Geeez, what a redneck state!  Wait, don’t we have the same amendment, here in Virginia?  I guess I had better walk back those words real fast.  Ok Ok, just kidding!  We wouldn’t want to impugn our own Old Dominion. 

 N.C. defined marriage as being between one man and one woman.  According to News-press.com:

Both sides spent a combined $3 million on their campaigns.

North Carolina law already bans gay marriage, like nine other states, but an amendment would effectively slam the door shut on same-sex marriages. The amendment also goes beyond state law by voiding other types of domestic unions from carrying legal status, which opponents warn could disrupt protection orders for unmarried couples.

Six states – all in the Northeast except Iowa – and the District of Columbia allow same sex marriages.

The  North Carolina amendment was placed on the ballot after Republicans took over control of the state Legislature after the 2010 elections, a role the GOP hadn’t enjoyed for 140 years.

Joe Easterling, who described himself as a devout Christian, voted for the amendment at a polling place in Wake Forest.

“I know that some people may argue that the Bible may not necessarily be applicable, or it should not be applicable, on such policy matters. But even looking at nature itself, procreation is impossible without a man and a woman. And because of those things, I think it is important that the state of North Carolina’s laws are compatible with the laws of nature but, more importantly, with the laws of God.”

Regardless of one’s personal feelings about same sex marriage,  at what point do we decide that all Americans have equal protection under the law?  We shouldn’t have one set of rules for one set of people and another set of laws for a different group.  The courts will eventually decide this issue as they have all other cases of inequality.

How do I feel personally?  I think it is a civil rights matter.  On the othre hand, I can’t think of a single reason to not codify same sex marriage.  It sure doesn’t hurt me one way or the other.  Now if something hurt me or cost me money, I might be willing to vote against it.  If it hurt my kids, same.  How is it hurting anyone if people who love each other want to marry? 

I would probably, as I have said before, stick with civil unions for all contracts with the state and let marriage live in the church world. That way marriage can be what various religions want it to be.  I believe the churches would feel less threatened. 

The question now becomes, how long will it take the laws in these 30 states to be overturned?

91 Thoughts to “N.C. rejects gay marriage, civil unions”

  1. SlowpokeRodriguez

    The way it should be. States should be little labs for what works and what doesn’t. I like basic freedoms, so I refuse to live in Maryland…I live in Virginia instead. You boys want to smack your peters together long-term? Don’t live in N.C.! Simple as that.

  2. Scout

    When Virginia voters allowed themselves to be stampeded into marring their venerable Constitution with this sort of thing (a constitution that included Jefferson’s landmark statement on religious liberty), it was like painting a moustache and a red clown nose on the Mona Lisa. North Carolina did not have that august history to trample, but one wonders why constitutional amendments are necessary when marriage regulation is largely a statutory matter.

    Senator Lugar went down the tubes also, just proving that God no longer protects us against our own inherent idiocy, as He has done so often in the past. Perhaps He just ceased to be amused.

    As for Slow, what basic freedoms can one enjoy in Virginia that are denied to citizens of Maryland?

  3. Excellent question, Scout. Good morning.

    Pokie, Add me to that question, please.

    I also want to add that these anti gay sentiments also hurt business. Progressive companies are less likely to relocate in areas that have restrictions against gays. Its more difficult to move their own people into an area.

  4. Emma

    The dust-up in the White House this week over Biden’s statement on gay marriage would be amusing if it weren’t so tragic. Obama is still “evolving” on the issue. Personal beliefs getting in the way of public policy? I guess we’ll know after November.

  5. @Scout
    “As for Slow, what basic freedoms can one enjoy in Virginia that are denied to citizens of Maryland?”

    I can answer that.

    2nd Amendment rights are much more restricted in Maryland.

    1. I am not sure that is a good thing for all Virginians.

  6. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    I also want to add that these anti gay sentiments also hurt business. Progressive companies are less likely to relocate in areas that have restrictions against gays. Its more difficult to move their own people into an area.

    Uhh, right. Do you have any idea how many technology companies have their major east coast presence in the RTP area of North Carolina? The simple presence of the RTP area prove your statement wrong.

    1. @pokie

      Ahhh right….do you realize the law was only passed last night? You might want to do some research.

  7. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Actually, the more I think about it, the funnier that is. Yeah, business cares about gays.

  8. marinm

    Agree with Comment #1 that the states should be free to try out new things and see what works for them (consistent with the US Constitution.

    “As for Slow, what basic freedoms can one enjoy in Virginia that are denied to citizens of Maryland?”

    Try to openly carry a firearm outside of your home and not have a badge and see how fast it takes for the state to put a bullet in your brain pan.. Or, try and videotape a cop in MD.

    “Obama is still “evolving” on the issue.”

    Maybe he’s just not “evolved”?

    “I also want to add that these anti gay sentiments also hurt business.”

    Virginia is #1 for business, right? We have an amendment against gay marriage. It’s obviously not hurting us. Also, the law does not impact a private employers ability to provide insurance to domestic partners. So, if a company is progressive and wants to offer those benefits – they still can. Hell, a very large consulting firm even will pay for gender reassignment procedures and they’re smack dab in Virginia.

    Does it sting the progressives/liberals/democrats that in order for this to win passage that blacks sided with the GOP? Ouch.

    1. It depends on the type of business. It is a factor.

      Do you think that major companies that were integrated before the 70’s were lining up to transfer families to the south? Not really.

      The south didn’t become the sunbelt until after all that was settled.

  9. marinm

    “It depends on the type of business. It is a factor.”

    No doubt. Everything is a factor. The amount of sunlight or rainfall are also factors………. But, with a #1 rating I think Virginia is doing SOMETHING right..

  10. Morris Davis

    NC is my home state and I hated to see the Tarheel Taliban up our standing in the race to the bottom … move over AL, MS and SC, here we come. I guess it should come as no surprise. Article VI of our state constitution says:

    Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.

    The following persons shall be disqualified for office:

    First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

  11. Scout

    2nd amendment rights are constitutionally guaranteed in all states, CS. Slowpoke implies that there are “basic freedoms” available to him in Virginia that poor Marylanders can’t access. I was curious about that and doubt it to be the case. But I am ever eager to learn.

  12. marinm

    @Morris Davis

    Holy crap. You ain’t joking. That’s awesome!!!

  13. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Scout :
    2nd amendment rights are constitutionally guaranteed in all states, CS.

    Good, thanks for clearing that up. Do me a favor, go to Maryland and walk around with a gun on your hip. When the po-po shows up, tell them that line. I promise to donate 35 cents to your memorial scholarship foundation.

  14. Elena

    Morris Davis :NC is my home state and I hated to see the Tarheel Taliban up our standing in the race to the bottom … move over AL, MS and SC, here we come. I guess it should come as no surprise. Article VI of our state constitution says:
    Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
    The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
    First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

    I can’t believe this is still on the “books”! What a travesty.

  15. Elena

    Just because you can’t walk around with a gun on your hip does not mean your constitutional rights are being trampled. It just means you don’t live in the wild wild west, or maybe it means you need therapy to work on your self esteem issues as opposed to needing a weapon to prove your superiority.

    1. Cheer Elena. You left off something else (best Jon Stewart voice)

  16. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Seriously, go to ANY business you want (whose business model is not primarily rainbow sticker sales), and offer them amazing tax breaks but mention that you’re going to have an amendment banning gay marriage in your state. I guarantee you a memo will go out to all employees that very day that says: “we’re moving to the state of Rothals, and gay employees will have to learn to swallow a sword somewhere else.”

    1. You can’t guarantee me that so stop BSing. Virginia has a unique geographical position. The times they are a changing.

      It will matter more and more as time goes on.

  17. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Elena :
    Just because you can’t walk around with a gun on your hip does not mean your constitutional rights are being trampled. It just means you don’t live in the wild wild west, or maybe it means you need therapy to work on your self esteem issues as opposed to needing a weapon to prove your superiority.

    Thank you for translating into “hard-left” for us!

    1. Elena doesn’t need to prove her manhood.

  18. @Elena
    “it just means you don’t live in the wild wild west,”

    Or Virginia, New Hampshire, Alaska, Arizona…….

    Why is it that so many people need to project psychological nonsense about carrying a firearm?

    Perhaps said person open carrying does not have a concealed carry permit and is responding to threats, the state does not allow concealed carry, personally feels more comfortable with the ability to easily access the weapon, is disabled and open carry is easier, or…. because they can and they have a right to do so. Keep and BEAR arms.

  19. @Cargosquid
    One afternoon a local policeman pulled over a car with a broken brake light. As he approached the car he saw it was driven by an elderly woman who had a handgun in the passengers seat. A bit taken back he asked'”Do you have a permit for that?” “Of course I do,” she replied, “and I one for the pistol in my purse with extra ammo in the glove compartment.” Now perplexed the Officer asked, “What are you afraid of?” The old woman replied, “Nothing!”

  20. marinm

    @Rick Bookwalter

    God Bless that woman. She is empowered.

    “Slowpoke implies that there are “basic freedoms” available to him in Virginia that poor Marylanders can’t access. I was curious about that and doubt it to be the case. But I am ever eager to learn.”

    Self defense is a basic freedom. You as a person have a right to life. We take great consititutional pains to protect that life (4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments are great examples). When a state takes away a tool for you to provide for your own self defense (in MD’s instance not issuing gun “permits” to those apply unless they can “justify” a “need”) then they have clearly intruded upon a human right.

    “Why is it that so many people need to project psychological nonsense about carrying a firearm?”

    We call those people “Officers” or “Deputy”… Wait. What were we talking about again?? 🙂

    1. Most people in Northern Virginia don’t feel the need to walk around day and night carrying a weapon. If they feel that need, they probably need to move.

      Can and should do not mean the same thing.
      Psychological reasons? Human behaior is rarely random. I think it is probably a fairly smart thing to consider when you see human beings in 2012 walking around with their arms in Northern Virginia. Some folks would say it is a matter of surival to be suspicious.

  21. North Carolina – where you can marry your cousin, just not your gay cousin….

    😈

    1. Bwaaaahahahahaha! Well, Moe didn’t!

  22. Elena

    Look, we own guns, I have fired more than one sawed off shotgun in my life, including several different types of handguns. Trust me, I know plenty of people who own guns, its just that NONE of them feel the need to show it off in public, if you know what I mean 😉

  23. marinm

    Elena, what am I? Chopped liver?

  24. Elena

    No, I LOVE chopped liver, especially the kind my Bubbie use to make. You, sir, are NO chopped liver 😉

  25. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    You can’t guarantee me that so stop BSing. Virginia has a unique geographical position. The times they are a changing.
    It will matter more and more as time goes on.

    I forgot that you liberals live in a world where companies routinely forego tax breaks and any chance to increase profits or margins if there is a chance to “make a difference in someone’s life”. I’d continue, but I’m laughing too hard at your naiveté.

    1. Slowpoke, It might not be happening now. In Virginia, for example, much of our industry involves defense contracting. Virginia is probably not a good example to use for that reason. Let’s take Arizona or West virginia. How many companies are moving in there? I don’t discount right to work being an issue. It would be for me. However, there are industries where people care about quality of life. It has to be an easy move. You aren’t going to open up a main office in a state where some of your employees won’t have full rights.

      Remember the segregated south? When did the sunbelt really open up? After the segregation issue was settled. How do you bring people from IBM, for example, down to an area where some of the employees have to send their kids to all black schools? You think that wasn’t an issue? Check when IIBM came to town in PWC/manassas. Hint: right after the schools had fully integrated.

      The more equal rights for gays becomes an issue, the more states without equal rights will lose ground. It will be a process, not an event. It isn’t a matter or being a liberal. Its a matter of knowing a little history and looking at business decisions from an HR point of view.

  26. marinm

    WOOHOO! He’s evolved!!

    He’s saying it LOUD and PROUD! No longer on the down low…

    “President Obama, marking the end of a prolonged “evolution” on the issue, now favors allowing homosexual couples to marry, he said in a television interview Wednesday.”

    -LA Times

    Good for him for getting off the fence.

  27. SlowpokeRodriguez

    No, moon, I don’t remember the segregated South….just a hair before my time. I’m gonna have to call apples and bowling balls on that, though. I could absolutely see a company not moving to a state with “no blacks allowed”. But I don’t see any company not moving its corporate HQ to a state that dangles major tax breaks in front of it just because of probably less than 1% gay employees. “What if the CEO is gay” you ask? Well, if the gay CEO makes a financially stupid decision, the board is there to kick him out. “What if the CEO and the entire Board of Directors is Gay” you ask? Well, then you might just have a point there. That company might not move to a state with a marriage amendment. How many companies do you suppose that is?

  28. SlowpokeRodriguez

    @marinm
    And I bet it didn’t cost him a single vote he wasn’t going to get anyway! If what you say is true, then good for Obama for not voting “present” for once in his career.

  29. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon,
    Are you expecting gays to become that big a percentage of the population? Are you aware that gays can’t naturally reproduce? We’ve been through this before….no matter how many times two dudes smack their wieners together, no miracles are going to happen!

    1. Slowpoke, I just consider your graphics to be locker room talk and to be disrepectful in general–not to me…I grew up with 2 brothers and I have a husband and a bunch of boys. But I think it is disrespectful to gay men. The ones I have known in relationships thought a lot more of their partners than “smacking weinies.”

      So let’s start over. Respect doesn’t belong to a political ideology. I expect about 8-10% of the population is gay, from everything I have read. I also believe it occurs naturally in the population. What is your point?

  30. @SlowpokeRodriguez
    Man…TMI….that just sounds painful…

  31. Starryflights

    I think Slowpoke gets off to his graphic fantasies.

  32. Not that there’s anything wrong with that……

  33. @SlowpokeRodriguez

    What if the company employs gays that are proportional to the general population? Let’s say 10% are gay. It isn’t apples and bowling balls if 10% say no, they don’t want the transfer to AZ. There are companies that go out of their way to pay close attention to diversity when hiring.

    It might not be a problem today. 10 years from now? Not so sure about that. Companies of any significance have 5 year plans……It isn’t far off.

    More importantly, How does gay marriage hurt straight people? I just don’t care other than as a civil rights issue.

  34. Why are you and the news going on and on what the president thinks of same sex marriage? Since when does the presdient make the laws?

  35. Morris Davis

    @marinm

    Another part of the NC Constitution on voter registration says:

    Sec. 4.  Qualification for registration.

    Every person presenting himself for registration shall be able to read and write any section of the Constitution in the English language.
     

  36. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Starryflights :
    I think Slowpoke gets off to his graphic fantasies.

    Well, I don’t know what you “guys” do…that’s what I figure happens…..why don’t you explain it to me in more detail so I don’t get it wrong anymore!

  37. Scout

    Slow says he favours “Basic freedoms” so he would far prefer to live in Virginia than in Maryland. My question is what basic freedoms do Marylanders lack that Virginians enjoy. All I have gotten back on that is whether it is easier to open carry firearms in Virginia than in Maryland. That’s your idea of “basic freedoms”? Goodness.

    The right to keep and bear arms was clarified beyond controversy by the Supreme Court. That right is the same in Maryland as it is in Virginia. It’s a right subject to reasonable regulation by the state. But the right itself can’t be abridged. I’m a big fan of open carry in this weapons-studded environment. I think it would be a supremely reasonable regulation for Virginia or any other jurisdiction to require it and to ban this nutty concealed carry idea. But, having said that, I wish to associate myself with Slowpoke’s “laboratory of democracy” idea and say that it has nothing to do with basic freedoms if one state or municipality reasonably regulates a bit differently than another. The good ideas will gain adherents and political support, the bad ideas will wither.

    But when we’re talking about “basic freedoms” there certainly has to be more to it than whether you carry open or concealed. Doesn’t there? Is this how trivial our concept of liberty has become?

    1. @Scout, I sure don’t define my liberties in terms of whether I can pack heat in Starbuck or not.

      That Ultra sound bill….now that’s another matter.

  38. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    @SlowpokeRodriguez
    More importantly, How does gay marriage hurt straight people? I just don’t care other than as a civil rights issue.

    OK, now that’s a good point! I could care less what gay people do. I have never met one that I ever had a problem with (except Starry), and I could care less if they get married. Doesn’t affect me at all. I’m just kicking around the mental football a bit.

  39. SlowpokeRodriguez

    @Scout
    The right to self-defense is just one of many difference between Virginia and MD. I haven’t the time to list them all, but I’m happy to give you one more. I can drive around in VA and not get tickets in the mail. Every time I drive through Montgomery Co, I get a mailed request for $40 along with a picture of the backend of my wife’s Highlander and a statement that I was going 7 miles over the speed limit. It’s basically legalized pan-handling. At least the bums around Union Station don’t give me as much crap as the state of Maryland. Look, I would LOVE to love MD. It’s my home state. My 5th great grandfather fought in Stemble’s MD militia in defense of Ft. McHenry in 1814. My connection to Maryland is very strong…..but I can’t live there because I couldn’t bear to part with my freedoms…..but that is how it is supposed to be.

  40. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Moon-howler :
    Why are you and the news going on and on what the president thinks of same sex marriage? Since when does the presdient make the laws?

    Oh God…don’t get me started! Since the legislative branch gave up 95% of its responsibilities over the last 80 years or so.

  41. @SlowpokeRodriguez

    I do remember it. I bet you read about it.

  42. Slowpoke, what is it your think the president can do for same sex marriage? If he says he approves of it? So what? Is it possible to support same sex civil union and personally be uncomfortable with same sex marriage?

    He just announced he supported marriage equality. Ok. So. big deal.

  43. @SlowpokeRodriguez

    Oh crap, I got one of those ticketed invitations to pay $40 bucks too. Mine was near Mt. Airy. I don’t think we were speeding. Pissed me off! Mr. Howler if a Maryland transplant. I don’t think he misses it a lot. He wasn’t born there though. He is more of a Yankee boy but a Virginian by adoption.

  44. Scout

    To leave (at least for a minute or two) where we carry our shootin’ irons and speeding tickets as the fundamental measure of “basic freedoms”, I do wonder why any of the federal candidates feel compelled to say anything about state marriage laws. There is not going to be a federal marriage law. This is something very much left to state regulation (DOMA is left-wing anti-constitutional nonsense and it won’t last – you can always get people who deceive themselves into thinking they are constitutional conservatives to do great violence to constitutional structures if the substance of the depredation tickles their fancies). Why does it matter if the President, Vice-President or someone from the opposite party running for President believes this or that about marriage laws? It’s just one of those Mencken hobgoblin issues that justifies Mencken’s other observation that no one ever went broke (or lost votes) under-estimating the intelligence of the American people.

  45. Second Alamo

    Now there’s an oxymoron for you: Same sex Marriage, followed closely by Same sex Divorce

  46. Scout

    Another question, Slow – what’s the difference between the “right of self defense” in Maryland and the “right of self-defense in Virginia and how does that affect us as we go about our daily lives?

  47. SlowpokeRodriguez

    Here, here’s why I would fight same-sex marriage in my spare time. This link is about a gay marriage bill in Colorado that died due to some sort of legislative procedure. The supporters were shouting from the balconies “I hope you ^*$# die!” Anything that person wants, I want to fight…just to piss him off.

    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20578893/colorado-civil-unions-bill-passes-last-committee-supporters?source=rss_igoogle#ixzz1uNXMODHd

  48. SlowpokeRodriguez

    @Scout
    Sorry dude, I don’t know where you’re trying to go, here, but it’s too far off-topic for my taste. I’ve read your question eight times and I still don’t know what you’re asking.

  49. SlowpokeRodriguez

    OK, the only difference between the right of self-defense in the two states is that you cannot defend yourself in Maryland. How does it affect us? I hope it doesn’t, but if it does….you’ll wish you were in VA rather than MD.

    1. Show me the law that says you can’t defend yourself. Geez.

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