Still fuming from a denial of federal aid for earthquake-battered Louisa County, Gov. Bob McDonnell has invited President Barack Obama to join him in Louisa next week during Obama’s swing-state bus tour.
McDonnell, chairman of the Republican Governors Association, wrote in a letter Tuesday to Obama that “it would benefit your administration to understand the devastation brought on by this historic earthquake, and to see how the community’s recovery will be hindered as a result of FEMA’s denial of important emergency relief funds.”
The Aug. 23 magnitude-5.8 earthquake that shook much of the East Coast was centered near Mineral.
The state was notified Friday that its request to the Federal Emergency Management Agency for assistance for residents of Louisa was turned down. The declaration would have made federal grants and low-interest loans as well as unemployment assistance and crisis counseling available to homeowners, renters and businesses.
Damage assessments for residential properties are nearly $15 million, mostly in uninsured costs, McDonnell said.
FEMA’s administrator said the agency determined that the damage to dwellings was not of such severity and magnitude that it is beyond the capabilities of the state, local governments and voluntary agencies.
The earthquake marked the second natural disaster for which McDonnell sought — and was denied — federal help. In May, FEMA turned down requests for help for areas hit by tornadoes in April, and McDonnell is appealing that decision as well.
Go get them, Governor McDonnell. I realize it is rare for me to side with McDonnell over much of anything but this time he has the Moon on his side. Virginia is getting screwed, not once but twice. The Mineral area was devastated. My friend who teaches at Louisa County High School says the school has been declared ‘totalled.’ The middle and high schools are on split shift at the middle school which was not destroyed in the earthquake. The high school goes Monday, Tuesday, Friday from 8-5 pm. The middle school attends Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday, same hours.
Very few homeowner insurance policies have earthquake coverage. Many homes and businesses were damaged, some fairly extensively. Who gets to eat the cost for these repairs? FEMA wants the state and local government to help with all these repairs. How unrealistic. Virginians pay federal taxes and we expect our people to have access to federal grants and low interest loans in times of disaster, whether than disaster is an earthquake, a tornado, hurricane, or other form of disaster. Virginians might want to remind the Obama administration of the sound butt whipping Floridians gave President George H. W. Bush after he didn’t do to suit them after Hurricane Andrew.
Governor McDonnell, stay on them. President Obama, come see for yourself. Federal grants and FEMA help should come to Virginia. They didn’t really mean to stop all spending.
I thought that hypocritical, stupid, old fool didn’t want any federal money! Why the change of heart?
He doesn’t want the bill probably. He has not been strident about the federal money actually.
McDonnell isn’t THAT old.
I guess the federal government CAN serve some role in states affairs afterall.
@Elena
They do.. Defense. 🙂
To McDonnell’s credit, he has not been a jerk about federal money. He gets it. He has a state to run.
” Virginians pay federal taxes and we expect our people to have access to federal grants and low interest loans in times of disaster, whether than disaster is an earthquake, a tornado, hurricane, or other form of disaster.”
Another way to look at this is, if Virginians weren’t paying so much in federal taxes, would they (or the state) have the funds to care for their matters themselves? If, insteading of providing federal services not mandated by the constitution, that money was allowed to stay in the pockets of the people who earned it, if the states were granted more leeway in how they prepare, in absence of federal “regulation”, would Gov. McDonnell have to be begging at the federal teat for funds? Interesting question I think. Debate now open! 🙂
I don’t play ‘what if’ and neither does Elena. Can we move past the federalist papers and in to the 21st century?
Another angle, Rednex would be; if people understood the risk of building on known flood areas and insurance or any other governmental assistance was unavailable to them — would they still build there?
Is flood insurance a moral hazard?
@marin
They really should not build where an earthquake might happen. God forbid they build where tornado might go. Those inconsiderate, irresponsible homeowners. Geez. [sarcasm button on]
Maybe all the other states should get federal grants and low interest loans except Virginia. After all, we aren’t supposed to get earthquakes and tornadoes.
Whose pocket are all the insurance companies in? Screwed there too.
http://hamptonroads.com/2011/10/another-lesson-virginia-way
This might help.
The Constutional Convention was a long time ago, I think it was decided then we needed a federal government to bring the colonies together, this was followed up by that thing called the civil war which I believe solidified the death knell of seperate states with seperate laws.
That is really an excellent editorial. I hope everyone reads it.
Another Lesson in the Virginia Way speaks to our needs and our continued civilized good manners rather than the political rudeness so rampant nowadays.
Thank you for posting it, Big Dog.
Elena – You are only partially correct.
Yes, the founding fathers saw a need for a LIMITED government to handle the affairs of the republic (republic being a key word here). They understood that certain activities, such as the engagment in treaties with foreign nations, national defense, settling disputes between the states, etc required a central body, but they also knew that a central controlling body could only lead to tyranny. They realized that the original constitution wording didn’t not adequately safeguard against this threat and it was for this reason that the founding fathers limited the central body to only 14 enumerated powers, with anything not EXPLICITLY and SPECIFICALLY called out being left to the states thru the bill of rights. And yes, the civil war did challenge to what bounds the states were able to control their own affairs, but the 10th ammendment was never struck down, it was never altered and is therefore still a part of the supreme law of this land.
“Can we move past the federalist papers and in to the 21st century?”
It always strikes me as curious when one demands more of the government, stating that it has an obligation to perform acts that are not allowed to it by the founding principals of which the said government was created. So, either you are for the constitution and the principals that birthed the greatest, fast rising, most prosperous nation the world has ever known, or you seek to abolish all the ideas that made it so and look to “tranformationally change” what this country is all about. It is diametrically opposing view points to claim that government has the authority to do things that are specifically denied to it by it’s creation, which is a root cause of the issues we face today. People look to claim authority where it is not there, using the constitution when it suits their purpose, but looking to nullify it/ignore it when it does not.
Lastly, if the constitution is not in keeping with the “21st century”, then the fathers also provided a method to adapt for the changing times via the ammendment process. However, they made this an extremely difficult proposition on purpose. If we were able to change the constitution at whim, a “living document” as you will, then our liberties and safeguards would quickly disappear. The reason for the balance of powers, the difficult ammendment process, and our whole system of government is to protect it’s people from having a top down, controlling tyranny, either by a person or a body of people. However, until that happens, it is still the law of this land.
Well, Elena, I guess you have been told!
Some of us feel that the Constitution is a living document. That is what makes it such a neat document.
Now, back to FEMA flicking us off, or isn’t that off limits for discussion?
@Moon-howler
The government givith and the government takith away…
That is why I try not to vote for people who want to take away individual personal rights. Silly me.
You and I just have very different ideas about which rights are important and which are not.
@marin
On the other hand, I would hope if I got leveled by an earthquake, my governor could appeal to FEMA for assistance to help me rebuild. FEMA must have used it all up on Katrina.
@ Moon
You can’t make a statement like “Can’t we just get past the federalist papers and move into the 21st century” then claim that I’ve went off topic. My question posed to the thread dealt with the FEMA issue and it was by comments made that I felt the need to go in direction I did. You took the conversation there, not me. 🙂
As for FEMA and Virginia, my question still remains. Again, we keep looking at trying to blame or “fix” the effects of policy, not go after what caused those effects. When your money is taken and then doled out at the whim of a bureaucracy, then you pretty much have to live by the decisions of that bureaucracy. As MarinM stated, the government givith and the government takith away. The only way to solve that is to hold on your property and use it as you see fit, unless of course, you are of the belief that those far removed from you and your circumstances know better what to do with your property than you do.
Ok, Rednex, let me be perfectly clear. I can claim anything I want as long as I am paying the bills. Kapish?
Secondly, I never claimed that you had GONE off topic.
Thirdly, please don’t come here and try to engage me in controversy. If I see something I want to comment on, I will. Otherwise, I won’t.
This blog is one of the few blogs around that where liberals, moderates and conservatives can peacefully co-exist. I don’t like signs of disturbing the equilibrium on here. I know Marin, Cargo and Pokie and therefore tend to put up with a little more of their guff. They know me and sometimes push the envelope. I don’t know you, therefore, I probably won’t be as tolerant. Just trying to be honest here.
@Moon-howler
“That is why I try not to vote for people who want to take away individual personal rights. Silly me.
You and I just have very different ideas about which rights are important and which are not.”
I think all rights are important. Where we disagree is that I believe citizens to be the sovereign and I think you believe government is.
Back to the topic of FEMA.. FEMA has established guidelines. If we meet them we should get a payback to the Commonwealth and if we don’t – we don’t.
FEMA has limited resources to provide. If we want FEMA to have more we need to cut something else in the budget – healthcare? Social security? Military? Pick one or a few but something has to give for FEMA to get something more.
You are deciding by your own rules how FEMA should act. It sounds like you are saying when they are out of money then that’s it. Most Americans really don’t want to live like that. If the roof blows off your house you fix it. You don’t just do without a roof.
Marin, I believe in balance. I don’t think all rights are equally important. I believe in balance. There are some thing the government is sovereign over because it acts in our stead. How could you think that I believe the government always gets to make decisions knowing how pro-choice I am. That is just bull crap. On the other hand, if you own a lot with river front, you don’t get to dump chemicals and sludge in the river because that violates the rest of our rights. But you knew that. To have an absence of government is anarchy. I find that unacceptable.
Rednex,
You sound like a member of the Federalist Society! It is an interesting condundrum in my opinion. I believe people like you are caught between a rock and a hard place. Who can be against the Civil Rights Act? What about Child Labor Laws? Is the Federal Government perfect, No, but as far as I can tell, it has served this nation well and allowed us to be a unique and great nation.
Take education for example, the Federal Government had to step in via Brown and the Topeka Board of Education, to integrate schools. Or a host of other supreme court decisions that have impacted the daily lives of Americans. To suggest that the framers were so UNenlightened as to create a document intended to remain static is not believable. These men were revolutionaries, but they were men, not G-ds.
We, as Americans own our future, and we must be able to address a much different world. The foundation is as true today as it was then, but with new technology, with the evolved rights of minorities and women, fluidity is required in order to survive.
I am not a Federalist, but you have a right to your rigid position.
One of my favorite quotes:
“The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in a storm.”
― Confucius
@Elena
The Civil War does not trump the Constitution, including the 10th Amendment.
That said, I don’t think any of it applies in this situation, except in the theoretical argument by Rednex.
It pretty much did trump the Constitution in a great many ways with a whole lot of troops to back up that trumping. @ Cargo
If some of you all had your way, we would have 500 amendments.
@Moon-howler
It is a living document. It grows. One just has to follow the procedures outlined in the rules to make it grow or change.
Wasn’t it Virginia’s own Cantor, who didn’t want to use govmt money for emergencies, unless same amount would be cut from something else to make up for it?
Exactly. I want him to explain that to his constituents. His congressional area is where the earthquake was.
I believe Virginia will get its FEMA bucks but Eric Cantor will have to squirm a little first.
I am not sure he is capable of squirming. He certainly is an unlikeable person.
FEMA reminds me of the rubber stamp I had made up in my Army Personnel Sergeant days that said “Disapproved. Resubmit in 90 days for final disapproval.” Mainly had it made on a whim one day after processing a stack of applications for discharges under various reasons.
But personally I think FEMA has shown it is beyond its purpose – the whole East Coast series of disasters has stretched its funding, and the National Flood Insurance program also is facing going belly up. Have a friend up in NH now six weeks after the flood…and FEMA paperwork is driving her nuts. That old 1890s home got hit hard when the river flooded.
Edit: should read “FEMA is beyond its usefulness…” The purpose had the right start, just typical government bureau after that.
Ray, I’m stealing the idea of that stamp.. I think it’ll make me popular at work.
“You are deciding by your own rules how FEMA should act. It sounds like you are saying when they are out of money then that’s it. Most Americans really don’t want to live like that. If the roof blows off your house you fix it. You don’t just do without a roof. ”
No, I’m not deciding what FEMA’s rules are or how they should act except to say that I expect the government to follow it’s own laws and rules. If FEMAs rules say they should do a payout then I expect them to do that. If their rules say don’t then I say don’t do it. As long as the rules are known and applied in a consistent manner…what’s the issue?
“On the other hand, if you own a lot with river front, you don’t get to dump chemicals and sludge in the river because that violates the rest of our rights. But you knew that. To have an absence of government is anarchy. I find that unacceptable.”
I would agree with Dr. Paul here and borrow his words out of laziness on my part.
“When one has a proper respect for property rights, environmental concerns
go away. In a society that respects the property of others, it is cause
for legal action if someone pollutes your land, or the water coming
across your property, or the air which floats above it. With a proper
respect for private property, people can and should be allowed to do
whatever they would like with their land – barring any restrictions they
agreed to when they purchased the land – up until the point that their
actions physically affect their neighbors.
So while a land owner may choose to build a big factory on his land, he
must be very careful to ensure that no harm comes to adjacent property
owners, or he will face the unmitigated wrath of those neighbors. In the
past, big businesses often colluded with government to allow them to
pollute their neighbors land, leaving the adjacent owners with devalued
property and no recourse.”
In a perfect world, I would agree. But alas, there are some real crumbs out there who want to put toilets in front yards and who dump all sorts of crap into streams and rivers. Therefore, we have to have regulations for the good of everyone.
Once again, I am reminded of the buffalo and how 2 years after the railroads went through, the buffalo was near extinction. It is great to have grandiose ideas but history tells us that those ideas quickly deflate when mankind enters the picture.
“But alas, there are some real crumbs out there who want to put toilets in front yards…”
..or just use police cruisers as toilets. 🙂
To the toilet in the front yard example I think this covers it from above, “…or the air which floats above it.”
“Once again, I am reminded of the buffalo and how 2 years after the railroads went through, the buffalo was near extinction.”
Wasn’t the govt complaisant in that slaughter?
HOw was the govt responsible for killing the buffalo? People bought excursion tickets on the railroad and did a little target practice from the trains. Using that rationale, then the Indians were responsible for the govt breaking treaties with them.
let’s go back to the topic which is FEMA denying Virginia help with tornado and earthquake damage. No one seems to mind. Perhaps it is because none of us had damage from either natural phenomena.
Why are we discussing someone’s private property when there are Virginians who have unaffordable property repairs not covered by insurance and their government thumbs its nose at them?
MH, if PBS is to be believed.. “The government did nothing to stop them, and even provided the hunters with free ammunition. ”
It’s not that people “don’t mind” its that FEMA has established rules. If we don’t meet the requirements then we appeal (which the Commonwealth is doing). Sometimes bad things happen to good people and like the federales said, the state or local charities can handle it.
Communities will come together after a disaster absent external help.
Moon,
You are arguing in a vaccum. There IS a role for government intervention. PERIOD!
Where’s Brownie when you need him?
Does anyone know what FEMA’s guidelines are or is everyone just flailing around in the dark? Interesting that while Cantor has badmouthed federal funding for disaster relief, he has been pressuring FEMA to take care of his district. I think we call that two-faced don’t we?
No, flailing here. I suppose McDonnell has a whole fleet of workers on the task.
@Moon-howler
Well, if I understand your answer, no one who has been posting about this REALLY knows what FEMA’s guidelines are. Is that correct? What I find most interesting is that this seems to be the pattern on many of the postings on other blogs also. People talk about something but then when questioned, they really don’t know the facts. They’re just blowing off steam.
That’s the beauty of blogging. No one has to know jack you know what. steam is good. Why would anyone go through thousands of pages of FEMA bs. The bottom line is that Virginia was turned down for earthquake damage. Apparently McDonnell thinks we qualify. He has the muscle and the worker bees to locate the data.
@Moon-howler
“The bottom line is that Virginia was turned down for earthquake damage.”
Well, if you don’t know why Virginia was turned down, what difference does it make? How many other places have been turned down for damage far worse than what happened here? I don’t know and neither does anyone else blogging on here know. So, if no one knows or cares, is it really important?
The governor has told the feds to stuff it quite often so maybe the feds are simply returning the favor.
Have you been to Mineral and Lousia County? If people have damages not covered by insurance they will need assistance to make repairs. The people who need the help are the ones who care. Actually the governor has worked well with the feds, all things considered. I would say most of the trouble is from the Attorney General.
I am not going to wade through 1000 pages of fema bull crap to run a blog. I care that people in my state have severe damages to their homes and they are being turned down for federal aid. You are free to not care.
You say, “If people have damages not covered by insurance they will need assistance to make repairs.” I say, “Oh, really?” Why is the federal government responsible? Is FEMA supposed to just knee jerk react to every “disaster” that comes along? The governor keeps touting how independent Virginia is but as soon as something happens, he is the first in line, standing there with his hand out. Something wrong with that–IMHO.
Did I say I didn’t care? I’m simply saying that when you put the damage in Virginia on the scale with Joplin, MO, they just don’t balance. I still maintain that understanding why Virginia was turned down is important–otherwise this whole conversation is meaningless.
Lest you think Virginia has been slighted by FEMA, here is a list of FEMA aid over the last half+ century: http://www.fema.gov/femaNews/disasterSearch.do
And for those that think FEMA has outlived its usefulness, take a look at this list: http://www.fema.gov/news/disasters.fema
Instead of damning FEMA, we should be thankful they are around–otherwise we would all be doing this on our own. I remember a huge flood in my hometown in 1951–we had 6+ feet of water in our home–no FEMA, no national flood insurance. Guess who did the job? Guess where the $$ came from? Any guesses?