Will the rain take away some of this miserable pollen? My car is green. Everything is green!
Speaking of gardens…..what is this I hear about a biblical Garden of Eden theme in Old Town Manassas on
Battle Street? Temptation and the Broken Apple? Which local politicians will be auditioning for the role of the Serpent?
Who will play Eve?
Feel free to make your nominations. Hmmmmm….I know who *I* would nominate for the Serpent.
Here is the link for the last open thread. It contains some still-alive issues readers might want to check out:
https://www.moonhowlings.net/index.php/2012/04/11/open-thread-tuesday-april-11/
It has scrolled pretty far down the page now.
I think what we want is balance, pokie.
I was not impressed with the prosecution during the bond hearing because he bullied. Much of what he said was grandstanding and had nothing to do with the information needed to determine bail eligibility.
I don’t think there was frivolous litigation. There is a dead kid out there. I think there is a manslaughter case to try. Guilty or not guilty–I have no idea. That’s why there is a trial.i think its time for everyone to simmer down. There should now only be 2 sides–prosecution and defense. If I were that defense attorney I would be asking for a change of venue to say, North Dakota.
M-H, think I remember you writing of your family ties to Staunton
(your grandfather was once City Manager?). The May Smithsonian
Magazine arrived today and they selected it as one of the
10 best small towns in America.
Remember being thrilled almost a decade ago when the
Washingtonian selected Old Town Manassas as one of the best places to
live in the DC Metro area.
@Steve, yes,you are correct. thank you for letting me know!
I still have cousins there and my mother’s sister. (on this side of the ground) My grandparents are buried there. They came there in the late 40’s after he served in a similar capacity in Charlottesville.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/The-20-Best-Small-Towns-in-America.html
You guys should be happy. According to Rumfeld’s top-secret memo to Bush on Sept. 30, 2001, entitled “strategic thoughts,” Syria has been on the “to-do” list since right after 9/11. Odd that a year later the Bush administration opposed the Syria Accountability Act (introduced by a Dem and which Bush signed with a signing statement in Dec. 2003) and it is where the administration rendered Candian Maher Arar (despite Syria being on the state sponsor of terrorism list) where he was tortured.
http://library.rumsfeld.com/doclib/sp/272/2001-09-30%20to%20President%20Bush%20re%20Strategic%20Thoughts.pdf
So… if Obama invades Syria…. he can blame Bush YET AGAIN for HIS decisions.
Ok, then.
Please provide documentation that Obama as blamed Bush for Syria,
I didn’t say that Obama BLAMED Bush. Why is it that you keep missing what I write?
I said that he CAN blame Bush…. based upon Morris post about the memo showing Syria as a target…. and Obama’s history of blaming Bush that HE is continuing.
Not sure why.
“You guys should be happy.”
As a proud American I can’t even find that place (is it a country?) on a map.
Let them all die. Who cares. I don’t want to spend one red cent saving them. Put America first.
@Cargosquid
Why is it that you always claim a technicality for whatever you say when you know damn good and well what you mean to imply?
Actually Obama doesn’t have a track record of blaming Bush. That is an artificial charge. The origin of that Republican charge is based on Obama pointing out that he inherited the economic crash. He never blamed Bush. It just turned in to that.
I am just going to start calling out bull puckey when I hear it.
@marinm
Marin are you really so heartless that you condemn innocent men, women and children to death by their government and the warring factions there?
Let them die, who cares? Surely you don’t mean that. You have little children. Do you want people to feel that way about them?
It really might behoove you to at least learn where Syria is. It is in a rather stretegic part of the world and what happens there very much ends up influencing the rest of the middle east and therefore, us.
I am not sure how I feel about intervention there. I don’t have the facts but I sure am not going to just blow it off and say I don’t care who lives or dies. These kinds of upsets within countries have a nasty habit of growing into regional uprisings, etc.
Did everyone but me know that George Zimmerman had a wife? I did not know.
I am shocked and outraged that so much effort has to go into his security and getting him out of that jail and to safety.
the press needs to be under house arrest until he is removed and anyone threatening him with harm should be arrested. The man deserves a fair trial. He shouldn’t have to wear a bullet proof vest.
@Moon-howler
You go right ahead. Its so good that you can ignore what I write and state, with certainty, and state what I supposedly IMPLY.
“Why is it that you always claim a technicality for whatever you say when you know damn good and well what you mean to imply?”
There’s no technicality. I wrote what I meant. YOU are putting words into my mouth. You are the one looking for implications and code.
I seem to recall that YOU object to that whenever you think we’ve “put words into your mouth.”
I see that nothing has changed here. The double standard lives. I don’t IMPLY. If I mean something, I write it. And yes…Obama blames Bush for TODAY’S economy. He’s blame Bush for our poor standing in the world three years later. He blames Bush for deficits that HE made. He blames Bush when his ATF and DOJ broke international law and ran guns to Mexico. When are you going to hold Obama accountable?
Let me spell it out.
Morris states that there is memo that Syria was a possible target. Obviously a memo that was not acted upon. But, Bush&co did have a memo stating that. FACT.
There’s talk that we might go after ASSAD and help the “rebels” in Syria. That would be Obama’s decision with nothing to do with Bush. FACT.
I made the joke that Obama CAN use the existence of the memo to state that Bush was thinking it first so its OK for any Obama actions…..Bush did it! Its his fault. Kinda of like his defense of Fast and Furious.
I implied nothing. I DID NOT state that Obama was blaming Bush for Syria.
If I write something, it is you that automatically takes what I write and twists it.
If you want an echo chamber, just say so. I’m sure the conservatives here would like to hear it.
Cargo states: “He (Obama) blames Bush when his ATF and DOJ broke international law and ran guns to Mexico. When are you going to hold Obama accountable?”
You want to hold Obama accountable for breaking international law (which you don’t identify) for what happened after he took office in 2009, why don’t you start the march for accountability with Bush and Cheney for authorizing torture starting in 2001 in violation of the Convention Against Torture (international law) and the Torture Statute (domestic law)?
Another interesting aspect of Rumsfeld’s Sept. 2001 memo. Note the part about ridding (redacted) of WMD. That was 18 months before we invaded Iraq showing the strategic intent was in place for a long time while the administration worked to concoct a rationale to squander blood and money. If that sounds like blaming Bush for the Iraq folly, it is.
@Cargosquid I never realized until recently how very low the bar was that Obama’s voters set for him. They had no expectation of accountability or even competence to even begin to “fix” the “mess.” He gets to be whatever they say he is.
@Morris Davis
Ok. Let’s do that.
Now what?
@Morris Davis
Hit submit too soon.
International law… that I don’t identify.
Um… Gun running into a foreign country, to cartels, which said weapons were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans and, at least, one American law enforcement agent. Google fast and furious.
But I’m sorry that I don’t actually have the page number and text of said law.
Cargo said:
Document the Obama blaming, please.
“Marin are you really so heartless that you condemn innocent men, women and children to death by their government and the warring factions there?”
Yes. It’s not my govt, not my country so it’s none of my concern. Why should we shut down senior services here in our country to support rebels in another country?
Let those citizens of Syria use their 2A equivilant and reform govt without any other country interfering.
@marin
I simply don’t know what to say. How do you feel about say the HOlocaust? It wasn’t your government or your country either.
At what point do we stop caring about others in an agape sense?
Oh, please.
You want me to document every single soundbite? That’s ridiculous.
Obama’s administration has blamed our deficits on “Bush tax cuts,” the Fast & Furious debacle on Bush because they did a failed similar thing but actually notified Mexican LEO, blames Bush because he inherited this economy but ignores his own failed programs that have worsened it. He blamed Bush for our poor standing in the world, then continued many Bush programs, and also alienated our allies and looked foolish in many cases.
But if we have to document each and every time we state something, I look forward to your citations.
@Cargo,
You can’t document it because it isn’t there. I more than understand your frustraton. He never blamed the economic woes on Bush. He said he inheritied many of them. Considering when the crash happened and when he was inaugurated, then that’s pretty much all one needs to say.
He didn’t blame Bush for the US standing in the world. I would welcome a direct quote where he did that. Didn’t think you could find one.
@marinm
Of course, many of those rebels are known to be Wahabbist Saudis, assisting their Sunni brothers against an Alawite dictator. There won’t be any liberty even if they win. And resident Christians in Syria will all die.
So they have that going for them.
Here ya go – documentation
(Reuters) – President Barack Obama said on Monday he inherited many of the country’s problems with high debt and deficits when he entered the White House, sounding a theme likely to dominate his 2012 re-election campaign.
Speaking at a Democratic fundraiser, where families paid $15,000 to get a picture with him, Obama defended his economic record and noted that problems in Europe were affecting the United States.
“We do have a serious problem in terms of debt and deficit, and much of it I inherited,” Obama said. The financial crisis, he said, made the problem worse.
except that Bush had 453 billion in deficits and it was shrinking. Obama… not so much.
http://dmarron.com/2012/04/18/the-federal-budget-in-one-picture/
http://www.angrybearblog.com/2010/04/bush-vs-obama-deficits-in-pictures.html
Of course, Obama didn’t write that 2009 budget that fell under Bush. But Pelosi/Reid submitted it to him instead of Bush. That was the last budget that the Democrats produced and have since continued to break federal law by not producing a budget.
Fast and Furious:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/11/08/blame-bush-is-that-holders-strategy-to-get-out-fast-and-furious-mess/
I will retract that he blamed Bush for poor international standing and state that he blames the previous policies without naming Bush.
But then he continues with many of the same policies while alienating allies through gaffes, policy, and personal remarks.
I’ve heard the claim that the gun-walking program violated international law, but what I haven’t heard is anyone who has identified what said law is and exactly how it was violated. President Clinton signed a treaty in 1997 that was adopted in the Organization of American States that likely would have applied, but conservatives opposed it and it was never ratified by the Senate.
You talk about accountability and blame: from what came out in the hearings it appears Fast and Furious was first discussed in October 2009, which was 10 months after Obama took office. Bush had been in office for 9 months when 9/11 happened: do you blame him for the agencies that overlooked intel that may have prevented the attacks?
If its not our country and US interests are not in a state of a clear and present danger than I would not support assisting one party over another. We should not get envolved.
Millions of people are killed by their governments. Why interfere here and not elsewhere? What’s the qualification for us to intervene? Why risk American military servicemember lives for a country the majority of school children couldn’t locate on a map?
Why spend money we can’t afford to lose on this? Should we lower social security payouts to afford assisting these rebels?
@Cargosquid
Do you deny that Obama inherited much of the high debt? Do you deny when Obama came to office that we had just been through the worst economic crash since the Depression?
That isn’t blaming, it is looking at facts.
McCain would have inherited the same mess and also the same European economic mess that continues to poison our well.
Would he have handled it better? Who knows. We will never know. However I bet you would be singing a much different tune.
@marinm
I am not suggesting we get involved in Syria. I don’t know how I feel about it. I haven’t studied the details.
I am mainly curious over your attitude about others. How do you feel about the Holocaust? Would you have involved us there if we weren’t already at war? How about the genocide in Bosnia?
I think we first have to ask ourselves about our own security and how it is affected. then we have to look to see if genocide is being practiced. There are certainly other criteria.
I guess it bothers me to hear that you simply don’t care. I think we can always care, even if we aren’t willing to commit troops.
@Moon-howler
The Holocaust was evil. I know of no other way to describe it.
I would not have involved troops if they had not already Ben committed. Same for Bosnia. Same for Myanmar. The location doesn’t matter. I stand by my statement that we should not involve ourselves in the internal dealings of other countries especially those where our security is not threatened.
What’s worse? To not care and be honest about it or to “care” and still do nothing? I have no issue if someone wants to judge me on what they may percieve as my callousness. I think service members should not be used unless the life of our great nation is at risk.
I think its worse not to care. It shows a selfishness that I find unnatural. I would have to ask, where in this country would you not go because it doesn’t concern you. I don’t think your concern extends to the 50 states, and territories.
Unless people step in and stop genocide, then we allow evil to persist. Next time it could be you.
No man is an island. No nation should exist in isolation. You never know when you might need to call in favors.
@Moon-howler
I don’t deny that he inherited about 500 billion in deficit and a high debt.
But he added 5 trillion more debt in 3 years. Bush took 8 years to get that amount.
He then states that its Bush’s policies that made THIS debt. He takes no responsibility for the current state of the Union.
As you said, we don’t know if McCain would have handled it better, but I’m hard pressed to say that he would have been worse.
No we should not exist in isolation, but at the same time we should not stretch ourselves to the point that we rip. Syria. We’ve had boots on the ground there for years as does Israel and Iran, and most likely Russia. But why is Syria more important to us than Mexico? Why do they register such importance? How’s Haiti doing these days? Do we act like we care? Are the Syrians likely to help us combat the opium trade out of Afganistan if we help them? Have we stopped genocide in Africa? Has Israel? Who’s stepping in? Who? US soldiers between the age of 18-21. And when the US steps in, so to speak, why can’t the governments of those countries step up?
Where is Rick Bentley? I want to talk to him about J. Edgar.
What a comlicated individual. I found myself defending him to Mr. Howler who said he didn’t know there was anything good to say about him.
He certainly made the FBI what it is today starting with centralizing fingerprints. He definitely stayed too long. My one gripe with the film was that there was a little too much speculation about homosexuality. We will never know nor should we care.
Also it was another one of those damn films that darts back and forth on a time line. I know that is the popular way to do things but it sure makes you have to work hard to watch a film.
Today’s allergy levels:
Monday – 5.5/Medium
Apples and Bowling Balls. Last I checked, the lands that make up modern Syria were a vassal state of the Hittite Empire. Let the Hittites deal with it.
Not to sound overly critical, but I find much of the blogosphere very tiresome (yet for some perverse reason, I keep on reading it). We continue to discuss issues of unacceptable speech, gun rights, etc. with many of the same points re-packaged over and over for the purpose of the discussion at hand. Yet it is clear that minds are seldom changed, because most of us have well-established philosophies based on the subset of facts that we consider relevant.
I came across a very interesting discussion on the book The Righteous Mind on Judy Curry’s web site ( http://judithcurry.com/2012/04/19/the-righteous-mind/#more-7893 ). The book discusses how an individual’s perception (often subconscious) serve to justify his own beliefs rather than those of a challenger. He says that in order to challenge someone’s views, we have to communicate to them within their belief system.
Very interesting blog entry by Judy Curry. I may actually read the book The Righteous Mind.
Could Rubio plan lead to citizenship?
By MANU RAJU | 4/20/12 3:13 PM EDT
Marco Rubio’s version of the DREAM Act has spawned a lot of chatter in Spanish-language media, which is playing up the possibility that some children of illegal immigrants could eventually become citizens under his emerging proposal.
But when asked at a briefing Thursday with English-language reporters if his plan would create a pathway to citizenship, Rubio insisted it wouldn’t.
“I think the key difference is it doesn’t create a special pathway for citizenship and thereby leads to illegal chain migration,” he said of the distinctions between his plan and the Democratic DREAM Act. “What it does it only puts them in the same position as any other holder of a non-immigrant visa, which is the opportunity to avail themselves of the existing legal immigration system whatever that system is at that time when they access it.”
Democratic leadership aides said Friday that Rubio seemed to be playing up the citizenship piece with Spanish-language press and downplaying it with English-language media.
But Rubio’s office on Friday strongly denied that was the case.
Alex Conant, a Rubio spokesman, said Friday that “there is nothing in his proposal that would prevent these kids from eventually becoming citizens. But unlike the current DREAM Act, it does not create special pathway to citizenship. If these kids want to become citizens, they would have to go through the same process as anyone else and wait in line.”
http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-congress/
This is good. I hope that Romney chooses Rubio for his VP selection.
Ugg. This….Good!
@SlowpokeRodriguez
It has nothing to do with apples and bowling balls. Marin basically said he didn’t care about anyone but Americans and I asked some specific questions about other world atrocities. Holocaust was there. He answered. His answer was to a specific question.
Don’t take my word for it…go back and check.
Sure it’s Apples and Bowling Balls. In Syria, a people is being oppressed by their government. Not the first time this has happened, mind you! Did you see the video of that woman in Iran getting into Ahmedinijad’s face? After he convinced her to get into the limo with him, how much you wanna bet she was forced to eat her whole family before they killed her? With Hitler, if he wanted to oppress his own people only, WWII wouldn’t have happened the same way. Problem was, Hitler had to go and oppress other people from other countries, too. You’re comparing Apples and Bowling Balls. It’s not uncommon for the US to look past the suffering of a soverign nation oppressing its own people. Want a list of how many nations that is happening in right now that we have no plans of getting ivolved in? Take a stroll through Africa, bet you run into oppression here and there. We can’t fix every problem. Would love to, but we’re just a hair short on cash these days.
Pokie, I only asked the question. I didn’t compare. Marin answered.
My question is, when do we care, when do we care and try to do something? I don’t know the answer. I think it is certainly worth discussing though.
How does the real Holocaust differ from what was done to the Armenians? to the various people in the USSR. which has been estimated at over 20 million? in Darfur? Why did we become involved in Somolia and not Darfor? Strategic location?
Do we tend to become more concerned when the people look like us? Is yes, is that just human nature?
And NO, I am not comparing anything. I asked a question. I don’t disagree with you other than I am comparing. I am not.
M-H,
Having to bear the bear today.
Our 401K’s may result in one thing a defined pension wouldn’t
give us boomers – more heart attacks. Another plot to
get rid of us ASAP?
Steve R. No kidding. I am mighty sick of the bears. We need to go bear hunting!
The defined pensions will soon be a thing of the past, I fear. Only an idiot would willingly give one up. I wonder what kind of lies the state will spin to entice people?
Walmart and Europe are the apparent culprits today.
I am mad at apple.
There was a housing bubble in Spain – rapid building, speculation,
everyone saw a way to get rich quick and then –Puff. Jobs and
savings loss, owners under-water, banks overextended – a giant
deep recession mess it will take them years to resolve.
Glad we are too smart in the good old USA to let something like that
happen here!