The rulings are in but the dust is far from settled. Many of us are still trying to sort out what has been allowed and what has not. One thing that remains is particularly troubling– schools will be directed to track the immigration status of school children.
According to Yahoo.com:
U.S. District Judge Sharon Blackburn sided with the state of Alabama on Wednesday on two key sections of the state’s wide-ranging crackdown on illegal immigrants. Blackburn refused to enjoin a law that will compel elementary and secondary school administrators to demand students provide birth certificates to prove they were born in the United States, and then compile lists of illegal immigrant children in their schools. In theory, schools could begin to ask parents about their children’s immigration status today, though it’s unclear if they will do so, since school has already started.
In the first place, schools require birth certificates having nothing to do with this ruling. Students entering school for the first time present a birth certificate. A birth certificate does not necessarily determine status if not issued in the United States. Students without US birth certificates will be on the ones in the line of fire and who will have to provide status information.
Students who are not in the United States legally must be educated, according to Plyler v. Doe. that is established law. So, that begs the question, why do the schools need this information? When we label students as ‘illegal,’ how soon before we start labeling them with other things or start denying services that aren’t directly school related? Could Alabama schools not allow those students to play after school sports? How about free and reduced lunch? How about free tutoring services? The abuses are out there and technically might not violate the provisions of Plyler. Maybe they could even refuse them to participate in graduation ceremonies like denying them the right to walk across the stage to receive a diploma. The abuse list is endless.
Don’t say it can’t happen. Of course it can happen. All it would take is for some local politician to want to play tough guy by ‘showing them illegals who’s boss.’ There is nothing that any jurisdiction can do legally with such information. As this case marches on towards the Supreme Court, hopefully this provision that allows the tracking of students to be shot down. This case appears to be a new low in immigration laws.
Very exciting! Love it, Love it, Love it!
You don’t really want to take your war to children, pokie.
btw, were you out of town? I wanted to geek talk with you about kindle Fire.
The Repugs are trying to turn this country into a police state! We are on the road to a fascist state folks, with knuckleheads like Slowpoke leading the charge!
Pretty soon we will have jack-booted thugs on every street corner, demanding papers and shoving women and children around! We have every right to defend ourselves from a tyrannical government hell-bent on crushing our throats under their boots!
I think if the idea behind this is to start determining the cost to the taxpayer for educating the children where status is in question — then this advances the societal need to have a debate and base a decision on facts.
Now we can say that within a given county or state that the education of illegal children or children of illegals costs X total and that each taxpayer pays an additional X in taxes because of it.
It’s a mighty bad way to assess costs. What about all those kids who are American born? Are we going to just assign them into the ‘illegal’ pool because they have an Hispanic surname? There are lots and lots of kids who are in school who were born in this country.
There is no legitimate reason for schools to start amassing this kind of information. Ahem…re…Elena and I really don’t like undocumented residents being called ‘illegals.’ Not to nag…but….
Why don’t we just start requiring schools to keep track of religion? We have seen where that has gone in the past.
The march toward fascism continues unabated and cheered by the ignorant masses! The masses applaud and acquiese to the abrogation of their rights, just as in nazi Germany.
@Starry, When governments start collecting information on people that they really don’t need, then I would say there is great potential for evil to be done.
@Moon-howler
“Are we going to just assign them into the ‘illegal’ pool because they have an Hispanic surname?”
Well that would be a silly way to do it. We’d end up missing a lot of people that way.
“There is no legitimate reason for schools to start amassing this kind of information.”
If schools request more money from the taxpayers I think it’s appropriate for the taxpayers to understand the costs one way or another.
“Why don’t we just start requiring schools to keep track of religion?”
Religion has no bearing on the cost of education to the taxpayer.
“We have every right to defend ourselves from a tyrannical government hell-bent on crushing our throats under their boots!”
Starry, how do you plan on defending yourself. I thought you were very anti-gun?
You still have not verified how to gather this information accurately. I don’t think the taxpayers are entitled to know a person’s status unless they have done something wrong.
Student records are still protected information from FOIA. A taxpayer would never know that “Jane S. Illegal” is not documented. They would only know that “X” undocumented students or “X” students with undocumented parents attend a certain school.
@Moon-howler
I think this needs to be tweaked a hair. This is more accurate:
“When governments start collecting information on citizens that they really don’t need, then the potential for evil is there.”
Just changed the one, all-important word.
You mean, like health care information…….?
This information is required. Illegal immigrants need to be identified so that the appropriate funding can be legislated. The information is needed so that resources can be allocated appropriately. Btw, how is an illegal immigrant getting housing if they have no documentation? How are they getting government help, if any, if they have no documentation? How are they getting jobs without any documentation? I mean, that’s what “undocumented” means, right?
All non-citizens are required to have id and evidence of their status on their persons. That’s the law.
@moonhowler “You still have not verified how to gather this information accurately. I don’t think the taxpayers are entitled to know a person’s status unless they have done something wrong.”
Being in the country without inspection is illegal therfore “wrong”
Bringing up Nazi Germany took much longer than I would have thought here. Typically, the brain dead can’t express the concept of 2+2 without couching the answer in terms of the third reich!
@marinm
What are you basing that information on though? Back to the citizen children–they are not going to show up as illegal immigrants. The older kids will simply n ot go to school.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
I am going to disagree with you. It is very easy to remove citizenship in a corrupt government. And furthermore, many legal residents live in the United States with our blessings. I think the operative words are, “need to know.” The school doesn’t need to know that information.
@Moon-howler
Which part so I can answer your question.
the biggest problem with illegal immigration is that Congress has spent more time this year on trying to defund NPR, than it has on addressing immigration.
Neither party really wants to fix immigration, just like they do not want to tackle other big issues. But, keep deflecting the issues into NPR funding, and the sheeple will go along.
@marinm
I don’t remember.
FWIW, this is what the law says:
Section 28. (a)(1) Every public elementary and secondary school in this state, at the time of enrollment in kindergarten or any grade in such school, shall determine whether the student enrolling in public school was born outside the jurisdiction of the United States or is the child of an alien not lawfully present in the United States and qualifies for assignment to an English as Second Language class or other remedial program.
(2) The public school, when making the determination required by subdivision (1), shall rely upon presentation of the student’s original birth certificate, or a certified copy thereof.
(3) If, upon review of the student’s birth certificate, it is determined that the student was born outside the jurisdiction of the United States or is the child of an alien not lawfully present in the United States, or where such certificate is not available for any reason, the parent, guardian, or legal custodian of the student shall notify the school within 30 days of the date of the student’s enrollment of the actual citizenship or immigration status of the student under federal law.
(4) Notification shall consist of both of the following:
a. The presentation for inspection, to a school official designated for such purpose by the school district in which the child is enrolled, of official documentation establishing the citizenship and, in the case of an alien, the immigration status of the student, or alternatively by submission of a notarized copy of such documentation to such official.
b. Attestation by the parent, guardian, or legal custodian, under penalty of perjury, that the document states the true identity of the child. If the student or his or her parent, guardian, or legal representative possesses no such documentation but nevertheless maintains that the student is either a United States citizen or an alien lawfully present in the United States, the parent, guardian, or legal representative of the student may sign a declaration so stating, under penalty of perjury.
(5) If no such documentation or declaration is presented, the school official shall presume for the purposes of reporting under this section that the student is an alien unlawfully present in the United States.
(b) Each school district in this state shall collect and compile data as required by this section.
(c) Each school district shall submit to the State Board of Education an annual report listing all data obtained pursuant to this section.
(d)(1) The State Board of Education shall compile and submit an annual public report to the Legislature.
(2) The report shall provide data, aggregated by public school, regarding the numbers of United States citizens, of lawfully present aliens by immigration classification, and of aliens believed to be unlawfully present in the United States enrolled at all primary and secondary public schools in this state. The report shall also provide the number of students in each category participating in English as a Second Language Programs enrolled at such schools.
(3) The report shall analyze and identify the effects upon the standard or quality of education provided to students who are citizens of the United States residing in Alabama that may have occurred, or are expected to occur in the future, as a consequence of the enrollment of students who are aliens not lawfully present in the United States.
(4) The report shall analyze and itemize the fiscal costs to the state and political subdivisions thereof of providing educational instruction, computers, textbooks and other supplies, free or discounted school meals, and extracurricular activities to students who are aliens not lawfully present in the United States.
(5) The State Board of Education shall prepare and issue objective baseline criteria for identifying and assessing the other educational impacts on the quality of education provided to students who are citizens of the United States, due to the enrollment of aliens who are not lawfully present in the United states, in addition to the statistical data on citizenship and immigration status and English as a Second Language enrollment required by this act. The State Board of Education may contract with reputable scholars and research institutions to identify and validate such criteria. The State Board of Education shall assess such educational impacts and include such assessments in its reports to the Legislature.
(e) Public disclosure by any person of information obtained pursuant to this section which personally identifies any student shall be unlawful, except for purposes permitted pursuant to 8 U.S.C. §§ 1373 and 1644. Any person intending to make a public disclosure of information that is classified as confidential under this section, on the ground that such disclosure constitutes a use permitted by federal law, shall first apply to the Attorney General and receive a waiver of confidentiality from the requirements of this subsection.
(f) A student whose personal identity has been negligently or intentionally disclosed in violation of this section shall be deemed to have suffered an invasion of the student’s right to privacy. The student shall have a civil remedy for such violation against the agency or person that has made the unauthorized disclosure.
Marin, this whole thing of targeting kids makes me sick. I don’t think the school can force the parents to provide any kind of documentation on themselves. It would be illegal.
They have to provide a copy of a child’s birth certificate and proof of residency in most states. To ask for more is just not acceptable.
Again, it makes me sick to see children targeted. I don’t care what reason is given. There is too much room for abuse.
I would be very surprised if that component of the law passes constitutional muster.
I am disgusted that children are being targeted and there really does not need to be further discussion. If you LIVE in a house in your county, you or your landowner pays taxes for schools. If you BUY goods in the county you live in, you pay taxes for schools. To suggest status has anything to do with school system funding is ignorant. Now, could there be additional money allocated for ESOL, yes, but that is not JUST for kids here without proper documentation. Just cut to the chase for those targeting ESOL children. Have the gestapo visit those classes, pull those kids aside, demand documentation from their parents showing their green cards or “papers”.
Does anyone here think that busloads or truckloads of parents and children is a scene this country really WANTS? Is THAT an American value? How about people that were ONCE “illegally present” but changed their status, should we round them up too AND their children?
This just in, immigration is not the critical issue facing this country people, the growing disparity in wealth of have and have nots is critical. The influence of corporate money is doing more to damage this Democracy than any poor working class immigrant!
Maybe this is an attempt to push back on Plyler v. Doe. The Court somehow found the right to free public education for illegals buried in the 14th Amendment, despite the fact that the protections of the 14th specifically refer to persons within the “jurisdiction” of the states. If this new Texas law makes it all the way to the Supreme Court, perhaps Plyler v. Doe could be overturned.
@Kelly, All residents and visitors are under the jurisdiction of the United States except diplomats. At the time the 14th was passed, some American Indians were in a grey area also.
I seriously doubt that Plyler will be overturned. Here is a thought–do we really want millions of kids here who are ignorant? Who pays the bill for that?
We will never save money banking on ignorance.
How awesome is this! It’s already working! According to local news, suddenly, school enrollment is down dramatically, as illegals are heading out of state to drag down somebody else’s budgets! See, you don’t need to deport. Take away the “free stuff” and they leave on their own!
I expect those kids just aren’t going to school. I can’t see the county sending the truant officer after those kids. You did mean in Alabama didn’t you? @Pokie
An ounce of prevention is really worth a pound of cure!
Actually parents have to produce quite a few documents to enroll a child in school:
An original birth certificate
A SSN for child
Photo ID of registering parent whose name must appear on birth cert
Deed or rental application that has name of registering parent on it and must match address on photo ID
3 pieces of mail with registering parent’s name on it and address matching to deed/lease
If a parent rents a room from “uncle joe” and is not on a lease, “uncle joe” must come to the school and bring his photo ID, 3 pieces of mail with his name on it, and sign an affidavit stating parent lives in the home, and the affidavit is then notarized.
All of the above information is photocopied and placed in the student’s file.
@DB But parent’s status verification is not required ever, is it?
In all of my years registering new students I have to say it’s been at least 10 years since I’ve seen a birth certificate that was not issued here in the US.
As for ESOL, students are tested for ESOL if the parents indicate that another language other than English is spoken in the home, though not necessarily by the student. There are students with ESOL labels that barely speak another language or don’t speak another language other than English. They are ESOL by proxy, because another language is spoken in the home. ESOL testing is done in K and ALL of the students tested will be classified as ESOL since the test used (WIDA) has a reading and writing component that K students are not able to complete in September. Students are tested each Fall and Spring and as their reading and writing ability improves, so does their ESOL level (1-4). AND not all students with an ESOL designation receive ESOL services since many of them are proficient English speakers and only Level 1’s and 2’s may require services and some may not.
ESOL data doesn’t always give a clear picture. If a school says they have 80% ESOL students, that doesn’t mean 80% of the students don’t speak English, it only means 80% of the students come from a home where a language other than English is spoken. A school could have an 80% ESOL population, but maybe only 20% of those students require ESOL services. My co-worker had an ESOL label throughout her entire school career yet she only spoke English.
@DB,
I find that Alabama law horrifying. I don’t think it will give them the information they seek anyway. It is all bogus and meant to throw fear into the hearts of illegal immigrants. They are hoping they will just leave. I expect they will stay and just keep their kids out of school if there is no American birth certificate.
I do not like targeting students.
I agree. But will the schools be expected to ask the parents about their own status? And just because a student has a foreign birth cert doesn’t mean they’re not here legally. Maybe their parents have amnesty, maybe the family is here on a VISA, who knows. I know schools don’t ask parents to reveal their personal status when registering children for school around here. They just need the documents for registration and most of them use a VA drivers license as their photo ID. As for a birth certificate, any will suffice, foreign or domestic. The purpose of the birth cert is to verify the student is of age to attend school and to verify that the person registering them is the legal parent. Can a minor even be here illegally since they didn’t have a choice to come here?
@DB, that is how I feel. A kid has no choice where he or she is. Parents can be here illegally. Kids cannot since they have no choice or control.
@Moon-howler
As you say, all residents or visitors are under U.S. jurisdiction, but there is no reason to consider illegal aliens to be in either category. If they sneak across the border and there is no record of their entry into the country, how can they be considered under US jurisdiction? That makes absolutely no sense.
If free access to schools and medical care is no longer provided, fewer of them are likely come across the border. We have already seen a decline due to the bad economy.
If they aren’t under our jurisdiction, how can we incarcerate them for wrong-doing? How can we try them? We don’t try diplomats in most cases. How about those 40 percent to don’t sneak across the border? Yes, 40% of our illegal immigrant population is from over-staying a visa.
Frankly, I have never met an illegal immigrant who came here for the free schools. Do we provide medical care?
I think that anyone who thinks school records contain oodles of foreign birth certs are going to be dismayed by how few there really are. Maybe back in the early 1980’s there were many, but those students have mostly graduated by now. Nowadays in this area one would find only a handful of foreign birth certificates in most schools. Last spring I did 54 registrations in one day and didn’t see a single non US birth certificate.
Plus, the US isn’t really going after kids who essentially grew up here anyway as long as they don’t commit any crimes. My daughter has a friend J. who was snagged at a party b/c he had no ID. He came here as an infant. He went to the detention facility and was then released on probation since he has no criminal record. His court hearing is scheduled for 2014. He has until then to prove he can support himself and he will most likely get to stay since he hasn’t been to Mexico since infancy and speaks no Spanish.
Likewise, a girl I know, S., is 21, a high school graduate, married to a US citizen and a mother to two small children. She applied years ago to remain in the US and was just recently summoned to the local immigration office. S. came with her family to the US on a VISA when she was 7 months old. Her parents overstayed their VISA. S. didn’t even know she was here illegally until she was in HS and her parents explained to her why she couldn’t get a drivers license. When she visited the immigration office she discovered there was a deportation order with her name on it issued in 1994. Will she be deported? Not now. The immigration officer gave her paper work to fill out. She provided school records, criminal check, marriage license, tax forms she and hubby filed, proof of how long they dated prior to marriage (prom pictures and such), and her husband had to provide his pay stubs and has to show he is financially able to support her. S. had to go through an interview about what she wanted to do in the future. S. said she hoped to remain here and be able to drive and go to college and get a job. The paper work has been submitted and now she waits to find out. She was told that it could be a year or so before she hears back.
And all those stories make me sick. Why should it take a year? These young people have done nothing wrong. In each case, you have lawabiding people going about their daily lives.
We aren’t talking about thugs who are out causing trouble. I want rid of thugs, not nice people.
Lets not forget, Obama gave an executive order to allow immigrants here without proper documentation to have a hearing to determine if they could stay and be given legal stauts. More people should turn themselves and become legalized.
Another unfunded mandate by conservatives? How is NCLB working out?
My take on Pyler vs. Doe is that it guarantees the child can be educated, but not that they won’t be deported. Or that the parents won’t eb deported.
“These young people have done nothing wrong.”
However, their parents did.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/01/reports-hispanic-students-vanishing-from-alabama-schools-after-immigration/?test=latestnews
But several districts with large immigrant enrollments — from small towns to large urban districts — reported a sudden exodus of children of Hispanic parents, some of whom told officials they planned to leave the state to avoid trouble with the law, which requires schools to check students’ immigration status.
Oh what the Hell, we’ll just let them flood into the country by the millions each year. No threat of disease, gangs, burden on those who pay taxes, or any impact on our economy right? We should just give up now, tear down the fence, abolish the Border Patrol, and use the money to fund SSOL classes for those American citizens lazy enough to have never learned Spanish. Once we finally get a Hispanic president, then like a fast food restaurant, we’ll only employ congressmen of a similar background. That will be the day that this blog will have successfully helped convert the nation into……………….what? A larger version of Hoodbridge?