109 Thoughts to “President Obama speaks out on Trayvon Martin”

  1. SlowpokeRodriguez

    I don’t find the President’s words offensive, and I haven’t been paying attention, but I haven’t heard many other than Newt who do. I think Obama is taking a leap by assuming what his son might look like. The only offensive comments I’ve heard are the ones from MSNBC and the comments from representative John Lewis on CNN yesterday. Lewis’ comment were offensive on account of sheer ignorance. The kind of ignorance that negatively impacts anyone who hears it. But I saw nothing wrong with Obama’s comments.

  2. kelly_3406

    The President was okay until he got to the part where he said “if he had a son he would look like Trayvon Martin.” This had the effect of injecting race into the discussion. The real tragedy is that a young boy was lost, regardless of what his race was. Obama diluted that message needlessly by bringing race into it, particularly when it has yet to be established that race was even a factor.

    Of course, the President had to know that his words would inject race into the discussion. The question is, was that by design?

  3. Thanks to both of you for a response. I kept getting ‘offensive presidential words’ and I’ll be damned if I could hear them.

    @Kelly, race is very much in it. This situation, in fact, is permeated in race. I don’t think whatever the president says makes it more or less so.

  4. Elena

    I think I will go with what Joe Scarborough said “anyone who doesn’t think race had something to do with this simply isn’t be honest with themselves”. If it had been a black man with a gun, shooting a white teenager carrying skittles and a soda, I firmly believe this would be a different story we were discussing.

    Oh, and since none of us are black, I don’t think we can actually imagine WHAT it is like to be black. I dated a fairly dark skinned black guy and I can tell you, the stares we got were simply ridiculous. He would tell me all the experiences he went through, like being followed in stores, like being pulled over, etc etc. He was a college graduate, father a lawyer, mom a professor, but black is black.

  5. SlowpokeRodriguez

    For the last time, people…..whitey wasn’t anywhere near this scene. Whitey was at home. It was a hispanic shooting a black kid….if you want to spin it around, it would be a black kid shooting a hispanic. Leave whitey out of this for once! Whitey wasn’t around on this one.

    1. @Pokie,

      Don’t fathers count? George’s father is white. The last name is anglo. What does it matter anyway? None of us were talking about white people.

      I don’t think that the Martin family would be any less upset if all the principle players were black. It was handled incorrectly. Period. From start to finish.

  6. marinm

    Sorry on my iPhone. Agree with Slowy here. You white people are pretty much in the clear here. This was minority v minority.

    Unless of course that means we browns are finally white in which case I want better mortgage terms….

    President was talking to his bad and mobilize the black vote. It’ll work in the end.

    1. I never thought for one minute the Prez was thinking about politics when he made his remarks. I think he chose his words carefully so as to not compromise the case and so he didn’t throw gasoline on a bonfire.

  7. marinm

    *base. Damn autocorrect.

  8. Twinad

    I think I will go with what Joe Scarborough said “anyone who doesn’t think race had something to do with this simply isn’t be honest with themselves”.

    Have to agree 100% with this sentiment. Just don’t see how there is any other lens to view this situation through. And if Zimmerman’s Dad is white, he is as white as Obama is black, right?! I’m white; my husband’s Latino. He’s as much a “Whitey” as he is Latino.

  9. kelly_3406

    Why is everyone so anxious to jump on the race bandwagon? I read this afternoon that someone saw Trayvon Martin beating up George Zimmerman. If true, this would support self-defense. Other significant facts are sure to come out as well, so it is way too early to conclude that race was a big factor. As we have seen in the past (e.g. Duke Lacrosse team), the initial narrative is often wrong.

    1. Kelly, what makes you think of the Duke Lacrosse team? No was raped in Florida or accused of it. We have a dead boy who was unarmed. Does that bother you?

  10. Second Alamo

    How about they post some photos of Zimmerman when he was 12 years old just to add a little boyish innocence to his profile to match that being displayed of Martin. Not that Martin has ever done anything wrong, but the side by side photos look like a setup. You mean no one has a more recent photo of Martin anywhere? Why is that?

    1. He has a baby face, according to his family. The photo of Zimmerman is a mug shot from a previous encounter on the wrong side of the law.

      Zimmerman isn’t in custody. We have a dead kid here. He was killed by a 28 year old man with a gun who should not have had that gun during neighborhood watch. The Shooter followed the victim. What’s wrong with this picture?

      We all have the same information. Why are some of us bothered and some of us not. I have a son and a step son. They are no longer teens but once I heard this story I would be less than honest if I didn’t admit, ” There for the grace of God go I.”

  11. I get the distinct impression that some of you all are trying to lessen the impact or somehow blame the victim. Not sure why that is.

  12. Emma

    There’s no denying it’s a tragedy. It’s just that some of us still subscribe to the “innocent until proven guilty” theory of American justice. We don’t know all the facts, so we’re not willing to buy the amped-up narrative that the Sanford police acted “stupidly.” We just don’t know that yet.

    1. Its pretty difficult to prove someone guilty if they are never arrested or brought to trial. Something has broken down.

      How do we prove him guilty or not guilty? What would happen if no one protested or raised hell? Nothing.

      Catch-22? Sounds like it.

  13. Second Alamo

    Remember, this happened a month ago, not the other day. I would expect that the news would be able to get more details than they have reported. My first impression of the story was that someone on neighborhood watch duty used his car to chase down and then shoot and innocent kid walking in the neighborhood. Well, as it turns out Zimmerman was driving home when he spotted Martin, and that is why he was in his car. It also turns out that there was a fight before the shooting. Those two pieces of information paint a very different picture from my first impression. Just because everyone has committed themselves to Zimmerman’s guilt based on little info doesn’t make it so. After all, OJ had a mountain of evidence against him, yet many of those same folks who are now parading in the streets were professing his innocence. That was a travesty of justice also, but it came down on the side of those parading in the streets, and so they celebrated at the innocent verdict. Should we then celebrate if Zimmerman is eventually tried, and found not guilty?

    1. Do you have special news piped into your house that the rest of us don’t get? I knew Zimmerman had been roughed up. So what? I fail to see your point. Obviously there was an exchange. One of the people is dead.

      Dead unarmed kid, dispatch recording, parent lives in the community. Kid with medical examiner for 3 days even though the police had the cell phone and all the records that a cell phone entails.

      That’s enough right there to not just dismiss the case. Zimmerman should have been detained and brought in for questioning.

      @SA

  14. Emma

    It won’t be possible for Zimmerman to get a fair trial, now that the President has done his share of race-baiting.

    1. What is it that you heard that you considered race baiting? I have listed 5 times. I heard nothing I would consider race baiting.

  15. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    @Pokie,
    None of us were talking about white people.

    So we are all on the same page…from post #4:

    If it had been a black man with a gun, shooting a white teenager carrying skittles and a soda, I firmly believe this would be a different story we were discussing.

  16. Second Alamo

    Remember, Obama is half white, and so isn’t there a slight possibility that if he had a son he may not look exactly like Martin? Now THAT would be a hoot! Oh yeah, I guess if Zimmerman is white-hispanic, then Obama is white-african.

    1. SA, Why this obsession with proving that 1. Zimmerman was somehow justified. 2. Obama must have done something wrong.

      BAsed on what Obama’s other 2 children look like, I think it is safe to assume that if Obama had a son, he might look like Trayvon. Geez. SA, I know you have a daughter. You have shared that. Do you have a son? I have a son, and at night HE would have looked like Trayvon. Anyone who has a son, I would think, would have had a quick flash back to the son at that age and how it COULD be your kid.

  17. Second Alamo

    Mississippi State shooting: “Witnesses and dorm surveillance cameras observed three African American males fleeing the scene in a blue Ford Crown Victoria, Kibler said. The three suspects are not believed to be students, he said.” Hmmmmm … now tell me again why we are so suspicious of some people? I only hope the victim wasn’t white. I’m too tired to have to parade around the streets protesting this violence against our white youths.

  18. Second Alamo

    Moon, so when Obama said that his son would look like Martin was he not only referring to skin color, or was he saying that he would actually look like Obama, big ears and all? Now I’m confused. I thought for sure it was purely a racial connotation.

  19. SA, can you not see past the fact that Trayvon is black? It is the series of events that cause his case to be so problematic.

    There are 10 things, at a minimum, that send up red flags all over the place, the fact that the shooter was never taken in for questioning being one of them. If the shooter had been real law enforcement he would have been benched temporarily, just as SOP. The shooter is still out there, walking around with his weapons.

    Why are you comparing the Trayvon case to the MSU shooting? What does it have in common? hmmmmmm….black people. seems to be the only common denominator.

  20. Emma

    If Obama’s statement was not racial, let’s just imagine for a minute one of the Republican candidates saying the exact same thing…

    1. So you are asking Obama now to pretend that he isn’t half black? That’s some pretty strong denial and some pretty incredible cojones to now demand that Obama not acknowledge he is black or half black. Think about what you are saying.

      I just said my kid would have looked like him at night.

      RAcial? We have a dead kid here who was called an ‘effen coon’ on tape to a police dispatcher. Let’s just stop all the cameras right there. Who in their right mind feels comfortable saying that to a dispatcher? Shouldn’t that have been a red flag right there? We don’t call people effen coons even if that is what is in our minds. We just don’t. Not in 2012. Just having decent manners prevents it.

  21. SA, Actually, as a parent, I thought my kid would have looked like him also, at night.

    I wouldn’t try to read much of anything other than empathy into what Obama said. Clinton would have said he feels their pain. George Bush would have tried to find consoling words. Obama expressed his. I see nothing wrong with what he said.

    I am reminded of April 16, 2007. We are all Hokies. March 23- We are all Trayvon.

    National outrage and reaction to something that should have never happened.

  22. Emma

    There is no solid evidence that Zimmerman described Trayvon as an “effen” anything. Let the forensics people figure that out for sure. But let’s just string the poor bastard up anyway. Wanting to wait for the facts to come out before hanging Zimmerman does not diminish sorrow for loss of young life, no matter how many times you say it does, Moon.

    1. I would just prefer that Zimmerman be brought in for questioning. I don’t wish him dead. Not even close. Then there would be 2 sets of parents without their kid.

      My ears are a pretty good judge of what I hear and don’t hear. Unless the tape has been altered in some way, there is enough evidence to at least bring the dude in for questioning.

      Funny that no one is talking here about that Stand your Ground law in Florida here. Also Virginia didn’t show up nas one of those states on Fox News.

      What is to keep someone from luring someone into a fight so that you could legally kill them?

  23. Second Alamo

    Moon, I didn’t make this a racial issue, and I don’t think it is, but the media and all those marching are sure trying their best to raise it to that level. All this pouring over the audio recording trying to pull out racial slurs from a mess of noise. Yeah, like it’s ok to shoot someone as long as you don’t call them something beforehand. Ridiculous priorities by the media and society. I’m just trying to mock this whole racial side of the argument. I said it once before that race shouldn’t matter, and you asked me how could I not consider the fact that Martin was black. In a truly non-racial society it wouldn’t matter.

    Here is a great example of how being PC can endanger innocent people. If I had a child at MSU I would want as much information about the suspects as possible so that my child would know who to avoid, and also possibly help in the apprehension. By not stating in some of the reports that the men were black they have endangered others through lack of information. That sucks!

  24. SlowpokeRodriguez

    I really would have thought that the “elfin coon” thing would be getting a TON of attention. But sources both left and right are ignoring it. I like the “effin unintelligible” caption every time they play the 911 call on TV.

  25. Lafayette

    Agreed, Slow. I think that’s very telling. I’ve not heard that term in quite a while. I must say I was rather shocked to hear that phrase in 2012 and by a hispanic. I guess he picked that term up from his white father.

  26. Second Alamo

    “I guess he picked that term up from his white father.” Profiling are we?

  27. Second Alamo

    “The shooting victim has been identified as John Sanderson of Madison.” My profiling abilities tells me this victim probably wasn’t black. Lets see how the news media, the president, and all the outraged people in the streets address this one. Uncle Al, uncle Al, another tragic shooting for your non-violence cause. Yeah, right! Just pointing out the hypocrisy in all the outrage. Make no mistake the outrage is racially centered all else aside. We shall see if people rally against this tragedy as well.

  28. @Lafayette

    The coon slur is not Virginian, or at least according to my mother. It just isn’t/wasn’t a racial slur that most Virginians used, at least in the piedmont. She had never even heard it until after the war.

  29. Bear

    @Moon-howler
    Moon is the only one who “gets it”. I know you guys are having fun with the race thing but the real problem is with the crazy law who allows you to shoot anyone you think might attack you.
    Mrs. Bear agrees with me which hasn’t happened in 30 years.

    1. And when Mrs. Bear agrees, everyone ought to listen.

      We can’t shoot first and ask questions later. That belongs in the world of ready fire aim.

    2. Well, then there is the Manassas thing. This Zimmerman guy apparently has the Manassas curse. (Sorry Big Dog–make that Manassas area.) You know, the place that brought you the sniper and the Bobbits. Even the neighborhood watch guy for all America was the Manassas chief of police.

      But other than that, I agree.

  30. Elena

    Here is what we know, a grown man, non to small, is chasing a teenager. zimmerman admits to it on the 911 call. This kid thought maybe zimmerman looked dangerous. From the girlfriends statement, Martin tries to get away from him thinking this person has only a nefarious intent. What the final mintues look like, we will probably never know, but this grown man pursued a kid who had skittles in one hand a soda in the other. These parents have lost their child to a senseless death. I would look at that stupid crazy gun law first. How do we prevent such a tragedy from happening again? THAT is the question everyone should be asking.

  31. marinm

    It’s not the gun law at all. It’s intellectual dishonest to blame this law that also protects a woman that’s being raped from prosecution because she shoots her attacker or a man thats being mugged.

    The facts in this case are still not known to us and everyone is making leaps based on what little is known or assumed.

    But I can tell you one thing. No law – a self defense or a law that requires you to stand and die – will change anything in terms of human behavior. The law isn’t the issue here.

    1. It should be no secret that many of us believe there is too much access to guns by too many people.

      I think it is also intellectually dishonest to suggest that the only way a woman being raped can protect herself is by legislating some of these gun laws. They aren’t needed. The gun lobby uses too much fear. Somewhere there is a happy medium.

  32. Elena

    So what is the issue here Marinm?

  33. marinm

    Elena :
    So what is the issue here Marinm?

    Allowing the judicial system to work based on facts. I think that’s something we can all agree on.

  34. Twinad

    It is blowing my mind that some people are now trying to turn it around on the guy who is dead. To the poster that is wondering where the more recent photos of Trayvon are…I can only assume that you are insinuating that more recent photos of him would reveal him to be a big, scary black man, right? One that would warrant a call to the police? I hadn’t heard the “effin coon” language…always learn something new on Moonhowlings. If true, that is even more outrageous.

    The dispatcher clearly told Zimmerman to let the police handle the situation, correct? From what I have read and heard, that is a clear fact. So to me, for him to follow him or provoke the now dead guy in any way was Zimmerman’s fault. Had he not been out looking for trouble, he would not have found any. The kid was walking back to a house that he had every right to be walking to! Walking while black has never been and never will be a crime. Had Trayvon been allowed to continue on his way home with his Iced Tea and Skittles without a call logged to the police, and without the “assistance” of a neighborhood watch zealot, everyone goes about their business and there is no tragic news story. The End.

  35. Lafayette

    I’ve only heard whites use that term. (my personal experience). Who said he dad was a Virginian? Oh he lived here at one time doesn’t mean he’s a Virginia native.
    Anyways, honestly have enough of discussing this stupid story and have taken shit for it.

    Well, I have my own opinion. And I will no longer share it here, only to have to defend. Sometimes you know more than you wish you did. 🙄

    C YA!!

    1. Huh? Which stupid story?

      I just commented that the expression wasn’t used in central Virginia. I didn’t say by whom. I was just chiming on the expression, which I have been told isn’t really native to the area of Virginia where I am from. Afraid I don’t see the problem.

      Lafayette, I am not aware of anyone giving you shit over anything having to do with the Trayvon story.

      Would you be specific so I can address it.

  36. SlowpokeRodriguez

    And finally we see it….the left’s twisted attempt to blame the law and the gun for actions of a human being and use it to attack the innocent citizen’s right to defend him/her self. This is where the left overplays its hand and loses any broad support. I’ll go this far: there are a lot of really stupid people who are legally entitled to carry a firearm, both criminals and otherwise innocent people (like our suspect in this case). But the left’s answer to disarm law-abiding and truly innocent people (especially women) against the stupid attackers is not something I’m willing to do just yet. Until then, we have a man who probably displayed the worst possible judgement, and if that’s the case, I hope he pays the appropriate price. I know the left would stop at nothing to disarm women against rapists, but I’m not willing to go there too.

    1. Pokie, am I “the left?” If yes, then feel free to use the name Moon. I am not yet the status of Voldemort. I have never suggested disarming law abiding citizens. I said I thought too many people have access to firearms. I didn’t say I had a solution. I wish I did.

      I don’t give enough of a crap to go back and quote myself exactly but I really am tired of scare tactics to broaden access to weapons even more. Women and rapists come to mind. I don’t know one woman who has gone to prison for shooting her potential rapist.

      I grew up with guns in my home and I have always been a gun owner. I don’t like guns, however. I really don’t like guns in the hands of people like Zimmerman. Guns can give people a false shot of testosterone or something that turns some of them into faux cops or faux military mentality. Its a bad mix. What’s the answer? I have no clue. Every jackass apparently thinks he or she is perfectly sane and has a right to own a gun. If you tell them they aren’t sane, they shoot you. Just kidding on last sentence.

  37. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Clarification: My words could be mistaken as saying criminals are legally entitled to carry firearms. I’m actually right, but I know a lesser intellect would pounce on that statement, being incapable of nuance. A criminal mind can easily be legally entitled to carry a firearm, up to the point where he commits the crime, then he loses the legality. Our suspect here probably was legally entitled to carry a firearm, and probably misunderstood self-defense law and likely envisioned himself an actual sworn public official and mistakenly gave himself a license to kill.

    1. @pokie, I agree with the last sentence. I even have a name for that phenomena…based on the name of someone I used to know with the same delusions.

      I thought only felons lost the right to carry weapons? Criminals of the misdemeanor sort never lose that right do they? So criminals can legally carry weapons.

      Pouncing here……..

  38. Second Alamo

    Just a reminder, anti-gun laws do not apply to those who willingly disregard the law. It just so happens that many who disregard the law are also the very same people who commit crimes using guns while law abiding individuals are left defenseless. In short, the only people left carrying guns will be the criminals. Can you say field day!

  39. Second Alamo

    Well here we go, three black guys shoot and kill a white guy at Mississippi State University, and today CNN only has a video posted. They no longer have a text article, and the video doesn’t mention the three were black. They’ll just sweep it under the rug while sensationalizing the continuing outcry over the hispanic on black shooting in Florida. Great left handed reporting at best.

    1. SA, you have got to be kidding me. Surely you see the difference?

      There is violence daily in this country. Are you keeping score by race? You are sure going to come away with a very incomplete picture if that is the case.

  40. Second Alamo

    Tell that to the folks in the streets. Do you honestly think that those folks in the streets would be there if Martin was white? Come on, you know better, and no I don’t see the difference. I only see the difference in how the story was reported. Death is still death, and no one deserves to be murdered, so how many innocents are murdered by thugs every day but get no rallies in their support? Think about it!

    1. @SA,

      Across the nation? Probably not. Locally? Aboslutely. Did you see the crowd the day that Casey Anthony was not convicted of murder? It was huge and people of all races were demonstrating.

      It isn’t just about race. Do you think hispanics don’t kill blacks ever day? And vice versa. Whites kill blacks and blacks kill whites. It was the particular details of this case. There were about 10 red flags that somehow all got buried, either by stupidity or incompetence or willful neglect.

      SA, you might want to ask if Zimmerman were black would the outrage be as great. I think that would be a far better question.

      Meanwhile, every day in this country, black kids are killed, by whomever. Sometimes those kids are engaged in criminal activities and other things that get ya killed. But often they aren’t. Sometimes decent kids who are doing nothing wrong get killed or injured or arrested because of perception, stereotype and because someone ‘assumes’ they are up to no good. [translate: they see a black kid and it automatically translates into thug.]

      I believe, as a colorless person, that is what the black community is uniting over. As a member of the majority race in this country, I don’t feel that I have the right to speak for them though. In many ways, I have already over-stepped my bounds. However, I do know it isn’t about tally marks on raw data.

  41. Blue

    The crazy meter is moving into the dark orange here. No, there is no reason for anyone in a community racked by recent robberies and vandalism to consider a black kid walking in a hoodie on a dark rainy night as suspicious. And No, we must agree here that it is totally inapprorpriate for a neighborhood watch volunteer to watch such a kid from his SUV while calling police – clearly on his cell. – as if that posed a threat to the young man who then runs. Of course the decision to run through several back yards would not suggest that there is something to hide in a gated community. He is not exactly “on the streets.” He was not chased so folks really need to get a grip. He was cut off, when Zimmerman drove around and came out in front of the running kid. It is interesting that so many on this site and in the protests assume that Zimmerman attacked or tried to detain Martin. There is no – zero – evidence of that. Yes he got out of the SUV and approached Martin. As his lawyer said on TV, if Martin had simply said he was staying with his fathers girl friend and walked home a tragedy could have been averted. What he did instead is the focus of the debate and clearly Zimmerman gets a broken nose, gash on his head and grass stains on his back. But wait, the police must all be biggots too because they did not investigate or question Zimmerman. Do you really believe that? You don’t know that, but lets be clear here again, this is not about the tragedy so much as it is about the gun politics and the Administration using it to get their base out going into an election. This is why the DoJ is involved. So lets just hang the guy – but not until his black eyes clear up a bit.

    1. Blue, are you George Zimmerman? Only he and Trayvon Martin were in the position to know exact details and Trayvon is dead.

      If you aren’t Zimmerman, then you are simply blowing smoke and a wannabe. If the crazy meter is moving, it must be because it’s reading your biometrics.

      Your first major gap in logic is that Zimmerman had NO authority. Martin owed him no explanation.

  42. marinm

    “Just a reminder, anti-gun laws do not apply to those who willingly disregard the law.”

    You got that right brother. Otherwise Washington DC, Chicago, NY and LA would be safest places in America.

    “I thought only felons lost the right to carry weapons? Criminals of the misdemeanor sort never lose that right do they? So criminals can legally carry weapons.”

    Felons cannot carry weapons unless those rights are restored however they can generally use a firearm in self defense or in defense of others and escape prosecution. The same laws apply – they ought not have been the agitator, they were defending themselves or another, that the amount of force used was approrpiate, etc.

    Slow is right. I’m with you all in letting the system work its way through and making a determination based on the idea that the state must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman committed a crime. Where I depart is in any way adjusting, blaming, dismantling, or otherwise messing with existing laws on self defense especially as it concerns Florida or access to firearms generally. At that point you lose me.

    “This is why the DoJ is involved.”

    I read somewhere that even DOJ is signaling that any racial angle to this case will probably be a loser. But, let’s see what the FL Grand Jury says…

    1. I don’t think anyone here has called for changes in the law. I am not even sure what it really says and I am not a lawyer.

      I find the entire situation suspicious. If there is a law that allows someone to lure or coax another into a fight so they can be shot, scot free, then I might change my mind on that.

  43. Blue

    @Moon-howler

    Well, I am not Zimmerman, but insulting me is not going to get you or any of us any closer to the truth. The frustration here was expressed by interviewers and by Zimmerman’s attorney this weekend. It is extrodinarilly more difficult when one side goes PC viral in public and the other has to reserves itself for the judicial system. Have you ever had a lawyer tell you or a family member(s) to shut up? Its not a comfortable position to be in.

    As to the logic gap, Zimmerman had no authority to detain. I beleive he knew that, all neighborhood watch volunteers know that – its on the card. However, he had every right as an adult resident and given the behavior already exhibited to ask Martin who he was and what he was doing. He should have also advised him that the police were on the way. We don’t know if he did or not, but he knew it.

    1. Blue, you have a nerve talking about anyone else’s manners.

      You really have created a scenario that you know nothing about. Zimmerman really had no authority to interact with the kid at all. I don’t know what you think he was doing. Obviously you are trying to insinuate he was up to no good. I am not so sure what a kid with an ice tea, skittles and a cell phone can do that is so bad.

      Neighborhood “racked” by robberies and vandalism? Got any evidence of that? You obviously have some biases in this case.

  44. marinm

    @Moon-howler

    “I find the entire situation suspicious. If there is a law that allows someone to lure or coax another into a fight so they can be shot, scot free, then I might change my mind on that.”

    That is not covered by the law. However, generally if you do instigate or its a mutual argument or combat situation if a person disengages and attempts to retreat/flee and the other party will not give up the fight and you feel your life is threatened then lethal force can be used under self defense laws.

    And yes, that toolbag of a US Senator from NY is wanting the Federales to step in and change self defense laws across the states.

    So, given your scenerio even if Zimmerman was in the wrong (assumption) and a fight occured wherein Zimmerman was overwhelmed and attempted to escape or give up but Martin continued to fight Zimmerman could then use lethal force to stop his attacker.

    It’ll be interesting to see how the Grand Jury rules and what evidence, if any, is released at that time.

  45. Censored bybvbl

    @marinm

    So, given your scenerio even if Zimmerman was in the wrong (assumption) and a fight occured wherein Zimmerman was overwhelmed and attempted to escape or give up but Martin continued to fight Zimmerman could then use lethal force to stop his attacker.

    The big hole in that argument is the fact that Zimmerman got out of his car.

    1. That to me is goading into a fight. @ Censored. I have a problem with that. That is like the hit me hit me and then when someone does, have them arrested.

  46. marinm

    @Censored bybvbl

    Actually it’s not a hole at all. I will bold it to make it easier to understand.

    So, given your scenerio even if Zimmerman was in the wrong (assumption) and a fight occured wherein Zimmerman was overwhelmed and attempted to escape or give up but Martin continued to fight Zimmerman could then use lethal force to stop his attacker.

  47. Rick Bentley

    The discussion should have been about self-defense laws. Or about neighborhood watch laws. Not about this narrative of “weraing a hoodie marks you for death” or “that kid looks like my kid”. The President has contributed to that narrative and it’s not befitting of his office.

    Is this what America’s come to? The hunger for proof of racism is so enormous that a case like this becomes a huge national story? Even though we don’t really know what happened?

    Is there no real and obvious racism in America to use as an example? Or are liberals so hungry for such evidence that they need to figuratively lynch this Zimmerman guy? This is absurd, to me.

    And again, the Sharptons and Jackson and the FOX News-types of the world continue their symbiotic relationship that manages to make black Americans look like whiny perpetual victims. And Obama chimed into it, unable to lead, because – not for the first time – he saw the event not objectively but through the stereotypes in his head.

    1. Which stereotypes in his head, the black ones or the white ones?

  48. The spin gets better and better. It took several days. A tough guy goes from testosterone to mouse boy in 3 days. Zimmerman should have started on that mouse defense back on Feb 26.

    I will gladly eat my words if I am wrong but…I don’t think I am.

  49. Rick Bentley

    The stereotype in Obama’s head is that the guy named Zimmerman shot the kid named Trayvon because he’s scared of black kids in hoods.

    And previously he showed us the stereotype in his head of the white police officer looking to harass the black professor.

    1. Do you think part of that is the black male syndrome? None of us on this blog, that I have met, at least, can really say what it is like to be a black male.

      I have talked to several black men who are so far removed from anyone who someone might suspect of being a thug who have assured me that the black syndrome is most definitely real. I am speaking of professional men who make scads of money. I believe them. The conversations were held long before this was an issue; years ago in fact.

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