Just what is it that so many contributors find offensive about the President’s words?
109 Thoughts to “President Obama speaks out on Trayvon Martin”
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I don’t think we’re ever going to agree we know well what happened that night. Why this became a current flash point for race relations is, to me, the bigger story.
I am looking for consistency at this point. Two things have been consistent. That tape and Al Sharpton. I am generally NOT a fan of his.
Yup, proudly calling myself a “coon-ass.” Give me a break!!!!
Unanswered questions:
Where are the medical records if Zimmerman had head injuries and a broken nose?
Why weren’t his clothes taken?
Why was Trayvon listed as a John Doe for 3 days?
Why didn’t the police go door to door?
Why didn’t the police call the last number on that cell phone or get a data dump from the phone company?
Where did this Joe Oliver come from and why is he now being trotted out?
Why does the story keep changing on Zimmerman’s side?
Interesting take on the Martin-Zimmerman case from across the pond.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html
Folks persuing others (especially while armed, and having been told to stay put by police dispatch) kind of give up that claim of ‘self defense’, don’t they?
Hi Ed, I am so glad you have decided to pay us a visit and I hope you will stay.
I agree. Regardless of how the spin goes, we still come back to that rascally tape. I heard what I heard.
FYI, you should be able to post here at will without moderation now. Sorry for the wait.
Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to stay in his car. Should he have gotten out? No. But we still don’t have all the facts about that, either.
So which is the bigger offense, getting out of your car to try and see what someone may be up to, or continuously slamming someone’s head into the ground even though they are yelling for help? Perhaps Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of his car, but then Trayvon shouldn’t have continued to beat Zimmerman either. You have to ask yourself why Zimmerman chose to yell for help even though he was armed. If he was as trigger happy as the news would have you believe he would have pulled his gun immediately, and yet he yelled for help for nearly a full minute until he was out of options. If you are so close behind someone as to be ‘stalking’ them, then how do you lose sight of them in the first place?
SA, you what else did you see while you were there as an eye witness?
That is sure some speculation you have going on there, that really smacks in the face of the evidence we have.
Zimmerman was told not to follow him. Pretty simple. If someone was following you and if they confronted you, how would you handle it?
The president was the Parent in Chief in his remarks. He was speaking to the parents as a parent.
Remember George Bush after the VA Tech Massacre? He was the Parent in Chief that day also. He spoke as their dad. Good for both of them. I don’t think anyone criticized him. I wish I could say the same for Obama.
@Emma, he apparently was under no legal obligation not to follow someone and shoot them dead either. That is the problem.
He was a vigilante and that is why people are in an uproar. People are challenging the Florida Stand Your Ground law if it allows this sort of thing to happen with no consequences. Ice tea can vs gun.
Confusion regarding the Zimmerman lynching apparently continues and depends on what you read and when with both sides looking for what they want to hear. The Zimmerman side is finally and I suspect illegally now coming out, the Sanford Cops are leaking their self serving views and except for getting a good recent picture of Trayvon, the Martin view of the story is about the same. What still bothers me is that I think I would have shot at the first punch – I know I would not have waited until my head hit the pavement the second time. Also, I am concerned that this case is going to make it harder to defend yourself, when you really need to and good folks are going to die while being attacked. I do not think I will do neighborhood watch anymore. I will protect mine, you Liberals do the best you can. OK full disclosure – I still think Zimmerman is the good guy here. Women also need to consider this carefully for the precedents that this event sets in attacks on women – or should the rules be different in that case?
Blue, I don’t think getting punched in the face when you are stalking someone is really unexpected behavior.
I am shocked that you are equating fists to guns. Trayvon was unarmed. You would have shot an unarmed kid? Its probably a good thing you aren’t going to be doing neighborhood watch.
You have this preconceived idea that people who don’t want unarmed kids shot and killed are liberals. I suppose if that is the definition, then I am.
Ok this whole thing has become a circus, with the Rev Al and the Rev Jesse leading the pack. These guys have more than just a little responsibility here for keeping a lid on this thing, asking folks to wait for the facts, doing their best to not inflame, not liable and to not mislead. Zimmerman needs to sue these guys, Spike Lee and the Panthers for putting his life in danger. Their actions have very much been akin to yelling “FIRE” in a crowded theater. Hell, they are running around yelling FIRE with a can of gasoline in their hands.
Blue, first off, I am not a big Sharpton fan and I can’t stand Jackson. However, if Al Sharpton hadn’t gotten hold of this nothing would have happened. Trayvon has been dead over a month. What do you think was going to happen? Nothing. You are aware Trayvon was listed as a John Doe for 3 days. No attempt to find his parents, even though they had his cell phone.
I would like to see Zimmerman sue. Make my day. I would like to see Mr. and Mrs. Martin sue. Zimmerman is at best a coward.
The DOJ needs to get involved with the Panthers. What they are suggesting is criminal. They are an outlier, as usual. They do not fit in with the rest of the activists who simply want justice for a dead kid. Zimmerman was acting as a vigilante and he bit off more than he could chew. If he hadn’t been playing cop, this would not have happened. He could have easily called the police and sat in his car until they got there.
“Zimmerman was acting as a vigilante…”
Wasn’t Martin acting as a vigilante when he attacked Zimmerman? Using your logic — “He could have easily called the police and sat in his car until they got there” — should not have Martin called 911 and reported a “stalker” and kept pace to maintain distance from this “threat”?
“I am shocked that you are equating fists to guns.”
How many sexual assaults or assaults against the LGBT community occur without any weapons displayed? Do we forgive those because a gun is not involved? Is it ok to beat up a transexual because it was only fists or bashing a person against the ground?
“What still bothers me is that I think I would have shot at the first punch – I know I would not have waited until my head hit the pavement the second time.”
If that’s true that makes me tend to believe Zimmerman. Use of force is a last resort. That only one shot was fired also makes me think he was in fear for his life and shot to stop the threat.
“I do not think I will do neighborhood watch anymore.”
That’s sad but I can understand that. Legal liability stops a lot of good people from doing the right thing..
I believe he was shot 3 times but I wouldn’t swear to it.
You know, I have to just come out and say it. I am really disappointed that a dead kid has turned in to a political issue.
More than disappointment, I am very disgusted that people feel they can just shoot at will.
From everything I know about this case, and remember, several of the major players have Manassas roots, this was a case of man who couldn’t quite make it as a cop so he played at being a cop. He got in over his head and now we have a dead kid.
Marin, you don’t know that kid didn’t have a gun in his face. Use your logic. what would YOU do? Hang up and call the cops? I don’t think so.
Ever known a vigilante? I have known one of those also. They are very dangerous people. They lack training and they don’t have to really hold any responsibility, unless things go bad.
“Marin, you don’t know that kid didn’t have a gun in his face. Use your logic. what would YOU do? Hang up and call the cops? I don’t think so.”
I would not bring a bag of skittles to a gun fight. I assume everyone is armed and treat people accordingly.
If someone is following me and I’m unarmed I wouldn’t confront them. That to me is is asking to be stabbed or shot. Again, I assume everyone is armed.
“…I am very disgusted that people feel they can just shoot at will. ”
That’s never been argued as such. People have said over and over again that the law requires you to be in imminent danger. Proactively brandishing a weapon is against the law. The only way the defense can be triggered (pardon the pun) is for Martin to have been the aggressor. That’s whats lost here. Assuming the police/states attorney did their jobs they believed Martin was in the wrong and Zimmerman was in the right.
I have no issue waiting to see what the Grand Jury says. I just don’t see this case going Martin’s way based on what’s leaked out..
1 kid, unarmed, no criminal record.
1 adult, armed, criminal record.
Not sure how an armed minor is a vigilante against an armed guy pretending to be a cop.
Zimmerman was TOLD to stop following the kid. He pursued him and Trayvon NEW he was being followed, it makes sense the kids would be afraid. Zimmerman looks substantially bigger then Trayvon. We will probably never know what happend in those final moments. Did Zimmerman show Trayvon he was armed? Was it Trayvon who was scared and compelled to defend himself from this overzealous neighborhood watch wanna be cop?
If this were my son, I would be beyond furious. Maybe for a moment instead of disengaging emotionally from this topic, posters here should imagine that Trayvon is their child, carrying skittles, shot dead by a self egrandized wanna be police officer.
“Maybe for a moment instead of disengaging emotionally from this topic, posters here should imagine that Trayvon is their child, carrying skittles, shot dead by a self egrandized wanna be police officer.”
Do you want our laws based on emotions or on evidence?
“Was it Trayvon who was scared and compelled to defend himself from this overzealous neighborhood watch wanna be cop?”
So, self defense is OK or is it OK only when think that person is deserving of self defense? As other posters have pointed out any erosion of self defense laws needs to be carefully thought about because those laws generally protect the weak from the strong. They defend victims.
Also, why is iy ok for Martin to defend himself against Zimmerman but not the other way around?
Everyone should be able to defend themselves. No one should have to kill to do it.
Moon, every thing I stated was from the information given to date. So I can’t draw conclusions from eye witness info, but it’s ok for thousands to protest on the initial sketchy info. Facts given were Zimmerman got out of his car (police recording), Zimmerman said he lost sight of Trayvon (police recording), Trayvon was seen smacking Zimmerman’s head into the ground/concrete (eye witness). Now please tell me where my post #9 is the least bit incorrect, unless of course you’re taking the OJ defense that everyone involved have instantly created a story line to falsify what happened, and yet all the evidence revealed so far fits. I guess you can choose to not believe anyone as the OJ jury did.
Self defense is stopping someone from causing you bodily harm, not inflicting bodily harm on someone after that person has stopped being a threat. One shot, possible self defense, empty the gun and it becomes something totally different. Knock a person down and run, self defense, jump on them and continually pummel them while they yell for help (eye witness) and that is something else.
I love it, a bunch of middle aged white people demonstrate against the actions of the administration, and they are labeled a hate/terrorist group by members of the administration and paraded as such in the media, yet the New Black Panthers can put a bounty on someone’s head, and hardly any coverage from the media. Pathetic! Where’s Eric Holder on this subject? Oh that’s right, he’s the one that wouldn’t go after them during the voting encounter.
@Second Alamo
Sorry to disappoint but I always thought OJ was guilty. Let’s leave him out of it. He has nothing to do with this case.
Eric Holder has no business making public comments about this case since DOJ is involved. To do so would compromise the case.
The DOJ ought to also be all over the New Black Panthers. Putting a bounty on anyone should be illegal. I have seen alot of coverage about this. No one thinks it is a good thing.
Have you seen the latest police tape that someone released? He sure doesn’t look real beaten up to me.
I am not sure we have actually heard those police tapes you talk about. I think we have heard about them
What middle age white people are you talking about? I must have missed them.
SA, I think you are trying to define this case by listening to the extremists from both sides. You have a brain. I have a brain. Can’t we look at things and digest it ourselves? I am very uncomfortable with what I see and what I know.
Let’s leave OJ and Duke out of it. Mr. Howler is evaluating some of this through the Duke Lacrosse team. That is really extraneous information that has no bearing on this case.
Moon, I’ve clearly heard Zimmerman on the police recordings, and also the statement by the eye witness John. No extremist views involved at all. As far as the video, I may have seen a clip last night if it was shot from above in a police garage or something. I recall it was stated that the EMTs on the scene cleaned Zimmerman up before he went anywhere. Look, if you don’t believe the police when they documented Zimmerman’s injuries, then you have to believe they are conspiring to frame Martin as the attacker. Once again this brings in the OJ defense, as much as you say he has nothing to do with this case. I’m just bringing up the parallels in some people’s beliefs. My biggest beef is that even if you consider Zimmerman as the aggressor in the beginning, you must then consider Martin as the aggressor in the end when he was beating on Zimmerman as per the eye witness, and yet no one will admit this.
As to my post #26 … can you say Tea Party?
Interesting, I remember everyone protesting complaining why wasn’t Zimmerman taken down to the station for questioning instead of being let go at the scene. Well, guess what, I don’t know where they got there information, but obviously he was hand cuffed and taken to the station. He was treated as any other person black or white would have been. I heard a protester on the radio bitching about why Zimmerman simply was allowed to go home, why wasn’t he taken down to the station, etc. etc. This video, if it was that same night, clearly disputes many of the protester’s reason for outrage. I will admit that I don’t see much evidence of personal injury as had been reported, and so that has to be explained to me as well. Even if he was cleaned up I would expect a patch on the back of his head or something. Hopefully this isn’t a video of one of his previous encounters with the police being paraded as the Martin case, and hopefully that is actually Zimmerman.
I’m somewhat puzzled about the video, and the reports about what happened. All the reports described Zimmerman as wearing a red sweater. The video shows a red and tan jacket. How can anyone look at that and see a red sweater. That needs to be explained. Also, the guy’s head seems more rounded and narrow compared to Zimmerman’s mug shot. The mug shot shows an almost square head where it is as wide from side to side as it is tall from chin to top. Maybe it’s the camera.
One more thing, if Zimmerman wasn’t arrested, then what is this guy doing in hand cuffs? I guarantee you that if this is Zimmerman in the video, then it will eventually come out that it is from a previous arrest, and yet the news media is running with it big time. Mark my words. Just stoking the fires!
I have no idea. @SA
Maybe that is their rule for transporting anyone. I do not believe he was ever arrested though.
You really want your guy Zimmerman to be innocent, don’t you. I am trying to figure out why.
@Moon-howler
I conclude that you have never done a neighborhood watch as promoted by the PWCPD. It is offensive to suggest that neighborhood watch constitutes illegal or inappropriate stalking – whether conducted from the car or walking in the neighborhood. Likewise, it is perfectly appropriate for a neighborhood watch to investigate suspicious behavior and avoid undue alarm and police dispatch. That is very different than trying to apprehend and it is a difference that has been lost in this discussion. He reported both his suspician and his activity and by his account complied with the 911 dispatcher. You seem to want to believe (need to believe) that he chased down and confronted Trayvon. There is no evidence of that and he reported it differently and in a way that comported to the facts on the ground and witness statements reviewed by the police. Unless they too are bigots and in a conspiracy against Trayvon, I think I will go with that.
As for walking in someone else’s shoes, I await your report of a night when a 6’3″ kid in a hoodie approaches you. The standard that you have set out is very high to not brandish a weapon, to retreat as best you can and then wait for your mugger to act and, then, to confirm whether youir mugger is armed or not, and allow the simple beating to continue if unarmed and await help. We do not want such an unarmed kid shot. It does not have to be while on neighborhood watch, just walking in the early evening – say 7:30 pm or upon opening your door. It happens every day. I think care needs to be taken here to give someone who is willing to do neighborhood watch a little benefit of the doubt. I am sure you agree that not getting involved or the fear of getting involved is the reason for so many of our problems.
Captain Tutko clearly said that a neighborhood watch person was the eyes and ears only. They were not to carry a weapon including mace nor metal flashlights.
I think it is you who has decided to thugger-ize Trayvon. You use verbs like approach. The kid had no weapon, there is no evidence at all that he approached Zimmerman. Zimmerman outweighed him by 100 pounds and was armed.
I have watched and listened. You apparently missed the video.
Blue, I had 6 foot kids in hoodies approach me every day of my life. I didn’t act like a kitty cat over it.
As for neighborhood watch, I prefer that people who are going to go by the rules serve on neighborhood watch rather than people who seem to want to write their own. Its the hot dogging that gets people injured or killed.
A hot dog or 2 worked my street for a while. One of them felt they had a dual purpose working for neighborhood services. Ours never came around and introduced themselves so I assume they don’t exist now.