Many folks have suggested that women just go to Planned Parenthood if they want birth control. Let’s take a look and see what all is available. It looks like there are 7 centers in Virginia. They are located in the following cities:
Blacksburg
Charlottesville
Falls Church
Hampton
Richmond
Roanoke
Virginia Beach
All but one of those centers offers abortion services. Hampton only offers a referral. The thing that jumps out at the reader is that all centers are located in areas where there are colleges. What also jumps out is there are no rural centers for women. Some offer LGBT Services . Some offer general health services. All offer men’s services. What do people do if they live in southwest Virginia or southside? Danville and Emporia don’t have Planned Parenthood. It appears that the closest center for most of southside is Roanoke or Virginia Beach. If women don’t live near a population center, they are out of luck. Pennsylvania has 41 centers. Most do not offer abortion services. North Dakota has no centers. South Dakota has 2 centers and only one has abortion services. There is a lot of land out in the midwest.
Planned Parenthood is invaluable. It isn’t free and it isn’t everywhere. There are 79 centers in the United States. The most unfair part of any argument I have heard in the recent ’employer debate’ is trying to put it all on Planned Parenthood while trying to cut all funding to Planned Parenthood. what’s wrong with this picture?
Americans need to start asking themselves why there is a war on contraception. Someone or something is setting this all up and some Republicans are more than willing to play along with this game. Is it a distraction? Is it for real? It can’t be. Access to birth control is established law. Title X family planning funds have been part of law for over 40 years. We need to start asking serious questions every time this subject comes up. Access to contraception should be basic and part of health care. It should not be at the whim of politicians and woman who want it should not be subject to snide remarks and name calling by the cavemen people.
But your friendly neighborhood Walmart and Target have $9 pills, and it’s hard to travel 5 miles without running into one. And don’t they sell condoms? All those sad Catholic Church employees for whom you all have been weeping all week have no access to Walmart, and none of them have alternate sources of insurance? I’m really dreading having to wait in line behind the stampede of Catholic Church employees after Obamacare is fully in place, now that their insurers (umm, that would be the Church) will be required to pay for their birth control.
And Walmart is just going to hand you these pills, no questions asked?
Back when I used the Pill you had to have an rx for them. That required a fairly expensive doctors office visit.
I don’t give a flying Effe whether the Catholic Church employees people or some other group trying to dodge employment rules. When are they all going to decide paying FICA is against their beliefs.
My friends who live in Ocean Park, Washington live over an hour away from a Walmart. They have to cross over into Oregon. Not everyone who needs birth control live down the street from a Walmart. Its easy to be self centered but not everyone lives in a suburban or urban area.
Many of us have commutes that are over an hour. Big deal. And you don’t get issued pills just one month at a time.
Where is your outrage over the more pressing issues of women’s health, like heart disease? Women are misdiagnosed and therefore die more often than males; doctors dismiss their symptoms as depression, anxiety, heartburn, gas–and then they die. Men get thrown on the table, EKG done stat, and they are given lifesaving drugs. THAT’S my definition of a healthcare crisis–not that some student can’t drive an hour to get six months of pills so she can have sex.
@Emma
And you probably pass multiple Walmarts on your way to work…
Nice deflection from birth control pills, but you have a valid point about women’s health and the short shrift given it from many cardiologists. My sister was one of those dismissed by an emergency room-in-a-box type establishment as having anxiety only to visit a real emergency room the next day in congestive heart failure.
Emma has a very good pont. Alternatives exist under our free market system. The issue about seeing a doctor to get an RX is a weak point as that’s covered under a wellness exam or any other myriad of female provisions. Where to fill it and who pays is the real question.
Now we could also make the argument that govt regulations that tie RXs to a doctor and not a nurse or nurse practitioner also increase the cost of healthcare.
Or we could go one step further (I know y’all will say its crazy talk) and stop regulating the licensure of healthcare all together and see those costs drop.
Nurse practitioners can prescribe birth control, so there are always less expensive options than MD’s.
Isn’t it interesting how contraception has become the most important national issue? As if the voters will forget about $4.00 a gallon gasoline, continued war and a nagging jobless rate, because grad students want free birth control?
Marinm, I was in an auto accident last year. Since then, I enjoy a monthly hot stone massage, to the tune of about $100 each time. Marinm, that’s $1,200 a year! Yeah, I know I could just go for the prescribed physical therapy, but they don’t have the nice, soft music, the sweet lavender aromatherapy (which costs extra), and the awesome cupcakes in the waiting area. Marinm, I should NOT have to pay for those massages!
I pay for my own chiropractice services. Why? Because the AMA have lobbies the chiropractors out of the insurance business pretty much and it is such a pain in the ass for chiropractors to go through some insurance policies for long term chiropractic treatment that they just don’t take insurance from some patients. They only charge me $5 more than my co pay. They said its worth it not to get pecked to death by that duck.
So $40 a session 3 times a week times 52 weeks…..maybe I just wont get to go as often.
My point is, we all have something we think is important.
I have no problem if contraception goes into a co pay situation, especially if it would make everyone stop trying to make a religious institution not function as an employer. Institutions aren’t persons. The contraception ban as Emma and I both know is for individual behavior. Do Catholic hospitals serve meat on Fridays? Do 7th Day Adventists hospitals do tubal ligations? Vasectomies? Catholic hospitals are not consistent about these procedures.
@marinm
Or you could go to what most physicians I’ve talked to recommend – single payer.
@Censored bybvbl
Can you support that with a citation?
@Emma
Mark my words if we lose here the Church and other providers will be forced to provide gender reassignment surgery and a whole other host of procedures that the faithful would be against.
I was treated for my kidney stones both times by a NP who scripted me some really good drugs. 🙂 But, I thought Virginia was unique in that NPs working under a doctors protocol could prescribe and that not every state afforded that ability…
When we talk about the GP shortage I think that more of those GP duties should be pushed to NPs or Nurses that set up shop for general practice. Of course the CVS model works well also.
@marin
How do you feel about tubal ligation and vasectomy? Do you feel THE church which by choice, is not MY church, should have to provide that as part of the health care package?
This is getting soooooooo frustrating. Emma, those places offer only a limited number of BC pills. what about the women that don’t USE the pill???????????????????????????????
Do Walmart and target also do norplant? Deprovera? IUD insertion? I guess you have all the answers and the multitude of women out there who don’t have consistent BC due to financial stresses are just a bunch of morons.
Actually, the CVS model is horrible in my opinion. Having had a horrible experience with my son, I would NEVER recommend going there. The inablity for the practioners there to think independently caused my son to suffer more than he should have with a bout of strep that was treated improperly.
The reason this is entirely built on hyprocrisy is because is the churches approval of viagra. What a farce. they have no problem helping men get an erection, but helping women with their reproductive rights is unacceptable?
The Church’s reasoning is because viagra is used to have sex, not prevent pregnancy. Well, do they WHO the recipients of Viagra are having sex with? What if those women are on birth control? Are they not “wasting their sperm? Is sex always for procreation? Are they asking these men WHY they want viagra. What joke!
@Moon-howler
This has no impact on you if you are not an employee of the Church. If you are and disagree with the benefits package – quit. Find a new employer OR get coverage on the market OR pay out of pocket OR don’t have sex OR if you do have sex have it with someone that can chip in on the BC method the woman wants to use.
Women have a choice here. They may not like their options but they ultimately do have one.
@Elena, is this about women’s choice (or this farce of ‘womens reproduction rights) or your disapproval of the church’s doctrine? Cause I think you went off script if your going after them being ‘hypocritical’..
Those are not acceptable choices nor should they be to anyone.
I hope no one buys into the idea that you have to settle for less. There is absolutely no reason women shouldn’t expect contraception to be part of their health care plan. This issue is not one that can or should be compromised.
When we say compromised, think the full battery of prevention, from the lowly condom, to spemicides, to permanent sterilization. When we take it to that level, then we can say you are being denied surgery by your employer.
That is so bogus. It really isn’t just about women. Real men have vasectomies.
@marinm
I’m not going to name publically the four docs I see regularly or the health care providers in my family. I’d suggest asking your docs which service they favor – without giving any indication of your own personal preference first.
@marinm
If the Church offers prescription drug coverage, birth control pills should be covered. This whole brouhaha is political, not religious, in origin. It’s just one of the latest talking points handed down by the hierarchy.
This is about womens health Marinm and always has been!
“The reason this is entirely built on hyprocrisy is because is the churches approval of viagra. What a farce. they have no problem helping men get an erection, but helping women with their reproductive rights is unacceptable?”
There’s that old Viagra argument again. Many men take Viagra after suffering cancer and debilitating prostate surgery, in order to bring them back to some level of “normal.” It’s not all just fun and games for old guys. And there are alternatives to bc pills for women who have endocrine issues, because not all women can take on the cardiovascular risks that even small doses of the pill can pose to them.
Elena, you keep conflating the issues. This really is about your disagreement with other’s beliefs, isn’t it?
@Emma
Why the brouhaha now in an election year? The Catholic Church in NY State has been complying with similar regs for a decade. Why no whine and cry about freedom of religion until now?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/nyregion/catholic-institutions-reluctantly-comply-with-ny-contraceptives-law.html
Emma,
There are probably lots of reasons for viagra. The church SAID it was because viagra allows for sexual intercourse, as BC is for prevention. Just asking, how do they know the men using the viagra aren’t having intercourse with women who are knowingly on some type of artificial contraception.
And no Emma, it is about women having the right to modern medicine.
You and Censored have tag-teamed this whole topic for days now. Do you call each other to help gang up on your contributors? Sure seems that way.
Who is being accused of tag teaming with Cenosred? Elena or me?
Even if they are teaming up I don’t see them doing that good of a job.
This is about reproductive rights except that somehow religion is being argued and (Catholicism) seems to be thrown under the bus even though the Church does more in one day to help people than the haters could do in a lifetime to help the poor and sick.
The article posted above shows what will happen — women will lose access to OB/GYN and other healthcare professionals — when the church is forced to violate its own conscious. The Chruch would rather cut or terminate benefits.
What I see as amusing is that I think Emma and I are 100% ok with birth control (so we side with y’all on the left for that) but the idea of allowing government into our collective bedroom nightstands with mandatory coverage is something we can’t accept.
The government is trying by edict to do what it could not accomplish by vote. Censored is right – this is a push to force single payer without the fight that would occur if it were presented as such.
Catholicism isn’t being thrown under the bus. Catholics aren’t being thrown uner the bus. Church doctrine is being questioned and the place and position of church teaching is in question.
If anything, Catholics should be pretty darn mad. Many of the ones I have known over the years find a lot of fault with some of the the doctrine and refuse to abide by it. You might even say they were somewhat angry.
You can disagree with a church, your or someone else, without throwing them under a bus.
The Church does do a lot of good, as do many other churches. I fail to see what that has to do with it. I will even give it the grand kudo and that is it kept Christianity alive down through the ages until the reformation where it got a little help from others.
That doesn’t mean it is perfect nor does it mean that the Church is without sin.
Mandatory coverage doesn’t have to come into your bedroom. A trans-vaginal probe enters your bedroom space.
Marin, answer this for me. How come some Catholic universities have contraceptive coverage on campus and in health care for employees? How come that does not violate conscience? How come its OK for DePaul and not OK for Georgetown? I am not one of those people who just accepts what people say. It obviously doesn’t think that or we wouldn’s see such a dicotomy in conscience.
I actually think you are allowing your personal/political feelings about health care and ‘Obamacare” to color your feelings about the Catholic role in all this. I freely admit that I am letting my feelings about contraceptive availability to color my feelings about ‘Obamacare’ in general.
Please note, I am not necessarily in favor of FREE. I would be more than willing to have a normal copay pretty much like any other meds on a low tier. I am also a great believer in real men getting vasectomies. The fact that (inconsistent again) some Catholic hospitals don’t allow permanent contraception just burns me. Some women never think of something like that when they chose their hospitals. When they find out, it is sometimes too late to change birthing centers. Its very expensive to pay out of pocket.
@Elena
They also don’t do vasectomies or tubals at Walmart or Target.
————————————————————————————
I call Elena about the blog all the time. its probably a good thing that she and I agree on this issue.
As I have stated earlier, I will back off them when the opposition backs3 off.
Emma, actually I don’t understand what ‘side’ you are on. You are in favor of contraception yet you are arguing against what we are saying. Most modern Catholics disagree with the church on this issue. It would burn me up if my church tried to hold my soul hostage over an issue as personal as reproduction. That was one reaon both my father and my husband left the church.
Today on Facebook I saw some interesting commentary on about the Democrats stirring all this contraception up. Actually, the issue is several months old. i think it is the Mormons. here’s my theory. The Mormons stir it up so they can smooth sail in for the Republican nomination. If they can have the Catholics looking like freaks of nature, then no one will come after the Mormons who many evangelicals are suspicious of.
Pretty neat plan. Meanwhile they can all point fingers at the Democrats and give them the blame.
@Moon-howler Marinm explained my “side” quite accurately, and I thank him for that.
What makes me sad is where this blog has gone over the past couple of weeks. I have never seen such a level of disrespect towards a religion here–ever. Elena talks about women “having the right to modern medicine.” Elena, have you ever provided care to a Muslim woman? You have absolutely NO idea how challenging that can be. In so many cases, all of the medical decisions must be made by the husband, not by the woman. She is limited in the gender of the people who can take care of her, especially when the husband isn’t right there to chaperone. If hubby doesn’t like the sound of it, it ain’t happening for her. Talk about Stone Age, but we have to respect that and try our best to get her the care she needs.
It’s hard not to feel like your faith is being singled out and attacked. Deny it if you will, but a lot of the words have been very disrespectful. Sure, Catholics don’t follow everything to the letter, but neither do many Jews or other people of faith. We’re not perfect. But we love and defend our Church and really do feel it is being singled out and forced into providing things that it finds morally offensive.
Do you suppose that if Ms. Fluke were testifying for the rights of the unborn, and some MSNBC talking head called her a “slut,” that President Obama would have taken the time to phone her to make sure she was “OK”? The left would have vilified her and the Church’s stand on abortion.
@Emma, I suppose it is a delicate tightrope to walk. My old alterboy husband on occassion, when he isn’t being disrespectful about the Church or priests in general, has shown what I consider an abnormal paranoia. (in my opinion) Because I am not a ‘born again evangelical’ I have often been challenged and at time been told I am not a real Christian even though I am a member of a mainstream protestant church. I often feel like I am under assault by other people’s religion.
I found it impossible to discuss the sex abuse by priests issue because so many Catholics personalized that it was being discussed. A friend of my husband’s called our house and found out that my husband had no longer considered himself Catholic (it evolved and was a process, not an event) and spent hours on the phone bellowing and pleading that Howler had left the one true faith.
I guess the point of all this is basically that I think that the Church is very wrong from start to finish on the subject of birth control. I feel it is morally wrong to tell people who can barely provide sustinence for themselves, much less endless kids, that using contraception is a mortal sin. ON top of this, the Church has great wealth and could help end that povery. Yet…it can espouse anything it wants without my permission as long as it is directed at people who are Catholic.
I am not Catholic. In fact, I am a bastard in the eyes of the Church. Ok by me. The Church and it male heirarchy can tell their own flock to worship Mickey Mouse if they want. That’s their business. Here’s the rub, I have enough connections and have been to mass more than enough times to know that the teaching is for Catholic not to use artificial means of birth control to prevent pregnancy. The edict is not to use anything for prevention. That doesn’t mean you have to go out and keep other people from not using contraception. That’s how it has been explained to me. I think some people get overly zealous.
I don’t like a lot of things churches do. Right now its the Catholic Church. Next week it might be someone else’s turn. My church is far from perfect. Some dear sweet Jehovah’s Witnesses came calling about a month ago. They were polite, lovely people. However, I don’t want religion being sold at my door and told them. If they come back, I will tell them again. The Mormons know never to try.
So don’t personalize it. I don’t know why you think your church should be exempt from following the rules. I don’t if they are an employer of people outside the faith.
@Emma, Why drag MSNBC in here? Ed Shultz did call Laura Ingram a slut and he was removed immediately for doing so. there was no holw of protest or sponsors dropping like flies. The CEO suspended him for a week and he apologized, no ifs, ands or buts.
As for pro life life people on that station, have you bothered to learn the position of Joe Scarborough or Mika? Both are of that persuasion.
@Emma
It’s your church which has stepped into the fray by deciding that it wasn’t going to provide free birth control to women. It has been found to be wrong in state courts. It can either self-insure or obey the law when it comes to its institutional functions. No one is saying that the church as a sanctuary or religious unit has to do these things but when it enters the secular realm, it apparently must. Again, why the brouhaha now? Look at which party is crying about the war on religion. We’ll look back on this just as we did the PWC Immigration Resolution – as a political ploy in an election year.
I don’t need to tag team with anyone. If Elena or Moon-howler want to warn me to STFU, they can and I will. It’s their blog.
@Censored bybvbl Why, there you are again! Big surprise. You say “It can either self-insure or obey the law when it comes to its institutional functions.” Again, you show your ignorance here. The Church is large enough that in many employment situations it IS self-insured. Hence, the reason why Catholics think Obama’s disingenuous little “compromise” is utter bullshit. The Church will have to pay, because in many cases it is the insurer.
Emma,
I’m not sure what your muslim woman has to do with this discussion. Back to the topic. Jews don’t push their religion through public policy, if we did, you bet I’d be fighing back.
Viagra is the perfect example of hypocrisy. They will pay for medicine to give a man an erection but not for the woman to have dominion over her vagina? Nah, not buyin’ it. I bet if there were muslim institutions not willing to obey a policy, there would be public hysteria about “sharia law”.
Here is the issue. The Catholic Church entered the public employment sector a long time ago. Their students are from many varying religions as is their faculty. In my opinion, they have abdicated their sole ownership of control of people who are NOT in their flock. Period. No one is being FORCED to take BC against their will.
@Elena
I think someone out there expects blind obedience from women. For women like us, who assume reproductive freedom is a right, the past 6 weeksn have been particularly difficult. First there was the Susan G. Komen incident, then the birth control incident, an attack on contraception implicit in a ‘personhood’ bill, a trans-vaginal ultra sound bill, and finally, there has been all all out assault by Candidate Santorum spouting doctrine. He has ranted that contraception harms people and has hammered us with the dogma from his faith, which he presented as his own thoughts. He never mentioned the source but we aren’t stupid. Finally a law student was called a slut.
Yet people feel we are being unfair to religion. No, religion is eeking over onto my turf. We need for it to back off. The fight is disingenous and women are not going to roll over and play dead.
I read somewhere today about a female member of, I believe, the Washington State legislature who, in exaspiration, stated:
“If I wanted government in my womb, I’d f–k a senator” (sorry for the Rush speak)
Bedtime for this old lady, who wishes that religion would get a divorce from politics.
The F word isnt Rush Speak. I don’t have a problem with it. I just don’t like bathroom humor. Feel free re f word.
“Jews don’t push their religion through public policy,”
How did you type this with a straight face? AIPAC comes to mind. And the Muslim CAIR. And any number of religion-based PACS out there with significant money and considerable influence over policy. But it’s the Catholic Church that needs to be silenced.@Elena
@Emma
Here’s a suggestion for Catholics who don’t like having the government dictate insurance coverage – limit your colleges and hospitals to Catholics only – staff, students, and administrators. No government grants. See how that works out.
@marinm
@Elena, is this about women’s choice (or this farce of ‘womens reproduction rights) or your disapproval of the church’s doctrine? Cause I think you went off script if your going after them being ‘hypocritical’..
The hypocrisy is that active birth control is going on with Catholic men and women–right under the collective noses of the Church and yet they fail to acknowledge it. That is hypocrisy–pur e and simple.
Demands for yet another entitlement, demands for religous freedom, demands for their heads because he called her a slut, lets spin this up again, demands for full health care, constitutional lines crossed that have much more wide spread and long term import, demands for NO government intervention in the patient doctor relationship, demands FOR government intervention between the employer’s choice to provide health care and the employee choice to purchase health care, demands for market solutions and demands for government take overs of health care, dumbing insurance down to a common denominator without turning it into class warefare or just another transfer / welfare system. Your a hypocrit, NO you are
Do I want free health care for the rest of my life, sure, but I also know that there is no such thing. Either I will pay for it, you will pay for it or my grandchildren will pay for both of ours through the Bank of China. With all the talk of getting Social Security and such back under control, is this the time to force the Catholic Church to add another benefit that its hierarchy really opposes? What is the real point of this fight? I still beleive its about the ability of the government to impose insurance carrier requirements on anybody. Where does the government get this authority from? We are no longer talking voluntary standards. And, if this is ok, where does it stop or is the real goal to force Churches and businesses out of health care altogether so that the government can move in. That would be better given all the examples we have around the world, wouldn’t it?
” And, if this is ok, where does it stop or is the real goal to force Churches and businesses out of health care altogether so that the government can move in.”
Government does such a wonderful job when it gets down into the weeds, as we all have seen. I know many people here are HUGE fans of NCLB and would have LOVED to have seen it expanded. More recently, how about that Cash for Clunkers? The one that cost us taxpayers billions of dollars and raised the price of used cars beyond affordability for many Americans. I personally gamed that one big time, and it was great!
But seriously, none of this is about “reproductive freedom” or “access to contraception” or any of the lies the left is telling this week. it’s about a vastly overreaching government, and a president who often skirts the legislative process to punish his critics and reward his friends.
“Marin, answer this for me. How come some Catholic universities have contraceptive coverage on campus and in health care for employees? How come that does not violate conscience? How come its OK for DePaul and not OK for Georgetown? I am not one of those people who just accepts what people say. It obviously doesn’t think that or we wouldn’s see such a dicotomy in conscience. ”
Where a gun is put to their heads they protest. Tell me this. If a woman is being raped and asks for the rapist to wear a condom does that imply consent? Yes, that’s what I think is being done to my church.
“I actually think you are allowing your personal/political feelings about health care and ‘Obamacare” to color your feelings about the Catholic role in all this. I freely admit that I am letting my feelings about contraceptive availability to color my feelings about ‘Obamacare’ in general.”
This situation is one-in-the-same for me. An organization (whether secular or religious) being forced by government mandate to modify their benefits package with employees because of a regulatory edict makes me sick.
If I were to attend a Muslim school I would expect to have required prayers in a Mosque and that the cafeteria wouldn’t serve pork…
“I feel it is morally wrong to tell people who can barely provide sustinence for themselves, much less endless kids, that using contraception is a mortal sin. ON top of this, the Church has great wealth and could help end that povery. Yet…it can espouse anything it wants without my permission as long as it is directed at people who are Catholic.”
Fully 1/4 of US hospitals are connected to the Church. They provide services without regard for ability to pay. I think if you were to look at the record of the Church in assisting the poor and compare it to ..lets say the United Nations. I think the Church will win.
With respect to the use of contraception that’s ultimately the choice of the person. But, that individual choice should not require a mandate to the employer.
“I’m not sure what your muslim woman has to do with this discussion. Back to the topic. Jews don’t push their religion through public policy, if we did, you bet I’d be fighting back.”
Emma’s point was (please correct me if I’m wrong) was that Elena said that this fight is about modern medicine. So by pointing out how modern medicine is refused on a daily basis by a Muslim man for his wife/daughter/whatever that it’s not accurate to say that it’s a fight for modern medicine. Where are the people fighting to open up access to those women and by doing so getting in between that religion? Above we’re arguing who will pay for birth control but for many Muslim women they don’t even get general care let alone specialized medicines.
With respect to Jews pushing public policy……who was in town again meeting with our President?
“Here’s a suggestion for Catholics who don’t like having the government dictate insurance coverage – limit your colleges and hospitals to Catholics only – staff, students, and administrators. No government grants. See how that works out.”
Censored, your suggestion is illegal. A hospital can’t refuse to serve someone based on religion nor can they as an employer hire someone based on religion or lack of it.
Where the Church has a choice to provide services or submit to government edict sometimes they’ve dropped services. Who suffers? Not you as a person that’s well off. The poor suffer needlessly.
“But seriously, none of this is about “reproductive freedom” or “access to contraception” or any of the lies the left is telling this week. it’s about a vastly overreaching government, and a president who often skirts the legislative process to punish his critics and reward his friends.”
Huzzah!!!
@marin
I find your attitude very strange but it is your attitude/opinion.
I know that you have no problem with contraception because you said so and that you have no problem with in vitro, also frowned on by the Church. I am going to take this a step further and suggest that you obviously don’t agree with your own Church about such matters.
Well if YOU don’t agree with them, how do you think **I** feel?
I am not asking the Church to change what they tell their flock. That’s their business and no one 18 and older is forced to be any religion they don’t chose to be.
You and I will just have to disagree about mandated health care. I don’t think you have looked at the financial aspect of the problem. We can’t have 40 million uninsured people in this country. It simply isn’t sustainable. The national leaders realized something must be done when I was a young person. You got Medicare. NO one was able to push it further, despite best efforts.
We also cannot sustain endless kids that must be paid for by the govt. An ounce of prevention….
Meanwhile, I will continue to call anyone who opposes contraception pro-abortion. If it offends them, tough crap. Opposing contraception offends me, big time and it offends me on a very personal level.
@marinm
“Here’s a suggestion for Catholics who don’t like having the government dictate insurance coverage – limit your colleges and hospitals to Catholics only – staff, students, and administrators. No government grants. See how that works out.”
Censored, your suggestion is illegal. A hospital can’t refuse to serve someone based on religion nor can they as an employer hire someone based on religion or lack of it.
RIIIIGHT! There are obviously areas that have government oversight. If prescription drug coverage is offered, don’t discriminate against women. What do you want? For us all to somehow grow penises so that we would all have the same physiology and could receive medical care in assembly line fashion? I don’t think most of us would like that.
Hee hee – the Republicans keep adding to their list of hated groups. It was kind of stupid to pick a group which comprises half the population. Contraception, as Moon-howler has often pointed out, is more than just spacing children or avoiding having them. For women it’s the means to be able to compete economically in our society.
@Moon-howler
“I am going to take this a step further and suggest that you obviously don’t agree with your own Church about such matters.”
Correct. But my personal decision stops at me and my family. I don’t force that decision on the Church. I don’t force them to do something they don’t want to do. I’ve made my decision and that decision has zero impact on the Church.
IIRC you mentioned earlier in another thread that your children had mentioned that you weren’t PC enough in your own home and you retorted that if they don’t like it – they ought leave. I think the same should be said here. If an employee, student or anyone else is not happy with the benefits package they get from the church they can go elsewhere. If they don’t like it – leave.
We did. Leave, that is. However, I see a huge difference in a church functioning as a church and a church functioning as something else. They will have to pay FICA, Obey Hipa laws and other state laws that affect business. Health care is just another one of those things.
Furthermore, the church is not consistent. You can’t have partial compliance.