Do you agree or disagree with Morning Joe Scarborough? Things got real quiet around here when that police house video got posted. Why must the death of Trayvon Martin be political? Why must it be a conservative vs liberal side?
Are people being fools?
Joe has essentially become a bad running joke among conservatives, but in the end, we understand who signs his paycheck. I would by lying, however, if I didn’t acknowledge a certain joy watching the left take political damage from politicizing the Martin shooting. And as is ALWAYS the case, whatever the left does, they immediately accuse the right of doing it. Everyone can easily see it’s Rush Limbaugh in Florida calling for civil unrest…oh…wait….it’s Sharpton. HAHAHAHA!!!
Pokie, I gotta hand it to you….you will try to salvage this one regardless. Why is it a political issue? Why is it a left/right issue?
I don’t know about you but I see what I think might be a govt. cover-up? You trust the govt to always tell you the truth? I am seeing the Sanford Police dept or state prosecutor or both as having something to hide. It almost sounds like Mafia to me.
Did you see Zimmerman all beaten up? If Trayvon was on top of him beating the snot out of him, how come blood didn’t run all over him when he shot him in the chest at point blank range? How come the undertaker didn’t see signs of a fight on the kid?
Tell me again why this is a right/left issue? I am not getting it.
Conservatives have real problems with the idea that a kid could get killed by another citizen while a month goes by with no apparent reaction by the justice system. Who knows what really happened, but the known facts dictate that a very hard, thorough look be given to why a life can be taken without much apparent legal process. This is a clear law-and-order issue in which the Conservatives are strongly in the camp of a thorough investigation of the circumstances of the event.
I think the reason that the public reaction is so peculiar is that the facts of the case pull in two issues that have attracted a lot of nouveau/faux conservative attention. One issue is gun rights and the other is the idea that deadly force should be at the beck and call of every walking around civilian. We are in the very early days of Constitutional clarification that bearing arms is an individual right not limited by participation in the militia. We know the state can impose reasonable regulation of that right, but the right has been clearly stated by the Supreme Court to be general and individual. One would think that, having that right established, groups like the NRA could go back to gun safety instruction. Instead, we have a proliferation of aggressive measures at state level to make walking around guns commonplace AND (one shudders at this in particular) statutory revisions in the Common Law that make use of guns in civilian encounters more, rather than less casual. My guess (and it is only a guess and I could be quite mistaken) is that Zimmerman’s psychological profile is that he is one of these disturbed people whose fragile personna gained some internal enhancement from carrying deadly weapons daily. He also probably had a mindset (confirmed in my mind by his gratuitous remark to the police dispatcher that one hates to see these [insert vulgarity] get away) that shoves all humanity into two categories of the Righteous (his team) and sub-human scum (Tryevon’s team). Put the deadly-force-in-your-pocket together with the Righteous/Scum dichotomy mindset, and you’ve got a very dangerous dynamic that is probably considerably more widespread than the streets of Sanford, FLA.
I repeat my modest proposal: If we are to have universal gun ownership, repeal all concealed carriage laws and require that guns be carried in plain view. There is no good reason for concealed carry. Those of us who choose not to carry weapons daily should be able to know at a glance who’s got weapons and how many weapons are in a public place. Law Enforcement would probably appreciate having instant ability to assess that situation also. If I have my kids in a Safeway and see that there are a dozen firearms in the cold cut section, I want the option to leave.
Second point: If we have universal weapons carrying and ownership, for God’s sake don’t relax conservative, traditional constraints on the use of deadly force in self-defense. If weapons are, by virtue of Constitutional protection, becoming commonplace in daily life, ensure that citizens have a sense of how carefully deadly force must be exercised.
Third point: Vote out of office (with no right of return) any legislator who ever supported one of these completely goofy and unnecessary “Stand your Ground” measures. Completely reckless and irresponsible. Why should someone, especially given our enhanced access to firearms, not have an obligation to try to resolve a dispute without resort to deadly force?
Fourth point: demand legislation requiring that all weapons carriage (other than law enforcement personnel) be open and visible at all times. If nothing else, it will weed out the borderline neurotics who carry guns for the same reason babies such their thumbs – because it reassures them psychologically. If people have to display their insecurities and neuroses in a way that gives their fellow citizens a chance to keep their distance, fewer people would be walking around armed with deadly weapons in their day-to-day lives.
All my proposals are completely consistent with respect for the Constitution, the Second Amendment as recently interpreted, and my battle tested conservative instincts. And I can, additionally, still weep, at least figuratively, over the tragedy of this kid getting killed over nothing. That doesn’t mean Zimmerman may have been defending himself lawfully – who knows what happened? It does mean, however, that Zimmerman could have prevented the death by going home and watching Dancing With the Stars of something.
Yes, because we have an epidemic of lawful yet neurotic permit holders murdering people by the hundreds on a daily basis.
Oh wait, no we don’t.
Scout, as usual, you did not let me down. Bravo!!! I cannot think of anything you said I don’t agree with.
Thank you. I wish all the conservatives here saw things your way.
I am concerned that some here see a left and right issue. I see a dead kid, legal system tap dancing, 2 sets of parents who are going to be down a kid and a lot of frustrated people. I don’t even necessarily think it is about racism. I think it is about what you said.
The irony of the pecking order hasn’t been lost on me. The parents were mighty quick to trot out the Zimmerman minority card also. Scout hit the nail on the head, however. with his description of weapon enhancement. Women have a different express but that one serves in polite company.
The only correct conservative position is that there needs to be a very thorough investigation coupled with a transparent explanation of why charges are brought or not brought. Beyond that there’s no conservative issue in this fact situation other than concern over the loss of life and concern that neither party be tarred unfairly in the public debate without knowledge of the facts. Conservatives value process and consider the protection of life one of the highest goals of government. Conservatives also abhor arbitrary applications, misapplications, or non-applications of the organs of justice in government at any level. That’s why conservatives are keen champions of individual civil rights, the acts and words of many phony conservatives in the 1960s (and even today) to the contrary.
Re Treyvon, I think the legal system is working properly now. The problem was the initial reaction at the local level. It may well be that there is insufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman. But, prior to the public outcry, one could not perceive whether the system had engaged in a thorough, optimally informed process of working that out. I hope that if, at the end of a competent investigation, it is determined that there is insufficient information to charge, people will calm down and accept that the process was honest.
It isn’t a left or right issue. There are just a lot of people who self-identify with those ends of the spectrum but who have no real idea what the philosophical underpinnings of either element really are. There’s no conservative value in thinking that a dead kid killed by another citizen probably had it coming. There’s no liberal value in thinking that the shooter could not possibly have had legitimate reason to fear for his life (although the presently known facts indicate that the confrontation, whatever it was , could have been avoided entirely if Zimmerman had buzzed off).
By the way, in my last paragraph of the previous comment, I meant to say “That doesn’t mean that Zimmerman may not have been defending himself lawfully . . . .” I think that was clear from context, but it does make a difference.
Cato – what’s the constitutional, legal, policy justification for concealed carry? And, do we need murder epidemics? Is it not enough that a citizen might feel a need to know how many guns are in a space before he chooses to enter? Would it not be reasonable regulation to require these weapons to be in plain view? Would you expect fewer or more people to carry if they had to do so openly?
Scout,
It’s settled law that carry is a right. For a 5’1″ 130lb female (or people of similar physical attributes), concealed carry is a safety issue. Your suggestion is a solution in search of a problem, the very thing you so vociferously object to in your previous post. We get it – concealed carry offends your sensibilities, but please don’t act like an idiot when you so clearly aren’t one.
So concealed carry is a height/body weight issue?
Bearing arms is a right. It’s a right subject to reasonable state regulation. Concealed carry is not a right. The State could reasonably require weapons to be carried in plain view.
The problem is that at a time when more guns are in circulation, I can’t make objective determinations about how prevalent they are, and neither can any other citizen. I’m a gun owner, have been for many years, but I don’t want my family to be in a space full of them on people whose temperaments and backgrounds are unknown to me. That doesn’t impinge on those who choose to carry.
What’s the constitutional, legal, or policy justification for concealed carry, Cato? Don’t respond by saying I’m acting like an idiot. Also give it a better shot than talking to me about little people.
Scout, I really have no interest in prolonged debate with you on the matter, as you’re far too sanctimonious for me. If you don’t understand how a small, elderly woman with an 800.00 piece of hardware on her hip is a prime target for a robbery or an assault then we have no basis for a discussion. If you want to make the argument that the criteria for CCW issue should include psychological screening, fine. Make that argument, but your right to peace of mind doesn’t supersede grandma’s right to be secure in her person while exercising a constitutionally protected right.
Cato,
Lest we digress from the event before us. Do you have children? I do, two, as a matter of fact. Maybe you should try envisioning yourself in Trayvons parents shoes.
This is what we know for sure with the advent of the video tape post murder of a teenage boy.
There appear to be no cuts or bruises, no blood, no scrapes, no nothing on George Zimmerman. Where are the ferocious wounds on the back of his bald head given the story that Trayvon was smashing his head into the pavement?
If my child child, and if you have children, lets imagine yours for a moment, were killed with skittles and soda, wouldn’t you be outraged? Where is your concern for the lack of process that has clearly been omitted from the death of a teenager?
George Zimmerman was TOLD to stop following Trayvon, had he, in a moment of lucidity, instead of relying on his faux extension of manhood to protect him, allowed the professionals to deal with his concern regarding a stranger, a human being would be alive today.
Period. End of story.
Oh, and just to add a completely irrelevant point, we are gun owners in this house. I have fired more than one gun in my life, they don’t scare me, but I absolutely appreciate their power.
@Elena
I had no idea that forensic video analysis was a talent of yours. All kidding aside that tape proves nothing. He could have been cleaned up at the scene by the EMTs. While I’m concerned at the apparent quality of the initial investigation, and extremely concerned that the responding officer allegedly didn’t buy the story and wanted to make the arrest but was rebuffed by the prosecutor, you’ll pardon me if I decline to participate in the circus of sputtering outrage until the investigation is complete and all the facts are revealed. I think the concept of stand your ground is worthy of review (again, to me this seems like a solution in search of a problem re: stand your ground laws) but again if you’re going to suggest that the response to this incident involve a radical restructuring of how we conduct the CCW process here in Virginia then you’re going to need to present evidence of a clear and demonstrable problem with our current system.
Cato,
Thanks for NOT answering my question. That speaks volumes.
What we know is that an unarmed kid with skittles and a soda was murdered by an armed man with NO authority. Precisely because of the ineptitude of how this case was handled, we are left wondering why a teenager is dead and a grown man with no visible wounds is walking around bereft of ANY charges. Nah, I believe that a human life is worth more, especially if this were my child. See how that empathy thing works, you might want to try it.
@Elena
I answered your question precisely. It seems to me there was some slipshod police work involved. I’m happy a special prosecutor is looking into the matter more closely.
You can keep your empathy, I’ll stick with logic and reason. Empathy has no business in the same sentence as justice. If it turns out that this was a vigilante nutjob that was just looking for an excuse to pop someone then I’ll be happy to join your army to make sure Zimmerman gets the chair – I’d even throw the switch myself. But lets find out what actually happened first.
Cato,
I can’t even really tell what point you are arguing. Sane gun laws are meant to protect us all. Scout was making logical conservative points and yet you argued. Not sure why.
So far, we have a showcase of liberal misunderstandings, misinterpretation, and living by emotion and not logic and reason. I do like the “there is a gun in this house” point. Kind of like the “I have a friend who is black so I can’t be accused of racism” argument. We also have one of my all time favorite points…..”I wish all conservatives thought like liberals”…that’s classic. Good stuff!
Elena making the determination the Zimmerman committed murder is another classic. You’d make a hell of a lawyer!!
If it weren’t for some pretty determined folks, the kid would have been buried and the parents would have to wonder for the rest of their lives.
The state very much can regulate how guns are handled. I agree with Scout who is amost sacred cow status on this blog. I have always found him to be a reasonable person. I think he understands what I always considered conservatism to be, you know, the kind before a party was attached to the term.
Slow,
The point I am making is that this case was handled incredibly poorly. Why aren’t you bothered by that? If this were your kid would you not be yelling from the roof tops?
He was following a kid he didn’t know in his neighborhood. Zimmerman said he had something in his hands, called him a “fucking coon”. He was a black teenager carrying skittles and a soda. Zimmerman was a grown man carrying a gun around like G-d damn cowboy!
What would you do if some guy were following you as you walked to your parents or a friends? Does Zimmerman come out of his truck big assing, looking for a fight? Is his gun showing? Does Trayvon think HE is going to be attacked by Zimmerman? He’s neighborhood watch for goodness sake, NOT a police officer. That some people on this blog are purposefully ignoring the facts we DO know is unfathomable.
I look forward to having a trial. Maybe some astounding new information will come out, but right now, all we have is a dead teenager shot by come idiot with a gun.
“He’s neighborhood watch for goodness sake, NOT a police officer.”
If he was shot and killed by a police officer in the same circumstance would you even care?
Answer this very simple question. Do common citizens like you and I enjoy the right of self defense even if it means that we may slay our attacker?
He was following an unarmed kid LOOKING for trouble Marinm. HARDLY self defense. And NO, citizens have rules they must follow and kids with skittles, walking to their parents house, does NOT count.
So, to be clear you and I as common citizens have an obligation to die at the hands of those that would do us harm. We must just stand there and take it. We should comply with the brigand and not resist being mugged, raped, or killed. We must not risk injuring our attacker?
Have I clearly captured your position on this?
Butting my nose in…..No one said you and I have an obligation to die. How absurd. Why does everything have to go to extremes?
Zimmerman now says he wasn’t patrolling for his neighborhood. Then what was he doing out there going after an unarmed kid? Why was he involved? Why was he following the kid? Why didn’t he do what the dispatcher told him to do?
it sounds to me like he was big-assing. As I said, I have known several people like this and they all fit the pattern. The worst one had dogs and guns. he scared everyone, started rumors about crime and thugs so his services were needed. If the community is that bad, hire security and take out a huge risk policy. Untrained people should not be doing this kind of patrolling.
Stop Marinm, you are making no sense. Citzens have the right NOT TO DIE at the hands of some neighnorhood watch moron carrying a gun pretending to be Dirty Harry!
Give me a break, your drama is way over the top. Who suggested not defending one self? Maybe it was Trayvond defending himself against a nobody who was following him fully armed while all he had was G-d damn bag of skittles and a soda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No drama. I asked a very simple question and you responded with, “And NO, citizens have rules they must follow…”
“Maybe it was Trayvond defending himself against a nobody who was following him fully armed while all he had was G-d damn bag of skittles and a soda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
That’s unclear right now. We don’t know who the aggressor was. Was it Zimmerman or Martin? I don’t know. But, regardless of who the aggressor was I support the right of the victim to use force – including deadly – to fend off the attack.
There is a whole school of thought out there that Americans don’t shoot unarmed people. If someone is unarmed, you fight with your hands. That statement came from men, several of them.
This wasn’t a gun fight. It wasn’t a knife fight. He shot an unarmed kid. Forget all the defending himself crap. He sure didn’t look any worse for wear at the police station.
I have dealt with these self appointed cop wannabes before. Tbey aren’t trained and have no business in any sort of role of authority. There is talk now of suing the community and the HOA. After all, they hired the heat. This HOA “neighborhood watch” which wasn’t really part of the Neighborhood Watch program was not registered with the national group. I guess that is why they didn’t feel they had to go by the rules of the game.
I would not be at all surprised to learn that organized crime is involved at some level.
Am I mistaken, or isn’t it the rule that there will be photos taken by a PD photographer at a murder scene? Isn’t it the rule that a perp be photographed as soon as he has been taken into custody – mug shot? Are there any photos besides the UTube film?
If Zimmerman was pinned to the ground, how could he fire his supposedly concealed gun?
How could a youngster of slim built be able to throw a much larger man to the ground?
If Z. shot Martin with Martin on top of him, why wasn’t Z’s shirt and jacket covered with Martin’s blood?
@Punchak I don’t know. re photos. One would think.
I asked myself the same question as your last one.
However….i am battling bad nausea from the earth grinding to a complete halt and then rotating backwards on its axis. That happens on here sometimes.
Tonight I went a snooping. Imagine my horror to find out that I actually agreed with part of a posting Greg put up on this subject. Good for him for posting it. There is too much bravado going around everywhere. He quotes Philip Van Cleave if VCDL.
Remember, this is Virginia. No one has to go through a background check if it is private sales.
I obviously do not agree with the gun lobby.
You guys have to decide what you are opposed to, concealed weapons,conservative/liberal values, inept cops or dead kids.I vote for dead kids.BTW I live in NY and have a concealed permit.It is incredible difficult to be issued one. Requires references, FBI search, finger prints and approved by a court. I seldom shoot anyone and only carry during occasions when there could be danger (like a Dairy Queen where teenagers wear hoodies and baggy pants and eat their ice cream with sprinkles)
@Bear
A baseball bat would probably be more effective at the DQ.
The Skittles-and-soda thing packs quite an emotional punch, doesn’t it? But it shouldn’t be the basis for changing laws that primarily impact law-abiding citizens, especially before all the facts are even known.
And fight with my hands? I wouldn’t stand a chance against an attacker. I punch like a girl.
@Emma,
He (person who said that to me)/did preface that with “men.” Funny, you almost never hear of women shooting unarmed or innocent people. @Emma
I guess if you are male and carry a gun you never have to get your hands dirty.
The undertaker also said he had seen to signs of a fight. I didn’t realize that there was make up to put on skinned knuckles etc.
We don’t know that Trayvon was minding his own business. That’s about the only thing we don’t know though from adio tapes and video tapes. We do know that he was unarmed. We do know he was shot and we do know there was no sign of a fight other than a gunshot wound.
I think we should always consider changing laws if there are loop holes large enough to drive a mack truck through. There is something clearly wrong if you can have a case like this where an unarmed kid is shot, not one contact his parents, and allow the shooter to just head on home. Clearly wrong.
If a Police Officer shot an unarmed youth – there would have been more of an investigation than there was in this case.
What was the crime witnessed? Walking while wearing a hoodie, and looking thugish.
Who was the aggressor? The kid walking back to the house – or the person following him from the comfort of his car
Somehow, Zimmerman ended up out of his car, and confronted Trayvan – not sure why Zimmerman chose to get out of the car. But, the confrontation happened.
Who was standing their ground? Put your self in Trayvan’s shoes for a moment – this white dude who has been following you in a car gets out and confronts you. What would you do? I have not seen any reports of the confrontation that occurred – and I do not think the Police department investigated it to see if there was a witness to the initial confrontation. For some reason, Trayvan chose to fight back – it was Trayvan that was Standing his Ground – to an armed perp who stalked him, approached him and started a confrontation.
Why did it take three days of effort on the Dad’s side to locate Trayvan? He had a cell phone on him – did any PO even try to make a call to any of the numbers on the phone (including calls that were immediately before the shooting?) (This is really outside the scope of the incident). This whole case has been mishandled from the Police Department to the Prosecutor to the Florida Attorney General.
The Media (at the urging of the parents) have taken this case and made it national news – it should not have gotten to be national news.
Did the prosecutor already make the decision to not charge Zimmerman – or was the decision made to let a grand jury decide? Just because Zimmerman was not arrested and charged on the spot does not mean that Justice was being averted.
Emma,
I suggest you take a Martial Arts course. You don’t have to “punch like a girl” if you are trained properly.
The skittles and soda IS the point Emma. Trayvon was minding his own business walking back from the store to his dads house. Zimmerman pursued HIM having been told by the dispacher to stop.
Read Pat’s point, I think it really adressed the crux of this issue.
“Trayvon was minding his own business walking back from the store to his dads house. Zimmerman pursued HIM having been told by the dispacher to stop.”
Well, that sounds definitive. I hope they call off the investigation on the strength of your eyewitness report.
@Emma, Trayvon, according to Zimmerman, was looking suspicious and like an effen coon. We can’t have that!
Emma,
We do have some information. Zimmerman called 911 and reported a susupicious “fucking coon”. He was told to STOP following him. He chose to take on the role of dirty hairy apparently, because as a neighborhood watch volunteer, he should have the power to do so.
We know that a teenager lay DEAD in a morgue, for three days, with only skittles and a soda to show for his crime.
We have seen a video of a grown man, shaved head, immediately after the death of Trayvon, and there are NO visible wounds, cuts, or abrasions.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
Sorry, that answers nothing. I’m not going to take the word of some “expert” hired by a newspaper to come to some predetermined conclusion. The bias is obvious. But thanks for the recap, anyway, since the left has been distorting the facts so quietly all week long!
@Elena
I was going to say, I thought I had read that voice recognition has been around since WWII.
I am not sure what people want, at this point. I am pretty sure I know what Trayvon’s parents want. Other than them, I am not sure anyone else really matters.
@emma
I like your old picture.
What is it that the left is doing and who is the left, in your opinion. Do we mean the black community? If yes, then let’s just say the black community.
I refuse to see this issue as a right/left issue. It really isn’t. I know there are conservatives who deny that Zimmerman is at fault. I haven’t figured out that one yet. Those same people seem to want to peg Trayvon Martin as a thug and somehow use the hoodie as the mark of whatever is wrong with the black community and anyone else who emulates the black male youth.
I also understand that the black community is all up in arms. I understand that. These feelings did not grow up in a vacuum and they have a long history of being fed by deeds. Many of us see and understand their point of view. The black community has lost too many of its youth to violence. Too many blacks, especially males, have been targetted, profiled and been disrespected by law enforcement, nation wide.
By the same token, this same community has often glamorized gansta look and behavior and idolized the hug a thug mentality. This must also stop and stop immediately. It leads to nothing good.
While I am on my soap box, the entertainment and sports star industry could take over right here and lead by example. Basket ball stars don’t need to be caught carrying guns and weapons and too many of them act like thugs in a suit. Set a decent example for all kids. Rappers, both black and white–the same! Clean up your act. Stop giving people a reason to justify some of this talk.
Here’s why it pays to wait until the facts come out:
This is why I’m not willing to abdicate our legal system to media distortions, speculations and consultations with “experts”. There’s always more to the story. And wanting to get the real story doesn’t negate compassion for the loss of young life. Life just isn’t that binary for me.
Sorry, forgot the link to the above: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?tid=pm_pop
Stepping down off the soap box…..all of that could have waited I suppose. It really doesn’t matter in this case. We have a dead kid and a really bungled police case. We cannot have armed private citizens tailing unarmed kids.
Let’s throw this into girl gear. What is Trayvon was a girl? What if there was a girl out in a hoodie on a rainy night in late February in Orlando, and an armed hispanic looking guy started following her while she was on the phone with a friend. What should she have done? What have we told our daughters to do? I said Hispanic-looking on purpose. Lets all be honest with ourselves.
Do we tell our daughters to stop and see what the nice man wiith the gun wants? I don’t think so. I think we have told them to run, call the cops, go to a neighbors house, etc. MOst of all, we have told our daughters to always resist people like that and to fight, claw, scream, kick, dig, gouge eye balls, crotch kick etc. Never let someone take you anywhere or demand that you go somewhere. We have told our daughters that their very survival depends on never letting someone like that overcome you.
Now why should Trayvon behave any differently? Do we tell our sons to go with strangers brandishing weapons or perhaps not brandishing weapons. I think we teach all our kids to not deal with strangers.
I also think Casey Anthony killed her daughter, despite the jury. She killed her as I am sitting her. So justice sometimes doesn’t mean beans.
Emma,
I never quoted that story, haven’t heard it, its irrelevant to the points I have been making. Lets just hope my kids, your kids, and everyone elses kids on this blog never encounter a wannabe cop looking for trouble with a handgun.
I feel sad for you Emma. You seem to see everything as polar extremes. This was not, and never has been, a left vs right.
Its a dead unarmed kid vs a grown man with a gun looking for an opportunity to feel important.
This kid had EVERY RIGHT to be in this neighborhood and NOT be followed by an armed man. In my world, void of left vs right, kids should be able to walk home without fear of being shot. It is YOU that has created the ideological perspective, not me.
Interesting. My entire argument this week is that people need to stop jumping to conclusions, deliberately distorting and even fabricating “evidence,” and not letting emotion cloud justice. I can see how your playbook would characterize that as “extreme.”
Emma, you seem to be doing that also. Isn’t it you who has quoted a few gems from the Zimmerman family? Apologies if you have not.
I don’t know about anyone fabricating evidence. What seems very obvious to me is that if it weren’t for the black activists like Al Sharpton, where would this story be? The family of Trayvon Martin would have buried their son and the Zimmerman man would be out living his life. That was the upshot of the entire incident. Obviously, there is enough going on for all of us to know that something is rotten in the state of Florida.
@Moon-howler “Isn’t it you who has quoted a few gems from the Zimmerman family?”
Umm, no, no quotes from me about anything of the kind, but nice try. Just a lot of concern about the utter disregard for paucity of actual facts, concern for justice for all parties, and aversion to the rush to judgement, the bounty put on Zimmerman’s head, the race-baiting (and the rush to paint Zimmerman as “white”), and the media appointing itself investigator, prosecution and judge. Oh, and expressing sadness, in at least two of my posts, that a young life was lost.
I guess I couldn’t possibly get more extreme that that!
First off, I did apologize in advance if I misquoted you. Secondly, I have already renounced the bounty put on Zimmerman’s head. DOJ ought to come down all over them. I see little difference in putting a dead or alive bounty on someone and murder for hire.
As for race baiting, I don’t believe I have heard as much of that as I have heard comments various places that are comments that are covering up the racial component of this. When your introduction to a story has the words ‘effen coon’ in it, the racial component is there. I think the white or Hispanic edge to this is irrelevant. What isn’t irrelevant is not-black, at least to blacks. Had the issue been dealt with immediately, I might be singing a different song also.
Again, if the lead detective and the black community hadn’t escalated the story, where would it be today? No where.
Let’s just bring all the cards to the table. Many people I have talked to are jaundiced about this story because of Jackson and Sharpton. Sharptonhas yet to apologize for his many errors over the Duke lacrosse players.
However, should that incident consume this Trayvon story? I don’t think so. Sharpton is an activist and its pretty likely that he will be involved with any national story involving a black person and what he perceives as injustice. We can’t just can every story because he is involved.
He is no longer just a black activist. Maybe his behavior will reflect a far greater responsibility. I hope so. If nothing else, even a broken clock is right 2 times a day.
“I think we should always consider changing laws if there are loop holes large enough to drive a mack truck through. There is something clearly wrong if you can have a case like this where an unarmed kid is shot, not one contact his parents, and allow the shooter to just head on home. Clearly wrong.”
No, we shouldn’t. The laws are fine as written. I see no issue here that requires the laws to change.
Well something is wrong. Either the law in Florida was written with loopholes, cops are rotten or prosecutors are on the take.
The laws might be fine in your eyes but to those of us who don’t like kids being shot in cold blood, they aren’t fine. We shall see.
Americans are getting tired of the wild west mentality. Enjoy it now. I doubt if things will be as they are now 5 years from now.
Imagine a perfect world where every law provided 100% flawless protection against every possible contingency!
Wouldn’t that be special.
The one out there sure needs some clarification.
The Stand your Ground one in Florida must be one of those ‘if you kill ’em drag ’em inside’ to avoid presecution laws.
Don’t you know murder is illegal? It never happens… The LAW protects us..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo
It would be nice if this case were at least treated as a manslaughter rather than a ride home in the cop car. Trayvon was killed February 26. It is now April 1.
@marinm Love it.
I have never seen any of the gun-control folks ever give an intelligent explanation for the fact that the states with the highest rates of crime seem to generally have the most restrictive gun laws. Heck, even the President said that “if they bring a knife, we bring a gun!” “We” who? We the people? The ones who are supposed to “retreat” mid-rape?
So where does it start? Who do you want to arm, Emma? How about all college kids? High school kids? The mentally unstable? Should we encourage the thugs to come down south, buy up our guns and take them back to NY state to sell on the cheap?
🙄
There is a time and a place for guns. There are limitations. Unfortunately people who believe in moderation are drowned out by a bunch of loud mouths who act like there are no restrictions anywhere and that you are castrating or bobbitting them to suggest otherwise.
@Emma
If you loved that you will LOVE this
http://bit.ly/HdLWWD
That is such a crock of crap.