I really haven’t minded killing terrorists. I think that is why we have spent about 10 years at war, ringing up billions of tax dollars belonging to the American people–to rid of world of terrorists. Gaddafi was a terrorist. He has been a terrorist my entire adult life. Just because the United States eased up on him a little makes him no less a terrorist and I truly believe he had a paw print on the Lockabie terrorist attack.
Now, having said all that, no, I don’t mind that he was killed and no I don’t mind that he met the business end of one of our drones. I don’t believe that us being involved made droning him a political assassination.
I do believe what I saw on TV was wrong. I know when I first started watching the video clip, he was alive. Words were coming out of his mouth. I don’t know what they meant but they were his words. Then I saw his assassination and his body desecrated. I saw him kicked and spat on in death. That is taking it too far. Is that was all this war was about? It appears to me that we have gone from bad to worse. Those killers were animals. Have we turned over an entire country to people who behave like this and defile others in death? Might as well have kept Gaddafi. At least he pretended to have a modicum of civility. The Libyans we saw on TV finishing off their leader for decades represent an evil side of mankind. If that is sharia law, let’s just stick with anarchy or dictators.
One) I don’t care that he was killed or how. HIS people did it. It’s on them
Two) Dead terrorists are a good thing.)
Three) I do believe that our involvement was illegal under American law.
Four) No one is going to follow up on any possible violations of the law.
Five) None of the above matters.
Except for Two.
Oh, and I just read…it wasn’t one of our drones that prevented his escape. He was hit by an French air strike.
So, apparently, we didn’t have anything to do with this one.
Yeah, they weren’t real sure who did what at first. Everybody was shooting at everything, so nobody knew who shot what. The pictures on TV weren’t that bad, truth be told. The Romanians did their leader and his wife in a number of years back, and that video is all over the place (the firing squad). Now Daniel Pearl getting his head sawed off with a butter knife? That messed me up for a few days. That was tough to watch.
Obama nailed Gadafi, as well as Osama bin Laden and that other American Muslim guy in Yemen. He has been and outstanding CINC, far better than George Bush, Don Rumsfeld and the rest of those repug fools who couldn’t nail anybody.
Now we can declare Mission Accomplished, bastards!
Yes, Libyans did it. That doesn’t give me warm fuzzies. That was brutal and animal-like. Could they have at least tried him in the basest of kangaroo courts? Does it concern you that is the new shores of Tripoli?
It appears that we have rplaced dictator terrorist with anarchist terrorist.
I do not believe our involvement was illegal under American Law unless you want to throw in a lot of other actions. But I would expect no less since it was under Obama. You did not disappoint.
@Moon-howler
I find it hard to be very judgemental about people who have been under the thumb of one of the world’s worst dictators for more than 40 years. And I think it is too early to say that, “…we have replaced [a] dictator terrorist with [an] anarchist terrorist.” We don’t know who is going to replace Ghadaffi and when you compare how they have maintained some sense of order, as opposed to what happened in Iraq, I’m with Cargo for once of the few times, “Deaad terrorists are a good thing.” Sic Semper Tyrannis.
@George
I am not sorry he is dead. I am sorry that people turn in to animals. What I saw on the film footage is just not what most Americans do.
What I saw in the middle of the night was pretty bad, pokie. Not sure what you saw. It wasn’t day time TV.
Is this a new conspiracy? Obama didn’t kill Qaddafi? is that a no-killer theory?
How do we prove who killed the big G?
Oh, BTW, does anyone on here besides me remember the pictures of Benito Mussolini and his mistress Clara Petacci, after he was killed by Italian partisans? Maybe not–you gotta be really old. However, he and his Clara were strung up, upside down on display to the world. Nobody seemed to give a damn then and I sure don’t now.
[incorrect link taken down]
Wrong link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vel-OeI_bgk
Moon-please take down the tea party link. Thanx. GSH
@Moon-howler
I would have said that it was illegal under any President. I’ve said this previously. He did NOT get Congressional approval for an act of war. Then he ignored the limitations of the War Powers act.
Just because Obama did it, doesn’t mean my criticism may not be valid.
As for a trial, etc….that would have been good.
But then, many on the conservative side have stated that the “rebels” are the good guys either…..We shouldn’t have been involved at all.
@George S. Harris
Done. That was a vile link. Is it any wonder that people like me are more than a little disgusted with the Tea Party. It seems more like the obstructionist name calling party if that link was any example.
You have to go all the way back to WWII, Cargo, if you are using that criteria. Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Persian Gulf, etc were not declared wars.
Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Bush, Reagan all had wars that weren’t declared wars.
Show a woman’s nipple and all hell breaks out
Show a man’s all shot to hell with blood all over – it’s OK
… a man’s head….
ask the families of the tortured Libyan’s if they think justice was done with Kadafi. They showed Kadafi more respect than he did to his enemies.
I don’t think how we treat the dead has as much to do with them as it does with us. The footage I saw showed G all shot up and begging for his life. Then his death and his body being shown and kicked, his face all contorted. That speaks much more of his killers than it does of him.
A law professor that I’ve known for several years did an op-ed today entitled “Gaddafi’s Demise and the Law of War.” It’s at: http://jurist.org/forum/2011/10/laurie-blank-gaddafi-demise.php
@Moon-howler
The Tea Party link was a mistake–I wanted to put up the link about Mussolini to show how people can and do react. And don’t ever believe that Americans are not capable of similar things–you should have been in Vietnam–ears and fingers were favorite trophies of some Americans. And similar things happened in WWII and Korea. Mutilation of the dead is nothing new. Killing of prisoners is nothing new. We just don’t talk about it much in polite circles.
What you have to try and understand is the 40+ years of pent up anger–none of us have one scintilla of a clue as to what that must be like.
@George S. Harris
I have actually seen ears and fingers, although not by choice. In fact, I have seen a couple of different people with their trophies. They were usually drunk and boisterous and wanting us to see their spoils of war. I also realize that this ‘right of passage’ didn’t involve everyone. And yes that was one of the things that made me go EEEWWWW over the years.
I don’t know what makes people turn animal once a person is dead. Why are some people repulsed by it and others not? What makes a mother forgive her teenage son’s killer? What makes old men who had been sworn enemies in their youth reach across the former battle lines at a First Manassas or Gettysburg Jubilee and embrace the guy they had fired at years before? I don’t know.
I know I was repulsed by what I saw on TV. Perhaps some things just aren’t for American TV. I do know that when I start feeling the least bit complacent about 9/11 I go to youtube and watch a few of those people free-falling from tower 1, just to renew my anger.
@Morris Davis
Thanks Moe. Yes, there are rules that seem to transcend time and place.
Actually, not for what I’m talking about. In this case, Obama did not even CONSULT with Congress. And when the War Powers Act limitations arrived, he ignored them. And Congress let him do it, like the cowards that they are.
Presidents are allowed limited use of the military. Then they have to answer to Congress.
How about Reagan in Grenada and the middle east? He didn’t involve Congress. Many presidents, especially in more recent times, have bypassed Congress. If you went to Congress now, regardless of what you wanted, it would be no. Why even bother.
Bush didn’t get Congressional approval for Panama either.
Clinton didn’t get approval for the skuds either, I don’t think.
Obama won the Iraq war.
Reagan did notify Congress. AND it was over before the War Powers Act kicked in, in Grenada.
And the Middle East? Lebanon? Libya? Short durations also.
Panama…little known fact. Noriega declared on international TV that he considered that there was a state of war between Panama and the US.
Clinton…nope. No approval.
But…in each of your cases…if they did NOT get approval, they were in the wrong. Just because one President does it, does not mean that it’s allowed in all cases.
How long do you think we would have to wait for this congress to do ANYTHING?
I believe Reagan might have notified congress after the fact. He did not go to them for permission, nor did he have to. Americans were in danger, or so he said. Duration really doesn’t have anything to do with it.
How about Vietnam? Now there’s an interesting one.
Funny how its just the Democrats (Clinton and Obama) who are wrong. Why Cargo, your partisan roots are showing.
I am rather curious about this international TV.
Let’s shorten this. Democrats bad. Republicans good.
You brought up Clinton. He bombed the Balkans. And I did not say that he was wrong, only that he did not get approval for his actions. BUT he did not violate the War Powers Act. I think that he DID NOT have the leeway to commit acts of war against the Balkans. But, he did not act illegally at that time.
Obama, at this time is the only one that I feel has blatantly acted illegally. But its moot. Its up to Congress to enforce its own rules. And Congress is cowardly. And actions that they take, they have to be responsible for. God forbid that any of their decisions come back to haunt them.
I may disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of things, but at least he stands up for his principles.
Thanks for injecting a bit of sanity into what looks like an unseemly celebration of mob violence, Moon. As vile as Ghaddafi was, the footage was still very disturbing. The man was already in custody. There is a vast difference between execution and cold-blooded mob murder. Is that going to be the kind of justice we now cheer?
Totally agree with you, Emma. He was in custody, pleading for his life. Kangaroo Court would have been better than mob mentality. I found it incredibly disturbing and nothing to cheer about. It became more of an indictment of his captors than it did of him, in the end.
@Moon-howler
Agree totally.