A decade seems like a very short time, in so many ways.
Osama Bin Laden found out that he had awakened a sleeping giant.
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117 Thoughts to “Open Thread……………………………………….Sunday, 9/11/11”
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- 9500Liberty
- Bacons' Rebellion Blogspot
- Bearing Drift
- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
- My Star Journey
- NARAL Pro-Choice VA Blog
- New Dominion Project
- Nova Common Sense
- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
The ceremonies at Ground Zero and the Pentagon are very moving. MSNBC has had some interesting interviews as has Fox News.
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/nuckols/wb/298004
There is no question that Todd Beamer and other passengers on
Flight 93 saved hundreds of lives by their brave actions.
“I will have to go out on faith… lets’roll.”
Definitely they saved lives, Big Dog.
Didn’t his wife try to get a copyright on ‘let’s roll?’
I am mesmerized by the TV. I was somewhere on 9/11 where I could get no news. I was unaware of how really lame the media was.
I am watching on-going old footage from that day…sort of archived ‘live’ discussion. These folks were just guessing and pulling ‘facts’ from their butt. It is enraging how badly they just wanted something to say so they just pass along crap in leiu of known facts.
Not sure about that M-H, but my son was at work near the Capitol and my
daughter (two months pregnant with my first grandchild) was at her desk
close to the W-H on 9-11-2001. I often think of the path Flight 93 might
have taken without the brave intervention of the passengers.
I spent a lot of 2001-2009 bashing GW Bush. But in retrospect he did do a very good job I think handling 9/11 slash the Middle East slash Islamic terorism.
I still don’t think that invading Iraq was right or smart. But I appreciate that he :
A. Led us to so effectively dry up financial support to terrorists
B. So effectively demonstrated to the bin Ladens of the world that if you draw our blood, you will get the opposite of what you want
We showed the testosterone-addled nitwits that run the Middle East that we are by no means cowards, and that if you attack us you are going to be sorry you did it. Hence no more attacks (even with porous borders and millions of illegal immigrants handling our food supply). And, we are engaged with our military in the Middle East as we unfortunately do need to be. On the whole there was some good leadership exerted.
(The things I still don’t like were politicizing our intelligence apparatus, and attacking Iraq more or less to distract attention from Saudi Arabia’s complicity in 9/11).
By the way, as a resident movie nut, this is 2 months away but this documentary about 4 American kids who serve in Afghanistan will air on PBS in November. I’m one of the lucky set of people who’s seen it (at Silverdocs) and I think it is great stuff (up there with “Restrepo”. And “Armadillo” which I saw last week on PBS was good too). I say, mark your calendars for this … http://www.pbs.org/pov/wheresoldierscomefrom/
(The point of the movie is the real sacrifice these guys make in terms of suffering trauma, and changed lives).
@Big Dog, or for that matter that plane could have come crashing down on your house. Yes, we in this area really owe them a debt of gratitude. I guess that’s why I feel strongly that there needs to be a memorial, so people will never forget. It is harder to forget a memorial over time.
Rick, I have softened a great deal on George W. If nothing else, the ‘draw our blood’ remark sort of says it all. I didn’t like many things he did but I never doubted his sincerety, even at my harshest moments at him.
I enjoyed meeting everyone that came out to Mama Mia’s today and look forward to doing it again (still disappointed there was no cake this time). When we were talking about the 2012 elections and the role religion could play, I mentioned a recent survey that looked at attitudes about religion among Americans. It was a joint effort between the Brookings Institution and the Public Religion Research Institute. Here’s a link to the report:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/reports/2011/0906_american_attitudes/0906_american_attitudes.pdf
Also, congrats to Krystal Ball for signing on as a commentator for MSNBC. It will be good to see someone from PWC on the national stage on a regular basis.
Lest we forget—
I hope people found the time today to remember the more than 6,200 young American service personnel who have died since 9/11. Theyhave died in the hope that such a tragedy won’t happen again.
Thank you for that sad reminder. George. I had no idea the number had soared that much. Then there are the 20,000 or so who have suffered from life altering injuries from war.
I wish that Bush hadn’t invaded Iraq in response to 9/11. Not only has it cost lives lost on all sides in a war on a country that was no threat to us, but borrowing money from China to pay for the wars has led our country down a collission course to financial ruin. Cheney exemplified the Bush Administration’s borrow-and-squander attitude when he said that deficits don’t matter. I’m glad that Obama’s withdrawing troops from both places. We just don’t have the money to occupy these countries.
Knocking off Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden is one thing (sounds like a mission goal to me)…but we cannot and should not afford “nation-building” exercises (a favorite past-time of neo-conservatives.)
No disagreement on nation-building, Pokie. Nation building should start at home.
@Slowpoke Rodriguez
Don’t get me started on “nation-building.” It’s one of the worst foreign policy ideas the US has ever pursued. Our foreign and defense policies must focus on defending the US rather than remaking other countries in our image. The Founding Fathers knew this but we forgot the message. George Washington advised against entering into “entangling alliances,” and Thomas Jefferson advocated de facto recognition of any foreign government, whether we like them or not. It’s the job of their own people to change it.
The US is still the most powerful, richest nation in the world but our role must change. There is no more expansionist Soviet Empire. The Chinese “communists” are more interested in making money than global conquest. We need to return to the wisdom of our Founding Fathers.
Our military must be restructured to meet the needs of an appropriate defense policy. In the 21st century that means much smaller, often highly secret actions, drone attacks, etc. that the public will often never know of. Gone are the days of massive armies confronting each other on the battlefield.
Recall what Ron Paul said in the debate; that trading with people is cheaper than bombing them. I also like his idea of pursuing a foreign policy of minding our own business.
The problem is again money and politics. The force we need to confront the new challenges is much cheaper than the military we have maintained since the early 20th century. Special interests and campaign contributions will keep our tax money and Federal debt flowing into expenditures we no longer need.
@NTK
Actually President Obama should get high marks from you on what your advocate. He has used drone attacks and secret missions far more than President Bush did. It is cheaper and more precise, for sure.
Mr. Harris, Hear!Hear!
I continue to view our losses to be more victims of 9/11, even if they didn’t occur on that day. To me, they are like the first responders of that awful day. They voluntarily have done a dangerous job and many have lost their lives going into harm’s way.
@Moon-howler
Even as a Republican, I give him high marks on some aspects of his foreign policy.
@NTK, see, that wasn’t so difficult.
I agree. Perhaps my criticism of him there is he hasn’t crowed and trumpeted enough, for fear of pissing off the liberals. He really has been a smart warrior rather then a loud one. I just read that he has done more far more drone attacks, especially in Pakistan than Bush did in 8 years. (not that it should be a comparison) He also uses CIA, FBI, and the various covert divisions within the service branches very effectively. Its a lot cheaper than moving armies.
Now I am thinking how far we have come from even the Civil War where men stood out in the middle of battlefields and fired single load rifles at each other.
History Channel (I think that was the channel) had an interesting show on over the weekend about the U-2 spy plane program and the Eisenhower administration. Those flights showed that assessments of Soviet military capabilities had been vastly exaggerated and that we did not need the extent of military spending some were questioning. That led Eisenhower to scale back defense spending requests. He later warned of the dangers of the “military-industrial complex.”
correction; extent of military spending some were requesting.
http://www.denverpost.com/littwin/ci_18855604?source=rss
The Lost Decade?
Misc. memories:
– Being told first responders from PWC and the two cities were being quickly
being called to Fairfax County to help cover stations vacated by FC staffs rushing
to help Arlington County.
– Seeing planes at Manassas Airport parked wing tip to wing tip and covering every
foot of the tarmac after the FAA order for everyone to land PDQ.
– Working for the security company that took over at Dulles right after 9-11
until they turned it over to the TSA over a year later. ( Attending a brief, but deeply
moving ceremony at the gate American #77 departed from on the first
anniversary of 9-11). Worked the afternoon/evening shift and was always deeply
relieved to hear the next morning news not mention Dulles – my nightmare
was that I had failed to notice something and people died. Have had jobs
with more “prestige” and pay, but no others with front line
responsibility for human lives.
– Race, age, gender, education, or origin of birth didn’t matter when the planes hit,
death showed no descrimination.
Those are some pretty powerful memories.
Mine involve not being able access information from the media on that day. The cable was out in the building where I was.
I still sleep with a TV on as a result of that day.
Know the Black Screen isn’t popular on this blog, but give some props
— it apparently helped Krystal Ball land a nice TV job.
The thread is up, Big Dog. I guess our area is the home of the first Krytal Ball fan club. Ivan suggested that she might want to send an autographed picture to her biggest fan!!!!!
No kidding. I am working on that right now.
How was your event yesterday, Big Dog?
We missed your company.
State by State look at the American Jobs Act
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/09/09/state-state-look-american-jobs-act
http://www.denverpost.com/littwin/ci-18881488?source=rss
How does the pro-life Tea Party explain the applause and cheering for
a high rate of executions in Texas and a suggestion we throw uninsured
sick people in the street? Do those actions reflect the views of most
Republicans?
@Big Dog, I am guessing that there is a great deal of inconsistency along those lines.
I am still having a hard time reconciling pulling the plug on Planned Parenthood even being a medicaid provider for contraception and trying to stamp out abortion.
There is a disconnect here that doesn’t even make sense. Why make contraception less available and cut off access to abortion and expect to pay less in social services?
For people who think like that, praying away the gay makes about as much sense. There is just a reality check that I can’t get past.
M-H, the event offered hope, reflection and prayer
and I give thanks for that.
@Big Dog
I am glad it was meaningful.
Hopefully next time you will be able to attend.
American Jobs Act for Virginia
What will it mean to us here in the Old Dominion
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/THE_AMERICAN_JOBS_ACT_Impact_VA.pdf
It was great meeting/seeing everyone last Sunday. Always a nice time. Hope everyone will remember that day the next time they have the urge to blast someone on the blog. Remember, never bite when a growl will suffice.
@Steve grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
It is difficult to snarl when you have broken bread with your fellow bloggers.
Thanks again for making the arrangements.
Also, if you are in the area, make sure to give either of the Mama Mia’s your business. The other store is in K-Mart shopping center. That store delivers also.
My B-I-L comes back from his 2nd tour in about a week. YAY!!! He’s got another tour around XMAS timeframe but I’m hoping that he gets to spend longer with his kids.
The food and convo was really good. TY MH and Steve for setting it up.
@Marin
Thank you and Mrs. M for coming out. How are the precious lambs today?
from NY times email:
Too bad Weiner couldn’t keep it zipped.
I think President Obama said it best: “That’s what elections are for!”
New statistics from the Lost Decade. It is horrifying and sad.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/us/14census.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2
50 million Americans without health insurance. Who will pay for services for them? Why are Republicans fighting health care reform so much?
I don’t get it. The figures are staggering and we pay for it when those 50 million don’t.
http://www.slate.com/id/2303760/
This is one of the key questions about healthcare – who pays for uninsured
poor when they have a medical emergency?
1) The hospital – and allow it to add the cost to everyone else’s bill.
2) Throw the patient out the back door.
3) Something else? Explain.
The GOP candidates are in a tough spot – they either have to defy the
right-wing of their party or logic.
@Moon-howler
We now have roughly 45,000 who have suffered “life altering injuries.” We are going to be living with the reminders of these wars for decades. As recently as the Vietnam war, many of these young men and women would have died of their injuries. Now we are able to save their lives, which is great I guess if you are one of those whose life was saved. Maybe.
I find it hard to believe that President Obama has sent Congress the new jobs bill with the same income raising proposals that have been used in the past and have failed. So it would seem that the whole thing is DOA as far as the Republicans are concerned. He told the American people it would be paid for but he forgot to tell them that he was going to use the same failed proposals to do so.
@George, Maybe is right. I guess that varies from individual to individual.
We are getting close to the number of names on the wall of the Vietnam Memorial Wall. I had no idea the number was so high for life altering injuries. My numbers were bad enough!
I can’t believe that Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, head of the DNC, is claiming this district is “tough for Democrats”. This district hadn’t elected a Republican since 1920, and was formerly held by Chuck Schumer and Geraldine Ferraro. Even the NYT is grudgingly admitting this is yet another referendum on the Obama presidency. 2012 is looking worse and worse for the Democrat party every day, and more and more like a 2nd Republican Revolution is in the making, a’la 1994. They difference I see here is not only will the Democrats lose the Senate, they will also lose the Whitehouse, ushering in a “lost decade” of their own. I also suspect that there will be an internal bloodbath post-election, and several moderates switching to GOP. If the worst case scenario occurs, look for Reid to lose in a bid for Senate Minority Leader, and Pelosi to be out of her minority leader position as well.
The equation is simple: Bad economy + ineffective President= Party gets punished in midterm +gets further hurt by redistricting= even more ineffective President=bad economy continues=Party gets punished+Party loses even bigger.
@Steve, I don’t know why she would say something that preposterous.
I wouldn’t count my chickens before they hatch as far as the 2012 election. It is way too far off to start predicting.
There is also the fact that we didn’t get where we are in a vacuum. Perhaps it is time for a really solid 3rd party candidate if everyone is so disgusted.
No lost decade for the Democrats yet. I am just not ready to give the GOP another turn yet. Having the ‘lost decade’ as a kudo isn’t much of a selling point.
@Moon-howler
“No lost decade for the Democrats yet. I am just not ready to give the GOP another turn yet. Having the ‘lost decade’ as a kudo isn’t much of a selling point.”
Moon, the reason I am so confident is I understand history, and I am proficient in higher math. Right now both are heavily weighted against the Democrats. Like birthrates, once they fall below replacement level, a population declines. Once they fall below recovery level, the population is terminal. I am not saying the Democrat party is terminal. I am saying that they are going to have a tough time during the next decade. If they are smart, they will take their lumps, learn their lessons, and set about rebuilding the party, and hope they are back on track for the 2020 census, and the redistricting that follows. This means they must compete at ALL levels of government, and this is why it will take so long. Right now, they don’t have a “bench”. There’s no young turks out there. This is a consequence of losing so big at the state level. If you don’t compete at this level, you have no “farm system” from which to draw your national players. I cannot stress enough how big the loss was for Democrats last November, because of redistricting. Again, history and math both support my arguement. All the Democrats have right now is “Hope”, because it’s going to be a long while before they are in position to effect “Change”. As Clauswitz right said: In order to accomplish any task, or relaize any goal, two things are required: The WILL to do so, and the MEANS to do so. Rights now the Democrats are lacking in both, when it comes to winning elections.
This and “operation fast and furious” will both be campaign issues that the Administration will be hard pressed to defend against: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/14/officials-raised-concerns-solar-firms-solvency-ahead-bankruptcy-emails-show/
And they can’t blame Bush for it either: The Bush Admin looked at the business and decided not to move forward.
@Steve Thomas
I too have read some history and understand higher mathematics and I would venture to say that probably the history I have read is different from the history you enjoy reading.
I would say that the Republicans are winning the game of psychology. However, the problem is also that they might be winning too much. I am a firm believer in the best way to fix complacency and electoral stupidity is to lose and to lose big. Sometimes that is what it takes. Once people realize see the alternatives, they start kicking their own behinds.
I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that locked in predictions are premature. Right now, things could go either way. You are looking at only one side. of the equation. The Republicans shot themselves in the foot last time by pandering to the base far too much. They are going to have to get used to holding their noses way more than they did last time if they are going to pull a win off. Last time they were their own worst enemy.
But…we shall see. I am only going to worry about my own bank account this election. And …how shall we put it…there are lots of boomers.
Hey guys! Since I’m only on for short whiles, here’s someone to remember for 9/11
Rick Rescorla
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/000307.html
Cargo!!!! where have you been????? Do we have to get you a new computer?
What are you doing taking college courses?
Moon,
It is the historical, cyclical nature of American voting habits, the boom and bust nature of our economy, the 10-year cycle of redistricting, that are the main predicters here. If I am off, it will only be regarding scale, not the overall trend. On this I am quite confident.
If you look at these recent special elections, you will see that much of Obama’s base is fleeing him, and in doing so voting in Republicans. Republicans are being elected in the oddest places. Democrat places. Places that Obama won handily in 2008. If Democrats can’t even get elected in these Democrat places, how badly do you think it’s going to go in swing states and districts in 2012? There are lot’s and lot’s of boomers in NY-9. NY is a “Registration by Party” state. D’s outnumber R’s 3:1 in this district. Obama’s name didn’t appear on the ballot. The D lost, and not by a small margin.
There are lots of seniors in NY-9. Not sure about boomers. Remember that the boomers are just getting started ‘coming of age.’ Think how sick of us everyone will be after 20 years of boomerdom.
I reference the boomers only because retirement and medicare will become sacrosanct and jokers like Rick Perry will fear for their political lives in the very near future. He stepped right on some sacred cows. I have no way of predicting what the sacred cows will be but I am guessing that right to death with dignity will become as important as abortion issues. Social security and Medicare will also take over once the boomers energize. Right now, boomers are pretty beaten up because of the crash. Once they realize they recouped, they will roar in to being royal PITAs. Just a prediction. Its one that has loomed on the horizon since our fathers all came home from the war with that gleam in their eye. The boomer impact is a yet untested phenomena.
The Casa Blanca basically says “we meant for those two seats to be lost….we didn’t want them anyway!”
pokie:
That sounds like sour grapes to me. re Casa Blanca remark.
@Steve T:
I think you are also running on the premise that if you say it enough it will come to pass. That works fairly well, especially on fair-weather democrats.
It won’t work on old independents (like me) though because they tend to be holistic voters. ie looking ahead to supreme court appointments, etc.
“But if you love me, you’ve got to help me pass this bill”. Would that be called “conditional love”???
@pokie, I hope we didn’t take away your will to be a smart ass, pokie.
I just blamed what you said on Steve, mentally. I will fix that.
Yes. And it will work.
@pokie
How are the senior Pokes and the young pokettes this week? How about Mrs. Pokie?
One day, after I had been sent from Vietnam to a military hospital in the States, a young Navy Nurse (later to become Mrs. Wolverine) told me that the people in the medical units in Vietnam itself were performing miracles. She had just come off a tour on the hospital medical and ICU wards and remarked that, in previous wars, many of her patients would probably not have lived long enough to get to her. She recounted coming into work one day and being approached by a young Marine in uniform. At first she didn’t quite recognize him and then she remembered him — as a young fellow previously in a wheelchair with only one leg. Then, he raised the leg of his uniform trousers to reveal a prosthetic. With a grin, he exclaimed: “Look at me, Lieutenant! I can walk again! I can even dance!”
George S. Harris was one of those people out in the Nam to which Mrs. Wolverine was referring. He was one of her “miracle workers.” Thank you, George.
@Wolverine, Thanks for recognizing one of our own. I agree that George is a miracle worker and it didn’t quit when he retired.
@George, Thanks for reminding us to focus on things that might not be sexy or in vogue with the patriotism police also.
I wish you all had both come to our meet up. It was a small group and we all got along well. I worry that we scarred Pokie though. 🙄