UPDATE: The article has been posted on www.ruralcrescent.org and can be read there.
The election of Peter Candland might very well signify the death knell for the Rural Crescent. For those who may not believe that Peter Candland could be the nail in the coffin for the Rural Crescent and sane land use for the entire county, think again. This article from the Washington Business Journal leave voters with no illusions. I am going to urge everyone to put this article up on your facebook page, send it to your e-mail list, send it to friends who may have friends who vote in the Gainesville district. People must get out and vote for Ann Wheeler, not just because she signed the Rural Crescent Pledge, but because, overall, she is the more qualified candidate.
Post this thread on your facebook page, the message must get out that Peter Candland, like Corey, like Wally, is sure to be the next “Developers Candidate”. The Rural Crescent protected this County during the last out of control housing boom, now is the not the time to wonder about its fiscal value for all residents!
Don’t believe me? Fine, look at VPAP and see who are Candlands biggest supporters! He has recieved over 23,000.00 dollars from the building industry, 5,800.00 of which is specifially from Real Estate Developers and 3,200 from home builders.
>”Prince William board shift could open rural area“
For the first time in 13 years, a window may be opening — albeit a narrow one — for developers to build in Prince William County’s 80,000-acre preservation area, known as the Rural Crescent.
Peter Candland, the Republican nominee for Gainesville District supervisor, acknowledges his election Nov. 8 in the GOP-heavy district may be a game changer for Prince William development policy.
John Stirrup was a vocal and dependable advocate for the Rural Crescent, I cannot understand what made him so publicly support Peter Candland.
Moonhowlings has always recognized John on his steadfast support of the Rural Crescent.
Candlands election would would signify a complete shift in development policy from John Stirrups tenure. The Gainesville Sector Plan, rezoned in 2003, has enough commercial zoning to fit TWO Tysons Corners. The problem in Prince William County is not a lack of commercial land, but a lack of quality business’s interested in filling those land bays. Destroying the Rural Crescent should NOT be in the future for Prince William County.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it’s hell.” Harry Truman
I have read, reread, and reread the Washington Business Journal article and all that Candland said was (1) he will listen to anyone, and (2) he supports the Rural Crescent.
But it has been my observation that the truth is the very first casualty in political campaigns.
I never said I was voting for Candland because he is a Republican. I said I was voting for Candland because his philosophy resonates with me.
Martha Hendley shares much of that philosophy, but she made the fundamental error in thinking the Rural Crescent was THE MOST mportant issue to voters in the Gainesville district. That is a trap Ann Wheeler is slipping into with this latest positioning vis-a-vis the article in the Washington Business Journal.
I do not believe it is.
Whatever traction Martha got, and whatever traction Ann will get, is limited to a slice of the electorate that is passionate about this issue.
In the end, Candland’s sin was that he did not sign the pledge. He claims he does not sign pledges (quoting him from the Committee of 100 debate).
Sorry, but that does not translate to him being opposed to the Rural Crescent.
Indeed, he has repeatedly said he supports it.
So to oppose Candland on that issue, a voter would have to read between the lines, and even then you have to really stretch to find the issue here.
But, as in most energized discussions, the adage applies that you will always lose in a game of cat and mouse if you are playing as the mouse.
One additional point, if you go back to the Committee of 100 debate recording Candland made it very clear that he supports the Rural Crescent AND the Comprehensive Plan.
With all candidates, the performance will play out after the election.
In my opinion, Candland’s sin was picking a fight with Elena and therefore with Moonhowlings. In the Gainesville District, the Rural Crescent is going to be a big issue. Woodbridge or Occaquan, not so much.
It isn’t my most important issue. I am an ‘in-town’ person. I don’t live in or even near the Rural Crescent. However, I do see where not putting in hundreds of quarter-acre or less homes is going to slow down sprawl. If there aren’t lots more houses put in, there is less of a demand for schools, new roads, fire, rescue and cops, etc. There are plenty of other areas not in the RC to put in homes. There are quite a few vacant homes already in the county. We aren’t having a housing shortage.
I try to be truthful when I comment. If I have mistakenly stated something not true, I make the correction. Elena goes by the same code of ethics. I don’t make up crap to put spin on. Can you make that claim about the other 2 blogs carry the Camp Candland news? Didn’t think so.
Yes, Candland was for the RC and the CP after he didn’t want to sign that he would support minimum 10 acre lots and oppose the expansion of municipal sewage into the RC. Do you not see that his statements conflict? He is using weasel words to avoid the crux of the matter.
You can be “for the Rural Crescent” but if you aren’t willing to agree to the 2 components that are at the heart of the matter, you really haven’t committed to anything, now have you?
To avoid making that commitment, Candland was advised to pick a fight with Elena over things that really didn’t have a thing to do with the RC, and in some cases, weren’t even true. Why talk smack about someone you don’t even know? Martha got my primary vote and that is why Ann will get my general election vote. I hadn’t planned on my voting preference even making it to this blog. In fact, before the smack talk, I hadn’t decided who I would vote for.
I think you have been fooled, GFP2. You have bought the weasel words.
Gainesville first,
Here is the reality from my perspective. Candland SAID his election would be the game changer for development in PWC. WHAT is he talking about? I can tell you what he is talking about, it is clear to those who have followed land use very closely for at least a decade or more. It was also clear to the reporter. Development has been happening in PWC for a long time, the only break has been the housing implosion. The only boundary to high density development, the Rural Crescent. There is PLENTY of commercial land planned in the Long Range Use Plan. I bet Peter Candland doesn’t even know what that word means. It isn’t a lack of properly planned land, it is a lack of bringing the business here. He is now trying to back pedal on his reason not to sign the pledge but it is irrefutable from his own mouth.
He refused to sign the pledge because of me. He chose to listen to bad advice on the history of ARC and of me.
Do you know who Sherman Patrick is from the article? What about Mark Granville Smith?
As to old adages, I would probably stick with the cat theme:
Mark Twain:
“One of the most striking differences between a cat and a lie is that a cat only has nine lives.”
His very word at the debate were “There’s not a thing I would change about the Comp. Plan.” I will NEVER forget those words.
Did anyone else get a letter from Stirrup and hand written letter from Mrs. C?
The funny thing is this didn’t come in my husband’s name, it came to the Pannell Family. The Pannell family has NO interest in supporting Candland, please don’t waste your paper, ink, words and stamp on this house. The other family name in this house shares the Pannell view.
Folks, the funny thing about the Comp Plan is it IS going to see a change starting in January 2012 when the next PWC Strategic Plan (2013-2017) is developed. The Strategic Plan will get an overhaul with Staff and County Residents (appointed by Supervisors after the elections of course). Once the new items are defined under the various Strategic Plan areas, then the Comp Plan gets a relook. Plus, toss in the Regional Initatives going now to include the Tri-County Parkway is back in earnest…and that whole thing of build the road to the “wrong side of Dulles”. Personally, I see the western end of the Rural Crescent to be in trouble in the out years.
Having sat there at the PWC100 Debate, and my first exposure to both, I did find a common weakness to each canditate. When it came to Economic Development, and some of the things they were saying, I was shaking my head that neither one seemed to have read the Quarterly Economic Development report briefed to the BOCS. Mrs. Ernestine Jenkins was sitting at the table with me, and kinda fun to watch her expressions…she turned to me at one point and asked “Does it sound like the current Board has done nothing?”
All that said, I stick with a previous point in an earlier blog here – I found Ann to be more of a thinker, and had stronger debate points….and overall if I was a Gainesville District, I would vote for her even with my slight attitude about the PWC DSS Board (but that is a different song to sing).
It is my impression that Elena and Moon-howler are honest, well-spoken, and thoughtful people. I hope that most who participate in these discussions are.
Inevitably, when the discourse gets intense, expressions of opinion are fueled by strong emotions as well — on both sides.
I have tried hard to examine each of the issues raised to see if they possess sufficient weight to alter my current thinking in the Wheeler-Candland race. That introspection requires that I often have to put myself in the shoes of others who make good arguments even though my instincts are disregard those arguments because they are at odds with my current thinking.
Much has been made about alleged lies Peter Candland has told, and I have no doubt those who make such allegations both believe it and, as I have observed, have credible personal interactions to justify the conclusions.
The point I made earlier about Ann Wheeler’s campaign messaging regarding the claim that she, as a member of the NOVEC Board, delivered a 4.5% rate reduction to every Prince William County resident is completely and utterly false.
That conclusion is not based on any possible misinterpretation of a conversation; is not based on any misstatement by a candidate in the heat of a debate or interview with a reporters.
To make this claim, Ann Wheeler had to make a judgment that she had the right to take credit for the rate reduction. The record shows that she had no right to do so.
The only true statements in that claim is that Ann Wheeler is on the Board of NOVEC, and NOVEC delivered a 4.5% rate reduction to ratepayers.
The rest of it is just plain untrue.
Worse, it is horribly opportunistic for Ann Wheeler to make such a campaign claim because she knows the statement deliberately and knowingly misleads voters into thinking the NOVEC Board wanted to cut rates by 4.5%
The record from the State Corporation Commission proves conclusively the NOVEC Board vigorously opposed the rate cut; the record shows that even when the Commission ordered the NOVEC Board to return the money to ratepayers (that was an overcharge during a 21 month period), then NOVEC Board offered only 1/2 of the overcharge as a rate reduction; and the record clearly shows the Commission had to ORDER the NOVEC Board to enact the 4.5% rate reduction.
No one can credibly defend the Wheeler campaign message that is clearly and provably untrue.
No one can credibly defend a candidate that willfully and knowingly included such a false claim in a blatant and obvious attempt to mislead voters.
In the final analysis, I prefer a candidate who will listen to all sides where I at least have a chance to persuade he or she of the correctness of my argument to a candidate who will look me right in the eye and claim he or she has already put money in my pocket and that it the decisive argument for me to support that candidate — when the claim made is completely false.
Ray Beverage is correct in that Ann Wheeler is a “thinker.” She obviously thought about making the false claim of getting a 4.5% rate cut to Prince William County families, and thought it sounded better than anything else to persuade voters that she gets results. What she didn’t think about is that she would get caught.
I understand your displeasure with the style and model of the other blogs covering these issues, but it does not mean that a reader can occasionally stumble upon an issue that is absolutely correct.
First of all, “I support the Rural Crescent” can mean anything. I might have believed that Peter Candland really meant it UNTIL he acknowledged that his election may be a game changer. Stirrup was a strong supporter of the rural crescent so why would Candland’s election cause a “game change” if he kept the same views as Stirrup. It would not, and yet Candland himself, says it will. That means he clearly believes he will change the game.
Here is what is going to happen: The first project to dip into the crescent will be commercial. It will be approved because it “creates jobs” even though there is land in the developed area specifically set up for creating jobs where there are no projects. Next will follow the residential projects, snuck in under mixed use. Candland is going to vote for every rural crescent project coming down the pike under the guise of “more office space, more jobs, premiere communities” except we are going to get 1/4 acre $350,000 homes (which never pay enough taxes for the services they consume), supposed “luxury” $200,000 townhomes, and every crappy retail joint we have now.
But these same developers are going to “preserve” a swamp area never letting on to the public that nothing could have been built on that land in the first place. They’ll throw in fields for some sport who hasn’t been bussed down to McCoart yet. And Candland is going to praise the developer for their preservation of the rural crescent unbuildable swamp land and vote yes on the project. Then he is going to say “I support the rural crescent.” as we watch it disappear.
Once the sewer is extended into the first project, the rest will fall like dominoes. People are going to jump up and down and scream about the construction traffic, the brand new schools that are overflowing with trailers and taxes going up.
If I am wrong, I am happy to eat crow. Actually I hope and pray that Peter Candland proves me wrong. And I hope Gainesville First and other Candland supporters are also ready to eat crow when the first rural crescent vote comes up and Candland is a “yes”. I like to serve it rare with a side of sarcasm.
Goodbye RC,
Welcome and you are right from my sad persective. Let me add, Mr. Candland has said enough about how he “supports” the Rural Crescent to let me come to every BOCS and print out his words to remind of his own statements. He has done so much backpeddling there is probably a rut in the road that needs VDOT to repair it!
Goodbye RC did a wonderful job of describing the immediate future if Candland gets elected. If I were a betting woman, I would put a steak dinner at Ruth Chris Steak house up for him/her being correct, I am sad to say.
Thanks for the look into the dark future, Goodbye.
Maybe it’s me that is tone deaf in this discussion, but is anyone who threw the darts at Candland for allegedly lying willing to step up and explain Ann Wheeler’s false claim about the 4.5% NOVEC rate cut that (1) was really a refund for overcharges by NOVEC, and (2) was a refund the State Corporation Commission had to COMPEL AND FORCE the NOVEC Board to cough up for its ratepayers?
I do not know what Candland said or didn’t say to the reporter in the Washington Business Journal, but I did hear Candland say that he intended to aggressively hold developer’s feet to the fire on the issue of paying for infrastructure BEFORE they got to build new housing or commercial development.
Now that would be a game changer in PWC.
What say you?
Peter Candland must be getting nervous. He just robo-called with a frantic “I support the Rural Crescent” message. Define support, Peter. Why are you a game changer?
I wish I knew I could count on him to do the Stirrup thing rather than the Corey thing.
He sure has wasted a lot of time with convincing us he really didn’t mean what he said. All of this was so avoidable.
@Gainesville First – Politics 2nd
No, I take Ann Wheeler at her word and I frankly don’t care about NOVEC. I have had it for a million years, I like it, my electricity is reliable and affordable. Why would I waste time over a discussion like that.
I do care that someone lied about Elena because he listened to gossip. I also know which people cooked up the gossip and I know why. Let’s put it out there again. Elena is pro-choice. I am pro-choice. Both of us support the resolution as it exists NOW. We support the 287(g) program.
What do any of those issues have to do with the Rural Crescent?
Yeah, he’ll be real tough on them, I guess that’s why the building industry has poured so much money into Candlands campaign! THey are running scared, right to their wallets for peter.
If people put party aside and vote the best candidate, Ann Wheeler can win. Soooooooo……….VOTE!
@Moon-howler
Moon-howler: My point was about the campaign misrepresentation, not about the fact NOVEC happens to be the topic.
Ann Wheeler has, at least in my judgment, a duty to tell the truth when she makes her “results” pitch a central part of the messaging of her campaign.
I don’t think Candland detractors can have it both ways here — i.e., Candland lied on the Rural Crescent, but then just dismiss the lie from Wheeler because it is not about the Rural Crescent.
Sorry, but that is important to me.
I’ve tried to refrain from chiming in here but given the “Washingon Business” article must say something. Longtime MH readers know that I’m a longtime Republican who almost never supports Democrats. Moreover, I’ve met Peter and liked him personally. I think his character is much better than some of those who are leading his campaign. Nonetheless, I hope Ann Wheeler wins. Peter’s claims that he supports the Rural Crescent are very disingenuous given his attacks on Elena and his remarks to the Washington Business Journal. Even if you don’t support conservation, the longterm tax implications of opening the Rural Crescent to higher density residential development are serious, same for congestion on our roads and crowding in our schools. Peter’s remarks in the article this week show him clearly more on the side of development rather than taxpayer interests. As much as it pains me as a Republican, I support Ann Wheeler, who is, by the way, a former Stirrup appointee and a member of the Stirrup budget committee who showed up for meetings and worked hard for John in that role.
Gainesville, the way I took the read on Ann Wheeler and the NOVEC thing is typical polo-speak to me: I can think of a lot of politicos who say they were responsible for “x-y-z” when in reality, it was just one person’s vote among several votes.
But when it comes to “truth in politics” there is only one truth – the name of the subject – “politics” – and everything else is just adaptation of American Standard English to fit either a point of view, or to paint a picture.
@Gainesville First – Politics 2nd
I don’t know anything about NOVEC. Why should I run my mouth about something I am unaware of. Am I suppose to pull facts out of thin air? Why would NOVEC want to cheat us? What’s in it for her? Its a utility.
Maybe I should ask you to cite your sources with whatever it is you are charging her with. Right now it sounds about as fair as me asking you when you stopped beating your wife or what day you were released from prison. Spell it out, full disclosure and then we can discuss whatever it is.
Meanwhile. I am not going to have bits and pieces of something bandied about here. If you feel the lady has done something wrong, spill it.
One more things, we don’t usually defend Greg BS over here. Why? It becomes a red circle jerk. Its a distractor. Yawn.
Feel free to explain this dire situation to me and the readers.
@Moon-howler
Moon-howler: I will take up the challenge and gather the documents.
I have to admit, though, that you have completely missed my point.
It is easy to go on the attack about an alleged lie that Peter Candland told — particularly given the personal animus that resulted from it.
But on the issue of lies and deception, Ann Wheeler’s NOVEC claim truly is disturbing.
She did not have anything to do with getting a “result” of a 4.5% rate cut as a member of the NOVEC Board.
If you go to the Virginia State Corporation Commission website, and search cases, the specific case number is “Case Summary For Case Number : PUE-2010-00044.”
Here is the conclusion of that Order:
FINAL ORDER
“On August 10, 2010, Northern Virginia Electric Cooperative (“NOVEC,” “Applicant,” or
“Cooperative”) completed an Application and Request for Waiver (“Application”) with the State
Corporation Commission (“Commission”) for approval of its proposed rates, which would result
in a general decrease in the rates charged to NOVEC’s customers. NOVEC filed this Application
pursuant to §§ 56-231 .33, 56-231 .34, 56-235, and 56-585 .3 of the Code of Virginia (“Code”) and in accordance with the Commission’s Orders in Case No. PUE-2008-00083.”
Then on the same page:
“As modified by the Commission’s September 1, 2010 Order (“Modification Order”), the Order for Notice and Hearing also directed the Cooperative to make its then-current rates interim, subject to refund with interest, for bills rendered on or after October 1, 20 10, and further directed that NOVEC’s proposed rates, once implemented, be made interim, subject to refund with interest . NOVEC was authofized to implement its proposed rates on January 3, 2011.”
The relevant ruling is as follows:
“Specifically, we find that:
1. NOVEC shall return to its customers, by way of the Special Cashback process, the 2010
power supply cost variances and the remainder of the 2009 power supply costs variances
as agreed to in the June 2, 2011 resolution passed by NOVEC’s Board of Directors;
2 . The total annual revenue reduction of $17,521,603, as based on a TIER of 4.00 and
resulting in a ROR of approximately 4.2%, is reasonable;”
So the only question left is what position did the NOVEC Board (Ann Wheeler) take with the SCC?
Here is the answer:
“The Staff and Fairfax County generally argued that the power cost recovery variances represented an over recovery that NOVEC is required to return to its members on a dollar-for-dollar basis. The Staff maintained that this return of the variances should be accomplished through a rate credit to NOVEC’s members. NOVEC argued that it complied with the terms of its Schedule PCA, the variances were collected under the terms of this tariff, the power cost recovery variances do not represent an over-recovery, and that the Cooperative should not be required to return the $19.2 million to members on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Consumer Counsel discussed the reasons that could
justify the Commission taking “unique remedial measures” in this case . Post-Hearing Brief of the Office of the Attorney General Division of Consumer Counsel at 9, filed Apr. 14, 2011.”
NOVEC argued they should not be required to return the $19.2 million to members on a dollar-for-dollar basis.
The SCC ruled they had to.
So Ann Wheeler, and the NOVEC Board, complied with an SCC Order to refund all of the money they did not want to refund.
Now I have cited the sources.
So the point is Ann Wheeler knowingly and falsely claimed credit as a part of here messaging to voters that she saved us a lot of money.
It simply was not — and is not — true.
You know, it takes a lot more than a convoluted bunch of utility haggling to drag me in to a fight. Find someone who is interested. I feel confident Ann saved us money somewhere along the line, if for no other reason, our power didn’t go out every time there was a thunder storm. My time is money and not sitting in the dark is saving me money.
Seriously, is this what you call gotcha? Pardon me, but I just don’t give a rat’s ass.
Please find some other sin. The SCC is a rubber stamp commission.
One more thing…I don’t give a rat’s ass what happened with Peter Candland’s HOA either. Frankly, it is hard enough to get people to do those jobs in the first place. Generally speaking, it is a thankless job.
I have spelled out my beef with him. I can’t be plainer. Re: picking a fight. Additionally, he left the impression that he can’t work with people who don’t share his values. That is no way to campagin. You have to work with all people. I obviously, as a pro choice woman, in some way violate his values. So I assume I will unprepresented should he be elected.
What you have described is that you appear to have blinders on in this race. No matter what Wheeler does, or does not do, you are against Candland.
I get that, but there is no high ground to claim when you try to defend Wheeler as the alternative to Candland on the basis that Candland is a liar. I looks like Wheeler has the more onerous lie on her shoulders, but, as you aptly put it, you don’t give a “rat’s ass.”
Message received.
Who would complain about NOVEC? Dominion Power costs more, has more outages, and takes a hell of lot longer for power to be restored than NOVEC.
Gainesville 1st do YOU have the details on this vote you speak of regarding NOVEC? Do you know for a fact how Ann voted? It’s really time to put up or shut up on this matter.
Nothing like trolling local blogs. 👿
Ann Wheeler has not lied about Elena. She has not lied about Elena as a distraction to get around giving a definitive answer to 2 simple questions.
I most certainly will claim the high ground. Why are you so quickly to dismiss someone lying about a private citizen for political gain? I find that behavior deplorable.
You are blowing smoke. I don’t see where Wheeler has lied about anything.
NOVEC isn’t an issue here. That is a strawman distraction, sort of like Elena was.
Point not proven.
You are asking me to take some NOVEC pissing contest with the state corporation commission and apply it to Ann’s service in the county. I basically have been impressed with her knowledge base on county issues. She seems to be more in tune with the things that are important to me. She knows that my neighborhoods exist, for starters. She is very interested in education and understands why we have trailers. (too much building in Western PWC too quickly)
You all had to dig mighty deep for all that NOVEC stuff. It would have to impact me a lot more for me to reread it. Since we are talking about power companies…where was Peter during all the Dominion Power flap? I won’t hold him responsible if he wasn’t involved. However, that did involve people in the Gainesville District. I am “in town “so I didn’t get involved either.
NOVEC isn’t an issue in this race. Potential growth in Western PWC is an issue.
I don’t feel I have blinders on. If someone defamed your business partner and you formed opinions based on what that someone said, would you consider it having blinders on?
I would consider it liking the facts that I saw. He sealed the deal when he had the opportunity to apologize for being an oaf and didn’t.
@Lafayette
No one complains about NOVEC. What’s not to like. The lights go out, NOVEC gets them back on really quickly. See if PEPCO customers will say the same thing.
Gainesville,
You fail to understand people want a supervisor that has proper time to devote to the job. After reading that hand written letter by Robyn Candland, I’m convinced more than ever he does NOT have the time to devote to we the citizens. We went through a spell in the Gainesville District not too long ago for the supervisor missing meetings. The next year the attendance improved in a major way.
You say Moon has blinders on. That’s quite laughable considering you are the one that came to this blog with blinders on and your mind made up on this race. I hope you didn’t come here thinking you were going to win a couple of votes for Candland. If you did you’ve wasted your time. You have proven to be very much like Candland’s henchwoman during the primary. Go visit a blog with like minded people that way you can all stroke each other til cows come home. They won’t be coming to Gainesville anytime soon, it’s about to become a paved paradise.
The power has not gone out on my block a single time in over 25 years. I have feeling someone might be jealous that don’t have NOVEC. Boo hoo, with the lights on, some are apparently still in the dark.
A Paved Paradise?
I am laughing like hell. Too funny. It sounds like Paradise by the Dashboard Light.
My, we are all a bit sensitive when we poke the sacred cow. It appears there is little or no tolerance on this blog for anyone to have a dissenting view if we do not just fall into lock-step with the view that a disagreement between Elena and Peter Candland means that Peter Candland is Satan reincarnate.
I have had disagreements with folks before, on occasion very strong disagreements. I have not required others to share my anger, distrust, or even my intense hatred (for brief periods) for a person with whom I disagree.
My point was never about NOVEC and Ann Wheeler. It is about the fact that she falsely claims to have a record of public service that she knew was false.
Ann Wheeler also knew it would be difficult to dig out, so she took the calculated risk.
In this case, she is on the NOVEC Board, NOVEC was ordered to give ratepayers a 4.5% rate cut, ergo Ann Wheeler delivered the rate cut to customers.
How did Ann Wheeler vote.
No one knows.
The minutes of NOVEC Board Meetings are not public.
Wait a minute, was that not Ann Wheeler’s argument about Peter Candland and he keeping HOA members in the dark because the Board regularly went into Executive Session?
If you were able to set aside the personal animus for Candland, and step back and look at this objectively, I think you would be able to see the point that Ann Wheeler had no right to deliberately mislead voters — or at least she should be held to the same standards of required integrity as Candland is held to.
I am sorry that I have stepped into this “circle of hell” on the disagreement between Elena and Candland, because absent that I think the NOVEC claims might have given pause to some.
If Candland wins, and I think it is likely he will, then many have disenfranchised themselves from the opportunity to influence his thinking going forward. I believe the input of Elena and Moon-howler would have been valuable, so it truly is a loss.
But it is a loss of your own making if you were to look at it objectively — and I am not dismissing the error by Candland in the initial handling of the pledge fiasco — I am only making the observation that if Candland is the Supervisor he has the “power position.”
That is the nature of politics.
@Lafayette
Layfayette: You said what?
So I failed the litmus test.
By the way, I did not actually comment on this blog until after the primary was over.
So unless I am part of the anti-Candland club, I am unwelcome?
I did not delude myself that participation on this blog had anything to do with winning votes for one candidate or another. I thought it was an exchange of ideas between interested parties.
Do you think your aggressive attacks on those you disagree with win the hearts or minds of listeners?
I have no litmus test. I don’t care when you came. You are the one the came to this blog with your mind made up. It’s clear most of don’t support your guy.
Agressive attacks? You’ve not seen agressive on this blog. People disagree here all of the time. I’ve never been accused of being aggressive. Hey that’s your opinion and we all have them. I’ve been on this blog and the other local blog for years. I don’t recall anyone sharing your opinion. Everyone on this blog even those that I disagree with tell you I’m not agrressive. I’m an Independent and take crap from both sides. Sorry if your if you feel you’ve been attacked. I think it all goes back to this post, that clearly struck a nerve.
Have a happy Monday and make sure you get out and vote tomorrow. 🙂
Lafayette
October 28th, 2011 at 15:56 | #6
Reply | Quote
@Gainesville First – Politics 2nd
Are you that Mad-Dog Mac Haddow? If you aren’t you sure have a twin out there in the Gainesville District.
@Lafayette
I will get out and vote tomorrow, thank you.
My comment on being “aggressive” is your use of highly charged language wherein you stated I had been “proven to be very much like Candland’s henchwoman.”
You suggest that I should excuse this sort of attack on the premise that you have “take[n] crap from both sides.”
I personally have no issue with strong, passionate debate. When it devolves into ad-hominen attacks on others involved in a discussion, purely because we disagree with one another on one issue or another, then the elegance of blogging debates is thrust to the side in favor of everyone forming a cheering squad for one viewpoint that the bloggers require everyone else to agree with.
All of this is perfectly fine if you accept the notion that the purpose of the blog is to get together to discuss a common agreement on some topic, and only disagree how you arrived at the common agreement in the first place.
To me, that is sort of a disinteresting exercise.
One additional comment that needed to be separated from the point I made earlier.
What is the fixation with this person “Mad-Dog Mac Hadlow?”
Everyone who supports Peter Candland is somehow a disciple of the Mad Dog?
So everyone who supports Wheeler is a disciple of Elena and Moon-howling?
I prefer to believe that people of good will can simply agree and disagree on various issues based on their own independent analysis, and not be judged on that belief because some other person (however lauded or nefarious) also holds a similar view.
@Gainesville First – Politics 2nd
Whooooooooooooooooa…….I am trying to figure out who the sacred cow is.
Gainesville first said:
What you are failing to understand is, there was no disagreement between Peter and Elena. Until you understand that, there is no discussion and no going forward. Elena was minding her own business when she was vilified on Peter’s FB.
This might be a good time to start explaining why a candidate would start a fight with a blog, specifically one of the owners, when the blog had no fight with them? What person does that? It wasn’t just starting a fight with a blog and its owners but a blog that was mainly made up of City folks and folks who live in Western PWC?
Let’s step back and just take a look at what has gone down. Why would he do that? I know, I know, bad advice. Is that the kind of wisdom Peter will show as a supervisor? Will he build bridges or will he alienate those with whom he has to work? From what I have seen, he will just go around and try to piss people off. That is what he did with this blog.
Look around. Tell me any other campaign we are engaged in. There isn’t one.
So poke at the sacred cow? I would say lying about one of the blog owners who has no fight with you is a pretty big poke. Do not dare take this self defense as aggression.
Lafayette agressive? She is usually able to get along with everyone and that includes all the supervisors, even those with whom she disagrees. Should Peter win, well, I guess I will change all to most.
I don’t delude myself into thinking this blog will ever have influence with him. From what I have seen, he doesn’t have the savvy to try to make nice. So he just gets to deal with the business end of things. Corey might be happy to have someone share the heat with him.
And while we are at it, GFP2, you are able to speak here. The Peter blogger won’t allow anyone to comment on his little pulpit. So he can spew lies and such from on high. We all know what the dark side does. So let’s not complain about treatment here. All and all, you have been treated better here than any one of us has been treated on the blogs where Peter is the Pet. I just thought I should point that out.
Yes, the debate has been vigorous. Your last sentence gave me hope. I hope you now understand what brought our public about, after we decided to not involve ourselves in the election debates.
I thought mad dog was a really really cheap wine (Mogen David) from the 70’s. Alas, I date myself.
@Gainesville First – Politics 2nd
I can see your point to some degree about the Mad-dog Haddow and henchwoman. However, it would serve you well to go back and reread this blog. I am not the only person by any stretch of the imagination that uses that term.
I’ve been in the same room with people that hated me with a passion and was able to spend 8 hours with them and we all got along and I even had several apologize to me. Oh, well. There’s no point in trying to make you understand. You seem to have it all figured out.
I would attempt to work with Candland and staff, should he be elected. However, I don’t think I’ll get very far. That’s fine too. I get along with every other one of the board members and some the current candidates. It takes 5 votes to get something past. There are two other supervisors representing my neighborhood. The two supervisors will need to be brought up to speed on the neighborhood issues that we’ve been quite successful in working with Stirrup and his fine staff. However, Candland completely excluded the in-town folks when his initial email went out for his bid for supervisor. That of course was before Stirrup said he was running for the new senate seat. He has to know our neighborhood exists to represent us.
I will say this, I took the time to speak with Peter when he came to my door. He was a very pleasant man that seemed to really have a lot on his plate. We discussed that and several other concerns I had. I don’t feel he left my porch thinking wow, that is one aggressive woman.
In driving around the Gainesville District, I notice lots of places where historically there have been Republican signs, now either have Wheeler signs or nothing at all.
Privately, I hear Republicans are regretting selecting Peter Candland. I haven’t heard of any of the primary republican candidates publicly support or endorse him.
I understand Wheeler was a Stirrup appointee and supporter. I have never cast a vote for a Dem but this time I believe the better person for the position is Wheeler.
Welcome 2 cents.
I have been called no less than 10 times about Wheeler signs being pulled up in Haymarket. Geez. Where is JY when we need him. I guess he has outgrown that silly behavior after all these years.
MD and Ripple. Bad flashback!!!! Just shoot me.
This has been a crazy day and isn’t over yet….OH if only I had the time to respond to Gainesville!
Later………………………….
Methinks the gentleman needs lessons in Virginia manners. Make that several gentlemen who haven’t been taught better by their mothers.
Amen Roxanne!
Where is GFP2? I guess they gave up trying to convert us.
@Moon-howler
I doubt you’ll hear from him/her again. GFP2 was here only to throw in some doubt about the Candland facts being discussed in the thread. It’s all over now but the voting.
I voted in a precinct that is strongly Republican this morning. Turnout was reasonably strong, so I guess they are coming out to vote for Stewart and his henchmen.
I feel very much like Yoda at the end of Star Wars III after Palpatine (Corey) and Vader (Candland) had won, the Empire was taking over, and the good guys were all going into hiding. Maybe I’ll be wrong when we wake up tomorrow morning.
Theseus, I think you are probably right on, I am sorry to say.
For someone who believes the Rural Crescent was Martha’s critical mistake Gainesville, Peter sure is workin’ hard at convincing people he supports the RC!
I have not gone away, and perhaps will increase my involvement going forward.
It would be a mistake to dismiss my participation on this blog as Theseus has done by claiming i was “here only to throw some doubt about the Candland facts being discussed in the thread.”
Why is it not legitimate to hold a different position that someone else, to actually research some of the issues, and then express opinions relating to the discussion without having those opinions be characterized as being part of a “mad-dog” pro-Candland position?
The intolerance for a different point of view, evidenced by ad-homenim attacks rather than engaging the issues, is what would drive any sane person away from a blog that holds itself out to be a forum for open, free discussion — and that welcomes dissent.
Peter Candland got elected by a very substantial majority of voters despite a very strong and well-organized campaign attacking his past performance and positions on issues. That part of the democratic process is very healthy, and allows for the system to select winner and losers based on the judgments of the majority of the people participating in the voting.
There are two distinct possibilities at play here: First, Peter Candland just hoodwinked the voters and the majority view of voters in his district were deceived, and the prevailing philosophy held by the majority of participants and the moderators of this blog have become the victims of some dastardly conspiracy by a small group of powerful developers to elect another puppet (joining the likes of Stewart, Nohe, May, Caddington, and Covington) to the Board of Supervisors.
Second, it is just possible that the people have made an informed judgment, have rejected the philosophy and position of those on Moon-howling, and are ready to push for changes in the manner in which the County has done business to ensure that jobs are created, the tax base is more balanced between commercial and residential, and that traffic congestion is relieved by putting people to work in Prince William County rather than east of here.
All of that can be done, at least in the judgment of the majority of voters in Prince William County, within the strictures of the Rural Crescent limitations.
If Corey Stewart is the robber-baron he made out to be (and by implication, all of the others elected by the majority of voters), then why did he flat thump his Democratic opponent whose whole message was the Corey was the great robber-baron?
If Peter Candland was as bad a person as Martha Hendley, and then Ann Wheeler/Martha Hendley, made him out to be, then why did voters repudiate the clear message both candidates sent to warn them?
If Peter Candland’s position on declining to sign the pledge because (1) he does not sign any pledges; and (2) he chose not to align himself with Elena on any issue because they are so far apart on most philosophical issues, and this blog and candidates informed the public what a creep Peter Candland is personally, then why did voters not agree and refuse to elect him?
In my opinion, Peter Candland is going to surprise all of you.
Perhaps it is time for some introspection to determine if a peace summit is in order with Candland. There is much to be atoned for based on some of the very nasty attacks lodged against him on this blog.
Then again, it may be better to be the loyal opposition.
Okay, I’m ready for the blow-back that I am just defending Peter for being a creep with Elena; that I am Mad-Wolf; that I am just a mindless follower of developers; and that I must have been a John Bircher in my youth.
And I still think Wheeler’s claim about delivering a 4.5% NOVEC rate reduction was a reflection on her integrity in this campaign as well. (I know we don’t give a “rats-ass” about NOVEC — I’m talking about a candidate taking credit for something that she actually was against).
I’m glad I got that off my chest.
@Gainesville First – Politics 2nd
You are here. That speaks to an open, free discussion. I can think of one blog where that isn’t even possible, another where it becomes iffy.
You aren’t involved in PWC politics or you wouldn’t ask that question. Is this where I interject, now what do YOU think?
You must be Jamie. He is the only one I know beating a dead horse and still bitching and whining about Ann rather than telling us what Peter will do when he takes office. I have never heard much of anything he will do other than ‘get rid of trailers.’ Well, that ship has sailed. Does he even know why we have trailers at schools? (ppsssst overcrowding)
Seriously, the only thing I have against Candland is the attack, based on gossip, of a private citizen. The rest is wait and see. I do believe he acted dishonorably towards Elena. A true gentleman would call and apologize.