UPDATE: PWCS SCHOOLS ARE CLOSED FRIDAY BECAUSE OF FLOODING.
One of the greatest joys in life each Tuesday after Labor Day is lying in bed, listening to the buses rolling and knowing that it doesn’t involve me!
Kids, get ready to ride the cheese. Brush your teeth, put on those new clothes, and get ready to face a brand new school year. This day can make or break you. Its those 15 second first impressions that can last a year, a life-time.
Parents, prepare for Tuesday night. You will be hating life with all those bazillion forms to fill out.
Reminder that you can pay for school lunches online in Prince William County. You can also restrict them so your kid isn’t buying junk food or ice cream for her entire class. Go to www.mylunchmoney.com.
MH, from Wiki
Several presidential aircraft that have formerly served as Air Force One (Sacred Cow, Independence, Columbine III, SAM 26000, and other smaller presidential aircraft) are on display in the presidential hangar of the National Museum of the United States Air Force (located at Wright-Patterson AFB near Dayton, Ohio) and at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, Washington (earlier VC-137B SAM 970). The Boeing 707 that served as Air Force One from the Nixon years through the George H. W. Bush administration (SAM 27000) is on display in Simi Valley, California at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. The library’s Air Force One Pavilion was opened to the public on 24 October 2005.
A VC-118A Liftmaster used by John F. Kennedy is on display at the Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson, Arizona.
I was playing with the kids at the in-laws so I have to catch up on the debate. I heard there was a few fireworks. 🙂
That thing is huge! Thanks for the info Marinm. Talk about feeling like there is an 800 lb gorilla in the room. Geez.
After tonight’s Repug debate, I like Obama’s chances more than I did than before. Perry’s a loon, calling social security a ponzi scheme. SS has been around since Roosevelt and has proven effective for 80 years or so. Extremist views like that aren’t going to win votes.
Romney’s probably the best chance the Repugs have for beating Obama. I’m not sure that his winning the election would be such as bad thing. At least he understands the need for health care reform.
The 9/11 Tapes: The Story in the Air
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/09/08/nyregion/911-tapes.html
After we have seen so many montages of video dealing with 9/11, it becomes obvious, after hearing these tapes, that all that glittered was not gold. There were some serious flaws in the air traffic system. This is only a partial listen. I think it speaks volumes.
Obama was given a very bad hand of cards on the day he took office. How long does it take to right the ship, and get it back on course.
Things were not all rosy under GW Bush, as some would pretend. The mismanagement is what brought us to where we are – the regulators were not watching what was going on on wall street. They allowed the mortgage crisis to build, and did nothing – I knew (and we all knew) that the mortgages being issued were faulty – yet it kept going. It was helping to meet Bush’s goal of having more minorities and those with bad credit own their home – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkAtUq0OJ68 .
The Bush tax cuts were his stimulus spending plan – and were temporary because they were not deficit neutral. We borrowed money from the Chinese to pay for the tax rebate (and spent a ton of money to mail out checks) – where was the Tea Party then? (hint, voting for the spending.)
All excellent points, Pat.
We fought 2 wars on credit, did nothing about the housing situation even though we all knew that dishwashers couldn’t move in to $500k houses. We added a huge senior program, unfunded, and put a huge burden on state and local govt. with NCLB. Then there were those tax cuts.
How could the outcome be different? I actually think that Obama has done a pretty decent job keeping us just from sinking under the weight of it all.
“Those Republicans who say we should talk on constructive issues don’t
understand their politics. You beat men in office, you don’t elect men.
People vote their dislikes. It may not be sportsmanlike to work on that
basis, but it isn’t the time to sit back and be nice.”
John Hamilton
Republican National Chairman, 1936
Didn’t work in 1936 — in 2012?
@Censored bybvbl
Censored,
That’s a lot to unpack. Let’s take this line by line:
“I know you Repubs don’t give a damn what happens to the country as long as you can beat President Obama.”
We “Repubs” do care about what happens to the country, which is precisely why we want to defeat Obama. We don’t think the country can survive another 4 years of decline, measurable by every generally accepted metric available.
“As for the poor not being thankful enough to suit your need for them to grovel, why not be thankful that you’re not in their place …yada…yada…yada”
I am assuming you are referring to the experience I related, regarding the family at the grocery store. First of, there’s a HUGE difference between “humility” and “groveling”. I would expect someone who is relying on the taxpayers to feed their family to be humble. No one should ever have to grovel to be fed. Furthermore, you take great liberties assuming to know my or my wife’s motiviations, but I will indulge you, to demonstrate the pointlessness of your statement: Do not give me that “social justice” garbage. It will not wash. I grew up in a home, raised by a single-mother who lacked a college education. I’ve worked since I was 9 years old, and held a full-time job since the age of 15. I entered the USMC at the age of 18, worked hard, got promoted, and EARNED the opportunity to compete for a slot in a college/commissioning program. The government didn’t pay for my degree, I did. What I owed the government upon commissioning was 4 years of service. Since leaving the service, I and my wife have continued to do the right things, and make the right decisions. I don’t even have to consider “swapping” places with a poor family. I will personally do what it takes, through exercise of intellect, blood, and sweat to ensure we are not in a position to have to rely on the government for food, shelter, healthcare, etc. Our society and laws ensure equal opportunity. The results are up to the individual. If someone can’t afford to feed their kids, they can’t afford to feed their dog. And when their dog is eating better than I or my wife, and they are on public assistance, I have a reason to expect at least some humility when they are told they cannot use taxpayer money to feed their pet.
Another thing; I am sick and tired of many comments here pushing the oft-disproved assertion that conservatives lack compassion, and Republicans only care about the rich. I tithe to my Church, and much of this money goes directly to the poor, right here in my City. It is being spent in Georgetown South. It is being spent in the Compassion Ministry which provides tons of food directly to the poor. It helps poor people with car repairs or paying their utilities. I work in the Stewardship ministry, which provides budget coaching and basic financial management instruction to anyone in need, and at low or no cost. I raise money for cancer and diabetes research, and ride miles and miles in exchange for this generosity. Studies have shown that as a group, conservatives and Republicans donate more money to charity, volunteer more of their time to the community than any other self-indentifying group. And if your assertions are correct regarding Republicans only caring about business, then you will have to conceed my next point: We create the private sector jobs that pay the taxes that fund all the social programs liberals want to cast about to buy the votes of “poor & disadvantaged who have been screwed over by the evil Republicans”.
Yes, I believe that conservatism is the best course for this country. My education and background in history and political science strengthens this belief. I don’t have to “wish” for failure from this President. He has failed. He was the wrong man for the job. Nothing to do with race. Everything to do with ability, experience, and most of all, IDEOLOGY. The conservative way enables the individual to succeed or fail based on their willingness to succeed. Your way perpetuates mediocrity, creates dependency, and enslaves whole classes of people…and to add insult to injury, liberals lie and tell the enslaved that the Republicans are to blame for their lot in life.
I am thankful for the opportunities I have had. I am thankful that I had the will to follow through on them. I am thankful to HIM who provided them.
But let’s be honest, censored. You don’t want to answer my original question, which is why you went “Saul Alinsky” on me, implying that I am just an evil, heartless Republican who wants poor people to beg for the government handouts they recieve. I’ve been respectful enough to answer your thinly veiled ad hominem, now please reciprocate by answering my original question: What will Obama run on besides “It’s Bush’s fault. It’s the GOP’s fault. It’s the TEA Party’s fault. It’s BP’s fault. It’s the Japanese eathquakes fault. It’s the Arab Spring’s fault. It’s Wall Street’s fault. It’s Whitey’s fault…It’s (insert anybody but Obama here)’s fault?” What will he offer the country as a reason to give him four more years? What success can he point to? Why should the American people re-elect Barrack Hussein Obama?
Maybe Obama can run on this:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/08/tax-buried-in-obama-health-care-plan-will-kill-43000-jobs-warns-economic-report-from-medical-equipment-lobby/
Then again, maybe not.
@Steve Thomas
Why stop with Saul Alinsky and not mention Karl Rove or Lee Atwater? I’m an Independent so I don’t care if you want to throw out the name of a Democratic operative. The Repubs aren’t innocent in that department. For many of us who are not party people, we say a curse on both your houses and the trash you (general “you”) bring to political discussions.
Most people that I know, including moderate Republicans, can be honest about the mess that Obama inherited from Bush. Two unfunded wars and a banking/housing fiasco didn’t exactly give Obama a clean slate with which to start. And before some Repub mentions Barney Frank, think about what Bush did or didn’t do when he had a majority.
My sister spent a career in Child Protective Services. There are an awful lot of kiddos out there who grow up in horrendous situations. Just as you and I might have had middle class or higher goals when we went to school and saw where an education could lead, there are children who probably consider themselves lucky if they’re given a meal or not beaten or that their parents aren’t drunk or entertaining some boyfriend when they come home. It takes a pretty strong child to break that pattern. It also takes money to hire tutors or offer after-school programs to break that cycle.
People who steal from society have always been with us and always will be. It won’t matter whether the Prez is a Repub or Dem. I think you have to hope that you can change life for the better for their children. Some people will never be “grateful” because they’re angry that they are in such crappy circumstances to begin with and they know what you think of them.
Some of the things Repubs think are horrible – such as health care reform – are actually things that Dems or many Independents like and perhaps think didn’t go far enough. My mother, an Independent who votes both sides of the fence, is disgusted with the attacks on the Prez. Her only vote for a Repub this year was for the Fairfax BOS candidate that lives in her neighborhood. I doubt that she or two of my sisters and their spouses will vote for a Repub any time soon – don’t like the negativity. My sister who is a Republican seldom votes. They will all, except the non-voter, vote for Obama. They don’t see his policies as evil.
Tell me why any of them should vote for the current crop of Repubs. Huntsman and Romney are the only ones who sound sane. They’re going to have to run a centrist campaign if they expect to win.
@Censored bybvbl
Censored,
Since you refuse to answer my question, I can only assume that you have no interest in a respectful debate. It’s easy to claim to be a “thus and such” non-partisan independent, but you forget I have been reading your comments since the inception of this blog. Where I still posting from behind a cloak of anonymous screenname, I too could claim to be a non-partisan independent as well.
Once you have answered my question, I’d be happy to continue this debate over the strengths and shortcomings of the slate of GOP contenders, but saying “I and every person I know will vote for Obama because he’s not a Republican” doesn’t answer my question. Nor does it support your specious claim of being a “non-partisan independent”.
So please, give me a reason why President Obama deserves a second term. Name one policy or program he has implemented that has had a positive impact on the country’s biggest challenges. If you can’t do this, and instead choose to deflect, blame others, or try to indict the person asking you the question. If you are unwilling to do this, then I see no point in continuing the debate.
Steve,
what makes you think that the R’s are going to do any better? For example – Cantor does not want FEMA to get funds, unless there are cuts under President Obama, but under President Bush – he was for all the spending. Out economy has not been in great shape since 2001, but was propped up all this time, and now, Obama gets blamed for it all – not that he does not deserve some of the credit, but there is alot of credit to go around.
Where do you think we would be if McCain had gotten elected?
They are all taking us for a ride – and there will be two classes remaining – the wealthy and the poor. The middle class is being decimated with stagnant salaries, increased costs, less jobs.
@Steve Thomas
I don’t have your hatred for Obama. I think he’s done alright considering the mess he inherited. I don’t see his health care proposals as being as dire as you do. I don’t see his moderation and appeals for compromise as bad. Your problems with him are just that – your problems. I’d vote for him over any candidate your party has at this point. I’m a liberal when it comes to social issues. I suppose I’m stingy enough with my personal finances that I could be viewed as more conservative in that area.
I like Obama’s willingness to change on issues – to push more for gay rights, to end “don’t ask, don’t tell”. I like the fact that he’s not pushing to destroy social security or the retirement systems that so many people have worked for decades to enjoy. I like the fact that so many young people and minorities like him. I like the fact that my grand-niece can see that a bi-racial person stands a chance to be Prez. I like the fact that he can take Republican positions, which may anger part of his base, compromise on them, and then have the Repubs look like fools as they denounce what they themselves proposed earlier. It shows which party is mean-spirited, uncompromising, and out of the mainstream. Simply, I like the fact that he appears as a sane, non-hateful human being, a person that doesn’t have a long list of groups to hate.
When you think a president can solve the problems Obama inherited in one year or two, come back with those solutions and then we’ll talk. If you’re unwilling to do this, then I see no point in continuing the debate.
@Censored,
Perhaps Steve doesn’t personally hate Obama but enough people do hate him and are vocal about it to make me think that most R’s do hate him.
I know people who use the N word about him and say they want to shoot him. These are people I know personally!!!! They won’t say it to me but they have said it to mutual friends. You hear enough of that crap and it becomes easy to make sweeping generalizations.
And to Steve, I am glad you came to this blog. I also know it wasn’t the easiest thing to reach out, which you did.
@Pat.Herve
Pat,
I agree with you on the point of “who gets the blame” that the GOP Congress under GW Bush, and GW Bush himself share a good deal of the blame. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again: The Bush Tax cuts were neccesary at the time they were passed, to keep the economy from slipping into recession immediately after 9/11. However, to pass the tax cuts, AND a huge entitlement program (Perscription Drug Benefit) AND fight 2 wars (One mandatory, one elective) without paying for it was fiscally irresponsible. Bush added about 2 trillion to the debt, and handed Obama a note for about 9 trillion, an economy slipping into recession (mostly due to his hands-off approach on the brokeages dealing in credit default swaps and derriviatives) and a 6.5% -7% unemployment rate. The GOP paid mightily for this in the 2006 and 2008 election cycles, and rightly so. But now they are criticized for being fiscal hawks. I don’t know where we’d be if McCain were elected, and wouldn’t hazard a guess as to what his approach would have been, beyond saying he wouldn’t have rammed that abomination of a healthcare bill down our throats. I’m sure it would have been a market-based approach.
But that’s all a sand-table exercise now isn’t it? When Obama was handed a mess, he had overwhelming popular support, and his party controlled both houses of congress. They couldn’t/wouldn’t even pass a budget. Nope. Instead they bought GM and Chrysler and violated US Bankruptcty law, and gave the companies to the AAWU. The passed the “stimulis” which was nothing more than a way to funnel money to ACORN, Organized labor, and dubious “green jobs” companies (his showcase company is now under federal investigation). Results should matter, and here is the tale of the tape: Unemployment above 9% and holding. ZERO job growth in the month of August, interest rates pushed to near zero to keep up at least the appearence of capital exchange happening. He extended the Bush tax cuts (which so many here feel were wrong in the first place) and gave us a “payroll tax holiday” which exacerbates the Social Security Shortfall. Meanwhile we have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, and have fallen to #5 on the most competative economy list. Many of our states are going broke (mostly Blue states), and if that isn’t enough, he gets us involved in a civil war in North Africa.
The whole “blame someone else” song is getting a bit old. Perhaps someone else can tell me why Obama deserves a 2nd term. I’m not saying the people were wrong for electing him in 2008. He said the things folks wanted to hear. He sounded like he knew what he was talking about. He had charisma. His complete lack of executive experience aside, they compared him to McCain (who also lacked executive experience) and made their choice. Done and Done. But now we know who Obama is. We’ve seen the results (or lack there of) of his policies. Considering the state of the nation today, why-o-why does Obama deserve a 2nd term in office? As candidates go, either Perry or Romney at least have executive experience, a record of some tangible success that can be examined, pointed to, etc. Obama has none, even after almost 3 years in office. Zip. Zero. Nada.
And to add to my commentary regarding McCain, I’ll up the ante: I think Hillary Clinton would have done a better job as President. At least she’d have had Bill to bounce things off of, and despite all of his character flaws, Bill was at least effective, especially during his 2nd term. And Bill had results to point to when he asked the American people to keep him in the whitehouse. The Obama administration has been feckless.
@Censored bybvbl
“I don’t have your hatred for Obama.”
I don’t hate Obama. I disagree with his policies. I haven’t attacked his character. I haven’t called him “stupid” or worse. Stop characterizing it as “hatred”. Can you say the same regarding Sarah Palin?
When I decided to give up my screen name, and come on this blog, posting under my real name, it was/is with the full realization that I can be held to account for everything I write.
As to the rest of your explanation as to why you would vote for Obama, I’ll accept that as your answer. However, I will add that if “gays in the military” and the fact that he is bi-racial are not rational reasons for America to re-elect him.
“When you think a president can solve the problems Obama inherited in one year or two, come back with those solutions and then we’ll talk. If you’re unwilling to do this, then I see no point in continuing the debate.”
Easy. Read your history. Ronald Wilson Reagan inherited an economy from Carter, marginally worse than that which Obama inherited from Bush. At the same point in the Reagan Presidency, he had the economy growing again. DWRD=Do What Reagan Did. Cut capital gains. Lower the corporate tax rate. Cut spending in ineffective social programs…ie. create an atmosphere where the private sector feels it’s less risky to invest and hire. No? Don’t like Reagan ’cause he was a Republican? Do what JFK did…which is exactly what Reagan did.
@Steve, Ronald Reagan also realized he had to tweak the tax code system and he raised taxes. Some of today’s current debt is from the Reagan years. He also didn’t go into office during a full recession. And lest you accuse me of bias, I need to remind you that I voted for Reagan. (you didn’t, I was just reminding you.
I think the main reason for voting for a president is whether or not they sorta kinda satisfy your belief system. I also throw in Supreme Court appointments. Obama hasn’t seriously violated my belief system. I actually applaud him for some of his actions. Some, not all.
At least I don’t lie awake at night worrying that Sarah Palin might somehow get into the White House.
If I look at Rick Perry or Obama there is no contest. If I look at Romney or Obama, we get a little closer to a challenge. However, the R’s are still in appealing to the base mode so I don’t consider it real until everyone is on an equal footing.
Looks like a tough race for the President. He loses to a “generic Republican” and to both Perry and Romney:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot
@Steve
I learned a long time ago not to put too much stock in Rasmussen stats. He is biased and frames his questions to reflect that bias.
I can’t even think of someone like Rick Perry as president. His grammar is bad and he doesn’t believe in major science theories. His history is flawed. That leaves his math skills. How are they? He would be the true indicator of just how much in decline America really is.
I doubt he will pull in many votes from the over 55 crowd. Anyone over 55 who is impressed with him sure knows how to shoot themself in the foot.
@Steve Thomas
However, I will add that if “gays in the military” and the fact that he is bi-racial are not rational reasons for America to re-elect him.
Maybe they aren’t valid reasons to a straight white guy, but, then again, straight white guys are finding themselves in the minority. That’s a problem for the Republican party. It’s become too much of an old white Southern boys club. Encourage that thinking at your peril.
@Censored
I am so disillusioned after listening to the 9/11 raw audio tapes. The apathy and stupidity was appalling. We have been told that the FAA et al were heroes. I’ll be damned if I heard many. The ones who really held things together and their competence stood out weren’t men. I am certain that there were competent men involved, and I don’t mean to be sexist. I was horrified to hear how really weak some of the first people involved were.
It is really worth the listen. New York Times front page.
Steve,
You are normally one of the more enjoyable posters here –
Do you realize the domino effect if GM was allowed to go under – it would have also brought down Ford, and many of the parts suppliers to the auto industry. And that bailout was under Bush.
What part of HCR reform is not a market solution – it is a boon for the private insurance industry. And, it follows very much what McCain campaigned on, and what was proposed by previous Republican politicians (even the Heritage Foundation at one point).
The economy was in recession in 2007, hardly slipping into one when Obama took office – and you say that Reagan had an economy that was marginally worse than when Obama took office – you need a reality check on that one. With the banking system imploding, housing crisis, lending crisis, and a sluggish economy – the only thing close to the economy was the Depression era.
The highest corporate tax rate in the world (it is not) only means something if corporations actually pay taxes. And Obama has not raised those tax rates.
Cut taxes and capital gains – seriously, capital gains taxes at 15% do not need to be reduced.
The Bush spending spree continues on – http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/obamas-and-bushs-effect-on-the-deficit-in-one-graph/2011/07/25/gIQAELOrYI_blog.html – and he added many recurring costs – Part D, Wars, etc. The Obama spending has mostly been mandated by automatic stabilizers.
Many of the Red states are also in need of fiscal help – Virginia included – as our Governor has balanced the budget by not paying into the pension system – that will come back and bite us.
We have needed healthcare reform (growing faster than GDP, and getting more expensive), tax reform, immigration reform, ss reform, medicare/medicaid reform, DOD reform – for the past 20 years, and largely nothing has been done.
Do I want my taxes to go up – no, I do not. But raising a tax and then creating loop holes is not a solution – and that is what we have.
Is that your argument? Really? We’re all a bunch of homophobic, racist, rednecks? Good luck with that one.
Game. Set. Match.
The person I know who is being such a redneck is a white woman about my age. She also hasn’t voted in 35 years. I told her if she didn’t vote she didn’t get to have an opinion–at least not around me.
@Pat.Herve
“Do you realize the domino effect if GM was allowed to go under – it would have also brought down Ford, and many of the parts suppliers to the auto industry. And that bailout was under Bush.”
not talking about the loan. I’m talking about Obama violating US Bankruptcy Law by placing the UAW before secured creditors during both GM and Chrysler’s bankruptcy proceedings.
“What part of HCR reform is not a market solution?”
The individual mandate part. You cannot force someone to purchase a good or service, and call that market based. You cannot abuse the commerce clause and call it a market based solution. You cannot levy taxes on it for its administration and subsidizing others and call it a market-based solution.
“had an economy that was marginally worse than when Obama took office – you need a reality check on that one.”
No I don’t. I need a history book, which I have lot’s of. I also have a history degree, so I know how to research and seperate fact from opinion:
Inflation averaged 12.5 percent when Reagan entered office, was reduced to 4.4 percent when he left.
Interest rates fell six points.
When Reagan took office in 1981, the unemployment rate was 7.6 percent.
In the recession of 1981-82 (his first YEAR in office), that rate peaked at 9.7 percent, but it fell continuously for the next seven years. When Reagan left office, the unemployment rate was 5.5 percent.
Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years.
The average annual growth rate of real gross domestic product (GDP) from 1981 to 1989 was 3.2 percent per year, compared with 2.8 percent from 1974 to 1981.
Reagan cut capital gains by 15% and REAL revenues to the Federal government increased by 90%
The primary reason the deficit grew during the Reagan years was the Cold War military buildup, not domestic spending which exploded during the Johnson and Carter Admins, with a little help from Nixon. All periods when the Democrats controlled congress.
High corporate tax rates prevent foregin investment, and drive US companies overseas.
Reform is needed. On this we all seem to agree. It is the method by which the reform happens is what we disagree on.
“You are normally one of the more enjoyable posters here –”
Please expand on this. I’d hate to take this out of context.
I didn’t accuse Obama of raising taxes. That would be factually incorrect. What I am critical of is his unwillingness to cut taxes, AND spending, two things JFK and Reagan did to stimulate the economy. Obama has outright refused to do this.
@Steve Thomas
Is that your argument? Really? We’re all a bunch of homophobic, racist, rednecks? Good luck with that one.
Game. Set. Match.
Reading comp problem? Do you automatically equate one with the other?
Steve,
“You are normally one of the more enjoyable posters here –” – please do not take that out of context – you are one of the more informed posters – and I usually enjoy your posts.
Obama has cut taxes – he did relent and allow the Bush tax cuts to remain in place, after the R’s gave in on the SS tax cut (temporary for one year) – how low should taxes go. Many companies do not pay taxes – yet, they are raking in the dough.
We will have to disagree – I think the economy that Obama got on his first day in office was in much worse condition than when Reagan took over – and many economists agree.
HCR – the reason for the mandate is two fold – so that pre-existing conditions are covered, and providers are already mandated to give care, even when payment is not expected – having the mandate puts self responsibility back to the individual.
American Jobs Act
It sounds like President Obama hit a homerun out of the ball park tonight.
@ Moon,
Saw that several of your posts appeared at once on my screen. Not ignoring any. Will respond when I have a real keyboard, and not on my blackberry. I need to take a closer look at the text of the speech before giving my opinion regarding the Obama jobs plan.
@Pat,
Thankyou. I do try to have my facts to support my positions. The main reason why I think the economy Reagan inherited was worse is because of the high inflation and super high interest rates. Tough to get an economy moving facing those two things. This current crisis has been relatively free of inflation and interest rates hovering at 4%. To be fair, Reagan wasn’t saddled with 9 trillion in debt as was Obama, but he didn’t add to the debt at the rate this admin has either.
Cooch loses in his attack on the Obama health care reform law 3-0 at the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. The unanimous decision said the state lacks standing to bring the suit.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/appeals-court-dismisses-virginias-health-law-challenge/2011/09/08/gIQAB81xCK_story.html
Mo, you forgot to point out that the Court never looked at the merits only the standing issue.
“Still, Dorf said the panel’s decisions were of limited use to the administration because neither addresses the merits of the constitutional challenge head-on.”
I’m not worried. Full speed ahead for our General!!
@marin, pardon me while I run my finger down my throat.
Tell you what, marin, you can have your general. Please take him elsewhere. I am tired of all the bad jokes from my out of state friends.
He’s ‘our’ General. Much like the President is our President. Not the guy I picked but he’s our guy.
“Do you realize the domino effect if GM was allowed to go under – it would have also brought down Ford, and many of the parts suppliers to the auto industry. And that bailout was under Bush”
Anybody remember the “Great Bailout of 1979?”
That was Chrysler under then President Jimmy Carter. Public Law 86-165 Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of $1.5billion plus around another $2billion in committments and concessions by Chrysler. Even the UAW played well in this case. Took four years to pay back the loans, and Chrysler did it with the Fed getting around $350million out of the deal.
The minivan was considered the “saviour” for Chrysler, plus being handed the contract for the M-1 Abrams instead of GM (which had the better of the two test model XM-1s).
Speaking of unions.. I was thinking about changing my gravatar back to the SIEU thug beating on someone in honor of
http://news.yahoo.com/longshoremen-storm-wash-state-port-damage-rr-144921214.html
Hundreds of Longshoremen stormed the Port of Longview early Thursday, overpowered and held security guards, damaged railroad cars, and dumped grain that is the center of a labor dispute, said Longview Police Chief Jim Duscha.
One sergeant was threatened with baseball bats and retreated, Duscha said. “One officer with hundreds of Longshoremen? He used the better part of discretion.”
Go unions! Show us how we’re winning the future.
@marin, you are broad brushing unions as though everyone in a union is a thug. I can criticize what these longshoremen did without vilifying all unions and all union members.
From NYTimes:
@marinm
Sounds like something from 1911, not 2011. Hope it’s not the start of a trend. Not to excuse violence, but when people’s livelihoods are threatened, they will do anything.
If you like having your saturdays and sundays off, thank unions.
@If you like not seeing little children working instead of being in school, thank unions also.
A lot of things we take for granted like paid vacations, 8-hour workdays and overtime compensation are the results of union activism.
Unfortunately excessively high labor wages forced by the UAW over the years has sent Detroit into the dumper. I know there are many other compounding reasons, but labor cost in this country relative to overseas is the MAIN reason that most manufacturing has moved offshore. I’m seeing it in the small company that I work for. At worst it seems un-American, but then lower costs equal higher profits, which equals higher pay and/or more non-labor oriented jobs. Face it, most labor oriented jobs here have moved from the manufacturing sector to the services sector, which is rapidly being filled by those who will work for far less pay, and we all know where they are coming from!
Steve – at PolitiFact.com, they say that Obama inherited a worse recession than Reagan – http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/nov/17/sarah-palin/palin-claims-reagan-faced-worse-recession-obama/
and our housing situation (which drives much of the economy) is still in the crapper – new housing still off, glut of foreclosures, REO numbers still very high and housing prices have not stabilized. What I think the administration should have done there, is to allow mortgage restructuring for those with current with payments – like usual, the guy that try’s to do the right thing gets no help.
SA – what is the reason for all the non-union companies moving manufacturing offshore – what about IT jobs?
Pat,
Here’s the difference as I see it: Politifact is taking facts and making a judgement call in many instances, and you are using their determination to support your point, whereas I am taking facts, comparing them and making my comparison. Perhaps it is a distinction without a difference. Perhaps not. I said Reagan inherited a “marginally” worse economy than did Obama, and I base this on the inflation and interest rates each had to deal with at the time. Inflation hurts everybody, especially the poor and middle-class, especially if wages lag (as they always do). Interest rates hurt the average family less, unless they are trying to purchase a home, or need to rely on credit to subsidize their income, or worse, live beyond their means. Seeing the historic impacts of inflation or hyper-inflation (Weimar Germany as an example) I weight inflation very high in my analysis.
But again, my point is Reagan and JFK took a very different approach to dealing with economic crisis, regarding stimulis than has Obama. Looking at the results, I think Reagan and JFK had the better approach. Heck, even FDR was willing to abandon a large part of his “New Deal” to get the economy moving faster, in the run-up to America’s entry into the war.
@Second Alamo
When we take a look at middle class wages over the past 3-4 decades, it really makes me sick. They are flat, while corporations move their service jobs off shore and their manufacturing jobs to various spots in Asia, again at slave wages.
I am not willing to blame unions who simply don’t want to work for slave wages.
@Steve Thomas
Reagan inherited some unpleasant economics. However, Obama inherited what can almost be described as an event. Reagan inherited the high interest for sure. Obama inherited a more catastrophic situation on an immediate basis.
I recall the usual grumbling and complaining about Reagan but I never felt the vehement hatred of him. I voted for him but was never a big Reagan fan, if that makes sense. (translation: I disliked him a little less than the other guy.)
The real hates came in with Clinton, then Bush, and now Obama. Frankly, I think the objective was stated clearly right in the beginning: Make sure Obama has only one term. Mitch McConnell sort of spoke for all the R’s it seems.
That is just not a goal anyone should have. It is negative. If all we do as a nation is fight to gain control rather than to make a good nation, then we have failed as a nation.
To what extent will Mitch McConnell go to to achieve his top political priority – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc – will he sink the economy so that he wins?
What Obama inherited may have only been marginally worse on the surface, but Reagan didn’t have to deal with structural unemployment and a financial system levered to the orbit of Mars. I hate to say it because I think Obama sucks, but fair is fair. I’d go out on a limb and say that he probably inherited the worst economic situation bar none, even the Great Depression. Yes, the numbers aren’t as bad as the Depression (yet) because we managed to paper over the problem for a couple of years, but the piper must be paid.
Having said all that, I see a guy almost completely disinterested in the job of President outside of the lavish lifestyle it affords to him and his family. What’s going to happen is that he’s going to get bounced out of the White House in 2012, and you’re going to get (insert Republican here). Guess what happens in 2016? Yup, that guy is going to get bounced too, because this mess is going to take 10+ years to clean up.
You libs should do yourself a favor and run Hillary. At least she’s a serious person who appears to be interested in problem solving.
@Cato, if I were a liberal, Hillary would be the last person I would run, because she isn’t a liberal.
And you know the Democrats aren’t going to do that. That ship sailed a long time ago and I had to live with it.
And you are right, the replacement will get bounced out as will the tea party people.
@Pat.Herve
Big deal? That’s like a surgeon saying that “the top priority for this operation is to remove the tumor eating away at the patient’s brain.”
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18859550
M-H, Obvious the markets weren’t wowed by the Big O last night.
On to plan B:
It’s not about Obama
It’s about your Mama!
@Big Dog,
And the markets just get sicker. arggghhhhhhh
@Moon-howler
Moon,
Since we can’t seem to agree on which economy was worse, let’s find the common ground and say “both were tough” and focus on what really matters: How to fix it.
On this note, I am witholding my appraisal on the President’s Jobs Plan until we get the details. One thing that does concern me is the tax cuts proposed are “payroll tax-cuts”. This means we have even less money being paid into Social Security than we do now, and it’s not enough. So, if the the GOP is accused of balancing the VA State Budget by not fully funding the pension plan, how is what Obama is proposing different? This reminds me of HCR, which was/is funded in large part by cutting medicare and medicaid, to the tune of $400 Billion. To me, it looks like the Fed is just pushing the peas around on the plate, but none of the peas are getting eaten.
@Steve, I have lived through both. I don’t think there is a ‘worse.’ I vote for ‘different.’ What was unemployment back then?
I don’t see why a reduction in payroll taxes impacts social security. I assumed he meant deferring federal with holding taxes which really just bites you in the butt come April 15. I could be wrong.
It sounds ever so much nicer when you say deferred VRS payments rather than when I say it.
What he proposed is to extend the reduction in SS tax (currently a 2% reduction) – increase it to a 3.1% reduction, and also the businesses to reduce the tax to 3.1% (with a cap on payroll). While, I do not like or want them to reduce revenues to the pension systems (statewise or SS) – I do understand why Obama goes for this – it is because, it affects all workers with incomes, and already has a cap for high earners ($106K).
I think he has really backed the Republican leadership into a box – if they do not adopt the plan, Obama will campaign on – ‘They did not allow me to implement my plan’ – and if they do implement it, it might work (I have not digested all the details to make an opinion). Of course, if it does not work, he will be out for sure. It there even enough time before the 2012 election.
Housing is still the crux of the issue – if you can fix the housing industry and crisis, you can fix a large sector of the economy.
The Almighty couldn’t fix the housing crisis. Getting people out from under water might be a place to start and that would require relaxing a lot of credit restrictions that got us in to some of the mess in the first place. I see a catch-22.
I sure wasn’t listening in the SS tax dept. Not sure I understand it fully now. I don’t see why there is a cap at $106k. That makes no sense at all to me.
Thanks
Pat
@Moon-howler
When Reagan took office, unemployement was at 7.6%. It was 7.2% when Obama took office. Again, “marginally” worse statistically, but let’s just call it about 7.5% for both.
Again, lacking to full details, I am “concerned” regarding the proposed payroll tax reduction’s imact on Social Security, and I’m not alone. (grab on to something…here it comes) It would appear that several liberal democrats share these concerns:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/169077-ignoring-liberal-dems-obama-endorses-longer-payroll-tax-holiday
Regarding VRS, if something is factually true, then it’s true. I can try to spin it, or argue that it is the right decision to make, but I can’t say it’s not factually true. I may be partisan, but I at least try to be an intellectually honest ideologue 🙂
@Steve, Oh I wasn’t saying that you weren’t being truthful about VRS. Remember, none of us knew how VRS was impacted for a long time. That was one of the best kept secrets. And once everyone found out it was all deferred payments, no one seemed to care. At first it sounded like the state had taken out a loan from VRS. I just call it using the VRS like an ATM machine. Even McDonnell says that should not have happened.
PWC is one of those jurisdictions who did not pay. How will they pay back? Anyone know?
Do you honestly think that if McCain had been elected, those unemployment numbers would have done an instant reverse and headed the other direction?
@Moon-howler
“I sure wasn’t listening in the SS tax dept. Not sure I understand it fully now. I don’t see why there is a cap at $106k. That makes no sense at all to me.”
That’s why I always try to read the text of any major speech, to better digest what’s in there, without the influence of skillful oratory. I can’t say I am opposed as yet, becuase Pat is correct: All workers would see an immediate benefit, and this benefit would be shared with employers as well, especially small businesses. But my gut tells me we that in attempting to fix one problem, we are only creating or exacerbating another. As Teddy Roosevelt once said:
When facing a decision the “best” decision is the “right” decision. Second “best” is the wrong decision, but the “worst” is to make no decision.
@Moon-howler
Many private-sector companies have been forced to temporarily suspend 401K contributions. At least VA acknowldges this as a deferral, which implies it will be caught up when financials improve.
Regarding McCain, I can’t say. Maybe, maybe not. But that is purely an academic discussion at best, since we’d never know. What I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence based on history, had Obama followed either the JFK model or the Reagan model, or some amalgamation of both, I think his re-election prospects would be much better. We’d either be in a sustained recovery, or if not, he’d be able to say : I did what worked before, and it didn’t work as well this time. That would be leadership, ownership of the problem, and ownership of the results, whatever they are.
You see, in as much as Bush and the previous GOP majority share much of the blame, what is conveniently forgotten is Bush had to deal with a Democrat Senate and House during the last two years of his term. While he asked for many of the spending bills in 2006-2008, it was a Democrat congress that passed those bills, and the many bailouts. Bush signed them all, so he owns it. Obama enjoyed this majority when he took office, for two years. Now he can try to say the GOP obstructed everything he tried, but this would be a falsehood. He had 24 months of goodwill, popularity, political capital and a friendly House and Senate with which to drive results. Reagan didn’t have this at any time. If he was getting resistance from the Congress, he took his argument to the people, who pressured Congress to negotiate, and Reagan was a good negotiator. I also can’t recall Reagan continuing to blame Carter, once he took office. Nope. Reagan led. He took ownership, and he got results.
He’s chasing you down MH! http://ibankcoin.com/chessnwine/files/2011/09/wtf_pictures_7.jpg
@Cato the Elder
Too funny! He caught all of us. That is a great picture.
@Steve, You have different memories of Reagan than I do.
I still question where the tea party was when all this was coming down. Obviously we were fighting 2 wars that whose cost was being deferred. Where were they? How about the Rx bill? Where were they? The tax cuts while fighting 2 wars? They were silent. That bothers me. At least be consistent in outrage.
I also get tired of people who just poke and criticize and never offer real solutions. I have not heard real solutions out of any of them. No taxes in any form is not a solution to me. Its just unacceptable that millionaires get off the hook for even a 1% raise in taxes.
This is my problem. Crickets. Then Obama comes on the scene and it started before he was even innaugurated. And I still ever never heard one acceptable idea. No, I don’t think dissolving all all of medicare, medicaid and social security is an answer.
It is the fact that this same group sat silent when everything that is wrong now was given tacit approval. Then the new guy comes on the job and you would think Satan had arrived.
I left out that the Medicare Prescription Drug plan was inacted in 2003 and NCLB in 2001. The rx plan was fully RRR. (and I am not grousing about it, just pointing out it isn’t funded) and NCLB was R D* R breakdown.
A memo from Mayor Parrish this afternoon:
“There will be a clergy-led Interfaith Service to commemorate the 10th Anniversary
of 9/11 on Sunday 11, 2011 at 1:30 at the Harris Pavilion. The service is
expected to last for approximately 30 minutes. Everyone is welcome.”