guy became president. Now the repugs oppose stimulus spending.”
I was trying use the quote function, but I kept getting an error that read “404: Intellectual Honesty in this statement not found”, so I had to copy and paste instead. You’ve managed to use mock the name of the party, call them racists, and rewrite history. There is a big difference between raising spending levels in short-term contracts to the private sector for actual goods and services, and growing government by establishing long-term programs and throwing money away on “jobs programs” that amount to nothing more than payoffs to organized labor. A great example of this is Seattle Weatherization program: City gets $20M in stimulis, creates 14 jobs (most administrative) and less than 10 homes actually get “winterized”. Easy math here: $1.42M per job created. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/127844048.html
@Steve
Maybe some of the money ought to go to a ‘trust but verify plan.’ Those receiving public money should always have to have accountability.
Do I need to do something with the error message? [translation: call our host]
@big dog
How do you like the uphill roller coaster ride today?
I could do with more today and less yesterday.
Moon,
That was a little IT humor, mixed with some sarcasm. Nothing to worry about.
@Steve, ok let me know if something goes haywire. I had a 505 error message at 5 am. grrrrrrrr. The whole blog shut down. grrrrrrrr
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/story/2011-09-05/More-restaurants-are-targeting-customers-who-use-food-stamps/50267864/1
The SNAP issue can really get ugly.
THe overall idea with SNAP is getting hungry people to eat. So, to what extent should the government care/monitor how those people choose to eat?
Also, lets say you have an unintended consequence like.. I’m only allowed to buy food that I have to prepare. But, if I’m homeless and on SNAP how can I prepare food? I’m authorized to buy eggs, flour and water. But, if I have no heating source how can I make bread? Why couldn’t I buy that $1 loaf of pre-made bread. If we’ve crossed that bridge then when does it stop? Why can’t I have a prepared meal at Wegman’s? Why not a pizza? What if Chez Marin wanted to accept SNAP for a partial payment of a Filet Mignot?
When charity groups provide food through a food bank there is some control over what kind of food is provided. With a preloaded credit card – not so much.
Again, is it about giving hungry people food or about controlling what those hungry people can eat? Because when it’s both it gets ugly.
…and that’s why the government sucks at solving social problems.
For the URL provided the bottom part is pretty good.
“If the pie’s only so big, nobody’s going to want to see the pie sliced thinner,” said Convenience Stores spokesman Jeff Lenard. “I’m not sure that’s in the best interest of public health.”
Kelly Brownell, director of Yale’s Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity, says encouraging more fast-food consumption is not good for people’s health. “It’s preposterous that a company like Yum! Brands would even be considered for inclusion in a program meant for supplemental nutrition.”
“They think going hungry is better?” counters Edward Cooney of the Congressional Hunger Center. “I’m solidly behind what Yum! is doing.”
@Steve, nice use of 404. I give that a 200.
I really do dislike those forms. It puts me in a grouchy mood every first day of school. I miss my kids being gone all day and I cannot wait to hear all about their school day as soon as they get home. Instead they reach into their backpacks and thrust at me 50 forms which all have to be read and signed by the next day. At least the emergency cards were pre filled out.
That being said, first day was a great success. Lots of old friends and new friends, and teachers that they like.
marin – they can buy bread – They can buy bread, bologna and mayo and make their own sandwich. What they cannot do is buy a prepared meal (sandwich).
And, I do not think a restaurant should qualify for SNAP – going out a restaurant is not a need – if these people really need the help, then they should get it, they should not get help to go to KFC.
Pat, yes they can.
As you can see from both articles…they can. Casey argues that they should not. But, today they can.
To the extent they can is what’s being argued right now.
On that USA Today link we see this:
“Federal rules generally prohibit food stamp benefits, which are distributed under the USDA’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), from being exchanged for prepared foods. Yet a provision dating to the 1970s allows states to allow restaurants to serve disabled, elderly and homeless people, USDA spokeswoman Jean Daniel said. [my emphesis]”
In the Casey article the guy shows a DRIVE THRU sign with the Colonel on a bucket and lettering saying “WE NOW ACCEPT FOOD STAMPS”. I doubt people are buying unprepared foods via the KFC drive thru window.
Many years ago, when Mrs T and I were newly-wed, neither of us were bringing home what you’d call “stupid money”. Both of us were just getting established in our careers. Money was tight, and we were on a budget. One day we were at the local Shoppers. We had a week to go till either of us got paid, and only enough money in the budget to get enough groceries to fill up a hand-basket. Lot’s of oatmeal and Ramen in there, and some dog food for our dog, since he didn’t like Ramen, or oatmeal. We were behind a family of 5. Mom was morbidly obese, and Dad was so thin that the pack of smokes in his t-shirt pocket looked huge. The kids were all overweight. They had 2 carts slammed full of groceries, much of it junk-food. The cashier checked them out, and gave them their total. They whipped out a stack of food-stamps (no debit cards back then). The cashier said, “I’m sorry, you can’t pay for pet-food with foodstamps”. Instead of saying sorry, both of the parents became angry and belligerent, using foul language, and cursing at the cashier. The father stomped off (leaving the 50lb. bag of dog food at the register) and came back with a stack of steaks. He threw them up on the belt and loudly proclaimed, “Fine. I can by steaks with foodstamps. My dog will eat steak.”
It’s right about that time I exploded and in my best former-DI voice berrated the man for his lack of humility, considering we were helping to feed him and his children with our taxes, and they eat better than we do.
Therefore, I have little sympathy for those who want to expand foodstamp use into restaurants, whether dine in, or take-out. If those who do not take public assistance can’t afford to eat out, those who do shouldn’t be able to either.
@Steve Thomas
See it all the time. You watch someone pay for groceries using a SNAP card and then get into a large newish SUV.
Government is the problem here. Not the solution.
@Censored bybvbl
Censored,
Here’s another illustration of the efficacy of the Obama presidency:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/07/us-drops-to-5th-place-in-global-competitiveness/
I again ask the question: What will he run on?
So what’s the answer?
How much verification is there for people who use food stamps? Once they start is there any end time before renewal?
Before I go out on a limb, I want to know how this works. How does a preson qualify and how to they stay qualified.
My view is get the government out of social programs and allow church and charity groups to do it.
Here’s a link to the Virginia food stamps (SNAP) program.
http://www.dss.virginia.gov/benefit/foodstamp.cgi
@paperless mom
That is great that everyone had a good day. There needs to be a better way for sure about the forms. Lockers are held hostage until those forms are filled out. Not a great way to set the tone for the first day.
Often parents are too busy completing forms to even have the time to listen about that most important day.
My pet peeve of all time school pet peeves is the habit one local school has regarding school supplies. They have a long extensive list that even includes red pens for the teacher and dry erase markers. The student list has maybe 20-30 items on the list.
The parents are supposed to bring these supplies in to school ahead of time to be collectively shared. I found out what was happening several years ago and told my daughter NOT to participate. There are school funds for teacher supplies and she shouldn’t be having to pay for some other kid to have crayons. She was buying $40 worth of supplies only to lose possession of them before school started.
I have only heard of one school doing this. I am happy to report that my grandchildren will never darken its door again.
That little supply problem was not its only problem.
@marinm
I have no problem with churches providing food to people. That is one of the things that they do best. However, don’t you think you are excessively dumping a huge burden of responsibility on the church? Many churches barely make ends meet. Their ministers scrape out a living.
Your plan is not very realistic. I expect if you fell on hard times, you might view it differently.
M-H — Thankfully it was a good day in the market and I especially rejoice
in them as they have become as rare recently as Nat’s wins.
If the upswing was was based on what President Obama might say
in his address this week, I fear that might not get very far. The Republicans,
for political reasons, simply aren’t going to agree to anything. Their take seems
if it helps push up the economy and drive down unemployment
it helps Obama – and the country be damned – the GOPers aren’t going
willing to risk that. They are Ahabs and he is their Moby Dick.
@Big Dog, I fear you are right. I would have less fear if the candidates were not at the far right end of the political spectrum. I can’t even relate to most of what they say. It is alien. And I am a child of southern Democrats so if the talk seems alien to ME, imagine what it must sound like to others.
@Steve Thomas
I know you Repubs don’t give a damn what happens to the country as long as you can beat President Obama. You overlook the crapola that he inherited from your party. You continuously harp on the negative with no regard to what that language does for our country. You wish for failure. We non-party affiliated see that you’re a partisan. Rah. Rah.
As for the poor not being thankful enough to suit your need for them to grovel, why not be thankful that you’re not in their place – that you and your wife are educated enough, drug-free, have jobs that offer advancement, have a house (I assume), and can pay your bills – that you thought long-term and were willing to sacrifice when you were starting out because you assumed those sacrifices would pay off in the long run.
I’ve often heard people complain that the poor are ungrateful, drive big cars, have too many children, dare to own a pet, bitch about what they receive for free. Think about it. Would you swap places? If not, be thankful for what you have.
This is what happened to the bears today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRvBqwHJo8Q
Dear God, I hope that child was checked for a concussion.
On the other hand, I am very glad that the bears were kept at bay. It was a good day.
Why is an air force one sitting in the presidential library auditorium?
That plane is huge. Was it retired and why?