There has been an on-going discussion on this blog about political parties, who belongs to which, and what our respective obligations are to a political party.  It is  safe to say that there are a fair number of Republicans on here.  Some people are tea party Republicans, some folks are fiscal conservative Reagan-type Republicans, and some are generic Republicans. 

There don’t seem to be card-carrying Democrats here but there are quite a few people who tend to be democratic supporters and voters.  I was once an informal Republican and later became a card-carrying Democrat.  Occasionally there were people chosen locally, state, or on the national evel who were just bad actors.  I ran in to some folks I simply couldn’t vote for.   So what do you do?   I am an Independent now and have been for probably 20 years.  I have no party localities. 

Steve feels it is a matter of principle to vote for a Republican, since he is also an officer in the City organization.  Is there a point where you shouldn’t just vote for party and should follow your conscience?  What earmarks should we look for?  It almost seems like we could end up electing the next Hitler if we don’t have some mental stops in place. 

Certainly both parties have had their share of people who really should not have had the public trust.  I am not sure we can trust the public or those in political parties to always exercise the best judgement.  Power corrupts and winning an election really is about power. 

Then there are the detractors and the distractors, the pledges, the sub-groups and the third parties.  Are those deal breakers?  Spoilers?  Can a sub-group destroy a political party by changing the complexion and tenor of the parent group?  At what point can a political party send a sub-group packing?  Does anyone want the Klan to join up with their party?  How about the black panthers?  Both of those sub-groups are extremist to me and to most others.  But what about when we don’t see our group as extremist?  Are we the best judges in this case?  Does the main party have the right to ask these groups to leave or at least distance themselves?

It’s something to talk about.  We have all skirted around some of these issues.  Let’s butt heads with this one. (gently of course)

83 Thoughts to “At what point do we discard the party promises?”

  1. Steve Thomas

    Lafayette, I think our responses are a bit out of sink. read my last. I am agreeing with you.

  2. Lafayette

    @Steve Thomas
    Run for Chairman…good one. I can’t argue that point one bit. 👿
    So when I’m no longer upside down and move to the city. I take it by your comment I would be welcomed there at the MGOP. 🙂

    I

  3. Steve Thomas

    @Censored bybvbl
    Barrak Obama won CoM. Mark Warner won CoM. Chuck Colgan routinely wins the City. There’s plenty of Democrats in the city. There’s just no functioning party. Sure, they have a party, but they don’t put anyone up for election, and have chosen to incorporate and focus on Manassas Park. Charlie Sturms was the last Democrat to seek City office, running for Mayor. The fact that the City Council is 5 “R”‘s and 1 “I” indicates that at least on the local level, most people are pretty satisfied with the government. No Democrat is passionate enough to run. Also, if you look at the make up of the council, there are moderates and conservatives, so the MGOP can’t be accused of being either…we have both.

  4. Steve Thomas

    @Lafayette
    We are a big tent. Of course.

  5. Lafayette

    Steve Thomas :Lafayette, I think our responses are a bit out of sink. read my last. I am agreeing with you.

    I think we’ve posting at the same time and we got out of order in comments. I see we are on the “same page” now.

  6. Censored bybvbl

    @Steve Thomas

    I mean that actual card-carrying party members are probably a small portion of the people who self identify as Republican or Democratic voters. I’ve found it’s hard to get people to join any club – garden, political or otherwise – too many demands on people’s time and wallets in these traffic-clogged ‘burbs.

  7. Sorry to be so late to the party, but being an Old School Democrat I’ve been busy trying to get my 20 Democratic candidates elected in the County.

    I am a Democrat and proud of it. I like all of my Government bennies (especially since I earned them over the past nearly 50 years) my Medicare, my Social Security, my VRS pension, my ability to deduct the interest on my home (more Socialism), my party’s position on Civil Rights, the environment, protecting a woman’s right to manage her own health issues, and a lot of the rest of the things D in the world.

    My party is by no means a perfect group, but change comes slowly, especially with the power of the incumbent and “The Corporate Citizen”, but what you gonna do? Quit? Not me. I’m gonna continue to fight for that change. Work for the things I value.

    And I also know that this blog is what the American conversation about our whole lives should be. The women in charge here have really raised the bar.

    Bruce Roemmelt

  8. 58 comments while I have been gone. I am glad to see everyone participating. I hope you all found this an interesting topic. Now to go back and catch up.

  9. @Lafayette

    Point of order!!!! Who will ever forget it. I laugh to myself now, just thinking about it. Thanks for the memories, Laf.

  10. Steve Thomas

    @Censored bybvbl
    I would agree that the membership of the committee is small, in comparison to actual Rebublican voters and suspect the same dynamic applies to the Democrats as well.

  11. Lafayette

    Moon-howler :58 comments while I have been gone. I am glad to see everyone participating. I hope you all found this an interesting topic. Now to go back and catch up.

    See what happens when the cat’s away…the mice will play. A couple of threads had a good participation in your absence. 👿

    1. Perhaps I should stay away more often which would also include putting up said threads. Any volunteers?

  12. Cargosquid

    @Censored bybvbl
    The Republicans should be thankful that they’re getting the opinion of a larger community – one which will vote in the general election for a candidate that they can support.

    Yeah….how’d that work out for them during the last presidential election? McCain was the result of that situation. There was a huge crossover in the open primaries of “moderates” and “independents” that then voted for the Democrats after they helped choose a candidate rejected by the base.

  13. @Steve Thomas
    I am coming to the party real late today. I think the fact that you can have firehouse primaries keeps it clean, unless of course, someone calls for a general primary. I prefer to not register by party.

    Because I vote in primaries, I always get an application for convention. I don’t like the rules so I never participate. It requires a pledge of sorts…as Steve said, to support the party selections. Well, that is the reason I went back to being an Independent.

    The point now becomes, at what point does a person feel that they must refuse to vote for their party’s nominee?

    Do any states in the south register by party?

  14. @Steve Thomas

    Local elections are definitely held by R’s rather than D’s in both the City and the County.

    When I made my original comment about having to call up to find out how was running in my district, I need to point out that Bruce was not county chair. Someone else was.

  15. @Cargosquid

    Cargo,

    in your dreams. The primary day was for both parties. Why would a Democrat want to throw away their vote to bring in McCain. That is just a crock. Who do you think would have made out better in a general election than McCain? He was chosen by the people who affiliate themselves with the Republican party.

    I believe most states have a primary day and you just go in and tell them if you want to vote R or D. You might want to modify your reason after thinking about what happened here in VA. I totally disagree that McCain came about that way. I thought he was selected at the national R convention based on the primary votes.

  16. @Bruce Roemmelt

    Bruce, thank you for your kind words and thank you and the others for being here.

  17. To all, if we always vote along party lines, what keeps us from electing a Mousalini (sp) or a Hitler? How bad would a candidate have to be to make you violate the ‘oath?’

  18. Censored bybvbl

    @Cargosquid

    McCain, a candidate with a broad base, might have won had he not made a fatal mistake – PALIN. You can’t blame that on the primaries.

    1. @Censored

      Totally agree. Palin was a deal breaker for the moderates who might have voted for McCain.

      I still say no one is going to throw their own vote away on primary day just to play ‘gotcha.’ They might do that if their own party didn’t have a primary but that was not the case in 2004 or 2008. You had to declare which primary you were going to vote in at the polls.

  19. Steve Thomas

    @Moon-howler
    Moon, If the nominee were that bad that I couldn’t vote for them, I could either stay home, cast no vote at all, or leave the party.

    1. @Steve, casting no vote in that category seems like an ok solution. I didn’t think you would do that though.

  20. Steve Thomas

    @Moon-howler
    And I could make the same argument that many conservatives only voted for McCain, because of Palin. That’s the purpose of choosing a running mate who is very different from the Nominee. It balances the ticket.

    1. Yes, you could make that claim and we would probably both never really know for sure. I know many moderates who found Palin to be a deal breaker. Remember that Rev. Wright was a deal breaker on the other side.

      Moderates had choices. Where were the conservatives who didn’t like McCain really going to go? Who else were they going to vote for? I doubt if they considered Obama.

      There were lots of ways to ‘balance the ticket’ that didn’t have moderates shrieking with horror which the Palin selection did. Actually, I am trying to think of what McCain was not conservative over. The only thing I can think of was immigration reform and his daughter Meghan.

  21. Cargosquid

    “I thought he was selected at the national R convention based on the primary votes.”

    Absolutely. Votes in open primaries. And the democrats admitted to doing that. Those that did, did not care which of the Democrats got in. So they used their vote to influence who their opponent would be.

    And McCain would not have gotten as many votes as he did without Palin, since he belatedly realized that his disregard for the base was costing him the election. I almost did not vote. Palin was what got me to the poll for McCain. If he had picked another liberal I would not have voted for President. Why vote when both choices suck and will get you to the same place? At least with Palin as VP, one realized that McCain is an old man…….if you get what I mean……

    Primaries should be closed.

    1. And the democrats admitted to doing that.

      Bull pucky. Prove it. Otherwise, you have heard that old expression about just whistling Dixie….

      Most states had a primary day. Why on earth would anyone have 2 different election days? Why on earth would I cast away my Hillary vote in favor of throwing off the Republicans? For every one of you who was captured by whatever with the lovely Ms Palin, there were 2 moderates decided to go Democrat.

      In fact, almost every moderate I know was considering McCain. Once Palin came on the scene, shrieking and casting aside science, they said, deal over. She really was a very poor choice. I think Republicans make a mistake thinking that women vote their gender. I do not think they do.

      1. McCain isn’t a liberal. 2. Hillary isn’t a liberal. Both are light years from each other, however.

      Anyone who doesn’t vote loses his or her voice.

      Hillary’s gender had nothing to do with my support for her.

      I also know that most democrats very much cared about which Democrat got in. Again, you are blowing smoke

      That business about McCain is just an excuse. The problem with McCain was, I heard more bad crap about him out of Republicans around here than I did from Democrats.

      Some advise: You might like the hell out of some far right person, lets say Santorum. However, he is unelectible because most people find him offensive. You need to get behind a moderate person who best represents your values and the far righties need to stop with the public bashing of the chosen candidate. There is just too much of that going on. No wonder McCain lost. Geez.

      The extremes of a party will never win. They can’t. 60% of the voters are really in the middle.

  22. Steve Thomas

    @Cargosquid
    Cargo,

    While I agree with your conclusion re: closed primaries, I am not so much on-board with the logic leading to it. Yes, McCain had angered the base over the years with a series of bad votes, and too many reaches across the isle at critical times (gang of 14 anyone). Yes, the Palin pick was intended to attract conservatives, but women as well. However, in comparing the deviation off the standard of “conservative”, McCain was miles closer to this, than was Obama. How far left Obama actually is came a a suprise to many I think. McCain wasn’t my choice in the primaries. Fred Thompson was. Although a solid conservative, he’s just not a disciplined campaigner. When Fred dropped out, I really didn’t care who won. I was going to support the GOP nominee regardless, because I knew that even a moderate Republican would be closer to my positions then Obama or Clinton ever could be. I felt much the same way about Dole in 96, but he was a better choice for me than was Bill Clinton.

  23. Censored bybvbl

    @Cargosquid

    And McCain would not have gotten as many votes as he did without Palin, since he belatedly realized that his disregard for the base was costing him the election.

    Where’s the data to prove this? Many moderates who may have voted for him were turned off by his bozo running mate. He would have been better off choosing an intelligent male or female conservative running mate. Palin is a flash-in-the-pan who luckily made some money by making everything all about her. In a few years – if not sooner – people will be saying Sarah who?

  24. Steve Thomas

    @Censored bybvbl
    “Many moderates who may have voted for him were turned off by his bozo running mate.”

    and where is the data to prove this? If Cargo’s assertion is based upon anecdotal information, so is yours. I would say perhaps his argument is a bit stronger, as this is the position that is held by many within the GOP who did the post-mortem on the election. The consensus is McCain, by having Palin on the ticket, did much better with conservatives in polling post-selection, and his numbers amongst moderates stayed relatively unchanged. Believe me, there was much post-election analysis within the GOP, and I read a BUNCH of it.

  25. Cato the Elder

    McCain lost a lot of moderates when he proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he was clueless on economic issues by opening his big yap during the TARP negotiations (based on conversations I had with quite a few people during that period of time). Suspending your campaign to rush back to DC when you know you have nothing of value to add isn’t bold leadership, it’s flailing. Obama was/is similarly clueless, but had the good sense to keep his mouth shut.

  26. Censored bybvbl

    @Steve Thomas

    GOP voters represent only about 1/3 of those who vote. Independents (another 1/3) will decide elections. You can do plenty of analysis within your party and miss the big picture.

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