It isn’t all innocent and well-meaning. I see about every form of presidential mockery I can think of. There is Che Obama, Hitler Obama, Liar Obama, Treasonist Obama, Socialist Obama, Traitor Obama, Thief Obama, Joker Obama, Butt Obama….so many Obamas!!
And yes, the signs are all protected by free speech. No one said free speech has to be n good taste. The point of this short review is to bring back a few memories regarding behavior. No one was arrested, to my knowledge. No one stormed a bridge. This group seemed a little old for bridge stormin’. Perhaps in their younger days. The messages, however, were just as pointed and perhaps even more condemning.
Much of Friday was spent here with TPP trying to convince the readership that the TP was somehow more dignified and better behaved than the OWS crowd. That is probably true. I wasn’t really thinking of comparisons for real. Perhaps I should have. I still want to sit back and observe the OWS. The Republicans have already begun the words game of vilifying them and defining them. Far Left, dirty, socialist, Let’s wait and see. Right now this TP demonstration isn’t giving me a warm fuzzy either. I wouldn’t want to have to spend any time around either crowd.
Never saw a Tea Party sign that said “Eat Obama” That’s a new one for the OWS: “Eat the Rich” They could start by sticking a fork into their buddy and rally mate, George Soros, who has been busy of late evading the Dodd-Frank bill provisions aimed at hedge funds (which he pushed for in the first place, to top off this silly business) and then finally having his conviction in France for insider trading confirmed on appeal. George Soros and his MoveOn.org. Van Jones. Richard Trumka. SEIU. Ivy league professors — the same types who screwed Obama with their advice on economics — teaching classes on Econ 101 to the protesters. This thing becomes over-organized, divided, screwed up, and stale in about a week or two. Or whenever the free food runs out — whichever comes sooner.
I have never heard so many guilty parties in my life. Soros, ACORN, Obama,Va Jones, SEIU, Michael Moore, moveon.org, blah blah blah; all the demons are guilty and responsible for this demonstration uprising. I think I am going to ruin all the fun and simply ask you all to cite sources rather than being a repository for unverified rumor sources.
I would be laughing if I weren’t so amazed at the ability of you all to bring in all the demons, hang them, and blame the perceived left for demonstrations. How about those world monetary bank protesters? Anyone think they might have something to do with this? That is where I would put my money.
There is a a F$%# the Fed group also. I would think that would be popular with the tightie righties. I realize everyone is busy painting the coat of shame on the great unwashed though. Nice to see the open-mindness at work. Anyone want to wait for the facts to come in before solidifying your point of view? Didn’t think so.
Does poor behavior mean the group’s concerns are not legitimate?
So far I’m in favor of these protests insomuch as they are disrupting the economy in a few major cities, and causing the usual hygiene problems associated with liberal thought patterns. They brought Nancy Pelosi out of her burrow to perform some screechings the other day. Generally, anything that hastens the final act is “thumbs up” in my book.
I have written before that the world is divided into two types: producers and consumers. The producers are the entrepreneurs with new ideas and new products that create wealth and grow the economy. Steve Jobs was the consummate example. The consumers are the employees that work and benefit from successful producers.
I now see a third category, which is the dependents. There are now almost 50% who pay no income tax and/or receive federal payments.
The OWS crowd seems to be from the third category. Their mantra seems to be ….. provide us with more financial support and forgive what we already owe. In other words, let’s grow the dependent class and attack the producers to do it!!
I do agree with the OWS crowd that the federal bailouts of the banks and Wall Street should have never happened.
Kelly, is GE a dependent?
AAAaaaaahhhhh…..that WAS refreshing. Thanks.
Cargo, please don’t go around being proud of all those signs.
Kelly, I think those who use the products are the consumers. Jobs worked for a dollar a years. Unlike many of the filthy rich, he didn’t set himself up as a highly paid CEO or COO. Those who worked under him (and who made more than he did) were pruducers also.
The dependents are a problem. I will agree. What do we do about them? That is a challenge.
I don’t think you can assume that the OWS are dependents. Some are union workers that many conservatives despise. Some are food service workers who cannot find employment in their field of study. `Not really sure what everyone is. If I am not, I expect you aren’t either.
It is too easy to just dismiss people. That was done to many in my generation. Let’s create an enemy using our words to demonize them and to make them seem less important.
@pokie, what do you mean, ‘final act?’
Here’s something in honor of the false racism charges thrown at the TP by the media and the left:
http://www.qando.net/?p=11718
What? No stories about the “all white” Occupy Wall Street crowd?
@Censored bybvbl
Obviously, I am referring to people, not corporations.
To answer your point, corporations should not really be subject to income taxes, nor should they receive federal bailouts. The CEO should pay taxes; the shareholders should pay taxes; the employees should pay taxes. Corporate taxes, however, represent nothing more than costs that are either passed on to the consumer or absorbed in the form of fewer jobs/overseas jobs where the business model is more favorable.
Since you brought it up, GE is a perfect example. Jeffrey Immelt, GE CEO, is the head of Obama’s highly touted jobs council, but decided to move the headquarters of GE’s X-ray business to China. GE has decided it will “indefinitely” invest its prior-year earnings overseas in order to lower its tax rate. If corporate taxes were lowered (or abolished), there would be much less pressure to move these jobs overseas.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/obama-picks-jeffrey-immel-ge-jobs-overseas_n_812502.html
@kelly3406
GE has decided it will “indefinitely” invest its prior-year earnings overseas in order to lower its tax rate.
Or increase its profits or CEO’s bonus.
@Moon-howler
“Some are union workers that many conservatives despise.”
My gut tells me that I might be surprised about how many union workers feel they are conservative and/or members of a tea party group. I would suspect that it would be fairly high number, at least similar to the “general” population.
Most union members join because (a) they have to have the job; (b) for protection against unfair practices; (c) perhaps insurance and benefits; (d) legal representation. I don’t think it is because a union leadership supports this or that political interest. Most union workers know that a portion of their money may go to areas they don’t like or even care about as long as their basic needs are being met, a job and one that has some protection against unfair practices.
It is much like our government and taxes, I am sure everyone on this board dislikes some spending.
So to me, and only my personal opinion, I would not be so bold as to say that the TP and union EMPLOYEES are at odds with each other. I would think that it is possible that the TP and union MANAGEMENT may have conflict.
To believe that because the UAW supports a particular candidate, all auto workers vote that way would be a terrific mistake and miscalculation.
Nothing in politics has a simple yes/no answer.
@Clinton, I am generally bold. I actually would agree with you about union members at least in part. it also depends on where they are located. But, if you listen to TV or if you watched the public employees union uproar last February in Wisconsin and had been on our blog then, you would certainly understand what I meant by that statement.
Fox News generally speaks of unions like they are carriers of bubonic plague. And who are unions but their members. Even today I believe I heard the word thug applied. Some are, some aren’t. Some folks just want to go along to get along, or something like that.
First, I want to say that I am not part of any nor attended any events of a Tea Party. I am also not a coffee drinker–it tears up my stomach–I prefer soft drinks. Is there a Coke or Pepsi Party.
I replied to your post with your quote more to let people know what triggered my comment, not as a direct reply to your comment.
I don’t care what Fox News says or for that matter MSNBC. As a person with a degree in journalism, I can’t stand today’s “journalism”. I find today’s commentators to be full of themselves and they are selling extremist positions wearing the cloak of journalism. It disgusts me more than you can imagine. And it (and extremist politicians) are the very thing that is ripping at the fabric of our nation.
No one can be civil today because civil is never heard above the partisan clamor. So if one stakes out a position and yells it loud enough and with whatever lie one wants to attach, one gets heard. Sad, don’t you think? And if one can’t win on the arguments, one tries to show strength by sending in either numbers or intimidators. “Thugs” are universally used on either end of the political spectrum, especially when one doesn’t have the strength of argument or perceives not to have the strength of argument.
There is a huge difference between a union and the position it takes and union members. Sometimes they are in agreement but frankly sometimes they are not, but the rank and file accepts differences of opinion if they get their local issues taken care of, which was my only point.
And for the most part, I agree with that point. @Clinton. The journalism of today, isn’t journalism for the most part would be my opinion.
I also believe extremism is the root of many of the problems in this country. I also do not belong to a political party and I consider myself to be a moderate. I tend to go liberal on reproductive rights though and probably conservative on crime punishment. I generally support the police but also realize there are some bad apples out there and they tend to congregate on forces that turn a blind eye to that sort of thing.
I am a huge proponent of the separation of church and state.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html
I say let the Occupiers keep expressing themselves so that America can see what this left leaning agenda will provide to us.
I love it. Keep it up!!!
@marin,
You have made up your mind about it all. Don’t you think that is limiting?
All of your information has been filtered through someone else’s eyes.
Demonstrating is definitely for the young. Geez.
@Moon-howler
Short of going down there in person, how else should we make up our minds? I’ve seen and heard lots of coverage, and from a multitude of NFNRAoC (Non-Fox News Related Affiliated or Connected) sources. I think the picture of the protester defecating on the cruiser, and the piles and piles of trash, not to mention the fact that the park being occupied is private property and the protesters won’t even let the owners clean it, makes a pretty bold statement regarding “the movement”. Like I said in a previous thread, the lines are being drawn pretty tight for 2012. Put yourselves in the position of Mr & Mrs Mainstreet America, and how they view the OWS and their conduct, vs. the TEA Party and theirs….
Lets just go the facts at hand at start at a place where we can agree.
1) There was an ecnomic collapse that began with poor bank practices as the primary engine for this crisis
2)We have suffered an a severe recession
3)unemployoment is high
@Steve Thomas
You look at a variety of sources for starters, rather than going to your old usual sites that reaffirm what you think rather than letting you see several different points of view.
For instance, does anyone really think I like Fox News? No. I do not like it. but it is helpful, especially when running a blog, to see different points of view. I learned the bad habit of trying to see and understand others’ points of view at Mary Washington, back in the days when liberal arts was a good thing, not something to laugh at.
@Steve, I wish you had not spelled out what he was doing. You know, there are pigs everywhere. There are many groups of people representing different causes. Do I judge the entire tea party by the spitter? How about the gun signage person?
Of course not. Those are things that need to be discussed but the entire group of people out there shouldn’t be evaluated in terms of one jerk. I would have been perfectly willing to get out my broad brush and paint everyone as an overly indulged college student who hadn’t signed up for enough classes. Then I saw the plumbers union out there and some middle class, middle aged people. I honed in then and tried to find out more. I expect they dislike Mr. Cop Car Crapper as much as the rest of us do. They are luckier though. They don’t know all that is going on.
@Moon-howler
Moon,
Again, I am trying to make a point that your arguments, as well as those of Elena and some of the other rational though-left-of-center commentors here, sound an awful lot like those of us who have defended the TEA party and their efforts over the last few years. The TEA Party has been villified here and elsewhere, for their “behavior”, and no opportunity to create a linkage to the GOP passed up. So now we have the anti-TEA party: The OWS Movement.
Welcome to the world of Newtonian Physics, and the understanding that “equal and opposite reactions” occur in politics as well. The thing is, although not a true TEA Partier (I’m part of the GOP establishment, remember), I’d much rather get tarred with the same brush hitting the TEA party, than be a Democrat getting tarred with the OWS brush…it is the caricature of the left come alive.
@Steve, Not sure I am ready to call these people the anti-tea party. The jury is still out. I have not made up my mind what they are yet. Yea, the tea parties have been vilified here. I need for them to have someone responsible, a titular head or something rather than being 500 groups each doing their own thing. They have done about 100 things I really don’t approve of,, starting with bellowing, yelling and screaming during those town hall meetings 2 summers ago. However, I do try to be specific. As for linkage to the GOP, who would you link them to? Certainly not the Democrats. They are the same old people just wearing different hats, quite literally in some cases.
And from what I have seen, I would rather not get tarred with either brush. Hell, I don’t even want to get tarred with a GOP or a Democrat brush, although right now the D’s have pissed me off just a little less than the R’s have.
Apparently Richmond is supposed to be occupied next weekend.
Woohoo!
Popcorn time!
How much of the 50 percent who pay no taxes are children? Or the severely disabled? Does anyone know?
Excellent question, Emma. I wondered about the children myself. I think it is back down to 40% this year–I read that somewhere.
One thing I do know is that the unemployeed pay taxes on unemployment insurance which I think is just absurd.
@Moon-howler
Limiting, how? I *want* these people to continue doing what they do best. Destroying private property? Creating sanitation issues. Impacting working class people trying to get to work on a daily basis. God bless the First Amendment. Let them say what they want. Loud and proud!!
I want CNN to capture every moment of this. I want middle America to see it. I want them to have the largest microphone available.
In debate terms I’d let them make the case for me. I yield all my time to the Occupiers. 🙂
I just want to eat buttered popcorn and enjoy the freak show.
You say that like it’s a bad thing. Of course the company will locate itself where it can maximize profits. That’s exactly what shareholders demand. The government’s job is to make the regulatory/tax environment as attractive as possible so the company views the U.S. as the best place in the world to do business.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post_now/post/air-and-space-museum-closes-after-guards-clash-with-protesters/2011/10/08/gIQAx0x2VL_blog.html?hpid=z2
The Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum on the Mall was abruptly closed Saturday afternoon after a “large group of protesters” tried to push past security guards and enter the museum, Smithsonian spokeswoman Linda St. Thomas said.
When a security guard told them they could not enter, demonstrators pushed the guard outside and up against a wall, St. Thomas said. Another guard approached and pepper-sprayed one protester before D.C. police and U.S. Park Police were called, she said. One person was arrested, St. Thomas said.
Winning the hearts and minds of middle America and the independents……..
They should have been arrested. We (my huband and friends) were once at a demonstration and this gang of women who identified themselves as Amazon Lesbians ran in the mens room of the botanical gardens. They threw all the men out of the bathroom and said that they were commandeering the bathroom. It was a women’s march. Why would you alienate men who were standing up for women’s rights?
They were young, stupid and militant. Hopefully, they matured and learned a better way to express their politics. Young people have the energy but often lack the wisdom of their elders.
Air and Space was right to not let an unruly mob through the doors.
The Battle of Air and Space is the headline. I love it! Oh, and here’s an Occupy Wall St. demonstrator, the absolute pride of liberals, laying some cable on a cop car.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
It must be difficult for all my anti-tea-party friends from having their chests explode with pride!
Hmmm, I’m looking at this OWS dude busting a choad on a police car and I have to ask myself “Is **** * in New York this weekend?”
[Editor’s note: NO! Not an appropriate comment for this blog. I have seen that picture enough. It is not to go up again from anyone.]
I missed post #17.
Children are a tough number to find since often when it comes to a child and taxes, mostly it is dealing with a trust or a guardianship. I personally am glad there are people who go to school and learn the specifics about Child Tax Laws as that portion of the IRS Code is a toughy for the average person to figure out.
As for the disabled and students, latest number out of the Congressional Budget Office with relation to payment of Federal Income Tax is around 13% of the ones who do not pay Fed Income (now quoted as 47% versus the 50%). In part, it starts with they do not meet the income threshold for taxing since their income is so low. By the way, toss in the 17% who are age 65plus on Social Security who do not pay taxes.
The funny part in all the arguement about the people not paying taxes is, they do pay some form of it with Social Security & Medicare deducted. And where applicable, they are paying State & Local Income Taxes. Alas, my points are not good sound bites, so logic again gets smacked and shipped off to Outer Mongolia…LOL!
I do not agree that the economic collapse began with poor banking practices. It began with a change in government regulation that required banks/mortgage companies to make loans to high-risk/low-income people who were not previously eligible for mortgages.
@Ray Beverage Thanks for that I don’t know whom to trust anymore–I have a grad student and a college student who work hard but both make pittances, but somehow are lumped into the deadbeat 50% buzzword.
@Emma, that probably means that we need to take a closer look at who the 50% are rather than mentally classifying them as deadbeats. Surely college students, disabled and children should not be classifed as deadbeats just because they don’t pay federal taxes.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Amd on a similar topic, I wonder if people get off the deadbeat list if they had to pay taxes on the 401ks they cashed in as a hardship when they lost their jobs?
How about the fed tax money people pay on unexmployment?
I have decided that the 50% figure being bandied about is a sound byte that gives us a very skewed picture of what is really going on.
In the last year, I have seen my pay frozen and my investments raided, and now the talk is about raiding my retirement benefits. I could care less about the outlier spitters on one end of the spectrum and the cop-car shitters on the other, because the real core of America is getting screwed every day, and those are just handy distractions from all the wreckage. I have never felt more pessimistic about the vastly disparate two-class future we are hurtling towards every day, thanks to the Eric Cantors on one end and the Harry Reids on the other.
@Emma
Cheer!!! I think you have just spoken for many of us. The outliers are just there for distraction. I am tired of extremists who are using our backs to get elected and to acquire power. Go Emma Go!!! You go girl!!
I could get very violent over my retirement benefits. When you play be the rules that were in place,, and this new breed comes along and starts replanting the goal posts, I really resent the hell out of it and them.
@Emma
Emma,
Your students certainly are not deadbeats. There are certain times when it is perfectly appropriate to owe very little income tax. This has always been the case.
My point about the 50% (actually about 47%) is that the number is very large and getting larger. The US is rapidly reaching the point at which there will be more net benefits recipients than net taxpayers. At that point, the majority (i.e. net recipients) will no longer care what the tax rate imposed on the minority (i.e. taxpayers) is so long as their benefits continue uninterrupted.
But who are they and are children included in this percent?
The 47% number is defined as the percentage of “households” that do not pay federal income tax. So the answer is ‘No’, it does not include children.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm
It is interesting that this number has not been updated in two years.
I have seen an update since then @ Kelly. What I read, and I don’t remember where, was that it was back down to about 40%.
So if it doesnt include children, does that mean that no one under 18 is included?
You don’t actually believe it is down to 40%, do you? Nothing has changed to make the tax code less progressive. And with the poor economy, a smaller percentage is likely to be paying income tax, not larger. I greatly respect your knowledge, but I do not believe that 40% is close to correct.
@Kelly, I have no reason to not think it is true. Why would I believe 47% and not 40%? That isn’t something I believe or don’t believe. It is something I read somewhere. The reason it changed is because one subgroup was either included or not included. I just can’t recall. It must have been a fairly large group to have produced that kind of change.
@Moon-howler
LOL – I always get a kick out of people who love to tell others that they are “seeing things filtered thru others eyes” when others opinions don’t agree with their own.
Couldn’t the same thing be said about you? What are your opinions filtered thru?
@Red–could it be filtered through the storm door hitting you in the arse on the way out?
I make a point of checking out a variety of different sources from different sides of the political spectrum in a given day. Do I come away fair and balanced? Probably not but I guarantee I have more exposure to both sides than many contributors on here.
The first sentence was a warning to not come here and try to start a fight with me. Your question had an adversarial tone in it. Differing opinions are one thing. Getting snarky with me ..not so much.