Joe Biden should be huffy. This young pup questions the use of the language? To answer his question, YES.
Crime incidence is clearly and measurably linked to number of available police officers. The more trained officers, the lower the crime rate is shown in case after case, in community after community throughout the United States.
According to the Huffington Post
WASHINGTON — Vice President Joe Biden doubled down Wednesday on his charge that rape and murder will rise if Congress fails to pass the American Jobs Act.
Minutes after addressing a firefighters rally in a Senate office building to push for passage of (at least) a $35 billion provision that would pay for the hiring of hundreds of thousands of police officers, teachers and firefighters, Biden was challenged by a reporter over his crime claims.
Biden insisted, “Murder will continue to rise. Rape will continue to rise. All crime will continue to rise.”
Conservatives have criticized Biden for linking crime rates to stimulus spending, saying the money was wasted on all sorts of things that had nothing to do with increasing safety.
But in this case, the vice president was making a much more direct link. Biden — who in the 1990s was one of the original authors of the COPS legislation, which led to the hiring of some 100,000 police officers — was arguing that cities and towns hammered by the economy would continue to cut police forces without the federal aid now sitting in the Senate. And fewer police officers would lead to more crime in these tough times.
“Police departments, as I said, in some cases [have been] literally cut in half, like Camden, N.J., and Flint, Mich.,” Biden said during the rally. “In many cities, the result has been — and it’s not unique — murder rates are up, robberies are up, rapes are up.”
“Ladies and gentlemen, the consequences of these losses are real, and they’re now,” Biden said. “But the interesting thing is, why I said this is simple — and I say to the press, this is very, very simple, man — there’s a solution. We can do something about it right now. It’s not rocket science. Right now.”
And that something, said Biden, is to pass the measure dubbed the Teachers and First Responders Back to Work Act.
At what point does something become a No Brainer, Republicans?
Read more on this important bill that the Senate has blocked twice at Huffington Post.
Who pays for the additional law-enforcement officers and firefighters after the jobs bill money dries up? It’s a short-sighted and politiically-motivated fix by the same folks who can’t even pass their own budget.
That same reasoning was used in PWC to not fund teachers. It was short sighted and very politically motivated to decline the money.
The bottom line on your question, Emma, is that someone will have to cough it up. You cannot do without police and firefighters and teachers. In some of these areas, you had better have them or you will have ghost towns because everyone will leave.
Then, by his reasoning, we need them now, anyway, even if we can’t afford it. Because there has been such an increase in rapes and murders.
And afterwards, when we borrow even more money from the VRS to pay for them, that’s ok. Because we can’t cut other funding, right? Who is supposed to cough up the EXTRA money to pay for all these jobs that were not figured into a state’s income stream?
Or we can fire them at the year’s end, which happens to be right at election time, and he gets to say….see, the big bad GOP wants to fire all you hard working people.
Where’s the money supposed to come from, even from the government? Please tell me what programs you want to cut so that we can fulfill the debt ceiling agreement and spend an extra 453 billion dollars.
The “jobs bill” is a scam.
Btw…crime has been dropping. http://www.qando.net/?p=11853
“Because, you know, there’s a direct correlation between murder, rape and the number of cops on the beat.
Except both murder and rape stats have been in a downward trend since 2006. In 2006 the murder rate per 100,000 was 5.7, rape 30.9.
In 2010 the rate for murder was 4.8 and rape 27.5. In the two intervening years, those numbers continued to fall. And we all know we’ve been in the recession for at least 3 years and there have been cutbacks in police during that time.
So, unsurprisingly Biden is wrong and is pushing a myth (they’ll “continue rising”) when in fact, the stats show a steady drop for the past 4 years.”
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
The little twit questioning Biden’s use of language!!!!
As Harry Potter would say, “Accio!” It’s the summoning charm. The money will come from “somewhere”
@cargosquid
Just out of curiosity, why would a federally program raid the VRS state pension fund for the money to do it? Is that a Republican fear tactic?
Why would you pull out the VRS?
@cargosquid
Murder and rape are generally considered untrendable because they are often crimes of passion.
How about Camden and Flynt? Did you check out those statistics? Overall murder and rape have been going down. Let’s keep it that way. If there is a recession in 2008, it takes a while for a police force to reduce to a noticable difference unless of course there are lay offs. Prince William still hasn’t fulfilled its promise to fire and rescue that it made when Kyle Wilson was killed. It probably shows up less with fire and rescue. In the classroom, you just get more kids per class. What it too many kids? In some classes, 25.
Don’t take my word for it. The more cops, the less crime, regardless of where you are. FBI stats bear this out as do local law enforcements nationwide.
Our cops here wanted more officers on the beat rather than equipment.
Murders and other large cases also pull in personnel so dangerous levels if there aren’t enough cops. Cops don’t get to go home.
Tell you what, we will take Richmond’s cop allowance. It doesn’t sound like you need it.
I love that Biden is defended here! Coolest thing ever! Here’s the REALLY good news! Biden wants to run in 2016!
Sez who? @pokie
Of course I like Biden. Why wouldn;t I like Biden?
As for the Jobs Bill, of course it wont pass. Why would Republicans, the Party of NO want to let anything through that might mean jobs. It hurts their chances in the election.
I like it though that Biden took on a little smart ass. I like it that he speaks the truth about crime, but what does it matter?
Where was all this worry over spending during the Bush years? I guess it was different money then.
Again, we voted for Republicans specifically to block Obama’s destruction of the economy. Watching Biden try to convince fourth-graders about the jobs bill is maybe the most classic video that exists documenting the Obama administration.
And we voted for Obama to mop up after 8 years of non-peace and non-prosperity. And mop up, it has been. The destruction has been too massive.
Pokie, it would have been pretty hard to destroy an economy any worse that it got destroyed before Obama was inaugurated without going back to the dust bowls of Oklahoma during the Depression.
You know if I were you, I wouldn’t have the nads to talk about a destroyed economy. Holy cow that took nads.
Has Obama been inaugurated yet?
@Moon-howler
I forgot…it’s Bush’s fault. It’ll be interesting to watch Obama try to sell “It’s Bush’s fault” over the next year. I think it’s a winning strategy!
You say Obama’s trying to clean up Bush’s mess and I’VE got nads? OK.
yup…he is trying. Not necessarily Bush’s mess but the recession mess, the war mess, that kinda stuff. Who else would be responsible for the clean up?
Now don’t get me wrong, here. Anytime Biden wants to openly bully the press, I’m in total support of it. Sends a clear message to the people. I didn’t want to seem like I disapproved!
Bwaaahahahahaha! Bully the press? That was totally funny. Good one, Pokie!
the only reason why Obama was elected into the Presidency is how the Republicans acted under their six years of the Presidency and Congressional control. Do you forget the K street scandal, the unfunded wars, and the collapse of the economy? Bush ran on stimulus funding right from the get go, and we are still using his (tax cuts) stimulus funding scheme – and looking back, the scheme did much harm to our economy. The only reason why Pelosi became speaker, was because of the Republican failure.
/rant/.
@Moon-howler
Because the “jobs” bill only hires those people for one year. Then the states have to find the money for the additional personell. And we don’t have it. Otherwise, they would be working NOW.
I brought out VRS because that’s where the state borrowed money before.
As for 8 years of non-peace and non-prosperity…… um…we had a 4.5% unemployment rate. The stock market and housing market were fine. Then the Democrats were elected. and in 2008, it all started going south. What knocked it over into a recession was the run on the bank that started the banking crisis, which, I’ve noticed NEITHER party has investigated.
We haven’t had a budget since 2009, but we’ve spent 5 trillion + dollars.
And that’s with a President that decried BUSH’S spending and promised to reign in spending. And he continues to say that he’s going to cut spending. I’m not going to hold my breath on that.
And the non-peace…really? How many more places are we fighting, and not because of the war? Libya? Uganda?
You brought up VRS because you figured it would piss me off. You might want to look at that loan and how it worked before using that as a trump card.
Yea, the housing market was just fine, wasn’t it. In the mighty words of Lynard Skynard
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/oct/19/letter-editor-unsafe-home-ar-1394596/
There was no single cause of the crash. There never is. You might want to check out the housing market in PWC 2007/2008. We had the most foreclosures of any area in the state. Again, no single reason there. Foreclosures make for bad mortgage packages.
Actually, I have never once heard Obama decry Bush’s spending. He said he inherited some problems which he did. He came to office in the middle of a severe recession. I see little value in blame but I will sure do it when that finger starts pointing.
No one here has claimed peace and prosperity under Obama. That was under Clinton. You know, when the baton was passed. The better part of me says that nothing lasts forever. I am just tired of the obstructionism and the finger pointing and stupid remarks like O’Connell made about his objective being to make Obama a 1 term president.
The jobs bill puts people to work, bolsters up public safety and education and it repairs infastructure. Sometimes you have to spend a little to get a little. Perhaps this isn’t the best time for belt tighting, especially if you thought the stock market and housing markets were fine. I would say the dow dropping over 800 points in one days is not a sound of a robust market.
I think it is legitimate to question where the money will come from to continue the jobs once created.
I think it is a legit question also. Maybe it will only be for a year or two but that is a year or two with enough cops and firefighters. Hopefully with people working the economy will be stimulated which will create more money for localities to take over this cost.
Or we can do nothing. We can just sit there and wring our hands and hold our heads up. What are the choices? Do something or nothing.
Cargo, I relistened. Biden specifically said Flynt. Maybe he knows something we don’t.
It’s so funny that it’s been documented many times over the last couple years.
Probably falls into the category of “news liberals don’t want to hear/know about”…..you know, the stuff on Fox News.
Well, he’s certainly doing a bang-up job!
What do YOU think he should have done to fix things? Where is that silver bullet?
You’ll see it inauguration day, 2012.
2013
Ah Pokie counts chicks before they hatch.
That election is light years away. Who knows what will happen between now and then. First you guys have to get a candidate. You gotta have one of those before you can send Obama packing.
Just sit back and watch it happen!
We’ve gotten away from the most critical point of this thread. When Joe Biden say’s “don’t screw with me” the obvious, shouldn’t-have-taken-the-dude-a-second-to-come-up-with-it answer is, of course: “Why on Earth NOT!?!?” Biden’s clearly the kind of guy who was place on the planet specifically TO screw with!
I have a feeling we have only seen a certain side of Joe.
I just had a refresher course in the mongoose and the cobra from a very dear friend. I think Joe was the mongoose. The cobra was blind-sided and then dissed.
That story goes along quite well with the scorpion and the frog and also the bug and the windshield.
I am still trying to figure out Romney and Perry. I think Romney was definitely the mongoose but I could be wrong. I just don’t know the characters well enough.
I just want to stop seeing Lindsay Graham on my TV. ewwwwww
I get it, so now not only will the Republicans push granny over a cliff, but they will support racists also. This is how children link relationships before they become mature enough to understand there are many more factors to a situation. Police presence does help prevent certain crimes, but if we flooded the streets with police, then many on the left would insist we’re creating a ‘Police State’. It’s been mentioned many times in the past whenever we talk about increased enforcement of any law. BTW, if police presence is important, then your OWS crowd is helping increase rape by pulling police away from their normal beats. That’s the Biden theory at work. Can’t have to both ways!
What racists are you supporting, SA? What ARE you talking about?
I don’t know anyone I think might be considered left who thinks adding more police to a force is creating a ‘police state.’ I think that term meant going around billy clubbing everyone for expressing their opinion. Its a behavior, not a number. How this is racist I will never figure out on my own so you might as well explain it.
“Creating a Police State” has not been discussed on this blog that i can recall. Refresh my memory.
MY OWS crowd? Since when have I claimed them? I want to hear what they have to say. I think they present an interesting movement. I haven’t sent them money or joined the club. I have countered CArgo when he condemns them in broad brush….but that’s about it. I have said if they behave they have a right to speech their mind.
Do I think some of them need to grow up? Yes. But youth and inexperience will always be overcome by age and treachery, each and every time.
I am glad to see younger people speaking their minds, especially about jobs. I am glad to see young people speaking out to the issue of flatlined salaries for a decade while the upper 1% salaries have soared exponentially. Glad they are doing it. I don’t have the energy.
Are you a 1%-er, SA?
Oooops, suppose to be rapists, not racists, but then you should have been able to figure that out.
I’m drawing a parallel between not hiring more police, and using the existing police for other than to stop crime including rape. Both could be viewed as detrimental to stopping rape as Biden has suggested, and supported by the left. Therefore the OWS crowd, by virtue of pulling police from their normal crime fighting duties, is causing an increase in same. Again, Biden’s theory not mine.
My fault. I should be able to tell the difference in rapists and racists. I will try harder.
It can never be denied that one group needing police pulls from police attending to crime. I suppose you could say that about any crowd that gathers.
What would you say if I made that comparison against a tea party rally? Who are some of your other favorite groups?
But, I do agree that OWS is pulling community resources. That is irrefutable.
I agree that any activity that draws police has the same consequences. It’s just that Biden is making statements purely for political purposes that makes it so hypocritical. Meaning that if you were truly concerned about a reduction of police presence, then you would bring up ALL situations for review, and not just the one where it would make the right look uncaring if they didn’t support the jobs bill. This also is a fact.
Some info from Flint and its crime rate:
Interestingly, Flint Police Chief Lock has repeatedly asserted that cuts in staffing had little effect on the crime rate.
As the Flint Journal reported in May: “Officials said the fact that 46 police officers were laid off last year had little to do with the escalating crime. Most of the crimes were between people that knew each other. ‘No matter how many officers we have, we can’t stop disputes between two people in their own homes,’ Lock said.”
Lock made a similar assertion in September, 2010, when FBI statistics were released showing violent crime in Flint had decreased in 2009. The Flint Journal reported: “A smaller police force doesn’t automatically mean more crime, said Flint police chief Alven Lock. ‘There’s been years when we had 300 officers and we still had more homicides,’ he said, referring to 1986, when he was in the homicide division and homicides hit an all-time high of 61.”
The link is not to argue about what Biden said or appropriateness, but to show where I got the above quote
@Cargo
So the Flint Police chief wants fewer officers? What an AH. This is a first. I have never heard a police chief say they wanted fewer officers. Is he bubba or what?
Perhaps he needs to come down and meet Chief Deane.
Actually, I am not so sure the chief is an AH. I think maybe the political opposition might claim that title. According to factcheck.org he supported the VPs statement.
What is the real point here? Flint, Michigan is an economically depressed area with a high crime rate. Looking at those crime states and comparing them to here, with a much larger population makes me shudder. 103 rapes? How many murders? They need more cops. This is one reason why I hate politics. Any area that has 103 rapes ever needs more cops. It shouldn’t be a gotcha moment.
Maybe that is ok for where you live Cargo, but people here would be demanding someone’s head if that were the case here. We have a population of 400,000 here in PWC. I am sure you have heard some of our local politicians ranting and raving about our crime, but its pretty much BS.
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=040074000390004611
In 2009 we had 11 murders and 57 rapes. We have over 500 sworn officers and nearly 400,000 population.
The point is that the Chief stated that the number of police officers to PREVENT crime was not that important, that the rate of crime was not dependent upon the number of cops. That’s all.
So, having more cops that they can’t pay for won’t be that important. If it was, its criminal not to cut somewhere else and get more now, without waiting for the feds to loan us money.
One of the other things is that that area also has stricter gun control.
So everything I just said must be irrelevant. Oh well, I am glad that Chief Deane doesn’t operate like that. Perhaps that is why he is chief for many years in PWC and not pounding a beat in Flint. He has vision.
There are other kinds of crime than murder. So people who know each other are kiling each other. How about robbery, rape, assault, battery,…are these all between acquaintances also? How about home invasion, car theft, drunk and disorderly. I wonder if they have enough cops to cover all those cases?
Around here, the chief, who is in charge of hiring, doesn’t have to go out and drum up the money himself. Chief Deane doesn’t go out there and call the BOCS cheap bastards, even if he is thinking it. He has a budget he must work with. He certainly is going to be politically smart.
If the Chief of Police in Flint really does think that the number of poice officers to prevent crime isn’t important, then perhaps he needs to be replaced. Everything I have ever read or heard about with crime prevention speaks of additional officers making the difference in not just jurisdictions but also in neighborhoods. Lighting and officers. Great combination.
Where is the quote?
As the Flint Journal reported in May: “Officials said the fact that 46 police officers were laid off last year had little to do with the escalating crime. Most of the crimes were between people that knew each other. ‘No matter how many officers we have, we can’t stop disputes between two people in their own homes,’ Lock said.”
It’s at my comment #41.
Thanks. So the remark had nothing to do with Joe Biden. What was he asked to elicit this kind of a response?
Losing 46 officers is going to impact a police force. Any time cops have to investigate a big crime, people are pulled off their normal jobs within the dept. I am trying to figure out why he was minimizing the loss of 46 officers. I am just imagining what Chief Deane or Chief Skinner would have to say about losing that many sworn officers. They don’t grumble externally because both understand the chain of command…but in private….wouldn’t want to be there.