- This violation courtesy of the Virginia GOP
(Ultra sound trans-vaginal probe ‘decorated’ by The Rachel Maddow Show)
Bob McDonnell is is walking a thin line as he is quietly trying to do damage control on the devastating mess the far right wing of his party made last week, in particular, with two extremist abortion bills. One bill, sponsored by anti-abortion activist Bob Marshall, defined personhood to be at conception. The other required all women seeking an abortion to undergo an ultra sound first. The sneaky part of that bill was that 90% of all women seeking abortion would require a trans-vaginal probe in order to determine gestational age.
Governor McDonnell had originally stated that he would sign the ultra sound bill until last week when Virginia became the laughing stock of the nation on Saturday Night Live, Rachel Maddow, Colbert Nation, and Jon Stewart’s Daily Show. He quickly back-pedaled when those shows started informing the public what all was really involved. Two protests on the Virginia State Capital Grounds last week punctuated the attitude of Virginia women. One protest was silent. Legislators had to past hundreds of protesters who just stared at them and said absolutely nothing.
The good governor, not wanting to be known as the Vaginal Probe governor, should he be selected as the Vice presidential candidate, tried to talk the lawmakers into less draconian measures. Probably the Maddow prop like the one shown above that stated “I can see the White House from here” probably smarted the most as McDonnell attempted to reined in his maverick legislators. Some refused to listen. According to the Richmond Times Dispatch, Bob Marshall was having none of that and was more than willing to throw Gov. McDonnell under the bus:
Del. Robert G. Marshall, R-Prince William, among the most conservative members of the legislature — and the sponsor of the “personhood” bill that the Senate scuttled Thursday — disagrees. Marshall said the governor badly mishandled the abortion issues in particular.
“You don’t attempt to correct the manipulations of your opponent (and) you sound the call for retreat? Who the hell would put that person in charge of an army in the field?” he said.
Marshall suggested that McDonnell’s maneuvering was an attempt to salvage independent and moderate votes in November.
“This is clearly an abandonment of Ronald Reagan’s legacy,” he said. “He’s also abandoned the Republican platform.”
Is it any wonder that many in the GOP want Marshall out? He simply is not a team player.
On the other hand, McDonnell might be getting what he deserves. He should research all bills before he signs them or says he will sign them. Furthermore, the hyspocrisy of this bill is astounding. Is Virginia not one of the states suing the federal government over mandated health care? How about mandated ultra sounds that are an unnecessary medical procedure that add cost and discomfort to the entire procedure. I guess that’s OK though. The outcome on the ultra sound bill is still unclear. There are still several more anti abortion bills that will require attention.
I think that your coverage of this issue has moved from advocacy to obsession. According to the linked article (from an admittedly conservative blogger), this whole notion of violation has been vastly overblown in order to vilify Republicans. She (the blogger) states that the more invasive procedure would be required over the other for a whopping seven days. If that is true, then all the person has to do to avoid the procedure is wait a week and then go back.
http://www.bookwormroom.com/2012/02/20/the-ultrasound-rape-meme-on-the-left-is-part-of-a-larger-movement-to-discredit-republicans-with-a-big-lie/
As I have said, I am against mandated healthcare of any kind, including this. I also correctly predicted that McDonnell would find a way to avoid signing the bill. But my sympathy for your cause would be much greater if you were against all healthcare mandates (Obamacare, forced coverage of contraception). It is always interesting to see people whine when government intrusion affects them or their causes, yet they are okay with other examples of government mandates that violate the rights of others.
Speaking of mandates, in many cases, Catholic hospitals are self-insured, since the organization is so large. So this little scam of “making the insurers provide contraception for free so the Church doesn’t have to” is utter bs and a complete violation of religious freedom. Of course, Marshall is apparently too stupid (or ignorant of his own church) to be able to point this out intelligently.
This whole issue was a calculated attempt by the Obama administration to create a huge distraction from an abysmal economy in an election year, and it’s been very effective in controlling the public dialogue for weeks now. Idiots like Marshall fell right in line. If the Republicans had any brains, they would be chipping away at the things Obama has difficulty defending, and not harping on contraception and abortion right now. First things first.
Kelly,
When the government wants to control your penis, you may feel a little differently. I have been advocating some sort of forced genital exam for the men who impregnate the women who have chosen abortion. Let’s just make it a fair playing field.
Emma,
People like you are why the offense against the health care reform will fail. On one hand you want government out of healthcare but on the other you advocate what happens to women after they get pregnant. No one against abortion would advocate anything but affordable contraception. Futhermore, Obama did capitulate to the Bishops, but apparntly they were not interested in finding a solution, just denying women easy and affordable access to BC.
What utter BS, Elena! I do not support the VA initiatives at all! NO intrusion, NO church mandates to provide contraception that is against their faith. None of it. I accept that abortion is the law of the land, but I don’t have to like it. Sorry if my opinion on abortion offends you. You’re the one who is selective about the government intrusions you find acceptable. “People like you” indeed. Nice way to shut down debate.
@kelly_3406
Our objective is not to garner sympathy. Obviously I am probably not at great risk of an unwanted pregnancy at my age. However, I do have a daughter and granddaughters I would like to still have rights.
I am very sorry my obsession bothers you. Call it what you want. I learned 25 years ago not to blink on this issue or rights would go zooming away, at cosmic speed.
Now Kelly, what do you think would happen if Elena and I didn’t come out beating the war drums? You and I both know what would happen.
Additionally, I actually don’t give a rat’s ass if the politician is a Democrat or a Republican so get over that. I am about as unhappy with Senator Colgan as a person can get over this subject. Why haven’t I vilified him? The fact that he is a Democrat isn’t what is keeping me from the poisoned ink. He is only one person and I like his family but I am certainly disappointed in him.
I will stop when people stop throwing up restrictions on abortion which was determined by Roe v. Wade. That’s good enough for me.
@Emma
Emma, I have been following all this for years. I wish you were right. You aren’t. Bob Marshall has been trying to get this accomplished since he came to office. This is the first time that the Republicans actually have had a chance of getting that many bills out of committee for a long time.
Additionally, any time there is a pro choice president, women go to sleep at the switch. The older ones like me wear out and feel like they have passed the torch. The younger ones watch legislation whittle away at rights and think to themselves that it isn’t them or they aren’t pregnant or their health care pays for contraception so they go merrily on their way.
The older women unfortunately remember what it was like not to have access to contraception or abortion. They are the ones with fire in their belly on the subject. Once you have been 20 years old and denied contraception without parent permission, that fire doesn’t go out. Once you have gone through your best friend finding legal abortion despite obdstacles like mandated certification by mentally ill psychiatrists, that fire never leaves your belly.
The rage doesn’t go away even though the likelihood of needing those services is no longer an issue. We have daughters and granddaughters to watch out for. We paved the way and we don’t want the younger generation to squander away fragile rights that are not quite etched in stone.
Sorry Emma if I misspoke regarding your views.
I am not offended by people who are opposed to abortion, I can understand their opinion. No one happily chooses abortion. I don’t know one person who ever looked forward to going through an abortion, not one.
I can understand a woman who chooses to bring her pregnancy to full term, but I can just as easily understand a woman who chooses abortion.
Just like I don’t want to pay for someone who was not insured, either because they chose it or couldn’t afford it, I also don’t want to pay for the long term cost of baby that was not wanted. the government forces you to have car insurance and I find health care no different. When you can extricate yourself from you physical body than you can choose not to buy healthcare.
If Obamacare stands, there are no constitutional protections to prevent this from happening.
As for your statement in #7, I frankly do not believe you. You have stated over and over that you believe healthcare is a right. So the real issue is that you want everyone paying into Obamacare to make sure that medical care for you and your family is covered beyond what you are able to pay. In short, you want someone else to pay for any expensive treatment that is needed by you or yours.
The difference between medical insurance and car insurance is that one can opt out of car insurance by not driving. The basic premise is that insurance should be available for pay out to cover damages in the event that the driver is liable. Under Obamacare, there is no way to opt out and it requires pay outs even though the citizen is not liable for someone else’s health issues.
None of the bills before the GA have a darn thing to do with health care reform. Their entire intent is to whittle away at reproductive rights. Let’s not turn something that is clearly about throwing out obstacles to prevent women from exercising their right to a legal procedure into a referendum on health care. This isn’t about health care.
@Moon-howler
So you publicly castigate the Republicans, but let our Democratic Senator off the hook because you like his family. Doesn’t that epitomize how the good ‘ole boy network works? I believe it does.
He is one person. You and I both know that the Virginia Republicans are behind that mess in Richmond. Pleasse don’t be a hypocrite. If the Democrats had a run against reproductive rights, I would give them hell too. The votes were pretty much along party lines.
I will continue to publically castigate any political party who participates in trying to enact what I consider stupid legislation.
In this case, let’s just say it might be the good ole girl network. Do you think that Senator Colgan’s name would fit in the title? I might have been born at night but it wasn’t last night.
Kelly,
You have made my point beautifully, thank you!
You cannot “opt” out of your body, unlike a vehicle where you can ride public transportation. You are some sort of weird paranormal being are you 😉
There is no person I know would not seek medical attention if they are seriously ill, EVERYONE wants to live, its the most basic human instinct.
@Moon-howler
I take your point about the purpose of the bills before the GA. However, I am concerned about the larger point, which is that the government (whether state or federal) should not be involved in healthcare at all. Intent is a side-show. Allowing government to be involved takes too much power away from the individual.
@Elena
Your logic (or lack thereof) is truly something to behold. There are many basic human instincts that drive behavior, but there is no constitutional basis for the government to become involved. It is basic human instinct for everyone to want a significant other (preferably young, attractive and wealthy), but that does not mean that it’s the government’s job to find someone for those who cannot find anyone.
Medical care is the same. Someone may want plastic surgery to improve appearance (in the hope of finding that SO, but such procedures are not available to everyone due to economic circumstance. Even for certain life-saving procedures, there are some courses of action that may be deemed too expensive. I do not want the government to make those decisions.
I think the bottom line is that there are all sorts of different feelings about abortion, many feelings even within the same person. Some people view it as a black or white issue. Right or wrong. Other people believe in shades of gray that are diluted with time, circumstance and many other conditions. One size won’t fit all.
How about each person first off living by his or her own conscience? No one is forcing an abortion on anyone. What we are leaving out of this entire discussion is that the women of Virginia are capable of making their own morally appropriate decisions without the help of the state legislature.
When you get to be my age, it is just simply insulting to think the Bob Marshall is in charge of making moral decisions for me or my offspring.
@kelly_3406
Kelly, I am more than willing to have that discussion with you. I just don’t want it to dilute this one. It is really a separate issue. I am not sure how I feel about all of it. I think there is very much a need for affordable health care for everyone. As to holding a gun at someone’s head saying they have to have it, I am not so sure.
Can we discuss it outside of reproductive issues?
Obamacare will fail, because it is unconstitutional. If this ultrasound bill had passed, it too would fail on constitutional grounds.
Steve: where did you buy your crystal ball?
I am glad McDonnell chickened out. The repugs are a bunch of chickensh$&#€s
@kelly_3406
It is basic human instinct for everyone to want a significant other (preferably young, attractive and wealthy), but that does not mean that it’s the government’s job to find someone for those who cannot find anyone.
That apparently is becoming less and less true since one in four households is a single person many of them quite happy about their status. 🙂
@Moon-howler
Keep up the coverage! I remember the bad old days too. Virginia had a fairly decent reputation in the past couple decades – attractive to business, minded its own business in personal matters, knew routinely to throw Bob Marshall under the bus.
I know you’re not going to like this but….. The Republican Party is dominated by Bible belt white male Southerners who used to flock to the Dixiecrat Democrats. Johnson sent them fleeing to find a more hospitable home and they landed in the Repub. party. The old bug-a-boo fear of the “other” has merely expanded to include gays, immigrants, women, intellectuals, etc. These issues arose in the rural South where the leaders of evangelical groups are mainly found. The religious zealots in Virginia (Bob Marshall for example) are having a hard time letting go. The more moderate (McDonnell perhaps) can’t embrace these fringe issues and still expect to play to the larger electorate.
@Moon-howler
I am willing to discuss this in a thread that does not concern reproductive issues, although it is probably this principle that unites many conservatives with you in opposing these measures in the GA.
I’m with Censored…keep it up. Everyone must know what our hardworking officials consider the priorities of the Commonwealth. Barf. They should be as embarrassed as we are that they would propose and pass laws they don’t even understand or at least are now backpedaling and saying they did not understand. Take the time to READ and THINK before voting on legislation. How about that?
Senator Colgan was one of the SPONSORS of the “personhood” bill. Senator Colgan voted to pass a bill that discriminates against prospective parents who happen to be gay or lesbian. Senator Colgan initially supported the ultrasound bill. Those sainted Colgans always get a pass, don’t they? It must be great to be able to reap so many financial benefits by virtue of one’s political longevity. And yet Kelly is the hypocrite here? Talk about blind partisanship.
Emma, if you go back through my comments on Senator Colgan on the reproductive rights threads you will see that he has not gotten a pass from me. I also mentioned that I thought he was one of the sponsors. I said also I was disappointed in him. I know from 20 years ago the reason he gave for his anti choice votes. I no longer buy into them.
However, I don’t know what I can say other than I don’t like his vote. He hasn’t made it a point to introduce anti abortion/anti contraception legislation for the past 20 years so he won’t get excoriated by me.
Remember, you are on moonhowlings, not the dark screen. Senator Colgan is the longest serving legislator in the General Assembly. I am very disappointed in his anti abortion votes, although I am not surprised. If you want the snot beaten out of him, run over there and mention immigration and Colgan in the same sentence. It will happen.
I just prefer to be more respectful of someone who has served as long as he has and who is still in office in his mid 80s. I can intensely dislike the legislation without making it personal. If it hurts his family that I think the legislation and his vote suck, I am sorry. but I bet it doesn’t hurt like someone calling names like I have seen in the past.
Hmmmmm…………. I thought Rachel Maddow preferred machines over men anyway, so ‘she’ makes a poor spokesperson on behalf of real women I would think.
Second Alamo, that is truly a nasty statement. This is 2012. What she does is her own business. For the record, she has a partner of long standing. Maddow is professional and there really is no reason to bring it up on her part.
She is always courteous and respectful of her guests which is more than I can say of some of the men out there.
Shall I use quote marks and wink around Ann Coulter? No, I wouldn’t do that. As much as she repulses me as a political human being, I certainly have no reason to doubt her gender. Both she and Rachel Maddow are real women.
SA, you have disappointed me.
Just stating facts, nothing more. Women got upset that the group making decisions didn’t include any women, and so I’m just drawing a parallel here. Besides if what a person does in their personal life has no importance, then please explain that to the candidates, as I think you would find that it does. I know a few have dropped out because of their ‘personal lives’.
Rachel Maddow is a lesbian. She doesn’t hide it nor does she flaunt it. She lives her life pretty much like everyone else does. What are you suggesting? She isn’t a candidate. She hasn’t sexted or had sexual harassment suits brought out about her.
You are assuming that because she is a lesbian there is something ‘wrong’ with her or about her life. Over 50% of Americans would disagree with you.
You weren’t stating facts. You were insinuating your opinion based on your prejudices.
Kelly,
My example is relevant, sorry if you don’t understand the similarities between owning a car and owning a body. Who pays for the medical bills when someone declares bankruptcy? Ding ding ding, that’s right, you and I do!
Plasic surgery is an elective, a liver transplant, if you want to live, is not.
SA,
Your comment regarding Rachel is childish at best, nasty and mean at worst. You can talk about the issue of men talking about womens reproductive issues, but to attack her on her sexuality is just ignorant and makes you look ignorant as well, which, I believe, is not who you are as person. I would expect better SA.
“probably smarted the most as McDonnell attempted to reined in his maverick legislators. ”
The real problem, M-H, is that these are not McDonnell’s “maverick” legislators. These are the current mainstream of the Republican Party and McDonnell is one of them. They just got caught by the bright light of publicity so had to backpedal fast. McDonnell was all for the bill until it became widely publicized. The party has gone totally extreme.
I agree Blue Moon. This exact legislation has passed in Texas and was uphold by the courts there. You can force a woman to pay for an expensive UN NEEDED ultrasound AND require her to have a vaginal probe intserted into her body if she wants a legal abortion.
Is anyone surprised that Chuck Colgan voted with the Republicans to get this bill through the senate? The guy is as much an embarrassment to PWC as Bob Marshall is. Can’t we get rid of both of them?
@Blue Moon
I am not surprised and I don’t like it. However, he has been a real power broker as far as getting things done for Northern Virginia and he has really watched PWC schools’ back. He has kept all sorts of foolish education bills from going through.
Therefore I would disagree that he was as much of an embarrassment as Bob Marshall. I would just love to get to a place in the state legislature where abortion and related topics stopped dominating the landscape.