A familar sign in the country side this time of year….
Open thread for the week. Remember the golden rule.
110 Thoughts to “Open Thread…………………………………….Sunday, October 16”
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- PW Conservation Alliance
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- The Jeffersoniad
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- You, Me and the Lamp Post
@Censored bybvbl Show me a picture or video where someone spat on a representative, and then we can have a reasonable dialogue. That was a single, unsubstantiated incident. The OWS outrages are numerous and well-documented, and all over the WaPo today.
They’re protesting “fat cats.” How long before one of those “fat cats”–someone’s wife, husband, mother, father, son, daughter, friend–is physically harmed because of a system that our politicians created, because someone has decided they make too much money? I have been listening and trying to get some coherency out of what the OWS folks are saying, because I agree with some of it, but there is an awful lot of violence potential with this gang, and it’s all over the news and the photographic evidence is plentiful. We’re not making it up. Stop the hypocrisy, when everyone who has read your comments saw you denouncing what you believed were the violent and thuggish elements of the Tea Party, and in some of the most drippingly insulting terms.
Censored, where is the smear? We’re commenting because we’re amused.
Please, really, show me ONE smear that I’ve said. Please tell me where I’ve called them something that they themselves have not proudly proclaimed.
@Censored bybvbl
I remember a great deal of denial and statements about if it wasn’t caught on video then it doesn’t exist, despite the words of 2 respectable congressmen being questioned.
I wonder what they did before the days of instant video.
Lie and deny. If one does it enough, it probably makes it true.
I’m with Cargo on this one—let OWS do what they’re doing, as long as no one is physically harmed. They have absolutely the same rights as the Tea Party, and, like the Tea Party, some of what they are saying is worth hearing. But in the end, they will be known by their associations. If the Tea Party is tarred forever by a single alleged incident of spitting, then let OWS be forever tarred by its numerous and well-documented acts of disobedience and mayhem, particularly against law-enforcement officers (who happen to be part of the 99%, btw) who are only trying to do their jobs and to keep everyone safe.
@Cargo
The entire paragraph was rude and labeling of people you really don’t know. It is obvious your exposure to demonstrations is limited. All sorts of people come out, almost as vendors, to events. They want exposure and to peddle their wares and pass out their papers.
The right enjoys photographing them as representative of the entire group. This has gone on for at least 40 years that I am aware of. I don’t have to pay attention to them or form an opinion. I don’t have to renounce them or accept them. When they cost me the same amount of money I lost because of the silly ass behavior of the tea party, they you will hear from me. They might, but so far,, they haven’t.
You are trying to use weasel words to pull back. It was perfectly obvious what you meant. So tell me you were praising the people. You obviously weren’t.
Why are you so stirred up over them? You don’t know them and they aren’t hurting you. They have as much right to make their ideas known as your darling tea party.
And you think you know all about me. You really don’t know jack about me. If anything is making me lean left is is revolusion by what I see with people like the tea party. The brinksmanship involved with the debt ceiling, regardless of what excuses are made, was ridiculous and cost me and many other Americans a lot of money. It was a foolish game to play. We all know exactly what the AAA was lowered and anyone who reads trades articles instead of right wing bs knows why it happened.
The fantasy is that you believe America is with you. No they are not. They just weren’t paying attention or taking it seriously. This is another example of simplist answers to very complex problems. Tri cornered hats and blind obsession with the constitution simply aren’t going to cut it in a modern world. Do the math. You won’t win a general election.
You are right about one thing. I will not ever vote for anyone associated with the tea party. And as for Republicans, when they return to real Republicans principles, I might very well vote for them. And for the record, I have probably voted for more Republicans in my life than you have. Right now, all I see are a bunch of sissy legislators who are afraid of losing their jobs.
@Emma
Actually, the only person who was tarred as a spitter was the person who did it.
The tea party was tarred by its refusal to admit that one person might have done something wrong. That was disgusting. One of the OWS organizer was man enough to apologize for something IF one of his people were involved. He didn’t continually lie and deny. That was the shame there.
Big difference.
@Emma
Our records are all here. Use the search function and bring them out. I will stand by what I have said.
I find it odd that the tea party has chosen to use the ows movement as their mirror image. If I were a tea partier, I would chose a different movement.
Actually, it’s the OWS movement that has compared itself to the Tea Party, which has also been widely reported. Here, for example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/protests-against-wall-street-and-joblessness-spread-across-nation-galvanized-by-arrests-in-ny/2011/10/04/gIQA6xV5JL_story.html
and
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/wall-street-protests-have-tea-party-potential-professor-says/2011/10/04/gIQAP1LcLL_story.html
@Emma, pretty interesting articles. Actually it appears that there are more mainstream people in there than I thought. Some of the people have some pretty realistic grievances. I am not sure who to direct them at.
My favorite sign has been the one in front of the NY Stock Exchange that said Jump You Bastards. A bit misplaced but amusing.
I have to disagree that the OWS movement is comparing itself to the tea party. Some people have said that. Some isn’t all or even close to all. I would say the first mistake is trying to put a head on this movement. It appears to be a bunch of tails swishing around, each with its own grievance. What am I missing?
You seem to think that you know all about me. My exposure to demonstrations are more recent than yours. You seem to want to put meaning to statements other than what I write. And why do you consider my labeling them as what they THEMSELVES declare themselves to be, rude?
I report on what THEY SAY. I reported what organizations stated. I reported what groups organized the demonstration.
Why is my repeating of THEIR labels rude? Where have I used “weasel words”? I write what I mean. Is it only when you lose money that you care about what’s happening? One of the listed demands is cancellation of all debt. Want that to happen? Have I stated ANYWHERE that they should NOT protest? Because AGAIN, you make statements as if I said that they don’t have a right to make their ideas known.
But, like the Tea Party, once you go public with your demands and actions, you are subject to public observation, comment, ridicule, or applause.
Stirred up? Why aren’t you stirred up by them? I’m amused by them. Of course, on the left, declarations of revolution, violence, bigotry, and actual violence are all just examples of youthful exuberance and fringe groups.
Again, it’s “the Tea Party’s all at fault for the debt ceiling”….boo frickn hoo. Believe what you want if if makes you feel better. I know what I’ve read from the ratings agencies. Their quotes. Their reasons. Notice that when I said that the ratings downgrade was caused by excess spending, I DID NOT single out the Democrats. Both parties committed political theater, and did not cut a dime. BOTH sides committed brinkmanship. Guess what? That’s called politics.
You lost money? I’ve lost my job because of the shenanigans of the politicians and the banks. I lost my job because the perfect storm of government interference with the lending, easy money, weak SEC oversight, ACORN/race hustling, and vote buying by the Democrats caused the housing market to bubble, then pop. I haven’t been able to get a job because hiring is flat. Demand is flat. The cost of hiring is about to skyrocket because of Obamacare. Democrat rhetoric and energy policy is killing jobs. Your accounts got hurt. MINE ARE GONE. I don’t have any more retirement accounts. True unemployment is at about 16%. Down here in Richmond, we don’t have the luxury of living of the gov’t largess.
Um,….we did win a general election. Republicans swept the field. We gained dominance in the House and gained in the Senate. Do I believe that America is with the Tea Party? Actually I don’t. I actually believe that the general populace is too ignorant of political affairs to care one way or the other. But a large section is with us. And some are with you. The mission of the Tea Party is to convince people to vote our way. Its not a done deal. Is it certain that a Republican will win the Presidency? No. But it seems to be leaning that way.
Why are all of you so upset about my comments since, apparently, they don’t apply to you. Yes, there are union members and Democrats here. But you don’t seem to support the extreme elements that have become the face of the #Occupy movement.
And while I don’t know them personally, their collective agendas WILL hurt me. Just listen to them and accept them at their word.
I have already told you why I don’t like comments like that. However, you chose to ignore me. The thing that bothers me the most is how you try to take it back in a way to show you weren’t offensive when really you were. I don’t come to these conclusions alone.
I expect your demonstration experience is limited based on what you say and your approxiamate age. Sorry to draw conclusions. It obviously doesn’t involve a variety of different groups or you would have known some of the things about the lefties. Also you have been more recently than I have. Maybe maybe not. But what does that have to do with it?
Let’s take it back to the beginning. Why did you feel the need to make the original comment where you lumped the union members, democrats, progressives in with the unpatriotic, socialists and nazis? Did you mean to compliment those various folks. You want them to stay. Well what do they all have to do with each other?
Let me be more blunt. Did it occur to you that someone might be offended or did it even matter?
Moon-howler, I think you and I and folks our age have seen a lot of protests by various groups in our lifetime. That may be the big difference. People who are forty and younger haven’t seen much on this scale before. Sure there were protests at inaugurations and against world banks and some animal rights and environmental protests. But they were small potatoes. This is new!!
Emma, who cares how the MSM labels groups? They have to come up with some spin for their news programs. They can’t just say an amorphous group of people are protesting on Wall Street day after day. They’ve got to try to make sense of it. May be too early to do that.
Cargo, go do a bit of research and come back and give us a lot of details about the Koch brothers and Dick Armey’s involvement in the tea party. Tell us about any anti-immigrant groups that might have attended TP rallies as well. When you dig that hard into your side, I’ll think you’re being unbiased.
Koch Brothers and Freedom Works does organize some of the Tea Parties. So what? I don’t get upset if you criticize them. Furthermore, as I wrote, if I…me.. saw such things as I described, I stated what I would do. I don’t ask others to do things that I would not do.
As for the anti-immigrant groups at rallies…are you talking about those groups that oppose ILLEGAL immigration and amnesty or anti-immigrant in general? Because this is what the Tea Party does: http://www.azfamily.com/news/Immigration-rally-gets-heated-when-neo-Nazi-group-shows-up-70120332.html and http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/11/16/69417/neo-nazis-tea-party/
Furthermore, where have I said that I’m unbiased. Everyone here knows that I’m partisan. I even admitted it in my above posts. But I notice that not one of you have answered my questions about HOW is it rude to talk about people and groups using their OWN NAMES for their groups. Not one of you have made any comments about the ideas behind the #OCCUPY groups except to say that I’m rude and blaming poor people.
Of course, to you Censored, the Tea Party is a racist, anti-immigrant organization because you don’t agree with the basic tenets of “cut spending, return to the Constitution, limited government, enforce the laws equally”. Of course, we racist bigots also support Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley, Bobby Jindal, and Herman Cain. The Tea Party must be voting for Herman Cain to hide our bigotry, right?
So, again, where have I smeared anyone? Where did I label anyone falsely? I know that the Koch Brothers are rich conservatives and that FreedomWorks helps organize Tea Party events. Been there, got the t-shirt. And that the agenda behind them agrees with the Tea Party. Oooohhh…the evil Koch brothers want to lessen government power.
But you’re apparently happy with President Obama and company being deeply involved with business, crony capitalism, and growing government power.
That might not be the best illustration of live and let live. I saw an anti immigration person try to grab the nazi’s banner. Now, as repugnant as Neo-Nazis are, in my mind, they do have free speech, much as it pains me to admit it. They had as much right to be there as the next guy, I guess. That’s part of the problem with free speech issues. Mr. Anti went up to Mr. Nazi and didn’t try to talk, he grabbed his banner of Hitler. Perhaps he should learn the art of turning one’s back.
Some of the ideas of the movement sound pretty good to me. Some of them sound ridiculous. I suppose it depends on who you talk to. It is many different folks coming together to voice their displeasure at the state of affairs, mainly the joblessness.
Perhaps the tea parties had ill timing. Most of us find it odd that they sprung up as soon as Obama took office and never challenged the careless disregard for spending under the Bush administration. I suppose they will have to live down their bad choice of timing by voting for Herman Cain.
And let me go on record as saying I would oppose a return to the constitution movement. What the hell does that mean? We have a living Constitution. If it weren’t,, then there would be no reason for a Supreme Court. It would be all spelled out, right there. Our Constitution is alive and well.
@Moon-howler
“Let’s take it back to the beginning. Why did you feel the need to make the original comment where you lumped the union members, democrats, progressives in with the unpatriotic, socialists and nazis? Did you mean to compliment those various folks. You want them to stay. Well what do they all have to do with each other?”
Let’s do that: “all gathered together under one banner, in a group whose face has been tarnished by bigots and violent attacks…
all endorsed by our current leadership of the Democratic party.”
Gathered under one banner. Those groups ARE gathered under the banner. None are objecting to the others.
I repeat: I put Democrats and Progressives in the group because there are Democrats and Progressives publicly supporting and endorsing the group, ie Pelosi AND Obama. They publicly endorsed the group and their actions. And have NOT said anything about the actions that discredit the group.
I put union members because there are union members marching in accord with communists and anarchists that publicly state that they want to dismantle the American way of life.
I throw the nazis in there because the nazis have publicly supported the group.
Those that have are not raving marxists, etc and are just regular people that have angry concerns are associating with people that are doing the “bad things.” Those things are NOT helping the cause of those that want “Wall St. reform.” If you associate with idiots and thugs, you will be considered part of their group.
You are judged partly by with whom you associate.
Please show me where I belittled anyone in that paragraph. All I said is that the people involved are the public face of the left.
Are you upset because I listed Democrats, Progressives, and Unions in with the low lifes? Were they there? Did they march with them? Did they object to any of the statements on the signs RIGHT NEXT TO THEM?
Why aren’t you upset with those portions of your group at associated with the low-lifes?
Why is it an insult for me to list the groups but not an insult to be seen associating with each other?
Are you upset because I said I wanted the #Occupy group to stay out there a long time, with the various associations? I am not a leftist. I am not a Democrat. If the Democrat party wants to discredit themselves by associating in a demonstration with nazis, communists, anarchists, etc, why would I want them to stop?
If skinheads and anarchists and the KKK openly associated with the Tea Party, on freaking TV and the internet, and the TP didn’t denounce them…..I WOULD. I would denounce the TP or at the least, express concern about the TP being discredited. Tell me that you would not point out that the TP was associating with ……. undesirables.
Yes. I mentioned the Democrats, etc. when I mentioned the others. THEY ARE THERE. Should I lie? Should I ignore the fact that members of a major party are associating with and endorsing a group that has these undesirables?
The OCCUPY demonstrations contain all of these people including non-political types that are just angry and want justice as they see it. But the most visible face is the one that makes the news. Perhaps its the Democrats/unions etc that are being used by the #OCCUPY movement.
Pretty good – makes you go “hmmmm..” http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2751014
@Cargosquid
Don’t pop a tonsil, Cargo!
@punchak
Had those out long ago. Still regret not getting the ice cream because my throat was so sore.
🙂
@Cargo, I cannot force you to see why what you said was offensive. You will just have to take my word for it. On this blog where people of all different stripes voice an opinion, it was offensive.
It sounds to me like free speech is only for those with whom you agree. Unless you are in a members only demonstration, you often have to deal with politics making strange bed fellows.
Suggestion: Rather than trying to find fault with every word out of the OW(L)S mouths, see what you agree with them on. Many people have voiced some pretty smart ideas. There is no reason at this point for the President to say anything negative about them. He can demand law and order without dissing any of them.
Frankly, as a person who is neither a tea person or an OW(L)S, if we go back to their nascency, one doesn’t look any more ridiculous than the other. I can relate to people being pissed off over joblessness than I can over being taxed enough already when federal taxes had come down rather than gone up. Now which makes the most sense to you?
But it really wasn’t about taxes. It was about lots of other things. Taxes was just the great ruse.
I didn’t march next to anyone. This is what I did this week: I avoided my MEA member who thinks that it would be in my best interest to join the union for a cool price of 551.00 per year out of pocket whilst living in an obvious non-union state. My medical deductibles have doubled. I just got a statement from from Lincoln Financial letting me know that I LOST $4415 this quarter from my retirement account. How am I supposed to make that up? No clue. A “friend” on FB sent out a statement I disagreed with (politically) and suddenly people/her friends inform me via their response to her that I’m a) I am communist b)I’m a socialist and c) they feel sorry for the children under my care because somehow I’m going to turn them into communist/socialists. THEN I get a big fat invite to Ecclesiatical court to testify for my BF per her annulment. So now, at this point I’m going to summon the plane to Fantasy island..the plane..the plane…WELCOME to Fantasy Island!!! (Corinthian leather?) I just have to go. Calgon take me away:) and all that. In the space of one week I’m done with politics, religion, and unions. I get Cargo, but I don’t.
I am not insensitive to joblessness. My household has certainly had its fair share. My husband had a career in sales. You could be salesman of the month and come in on Monday and get told to have to desk cleared out by COB. Change in business model etc.
Its rough on families and it only intensifies if you lose health coverage. We were fortunate that there were no pre-existing conditions. In each case my husband got right back on the horse, often taking a job that was ‘beneath him’ or geographically undesireable until something else came along.
That is why I at least hear to people who are up in arms over joblessness. Companies are sitting on all sorts of cash. Time for them to start hiring.
He went through his 401k at least once and his inheritance when the job market was slow. There are a few jobs that always seem open. School are always begging for substitutes. You won’t get rich but it is steady. Starbucks is a great place to work and they have great benefits. Health care is available if you work more than 20 hours a week. You might have to go a little out of your way but there is always a Starbucks somewhere.
@DB
So therefore it is a professional association which is tax deductible. I do hope you have tort insurance though. I wouldn’t walk in a classroom without it.
What is an eccleciastical court? Is that something I have missed out on?
The good news on the 401k is that you really only lost 76% of that amount.
I pay over $500 a month for health care. I think that is obscene. My deductions also have doubled.
It sounds like last week sucked. Call Chris!
@Moon-howler
Please show me where I said ANYTHING about what they said.
I said nothing about restricting their speech. NOTHING. You are putting words in my my mouth. AND I’ve already stated that there is some common ground, as have others.
Of course, you seem to have this bad habit, – example, “It was about lots of other things. Taxes was just the great ruse.” – of seeing things that are not there. You imply that I hate them or want to stop their message. You imply that I’m insulting you because I lumped your favorite groups with the offensive ones. Is it insulting that your groups ARE involved in a demonstration with the offensive groups? You are insulting me by treating it as if I’m too stupid to understand your reasoning. You won’t explain it.
I would still like an answer. You have stated that I was rude. You have made a blanket statement that I was offensive while all I did was point out that certain groups were associating with other offensive groups. And that the current political leaders had endorsed said TOTAL group, without paying attention to the offensiveness. I don’t expect you to force me to do anything. I expect you to answer my civil questions about why YOU found it offensive, as per a civil discussion. I’m accused of something that I did not do.
“Unless you are in a members only demonstration, you often have to deal with politics making strange bed fellows.” So you’re offended by my pointing out that your buddies have strange bed fellows, but not that your groups are actually IN BED with said fellows. So you’re ok with the situation. Fine. I really don’t care one way or another. I don’t care if the assorted groups are working together as I am not part of said groups. I just pointed out that they are together. You just didn’t like me pointing it out.
Seems like that happens a lot lately here. Double standards seem to be growing.
I find it rude and offensive that you imply that the TEA Party is lying about its motives. If its not about out of control government and spending, and the increased taxes that will come with that, what IS it about? Why don’t you come out and say what you mean? Do you mean to imply that Wolverine MarinM, and any other Tea Partiers and I are lying to you and the others? Please, be candid. Let us know where we stand.
“Frankly, as a person who is neither a tea person or an OW(L)S, if we go back to their nascency, one doesn’t look any more ridiculous than the other. I can relate to people being pissed off over joblessness than I can over being taxed enough already when federal taxes had come down rather than gone up. Now which makes the most sense to you?”
You keep separating them out. The Tea Party’s initial outrage was due to the heavy handedness of Congress and the out of control spending. The economy continues to worsen. Obama kept doing everything his ideology says to spread the wealth. The TP is gaining strength because of the crony capitalism, corruption, and marxist ideology shown by the current administration. The #occupy crowd has some valid points and some people with valid complaints. Those people are being overshadowed by the offensive groups and being used as cover to advance radical agendas. But…you know what…that’s ok. I hope they go for it. I’ve said it again and I’ll say it now….I want them to shout their messages to the rooftop.
Because I think that when all is said and done, the message of the TP will resonant farther than the messages put out by #Occupy groups, and that the incoherent and unAmerican messages put out by the assorted groups under the #OCCUPY banner, will be rejected by the average American voter. Perhaps in all their incoherence though, some of their message concerning crony capitalism and corruption will cause some of the liberals involved to stay home come election time.
Or….come check out the Tea Party. I mean…we had the message about corruption in Congress and the Executive first.
Here ya go…something we both might like
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576628673446417268.html
The guy’s from Canada. How partisan can he be?
Went back and read the comments…
Apparently pretty partisan…he’s naturalized and voted for Obama. The comments are interesting.
I had planned to attend this but my wife decided that we had other priorities. Heck, I didn’t even make it to the Folk Music Festival.
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2011/oct/16/12/tdmet02-occupy-richmond-protesters-march-downtown-ar-1387214/
They seem to be a nice bunch of people. SANE people. People with whom the Tea Party could do business……
So Herman Cain has suggested electrifying the border fence……I think I’m in love with a candidate!!!!
Cargo, did you ever think maybe you are identifying too closely with the tea party concept and that it is making you lose perspective?
This is perhaps the most unproductive conversation I have ever had. It isn’t an exchange. Regardless of what I say, you will justify whatever it is.
Meanwhile, please don’t insult people on the blog. I think I probably just need a break from my own blog.
If you know any sailors, know anyone that wants to become a SEAL, or just want to support the Navy….
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/act-of-valor.html#comments
I won’t. And I haven’t.
Sorry if you can’t see that. Perhaps I need a break too.
@Cargosquid
Actually you did say it by implication. Was it a direct quote, no. If you start trying to run off those with whom you do not agree, then you are attempting to restrict their 1st amendment rights. Now, that can be a very natural feeling to have. But, constitutionally it doesn’t fly.
I think if you apply the golden rule to what you originally said I think you will see why I, as the blog mistress, found it rude and offensive.
The goal of this blog is to be able to discuss local, state and national issues as they arrive. For instance, today Cornel West was arrested for something outside the Supreme Court building. He was protesting the huge amount of corporate money that goes to influence our legislators. Now, Cornel West and I don’t have much in common but I sure can agree with what he says. Just thinking back to the influence the drug companies had when Medicare D was being debated and eventually passed in Congress exemplifies how much influence the drug companies had.
Those are the kinds of discussions I would like to have on this blog.
Please, no more comments like the one that started this long conversation that involved many people.
As for my bad habits. Sorry about that. There is a solution to that…as I have told my husband for many years.
“Actually you did say it by implication.”
And yet, you still don’t understand. I am not trying to run off anyone, stifle any message, or smear anyone. How much more plain can I get? I listed political groups that ARE united under one banner. THEY ARE TOGETHER under the #OCCUPY banner.
My listing that is offensive? Its on the news. Proudly reported by themselves.
The Golden Rule: Treat others like you would like to be treated.
“But it really wasn’t about taxes. It was about lots of other things. Taxes was just the great ruse.”
So how does the Golden Rule apply there? You never answered me about what you really think. Do you think that Wolverine, MarinM, myself and others are lying? That we have some hidden agenda? That we’re closet racists that hates Obama because he’s “black?” Is that what you are implying?
So fine. no more comments pointing out the news. No more comments or criticism of Obama, Clinton, Jon Stewart, unions, Democrats, Progressives, etc. No criticism of any of your sacred cows.
And I still don’t see where I supposedly smeared someone. No one will answer me and show me a direct example.
I was discussing current events. Apparently this is a current event that should remain undiscussed.
Long ties to Koch brothers key to Cain’s campaign
By RYAN J. FOLEY – Associated Press | AP – 11 hrs
IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider, the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation’s capital. But Cain’s economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity.
Cain’s campaign manager and a number of aides have worked for Americans for Prosperity, or AFP, the advocacy group founded with support from billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, which lobbies for lower taxes and less government regulation and spending. Cain credits a businessman who served on an AFP advisory board with helping devise his “9-9-9” plan to rewrite the nation’s tax code. And his years of speaking at AFP events have given the businessman and radio host a network of loyal grassroots fans.
http://news.yahoo.com/long-ties-koch-brothers-key-cains-campaign-110518961.html;_ylt=AuTwnebwwTmqY1_jSTHGQm6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNqZ2ZrY3NyBGNjb2RlA2N0LmMEcGtnA2UyMDE5YzVmLTkxNjAtMzQxOC05ZjU0LWU0NzI5ZDQ1YTczZQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDbW9zdF9wb3B1bGFyBHZlcgM0MjAzNjdmMC1mODRiLTExZTAtYWRlZi1kODg4MGUwNWJlNzc-;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
Geeze – I am glad that I spent my day doing something constructive, and spending time with my family.
Did you have a nice weekend? Wasn’t the weather gorgeous?
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/299793#investigation
Rule 1 -“No provocation or challenging of spirits”.
Then they better stay away from Town Hall meetings and blogs.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/10/ron-paul-spending-cuts-/1
Hey, maybe we can get some Occupier support for this….
Paul, a longtime critic of federal spending not authorized by the Constitution, will call for eliminating the federal Education, Commerce, Energy, Interior, and Housing and Urban Development departments.
He’d also eliminate all foreign aid and spending on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and freeze government spending to 2006 levels — the last year that the GOP had complete control of establishing the federal budget.
The president’s pay would be cut to $39,336, which Paul’s campaign says is equivalent to the median personal income of an American worker, and the federal workforce would be cut by 10%. The president currently earns $400,000 a year.
Ron Paul obviously is an even bigger fool than I previously thought. In what alternate universe does he think his proposals are going to happen? He is simply wasting our time now. If all foreign aid were eliminated, who would step in to fill that vacuum? Something to think about. Foreign aid has always been used to control other countries into rejecting unacceptable forms of repressive governments in favor of democracy. It has worked in varying degrees.
What happens when you cut off foreign aid to Israel, just as an example? (not that it needs control to reject unacceptable forms of government.)
Why should the president have to use his/her own money while in office? I have no problem reducing federal paychecks moderately but from $400,000 to $40,000 is just plain absurd.
@marinm
Those ideas – and others – are why Paul will never be Prez. (I wonder what his proposed pay for a House Rep. or Senator would be.)
Congressional perks could be reined in and no one would whine. They still need to make enough money to be able to have adequate housing. Congress persons have to maintain a residence at home and they obviously have to have a place to live in Washington.
However, they could also have to live like regular federal employees with retirement, health care, etc.
Marin, are you also obsessed with the occupiers? Who really cares what they think about it?
I’m not obsessed. I want them to be front and center in the news everyday allday. I want people in Middle America to see what they’re saying and doing.
I want their message to be heard. Loud and proud.
I have ZERO problem with them getting all the press they want and deserve.
BTW, your wrong. Re-read the $40K part in #38 and look for your error.
I wonder how many thousands work for all those angencies that Paul would eliminate. Sounds like we are reverting back to the ole Dixie days of long ago………..Let anarchy reign? Every man for himself, hmmm, can we bring back child labor too?
@marin, how can an opinion be wrong? and YOU are wrong. your is possessive. You’re is the contraction form of the word.
Rude of me? yes. Rude of you? yes. If you are going to disagree with someone on this blog, tell them you beg to differ or you believe them to be in error. ‘Your wrong’ is just…well…rude. (and structurally incorrect.)
Ordinarily I wouldn’t point out grammar errors but when one is made telling me I am wrong, I simply cannot resist.
” have no problem reducing federal paychecks moderately but from $400,000 to $40,000 is just plain absurd.”
Federal paychecks aren’t being reduced (well outside of the ones being reduced to zero when the job is eliminated).
Dr. Paul was talking about the President’s salary.
I have no problem with you correcting my grammar or spelling and I don’t take it as an insult. Blame my public school education.
@marinm
Blame my public school education.
Don’t go there. You always have the opportunity to pick up a text book and learn. You’re a responsible adult.
No, I will blame you if you didn’t take advantage of what was available to you. You can lead a horse to water…but you can’t make them drink.
As for federal paychecks, I have no problem reducing federal pay somewhat. (Wasn’t it frozen recently?) Isn’t the President cut a federal check or does his pay come from a special fund not drawn on the govt?
I understand who Paul was talking about. Can I not include more than one thought when I respond? I find you tea party types setting more and more rules for us here on Moonhowlings.
@Censored bybvbl
So, don’t blame others for a fault of my own. Wow. That’s a VERY, VERY interesting concept. I wonder where else we can apply that………
MH, I have no illusions that this blog is your property and you set the rules. Sadly the rules are stacked against some and not applied in a consistent manner. But, I try and comply as I feel that I’m a guest ‘in your home’.
“No, I will blame you if you didn’t take advantage of what was available to you. You can lead a horse to water…but you can’t make them drink.”
That soooooooo explains welfare and government dependance that I could not have done a better job myself. Thank you.
So who is it that you think is getting a pass, marin? Who is the deck stacked against? Le’ts just bring it all out in the open and get it over with.
I feel very strongly that all kids can take advantage of what is offered to them or they can disregard it. My brother graduated from a high school that I sure wouldn’t want to send my kids to. It was in the country, resources were limited and the best and the brightest didn’t necessarily go there. Yet he went on the University of Virginia, and now has a PHD. Funny what one can do if it is important to them.
I surely didn’t always take what was offered. I left a lot on the table. However, I have never blamed my school for my academic definciences, (and I certainly have them)
I have no idea what you are talking about with welfare and government dependence. How is that part of the conversation?
I wanna become a SEAL…..does the 70 lbs of post-cigarette blubber matter?
THIS is how you quit a job: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A4UGtM4hDQ#!
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Actually that qualifies you for the sooper sekrit ELite Excellent FANtastic Tactics SEAL program, aka ELEFANT SEAL program.
@Moon-howler
I think Wolverine’s post sums it up.
“The other side of this coin is that our two blogmeisters would seem to be setting themselves up as arbiters of what is properly said about the President and what is not. Since they are the owners of the blog, that is their absolute right. But it does not mean that the posters must simply click heels and salute. I as a commentator cannot submit to a rule which says that I must follow certain opinion standards in order to get a nihil obstat on the content of my observations before I can appear in print. I am not an employee of this blog. I am a volunteer contributor. I have done my best to follow the dictates on the masthead. If I am engaging in name calling or ad hominem attacks against the subject of a post or against other posters, that is a legitimate cause for complaint and upbraiding. If anyone wishes to dispute what I have said on the merits of the content, that is fine. But imposition of a form of nihil obstat on opinions legitimately and honestly held comes far too close to censorship. That is not why I came to this blog. I refuse to write under a cloud of having to wonder whether or not the blogmeisters will label my opinions as eligible for print based on their own philosophical or political opinions or on their own standards of what is “policy” and what is not. In my opinion, that is not a workable arena.”
“I have no idea what you are talking about with welfare and government dependence. How is that part of the conversation?”
The part about me not blaming my public school teachers and that instead I should blame myself (personal responsibility). You and Censored made the point crystal clear on why we shouldn’t have social programs — because we should blame the person and hold him responsible for his actions.
I get misty just typing that out again. To get a twofur like that.
Marin, speak for yourself please.
Do you think if you submit a piece to the
Washington Post they are under obligation to post it? They are not. The article must conform to the type of newspaper they want to publish. That is the reality of publishing.
Elena and I set the standards we want to have here. Perhaps Wolverine needs to stick to his own fight since he was not a part of it. This is not the first time he has gotten involved when he did not know the full story. I certainly was not talking to him.
I am still not sure what you are talking about regarding schools and social programs. Do you consider school a social program? School have been a vital part of America for a long time–couple hundred years at least.
Save the mist and spell it out.
@marinm
The part about me not blaming my public school teachers and that instead I should blame myself (personal responsibility). You and Censored made the point crystal clear on why we shouldn’t have social programs — because we should blame the person and hold him responsible for his actions.
Bwahaha! That’s a simplistic answer if I ever heard one. At what point does a person assume responsibility for his life? At two? Five? Twelve? Fifteen? Twenty-one? Thirty-five? How about the kiddo with parents who are crackheads? Who teaches that kiddo responsibility? What about alcoholics? Most kids can experiment with alcohol in their teens without becoming addicted. What about the kid whose parents are alcoholics and hide the genetic predisposition from the kid? There are all sorts of trouble children can get into or are born into before they’re really capable of making informed choices. A death in the family or long hospitalization can send a family to social services asking for help.
But then you know all this. But, time doesn’t stand still and it has a way of kicking smug people in the ass. Welcome to the real world. Hope you never need any of those social services.