For several years Elena and I have been discussing Alanna’s report on genocide and how relevant it still is. As I sit here listening to President Obama speaking at the Holocaust Museum, I decided to take the plunge, find Alanna’s thread which is almost 4 years old, June 8, 2008, and reposting it.
Read the process of how genocide happens. Think about it first in terms of the Holocaust and then how it applies in modern countries today. Then do the really uncomfortable thing and think about it in our own country. Have we contributed to making someone or a group of someones “others?” Being an “other” is where it all starts.
This was an uncanny unplanned article on Huffington Post that was discovered AFTER Moon reposted this thread.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leo-pierson/on-states-rights-and-anti_b_1442997.html
Immigrants–particularly Latinos in both their specificity and generality–are seen as “other” than what some folks–from everyday citizens to those embedded in our national security apparatus–conceive of as “real Americans”, or productive, law abiding members of society. Even though greater than 85% of Latinos are citizens and legal residents, we disproportionately carry the burdensome weight of being illegal as stigma.
So in the case of the contemporary immigration question, specifically Latinos–not entirely unlike the Irish, Italians and Jews in times past–have been dehumanized and demonized as undesirables, as illegals. And it isn’t just those who are undocumented; we are all caricatured as “illegal criminals”. Even our children, who represent roughly a full third of our population, are caste in such stigmatizing terms as anchor babies… dog food… parasites. As Elena Schlossberg cogently stated in a 2007 county board meeting, “They are talking about children! And [politicians] have not taken a leadership role to stop this!”
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June 8, 2008
At the risk of setting off a firestorm, I’d just like to post these 8 Steps that have been identified by an organization entitled – Genocidal Watch, these steps are part of a process that has been identified in cases of genocide. Again, this doesn’t mean we are having or going to have a ‘Holocaust’ experience, but it’s wise to be aware of these steps. So, here it is – The Genocidal Process ‘:
THE GENOCIDAL PROCESS
Prevention of genocide requires a structural understanding of the genocidal process. Genocide has eight stages or operational processes. The first stages precede later stages, but continue to operate throughout the genocidal process. Each stage reinforces the others. A strategy to prevent genocide should attack each stage, each process. The eight stages of genocide are classification, symbolization, dehumanization, organization, polarization, preparation, extermination, and denial.
Classification
All languages and cultures require classification – division of the natural and social world into categories. We distinguish and classify objects and people. All cultures have categories to distinguish between “us” and “them,” between members of our group and others. We treat different categories of people differently. Racial and ethnic classifications may be defined by absurdly detailed laws — the Nazi Nuremberg laws, the “one drop” laws of segregation in America, or apartheid racial classification laws in South Africa. Racist societies often prohibit mixed categories and outlaw miscegenation. Bipolar societies are the most likely to have genocide. In Rwanda and Burundi, children are the ethnicity of their father, either Tutsi or Hutu. No one is mixed. Mixed marriages do not result in mixed children.
Symbolization
We use symbols to name and signify our classifications. We name some people Hutu and others Tutsi, or Jewish or Gypsy, or Christian or Muslim. Sometimes physical characteristics – skin color or nose shape – become symbols for classifications. Other symbols, like customary dress or facial scars, are socially imposed by groups on their own members. After the process has reached later stages (dehumanization, organization, and polarization) genocidal governments in the preparation stage often require members of a targeted group to wear an identifying symbol or distinctive clothing — e.g. the yellow star. The Khmer Rouge forced people from the Eastern Zone to wear a blue-checked scarf, marking them for forced relocation and elimination.
Dehumanization
Classification and symbolization are fundamental operations in all cultures. They become steps of genocide only when combined with dehumanization. Denial of the humanity of others is the step that permits killing with impunity. The universal human abhorrence of murder of members of one’s own group is overcome by treating the victims as less than human. In incitements to genocide the target groups are called disgusting animal names – Nazi propaganda called Jews “rats” or “vermin”; Rwandan Hutu hate radio referred to Tutsis as “cockroaches.” The targeted group is often likened to a “disease”, “microbes”, “infections” or a “cancer” in the body politic. Bodies of genocide victims are often mutilated to express this denial of humanity. Such atrocities then become the justification for revenge killings, because they are evidence that the killers must be monsters, not human beings themselves.
Organization
Genocide is always collective because it derives its impetus from group identification. It is always organized, often by states but also by militias and hate groups. Planning need not be elaborate: Hindu mobs may hunt down Sikhs or Muslims, led by local leaders. Methods of killing need not be complex: Tutsis in Rwanda died from machetes; Muslim Chams in Cambodia from hoe-blades to the back of the neck (“Bullets must not be wasted,” was the rule at Cambodian extermination prisons, expressing the dehumanization of the victims.) The social organization of genocide varies by culture. It reached its most mechanized, bureaucratic form in the Nazi death camps. But it is always organized, whether by the Nazi SS or the Rwandan Interahamwe. Death squads may be trained for mass murder, as in Rwanda, and then force everyone to participate, spreading hysteria and overcoming individual resistance. Terrorist groups will pose one of the greatest threats of genocidal mass murder in the future as they gain access to chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons.
Polarization
Genocide proceeds in a downward cycle of killings until, like a whirlpool, it reaches the vortex of mass murder. Killings by one group may provoke revenge killings by the other. Such massacres are aimed at polarization, the systematic elimination of moderates who would slow the cycle. The first to be killed in a genocide are moderates from the killing group who oppose the extremists: the Hutu Supreme Court Chief Justice and Prime Minister in Rwanda, the Tutsi Archbishop in Burundi. Extremists target moderate leaders and their families. The center cannot hold. The most extreme take over, polarizing the conflict until negotiated settlement is impossible.
Preparation
Preparation for genocide includes identification. Lists of victims are drawn up. Houses are marked. Maps are made. Individuals are forced to carry ID cards identifying their ethnic or religious group. Identification greatly speeds the slaughter. In Germany, the identification of Jews, defined by law, was performed by a methodical bureaucracy. In Rwanda, identity cards showed each person’s ethnicity. In the genocide, Tutsis could then be easily pulled from cars at roadblocks and murdered. Throwing away the cards did not help, because anyone who could not prove he was Hutu, was presumed to be Tutsi. Hutu militiamen conducted crude mouth exams to test claims of Hutu identity.
Preparation also includes expropriation of the property of the victims. It may include concentration: herding of the victims into ghettos, stadiums, or churches. In its most extreme form, it even includes construction of extermination camps, as in Nazi-ruled Europe, or conversion of existing buildings – temples and schools – into extermination centers in Cambodia. Transportation of the victims to these killing centers is then organized and bureaucratized.
Extermination
The seventh step, the final solution, is extermination. It is considered extermination, rather than murder, because the victims are not considered human. They are vermin, rats or cockroaches. Killing is described by euphemisms of purification: “ethnic cleansing” in Bosnia, “ratonade” (rat extermination) in Algeria. Targeted members of alien groups are killed, often including children. Because they are not considered persons, their bodies are mutilated, buried in mass graves or burnt like garbage.
Denial
Every genocide is followed by denial. The mass graves are dug up and hidden. The historical records are burned, or closed to historians. Even during the genocide, those committing the crimes dismiss reports as propaganda. Afterwards such deniers are called “revisionists.” Others deny through more subtle means: by characterizing the reports as “unconfirmed” or “alleged” because they do not come from officially approved sources; by minimizing the number killed; by quarreling about whether the killing fits the legal definition of genocide (“definitionalism”); by claiming that the deaths of the perpetrating group exceeded that of the victim group, or that the deaths were the result of civil war, not genocide. In fact, civil war and genocide are not mutually exclusive. Most genocides occur during wars.
And here are the steps for prevention:
PREVENTION
A full strategy for preventing genocide should include attack on each of genocide’s operational processes.
Classification may be attacked either through devaluation of the distinctive features used to classify (e.g. amalgamation of regional dialects and accents by exposure to mass media, standardized education, and promotion of a common language) or through use of transcendent categories, such as common nationality or common humanity. Promotion of mixed categories, such as the financial incentives for inter-caste marriages in Tamil Nadu, India, may help break down group endogamy, but do not combat genocide in bipolar societies where mixed categories have no recognition. In bipolar societies, transcendent institutions like the Catholic Church should actively campaign against ethnic classifications. Special effort should be made to keep such institutions from being captured and divided by the same forces that divide the society, e.g. through hierarchical discipline from Rome for the Roman Catholic Church.
Symbolization can be attacked by legally forbidding use of hate symbols (e.g. swastikas) or ethnic classification words. “Nigger” or “kaffir” as racial expletives may be outlawed as “hate speech.” Group marking like tribal scarring may be outlawed, like gang clothing. The problem is that legal limitations on hate speech will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980’s, the prohibition had little effect, since other euphemisms and code-words replaced them. Prohibition may even become counter-productive, as part of an ideology of denial, which prevents people from naming, discussing and overcoming deep cultural divisions. However, without symbols for our classifications, they would become literally insignificant. Yellow stars became insignificant in parts of France and Bulgaria because many Jews refused to wear them and were not turned in by their Christian neighbors, who rejected the Nazi’s classification system. In cultures that reject negative symbolization, resistance can be a powerful preventive tactic. In Denmark, the popular resistance to Nazi classification and symbolization was so strong that the Nazis did not even dare to impose the yellow star, and Danish “fishermen” smuggled ninety-five percent of Danish Jews to safety in Sweden.
Dehumanization should be opposed openly whenever it shows its ugly face. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than democracies. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Although restrictions on free speech are not necessary in a healthy polity, even in democracies hate speech should be actively exposed and publicly opposed. Direct incitements to genocide should be outlawed. Incitement to genocide is not protected speech. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished. Impunity breeds contempt for law, and emboldens genocidists, who can literally get away with murder.
Organizations that commit acts of genocide should be banned, and membership in them made a crime. Freedom of association in a democratic society should not be misconstrued as protecting membership in criminal organizations. At Nuremberg, membership in the SS was itself prosecuted. Similarly the Interahamwe and other genocidal hate groups should be outlawed, and their members arrested and tried for conspiracy to commit genocide. The UN should impose arms embargoes on governments or militias that commit genocide. Because arms embargoes are difficult to enforce, for Rwanda, the UN established an international commission to investigate and document violations of the arms embargo. The UN may also require member states to freeze the assets of persons who organize and finance genocidal groups.
Polarization can be fought by providing financial and technical aid to the moderate center. It may mean security protection for moderate leaders, or assistance to human rights groups. Assets of extremists may be seized, and visas for international travel denied to them. Coups d’état by extremists should be immediately opposed by targeted international sanctions on their leaders.
Preparation: Identification of victims considerably speeds genocide. When ID cards identify victims’ ethnic or religious group, or when victims are forced to wear yellow stars, the killing is made efficient. As soon as such symbolic markers are imposed, a Genocide Watch should be declared and diplomatic pressure should demand their abolition and impose targetted sanctions on regime leaders. When death lists are drawn up, the international community should recognize that genocide is imminent, and mobilize for armed intervention. Those identified should be given asylum, and assistance in fleeing their persecutors. Had the U.S. or Britain in Palestine accepted all Jewish immigrants, millions of lives might have been saved from the Holocaust.
Extermination whether carried out by governments or by patterned mob violence, can only be stopped by force. Armed intervention must be rapid and overwhelming. Safe areas should be established with real military protection. An intervention force without robust rules of engagement, such as UNAMIR in Rwanda in April, 1994 or UNPROFOR in Bosnia, is worse than useless because it gives genocide victims false hope of security in churches or unsafe “safe areas”, delaying their organization for self-defense. In bipolar societies, separation into self-defense zones is the best protection for both groups, particularly if international troops create a buffer zone between them.
Experience with UN peacekeeping has shown that humanitarian intervention should be carried out by a multilateral force authorized by the UN, but led by UN members, rather than by the UN itself. The Military Staff Committee envisioned in Article 47 of the UN Charter has never been organized, and the UN does not have a standing army. The strongest member states must therefore shoulder this responsibility in conjunction with other UN members. The U.S. is now promoting the organization of an African Crisis Response Initiative composed of African military units coordinated and trained by the U.S., Europeans, and other powers. Regional forces such as those of NATO, ECOWAS, or the EU, or mandated by the African Union or Organization of American States may also effectively intervene if given strong support by major military powers.
Denial, the final stage of genocide is best overcome by public trials and truth commissions, followed by years of education about the facts of the genocide, particularly for the children of the group or nation that committed the crime. The black hole of forgetting is the negative force that results in future genocides. When Adolf Hitler was asked if his planned invasion of Poland was a violation of international law, he scoffed, “Who ever heard of the extermination of the Armenians?” Impunity – literally getting away with murder — is the weakest link in the chains that restrain genocide. In Rwanda, Hutus were never arrested and brought to trial for massacres of Tutsis that began years before the April, 1994 genocide. In Burundi, Tutsi youth gangs have never been tried for killing Hutus. Burundi judges are nearly all Tutsis, as are the army and police. They seldom, if ever, convict their own.
Social order abhors a legal vacuum. When courts do not dispense justice the victims have no recourse but revenge. In societies with histories of ethnic violence, the cycle of killing will eventually spiral downward into the vortex of genocide. In such societies, the international community should fill the legal vacuum by creating tribunals to prosecute and try genocide. That has been done for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda and will soon be done for Cambodia. We finally have the International Criminal Court (ICC) that will have world-wide jurisdiction to try genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. But the ICC still has no jurisdiction over genocide committed in nations that contain over half of the world’s population because their nations have not become parties to the Rome Treaty of the ICC. The Court must be supported by effective institutions to arrest and imprison those indicted and convicted by the Court. Only such a permanent court will provide a deterrent to those planning future genocides.
The strongest antidote to genocide is justice.
Hi Alanna, some good information in there but I really don’t think it applies to PWC. However, I think that it would apply where there is a race war going on in L.A. between black and Hispanic gangs where there are killing each other because the color of their skin. Not in PWC were criminals are having their status checked after they have been arrested, there is a big difference.
Hello,
If you recall, the original proposed resolution went beyond checking status after arrest. Supervisors initially investigated the restriction of a far reaching range of services including parks and libraries. It was only after they found it would not be cost efficient and could be in violation of federal laws that they settled on the resolution in its current form.
That is a good point Alanna (about the parks and libraries), however, I just think that posting the whole “Genocidal Watch” subject is a bit overboard. It seems like every few weeks the “Holocaust” or “Genocidal” drum has to beat and this is just one of thoese indirect ways of beating that drum. You did say “this doesn’t mean we are having or going to have a ‘Holocaust’ experience, but it’s wise to be aware of these steps” and I’m glad that you said that but I just don’t think it has any relevance here in PWC (today).
I like what hello says above. But once again, I see an attempt to say that what is happening in PWC could lead to something like the Holocaust, or genocide, and again I take issue with that. But I’ve said a lot on this issue and I guess I’ll keep silent and see where this thread goes. But the existence of this thread sort of proves the point I’ve been making about this blog and continued attempts to link what is going on in PWC to even the possibility of something like the Holocaust or genocide happening. As hello says, I still think the entire discussion of this sort of thing has no relevance to what is happening right now in PWC.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see where this thread goes, although I’m not sure I’ll bother reading it as I can kind of predict where it will go (this territory has already been explored quite a lot on this blog).
With people like LPOW living in our county, there’s a better than 50/50 chance him and Greg will cause another Holocaust. Greg=Hitler, LPOW = Mussolini. Case closed. The two of them would be very happy to get PWC rid of all Hispanics. That LPOW, is the reason this thread was started, because of the likes of you and your fellow HSM (sorry, I meant KKK) members.
I would just like to emphsise this part of the process above because it has been known to happen before and during the genocide cases as well as after…
“Denial
Every genocide is followed by denial. The mass graves are dug up and hidden. The historical records are burned, or closed to historians. Even during the genocide, those committing the crimes dismiss reports as propaganda. Afterwards such deniers are called “revisionists.” Others deny through more subtle means: by characterizing the reports as “unconfirmed” or “alleged” because they do not come from officially approved sources; by minimizing the number killed; by quarreling about whether the killing fits the legal definition of genocide (“definitionalism”); by claiming that the deaths of the perpetrating group exceeded that of the victim group, or that the deaths were the result of civil war, not genocide. In fact, civil war and genocide are not mutually exclusive. Most genocides occur during wars.”
…as is pretty evident here and now.
LPOW,
It has been touched on in comments but I don’t remember really focusing in on it as a thread, although maybe Elena has in one of her threads.
Also, if the person who broke into your home was never arrested then I’m not sure the end result would have been any different if you lived within the County limits. I can relate to your experience though. As a teenager our home was burglarized by a man on a bicycle that was ‘selling firewood’. He would knock on your front door and ask if you wanted to order a deliver of firewood and if nobody answered then he’d break-in and rob you. He was a professional because when you arrived home, you wouldn’t even realize that you had been burglarized. He mainly took jewlery and other small valuables. An alert neighbor phoned police and he was actually stopped by a police officer in the neighborhood with a duffle bag of our stuff. But the officer was not permitted to search him and it wasn’t until my father arrived home from work that evening before we even realized. He was arrested and convicted but we never got our stuff back which my grandmother lamented until her death.
LPOW,
I too take issue with all of the fringe talk over here. One could just as easily counter the argument put forth in this post by putting up a website to track “Communist Revolution in America”, throw out a bunch of irrelevant examples and claim to have made the argument. Hey, when you have socialist-leaning groups, along with some hardcore leftist and anarchist fringe crying for the “rights of illegal immigrant workers”, there must be a revolution brewing, right?
There are a FEW rational people here, but I have found that most are kooky fringe types.
Hi Rod, good point about denial but again, I don’t think it has anything to do with PWC and the resolution. The only illegal immigrants I’ve read about in the paper being killed are being killed by other illegal immigrants.
Rod2155…
DILLUSIONAL… not denial.
Good lord… this is rediculous. Hey Rod, call me when you stumble across some mass graves.
If you were on the fence as to whether this blog was over-the-top before, you should be absolutely doubtless now.
Mando- NO DOUBT here!
The PWC resolution in of it’s self does not promote genocide, it promotes isolation. It assumes that the isolation will promote the exodus of the isolated.
The BIG question is what effect will this isolation have on the economic future, will the citizens do the labor the non citizens did and keep America in a strong economic status?
I know we CAN work hard, but will we? has NCLB left our children with the realistic skills and common sense needed to run a nation?
Again, I’m just talking in general…. if your reflective consious is making you feel that these traits of genocide are pertaining to you personally perhaps that’s telling you something!
Well, the existence of this thread proved the point I’d been trying to make about this blog. It is no longer worth following the constant attempts by many posters and entire threads (like this one) to even suggest that what is happening in PWC might in some way shape or form lead to genocide or that we should be on guard against genocide. Mando is right – there’s no doubt this blog is continuing to plow new over-the-top territory. I’m not going to waste my time reading it any more.
Alanna: this whole idea of genocide, the Holocaust, etc. has been more than just “touched on” in this blog. That’s quite an understatement!
As far as the break-in to my house and the police response, all I know is that this person wasn’t even brought before trial, and who knows where he is now. At least in your case justice somewhat prevailed. I don’t know that I ever wanted my stuff back, but I would have liked to have seen the person behind bars. I’ll never get that satisfaction (or even seeing him stand trial).
And with that, I think I’ve said everything I’ve wanted to say. And this thread proves to me how far out there this blog is, so this will be my closing post. The existence of this thread proves my point about how every discussion on this blog in some way eventually leads to talk about ethnic cleansing (OK, “bloodless” ethnic cleansing, genocide, the Holocaust, etc.).
“If you were on the fence as to whether this blog was over-the-top before, you should be absolutely doubtless now.”
And yet you keep coming back for more, you have no means to be proactive in your own cause so you hop over her to marginalize ours for your own entertainment.
Let’s cleanse the county of HSM members like LPOW, Mando, Ed, and JustCause. That is the kind of cleansing we need, right away! The sooner the better. Then we can all live in peace, and be one happy family. People like them are the reason we have this mess now, and all the fear and hatred in our community.
LPOW, Mando, Ed, and JustCause probably agree 100% with posts like this small sample from BVBL – it shows you the kind of people they are:
# Taco Truck Ted said on 20 Jun 2008 at 1:23 pm:
Hello this is Juan from Juan’s Taco, we here at Juan’s Tacos understand this
is a tough economic time for people who have to pay taxes, pay for insurance, licenses and such things. We are now offering a 50% discount to any customer recently crashed into by a person without such harsh economic liabilities mentioned earlier. Juan’s Tacos “We care about taxpayers and non taxpayers alike.”
Taco Truck Ted said on 20 Jun 2008 at 1:29 pm:
Attention:
If you were the 500th person to visit our website this month you are automatically entered into our “One free taco a week for life” contest.
Remember here at Juan’s it’s just not about tacos it’s also about not paying taxes on undocumented, untracable income!
Taco truck ted said on 20 Jun 2008 at 5:09 pm:
Juan from Juan’s Tacos here. In the spirit of America we here at Juan’s Tacos will be providing enourmous amounts of information on our various illegal activities. Please visit our website today.
Remember it’s only illegal if you can’t outlast someone trying to turn you in!
If you do outlast them it’s just business as usual! Next, how may I taco you!
Taco Truck Ted said on 21 Jun 2008 at 10:28 am:
Hello this Juan from Juan’s Tacos. We will be having a Maryland MVA taco/license registration drive out at our house AKA our place of business. With every taco purchased today we will provide you a ride to the Beltsville Md. MVA, completed forms for license, and an individual utility bill with the address of your choice. Here at Juan’s Tacos we not only care about selling tacos we don’t need to pay tax on, we care about you, our beloved customers, getting as many Maryland state licenses in as many names as possible. After all what good are food stamps if you can’t get $5,000 worth a month! Juan’s Tacos the official tacos of the John McCain Presidential Campain! Rally ’round the taco below!
Rod2155- I’m not taking genocide personal, I just think your fixated on labeling anyone or any group who feels their rights are being violated..as an act of Genocide or Ethnic cleansing. Your bantering (however intelligently put) seems a bit..well….stupid.
@onefortheroad
That’s funny… I’ve had this sneaking suspicion that you were Taco Truck Ted.
OneForTheRoad, 23. June 2008, 14:11 posts.
I take offense in your statement above and common sense would almost call that a threat. Because I do not agree with you, you wanna form a gang and “take me out” physically?
Grow the F’ up!
If you cant run with the big dogs, tie your fat a** up on the porch!
MANDO…
I bet “one for the road ” IS REALLY Taco truck Ted……..Now thats funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbZ9xUF7sY8
Taco Truck Ted here:
Today we are running a new special. For every HSM member we get out of the county, you get $5 in untaxable untraceable income. Sorry but that’s all we feel an HSM member is worth. If you can prove they are a KKK member too, then we’ll give you $15 as we think the KKK is worth a lot more than a bunch of silly HSM members like Mando, LPOW, Ed, and JustCause.
Taco Truck Ted here:
Today we are running a 5 for 1 special. For every HSM member you get out of the county, we’ll give you not one, not two, not three, not four, but FIVE undocumented workers! Think of how it will help your local economy. Think of all the extra houses that will be built! Think of all the business it will attract to your county. Round ’em up and bring them to us now, and then you can have all the undocumented workers you ever wanted and live happily. No more HSM members! That’s our motto. Drive HSM out of PWC! And if you call before midnight and give us the name and address of an HSM member we’ll throw in a week’s supply of free tacos!
@Alanna and everyone else
OneForTheRoad/Taco Truck Ted is what is know as a forum troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Mando-
Like all “pests” if you ignore them long enough, they will go away..trust me, this one too shall pass….
Back to the topic. Forget for a moment that we even live in PWC. How do you suppose genocide starts? Do you think 1930s Germany suddenly erupted in a frenzy of hate? Or Cambodia? Or Somalia? Do you think economics played a role in what happened? FAIR isn’t just operating in PWC as you all know. There’s a national agenda. Because many areas are experiencing an economic downturn and the price of fuel and food has risen as fast as the equity in homes has fallen, don’t you think fearful people are ripe for exploitation? The political parties don’t want you to blame them for your problems. They want you to blame someone else.
@Censored
A prerequisite to genocide is a socialist govt. That’s why I’m not voting for Obama. To prevent genocide.
Mando, although the Nazis may have been National Socialists, I think of them as fascists…not the socialists/communists that the right wing likes to lump together.
So what do you think were the incremental ways in which Nazism in Germany started? There were plenty of excuses made after the fact.
Hey JustCause – you are the one who takes things as threats and starts talking about gangs and taking things physical! Don’t try to make it sound like I’m the one who took things physical when you started it.
And Mando – this blog isn’t even worth trolling actually – but you all are so funny that to not comment would have been inexcusable on my part. It doesn’t matter to me whether you ignore my posts are not.
And what happened to Ed and LPOW? Why are they not joining in the fun here? Do they think my posts are not worthy of a reply. I’m insulted!
At least Mando and JustCause had the guts to respond to me. Can’t say the same for spineless wimpy Ed and LPOW.
And I still say, genocide for HSM. It’s a new slogan for PWC – “Genocide for HSM .Whichever candidate runs on that platform gets my vote! Eradicate all HSM members from PWC and it will be a MUCH better place to live.
Taco Truck Ted here:
We are giving whatever candidate for PWC BOCS that runs on the “Genocide for HSM” platform a free lifetime supply of tacos. If you promise to secure our border and not allow any HSM members back in, we’ll also throw in the proceeds from the money we save for an entire year by hiring undocumented workers and paying below market wages. We also will provide you free information on where you can hire undocumented workers for your fancy houses when they require work, so you can save lots and lots of money, and at the same time help fuel PWC’s economy.
Mando,
Obviously there’s no extermination.
These are the similarities that I do see:
And now back to our regularly scheduled program: how genocide applies to PWC. Go for it, I can’t wait to read all the informed opinions from this elitist group of left wingers!
“Obviously there’s no extermination.’ Not in killing people, but in wanting to round them up in deport them. That’s the same as extermination to me. Some of the people who are deported will die when sent back to their own countries, so that’s how I see it as extermination.
LPOW,
If you return, I just don’t believe that PWC’s resolution would have resulted in a different outcome to your case. I think your expectation of the resolution is a bit high.
“Preparation: Driver’s Licenses or lack there of; and eventually National ID cards”
I think we should go one better. Everyone have a color coded sticker that shows whether they are a US Citizen, a legal resident, or an undocumented worker. Then we’ll have no more questions as to what someone’s status is, and it will be easy. And HSM members can continue wearing their big red buttons that get bigger every day. Red for red alert red alert, there’s an HSM member coming at you! LPOW, Ed, Mando, and JustCause probably are sitting at their ‘puters now with their big red buttons on!
@Alanna
Don’t you think you trivialize real genocide by comparing U.S. immigration laws to the brutal erradication of a race of people? Not to mention the fact that by even bringing up genocide on a site supposedly contrived to bring both sides together you’re only guaranteing yourself the leftist of the left as regular posters.
@Censored
I have full confidence that we are not seeing an emergence of genocidal tendencies in the U.S. To waste time arguing it is silly to me.
OneForTheRoad, at first I couldn’t figure out what side you were on, but now I get it.
Anyway, Alanna, I agree that the evils of genocide can creep in slowly and that we should be ever watchful. But one needs to be careful in comparing events in PWH with the holocaust. Requiring someone to have a driver’s license is nothing new. Last I checked, sneaking over the border is still an illegal activity, even if the laws are not enforced. Expecting folks to wait their turn to enter the U.S. legally is reasonable–being allowed to enter the U.S. is a privilege and not a right.
No one wants the death of illegal immigrants–that is something that many of them are inflicting upon each other with their gang activity. I don’t know ANYONE who wants to rid the community of Latinos in the way that you are suggesting here, Alanna. It is my view that, in all likelihood, the 12-20 million illegals will get some kind of amnesty regardless of who wins the presidency. That seems to be the way the wind is blowing politically. But I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a level of assimilation once they are here to stay. My grandparents assimilated nicely, while still retaining many traditions that I carry on today with my own children. Why can’t we expect the same from today’s immigrants? Why should someone be labeled racist because they don’t want to live next to a flophouse or whatever kind of mess a group of illegal immigrants decides to inflict on a neighborhood? I don’t think you would see half as many objections to illegal immigrants if people did not have conditions like that inflicted upon them. It’s the open defiance of laws and neighborhood norms that make people feel as if the illegal immigrants are just flipping the bird at the rest of us. THAT is where the resentment comes from, not because of the color of their skin.
Good neighbors breed goodwill, no matter where the neighbor comes from.
Mando, you’ve evaded the question. What were the incremental steps that made the unthinkable possible? As an art major, I look at Germany in the early part of the twentieth century as having a progressive, vibrant art scene as did much of Europe. What the hell happened? Really, it’s hard for me to imagine that the barbarism that occurred could have happened so recently…within 5-10 years of the time I was born. Of course, the Cambodian and African massacres came afterward and even more recently.
rod2155, 23. June 2008, 13:26
This statement by rod in support of this over-the-top post is a perfect example of why this blog really IS the hate and fear mongering blog. You’ve managed to go FAR beyond ANYTHING Greg ever posted on BVBL, whose “over-the-top” posts could easily be seen as just some of his personal prejudices.
I’M APPALLED!! It’s a shame, too…I was just beginning to think that you actually did care about civil debate on the issue, rather than stirring up hate and fear in the community and throwing around baseless…and base!…accusations. I really don’t know that my conscience would allow me to come back to comment…but I will certainly be watching this blog very closely.
Yawn, the broad brush…
Emma,
“Requiring someone to have a driver’s license is nothing new.”
I agree with the majority of what you stated with the exception of the above listed statement. There has been a tightening of issuances of driver’s licenses with the required proof of ‘legal presence.’ Honesty, I’m not sure whether it was in 2003 or 2004 but since its adoption, the undocumented have not been able to easily obtain one. I was going to say they were unable to obtain one but according to some news articles that I’ve read, they have been sold by DMV employees.
ding ding ding! The prize goes to Mando for exellent detective work. One month free on antibvbl.net.
If you ever come to an econ party, I will buy you a drink.
Hopefully this formatting looks better.
** Classification: legal or illegal us v them
** Dehumanization: self-explainatory; clearly we have see several examples with the animal and diseased references.
** Organization: militia(MinuteMen) / Hate groups(FAIR etc…)
** Preparation: Driver’s Licenses or lack there of; and eventually National ID cards
** Preparation: loss of property although not through direct taking; it’s indirect when people feel they need to leave/abandon their homes
** Preparation: there are calls for greater detention facilities and there is a ‘Sanctuary Movement’ where the undocumented are seeking refuge in churches.
Thanks Mando!
AWCheney,
I’m sure you’ll be back, if only to continue your disturbing obsession with attacking me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKZFxW4pvIo&feature=related
Alanna,
As any 16-year-old is told when they obtain a driver’s license, driving in this country is a privilege, not a right.
OFTR has no business posting here, or anywhere else. What purpose does he/she serve other than lowering any existing respect for this blog.