Summer Solstice at Stonehenge
It’s officially the longest day of the year.  In Pagan terms, its when the Holly  King overpower the Oak  King and after today, the days will start getting shorter.
Meanwhile, it is only fitting that the heat goes up to close to 100 ° today since it is the first day of summer.
We will resume looking at national parks after this brief interrupion.  Meanwhile, stay cool.  I just don’t go out when it gets this hot.  Does anyone have any secrets for staying cool that they want to share?

109 Thoughts to “Open Thread…………Summer Solstice……………Wednesday, June 20”

  1. Iced Tea, sprinklers, ice water in a kiddie pool, and gin and tonic over ice

  2. Elena

    great, suffering from horrible hives still on the longest hottest day so far…..FUN!

  3. marinm

    @Elena

    I’m sorry. Seems like you’ve been ill a good portion of this spring/summer. 🙁

    In other news. I think Darrel Issa was made to look like a chump when Holder was able to tell him to pound sand on his threat to hold him in contempt. Obama OK’d the use of executive privlege to withhold Fast and Furious documents and now Issa has no where to go. We can argue that it makes it look like Obama is trying to hide something or protect Holder but the reality is Issa couldn’t close the deal and people will forget about what the USG did. Your 15 minutes is up, Issa.

  4. Elena

    Thanks Marinm 🙂 I am wondering now if this is actually a systemic reaction to a tick bite. I can’t stress enough, and I am totally guilty of NOT being careful enough when I am outside to put DEETZ on to prevent the ticks from attaching. You’d think a five day stay in the hospital a few years ago due to severe reaction to Lyme/erlicheosis would have taught me!

  5. Cindy B

    I stay cool with my sequicentennial paper “funeral home” fan, purchased from Echoes, The Manassas Museum store.

    A tall glass of iced tea (house wine of the south) and a good book:

    “Maycomb was an old town, but it was a tired old town when I first knew it. In rainy weather the streets turned to red slop; grass grew on the sidewalks, the courthouse sagged in the square. Somehow, it was hotter then: a black dog suffered on a summer’s day; bony mules hitched to Hoover carts flicked flies in the sweltering shade of the live oak on the square. Men’s stiff collars wilted by nine in the morning. Ladies bathed before noon, after their three-o’ clock naps, and by nightfall were like soft teacakes with frostings of sweat and sweet talcum.” (Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird)

  6. punchak

    @Cindy B
    Wonderful, Cindy! I saw “To “Kill a Mockingbird” just last Sunday.
    This description of a hot southern day is imcomparable.

    As we of a certain age know, the summers were hotter and the winters colder then. :>)

  7. Morris Davis

    @marinm

    There is a bit of irony that on the same day Obama plays the Executive Privilege card to hide information from view his campaign files suit to compel Karl Rove’s PAC to be more transparent. I know that’s not an apples to apples comparison, but still …

    Also, you mentioned yesterday the NRA’s claim that the decrease in violent crime is a result of increased gun sales. I see that Republican congressional candidate Joe “the plumber” Wurzelbacher has a new campaign video out where he links gun control to the Holocaust (and filmed while he’s blasting pieces of fruit with his shotgun). That Joe’s a piece of … let’s say “work.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/gops-joe-the-plumber-links-holocaust-gun-control-in-ohio-campaign-video-drawing-criticism/2012/06/20/gJQAjJZKqV_story.html

    1. @Moe

      I saw that also about Joe the Plumber and considered posting it. I changed my mind because I didn’t want to hear some of our 2A folks here try to get all technical and argue the point.

      His commercial made me sick. What a tool.

      I HATE people trying to establish cause/effect relationships when none exist.

  8. @marinm
    Actually, the House can still hold Holder in contempt. I say push this to the Supreme court. Lets have that Constitutional crisis. If an administration can run guns to set up a “gun problem so as to create a need for more 2nd Amendment restrictions, supply firearms to criminals, resulting in the death of hundreds of Mexicans and the death of American LE agents, and then say, “Nope. I plead the Fifth, um, Executive Privilege…” Screw it. Special prosecutor time. Obama has lied about this for months. His story has changed multiple times. Holder lied, defied subpoenas, etc. He needs to be held in contempt. The House needs to defund the AG’s office, and anything else attached to this.

    @Morris Davis
    I find it the height of hypocrisy that Obama has the nerve to ask for ANY transparency in anything, but especially in regards to election finances, since his campaign accepts non-verified credit card donations. Over seas donations, anyone?

  9. @Elena
    Ticks? Go get checked for Lyme disease.

    1. Can the doc in a box places check for lime disease? How long does it take to get results? I heard on TV that 1 in 5 people have it. I am not sure I believe that.

  10. Oops…just read the ENTIRE post….you already are familiar…. never mind….

  11. Mom

    “Does anyone have any secrets for staying cool that they want to share?”

    Step one, prepare 2 gallon pitcher of frozen margaritas

    Step two, turn on video of latest BOCS meeting

    Step three, chug one glass for each lie told

    1. LOL god that sounds good. they put me to sleep anyway…BOCS.

  12. @marinm
    Wait a minute? Executive privilege? That would mean that there are communications between the President and Holder concerning F&F. Which is something that both of them denied knowledge of.

    I will await the howls of outrage from those that objected to Nixonian privilege over Watergate. Except that Watergate didn’t get anybody killed or commit crimes against another country.

    Perhaps Mexico should file charges….

  13. marinm

    @Morris Davis

    I’m tracking. I find that amusing as well. What kills me is that people don’t understand that this is the most transparent administration ever!

    I saw the Joe the Plumber blurb (but didn’t read the story). I could only groan. Part of having a free society is that sometimes people will do or say stupid things. I support his right to do so.

    Now, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms have an interesting website and of course they tell the story a HELL of a lot better than JtP ever could..

    @Cargo, I hear you but who cares? Ok, so they hold Holder in contempt. What’s next? A Constitutional Crisis? No way. Do you really think that establishment Republicans want to make this issue anything other than political? What I mean by that is – if they WANTED the information they would’ve held a contempt hearing months ago. Issa liked the limelight. He thought he could get some fame holding Holder to the fire with his threat of contempt. If he really wanted justice for the slain agent he would’ve gotten the job done. Instead he let Holder stonewall him for over a year and yank his chain.

    In a phrase from my generation: He got played.

    Issa can get the vote out of committee. He may even get the full House to vote for it but I think a lot of Establishment Republicans will balk at the last moment because they don’t want their guy – assuming Republicans take the POTUS seat next year or in 5 years) – to have lost that privlege.

    I’ll say it again. Congress doesn’t have the man-parts to do what it’s supposed to do. If they won’t check the power of the Executive? Who will?

    It pisses me off because we need STATESMEN not POLITICIANS.

    Mom, if I took your advice I’d be in a coma.

  14. Morris Davis

    @Cargosquid

    Speaking of getting people killed and crimes against another country, when are we going to get a special prosecutor to investigate torture during the Bush era? We invaded Iraq based on false WMD info from a guy who lied to stop being tortured.

  15. @marinm
    Unfortunately, I think that I agree with you. The Congress is full of cowards, refusing to uphold their oaths of office.

    @Morris Davis
    Let’s do it. I never had a problem with that. Except that you are comparing apples and oranges. If you can make a case and set it up…I’m all for it. Let’s get the Iraqis to set charges…..

    So, back to THIS crime…. where’s your outrage? I mean…. there’s actual evidence of misdeeds and lying. What did Holder and Obama know and when did they know it? If, as they say, its all Bush’s fault, then why not publicize the documents. Let’s let Obama bathe in the glory…… he didn’t break any laws…..right?

  16. Elena

    @marinm

    You KNEW I’d feel compelled to look at at website that supposedly “respresents” Jews. You and I agree on at least one thing Marinm, the right for people to say stupid things.

    Like this, from the founder of what is probably and echo chamber of a group:

    That non Jews seem to comprehend that in greater percentages than Jews, continues to disturb and disappoint me, considering that Jews are commanded to choose self defense. The Jewish religion teaches the absolute responsibility of self defense and the defense of the helpless. I can no longer refer to Jewish gun prohibitionists as innocently misguided, because JPFO has constantly provided them with common sense reasoning and the lessons of history. I now understand that many of them must be latently suicidal and, in many cases, emotionally unstable. They don’t trust themselves (because of their repressed anger against humanity) to possess a firearm, and therefore don’t trust others who do own guns.

    I am for sane gun control, not an abolition of weapons. I am against guns in bars, how much more stupid can a law be than to allow arming of drunk people!

  17. @Cargosquid

    But are you sober? :mrgreen:

    I sweat when I drink gin. Is that normal?

  18. @marinm

    You should have been around for Watergate.

    I am not so sure that those congressional toads should get to bully cabinet members. So many of them are just ….so lacking.

  19. @Cargosquid

    1. I have yet to hear about the Obama administration saying or doing anything about gun restriction. That crap started before he was inaugurated and so far is still just bs talk.

    2. Do you have proof of Obama taking illegal overseas campaign contributions? Didn’t think so.

    You are the ultimate partisan. Tell me again how Romney is so wonderful? Are you one of those people who just wants to tear down the other guy but you really don’t like your own guy?

  20. marinm

    @Moon-howler

    I think it would’ve been neat to be around during Watergate. Lots of angst against the government! Sounds like a great start!! Were women allowed to vote back then??

    “I am not so sure that those congressional toads should get to bully cabinet members. So many of them are just ….so lacking.”

    Kinda in the job description for both. On the upside now the AG is the first ever to be found in Contempt of Congress. Now if the Sgt-at-Arms has to go down to the DOJ building (no id required!) and arrest him to haul him before the House..that would be a sight to see.

    “You are the ultimate partisan. Tell me again how Romney is so wonderful?”

    Do you really see a difference between Obama and Romney???????????????? Both will continue Bush’s policies. If you don’t believe that you are blind to the last 3 years.

    “I am for sane gun control, not an abolition of weapons. I am against guns in bars, how much more stupid can a law be than to allow arming of drunk people!”

    Elena, do you think Commonwealth’s Attorneys or police officers can/should be able to drink while armed? Do you actually understand how the law is written and what is and is not allowed?

  21. Morris Davis

    @marinm

    Shouldn’t you wait for the House to vote before you say Holder is the first ever to be held in contempt of Congress? Also, how can he be first when Bush White House Counsel Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Josh Bolton were held in contempt? Here’s a link to the House vote back in February 2008. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll060.xml

  22. marinm

    @Morris Davis

    Sorry, I was quoting NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams.

    The issue is that he hasn’t yet been found in contempt by the full House, right? I was only mentioning that he made history as the first AG..

    But again. I’ll contact NBC and tell them their reporting was again weak.

    1. I thought he was charged with contempt this afternoon. I hope he flicked them off as he passed by.

  23. Second Alamo

    What does the story of Pandora’s Box and Obama’s latest actions have in common? Both stories end badly! He could have pulled this a year ago if there was a legitimate reason behind it, but now it can only be viewed as a last minute cover up. NOW people are really curious as to what those papers and emails reveal even if they had no interest in the past. If you know nothing about what went on, then how do you know enough to sight executive privilege over what’s contained in the papers that you supposedly haven’t seen? To uphold and defend the laws of the United States … yeah right.

  24. @Moon-howler
    Obama accepts unverified credit card donations. No other campaign does this. This means that those donations cannot be verified as coming from an American.

    As for the gun control, no. He has not done anything himself. Gun control is political suicide. But his positions support it. F&F was a project to make it seem as if registration of long gun sales was needed. The ATF was illegally requiring FFL’s to record those sales. The ATF then allowed straw sales to go forward,and assisted in the smuggling of firearms. This would allow American long arms to be found at Mexican crime scenes and thus, an apparent need for more gun control.

    Yes, my description is simplistic. Do you want to go through the entire year+ history of the Gun Walker scandal?

    As for it being partisan… I’d condemn ANY President that did either of those things.

    I don’t understand your support of this AG’s stonewalling or his contempt of Congress in his defiance of a proper subpoena.

  25. Second Alamo

    From what I understand, the pres will have to explain to congress the justified reason for the action of executive privilege, and it can only be taken under specific circumstances. Oh, this is going to be good, and no, this is not going to go away any more than Watergate did. I thought OJ was innocent too, that is until he was spotted fleeing from the police … case closed in my book regardless of a botched trial and lame jury.

    1. OJ? That is such a poor analogy.

      The past 5 presidents have claimed excutive privilge. I have heard and seen the bulls eye ring being drawn around Eric Holder since he was confirmed.

      Why would those POSs sit up there all proud? Proud of what? They can’t even get decent jobs bills passed. What a pack of fools.

  26. Starryflights

    Poll finds Obama takes significant lead over Romney
    (AFP) – 15 hours ago

    WASHINGTON — US President Barack Obama has opened up a double-digit lead over Mitt Romney in a national poll released Wednesday, even as a majority of respondents say the country is on the wrong track.

    Most surveys in recent weeks suggest a tight race for the White House culminating in the November election, but the new Bloomberg National Poll has Obama leading his Republican challenger 53-40 percent among likely voters.

    And while the public gives the incumbent low marks on handling the economy, they prefer Obama’s vision over Romney’s for building on the recovery, despite a wave of poor economic data that has emerged in the past month.

    Respondents to the June 15-18 poll say they prefer Obama’s vision over Romney’s by 49-33 percent, up seven points since March, when the Republican nominee had yet to be decided.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iRN0hLzpJBthygMHvPyzD-47D1bw?docId=CNG.780c4bf9e65b341af8332455cba1b2e0.3b1

    interesting that, despite the poor economic news, Obama leads Romney by a sizable margin. That is because most Americans don’t want a return to the crappy Bush approach to the economy that resulted in a disaster that we’re still trying to recover from.

  27. Cato the Elder

    Gift ideas for Eric Holder: http://goo.gl/vcHYq

    1. I guess Karl Rove dodged the soap on a rope bullet?

      I doubt if Holder will be in the big house.

  28. Second Alamo

    Ah, the difference is that other presidents admitted to their office being involved in the information that was being withheld. That’s why they were executing executive privilege. Obama, on the other hand, has stated that his office wasn’t involved, and so why the action? It’s contradictory to what the issue and the papers are all about, unless of course it does directly involve his office. Now THAT would make perfect sense. Relax, they re-elected Marion Barry didn’t they.

    1. Why weren’t the Bush folks who were also involved in the beginning allowed to testify?

      @SA?

  29. It was a sting operation that went bad. Hardly a unique situation. I heard republicans trying to politicize this unfortunate incident right after it started. Right now I think both “sides” have given the story a life of its own running on political fumes. How many of those clowns even know the name of the man who was killed? Probably none.

    Its political. Its BS. Both sides.
    Furthermore, it started under the previous administration.
    Both sides are wasting our time and money.
    Rep Issa makes me sick. So does that Indiana dude.

  30. Gov. McDonnell headed to Utah to attend Romney fund raiser. Too bad he doesn’t have time to attend to the horrible mess at UVA. He really does need to get involved. Waht happened was horrible, uncalled for, and it cost the taxpayers a fortune.

    Fiscally conservative? Not if it serves someone’s political purposes.

  31. marinm

    @Cato the Elder

    HAHAHA.. Love it.

    MH, the interesting twist to this is the use of EP to protect Holder. As posted before – EP was used because the Office of the President knew, was involved and wanted to keep the details away from Congress. DOJ initially said that the President was never involved. So, the use of EP here is VERY strange. It would be like if Sandusky applied at a Day Care for a job.. Any impartial person would see the logical disconnect.

    What I love right now is how many of my liberal friends are now scratching their heads trying to figure out how to defend this…. FB has been a joy for me these last 24 hours.

    1. I dont care enough about it to defend it. The only defense I think is needed is that it is Congress. They are fools. The are full of BS and Blather. They were going to solve problems before the election in 2010. They haven’t done jack. Tall talk. No action. Oh wait, they did nearly drive the economy off a cliff. Silly me.

  32. Even Holder has withdrawn the statement that F&F was the same as Bush’s program. Bush started a program, in cooperation with the Mexican authorities. When they realized that they could not safely track the guns, it was halted. Bush’s attorney knew nothing about it.

    F&F did none of that. Mexico was not included. Guns were not tracked… at all. They were simply allowed to cross the border and vanish until found at crime scenes. US gun shop owners objections were ignored and some were threatened with legal action if they spoke up. CBS proved that Holder knew about it months prior to his sworn testimony of “a few weeks ago.” WASHINGTON – New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

    On May 3, 2011, Holder told a Judiciary Committee hearing, “I’m not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.”

    Yet internal Justice Department documents show that at least ten months before that hearing, Holder began receiving frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious.

    THAT’s why Bush people weren’t involved. Operation Wide Receiver was not the same as F&F.

    1. Why is F and F even at the Congressional level? Another stupid republic waste of money, sort of like getting into Clinton’s sex life.

      How many millions are you spenders willing to spend on this?

      It was a sting operation that didn’t work out. That happens fairly frequently with sting operations. Why is it at a congressional level?

      What is congress’s goal? Ah, to embarrass the administration. How come congress wouldn’t allow the orginators of the ssting operation to testify?

      That question is being ignored. [hint: they were under the Bush administration.}

  33. Chris

    Looks like there’s another Republican throwing their hat in the LG race. Stephen H Martin from Chesterfield is now in the game. There’s still plenty of time for more to jump in the race.
    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/virginia-politics/2012/jun/20/martin-to-seek-gop-nomination-for-lieutenant-gover-ar-2002257/

  34. @Moon-howler
    WHAT? Its at Congressional level because there is evidence that crimes have been committed. It was not a sting operation. A Border Patrol agent was killed because of these guns.

    Holder even admits that F&F is not the same as Bush’s Operation Wide Receiver. THAT’S WHY. The operations were not related. And then, when Congress investigated what was going on because whistle blowers were “blowing whistles,” the ATF transferred people to Iraq to get them away from testifying. Holder completely stonewalled on this. He penalized agents that spoke out. Holder lied to Congress under oath about what he knew and when. There is proof of that.

    Operation GunWalker had no provisions to “sting” anyone since the guns were in Mexico and were untraceable. The Mexican gov’t was not notified.

    Are you so enamored of this administration that you believe that there should not be Congressional oversight?

    1. I am so UNenamored of congress that I wouldn’t trust them to do anything.

      Let’s repeat the question, asked earlier. How much money are you all willing to waste on this one? It reminds me of the wild goose chase over white water.

      I know you have wanted Holder but this bad?

  35. Just had a thought….if this WAS a continuation of Bush’s policies…why isn’t Obama praising Holder for bringing it to a close and pointing out all those evil things that Bush did?

  36. Starryflights

    June 21, 2012, 12:28 pm9 Comments
    In Speech, Romney Takes Softer Tone on Immigration

    By MICHAEL D. SHEAR and TRIP GABRIEL

    Mitt Romney on Thursday offered what he called a strategy for “bipartisan and long-term immigration reform” in an address to a convention of Latino elected officials in Florida.

    In the speech, which also touched on the economy, Mr. Romney dropped the confrontational tone he took on immigration during the Republican primary. Instead, he promised to work in a series of areas to help immigrants and their families while discouraging people from coming to the country illegally.

    “Immigration reform is not just a moral imperative, but an economic necessity as well,” Mr. Romney said. “We can find common ground here, and we must. We owe it to ourselves as Americans to ensure that our country remains a land of opportunity – both for those who were born here and for those who share our values, respect our laws, and want to come to our shores.”

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/romney-outlines-approach-to-immigration-in-speech-to-latino-officials/

    He actually sound sensible and reasonable on this issue for a change.

  37. @Moon-howler
    Willing to waste? THAT is the criteria to pursue an investigation for possible crimes? You don’t have a problem with the fact that it appears that our gov’t facilitated the smuggling of firearms to another country which has resulted in the deaths of hundreds?

    If this had just been a local project out of the Phoenix office gone bad…then why the stonewall?

    I’m willing for this investigation to go the end. At least THEN my money is being spent for constitutional duties.

    “White water” and this scandal have absolutely NO similarities. As for “wanting Holder,” I could care less about him if he stays within the law. So far, he’s been very biased. But he hasn’t broken any laws. Apparently now……it seems that way. He ALMOST committed perjury but was allowed to “withdraw inaccurate statements.” You and I would have been charged with perjury.

    1. This is only a scandal in the ‘witch-huntery” sort of way. It doesn’t have to match white water. It is unnecessary.

      You are willing to spend OUR taxpayer money to do a gotcha to Eric Holder and Prez. Obama who you dislike and make no bones about it.

      I think it is a tempest in a teapot. A sting that went bad. That happens some times.

  38. Emma

    I imagine Brian Terry’s family feels differently. The president is all about “justice for Trayvon,” but could not possibly care less when it comes to a slain border agent.

    1. Cheap shots. He can’t bring him back to life. Being a DEA isn’t without risk. A certain amount of risk goes with that job.

      Why are we singling Terry out? It is sickening when any of our border agents are killed. People die daily serving this country. Look how many other non-military Americans have been killed really in service to their country. I think all this recent singling out of Brian Terry is purely political and in many ways just shouldnt be happening. Why do I think someone is stirring his family up?

      They are vulnerable. They have lost a son and a brother.

  39. Morris Davis

    A friend of mine shared the link to this video. I emailed him and said thanks, but it should have come with a tissue advisory. I’m not sure they still make men and women like this, and it shows that for at least some French people the expression “we never forget” has real meaning.

    http://www.wimp.com/missinghusband/

    1. @Moe, you are right. Tissue advisory. What a remarkable story.

      I can’t help but wonder why we continue to have faith in this self absorbed, egotistical congressmen. All those year….And they simply didnt give a ****.

  40. Second Alamo

    Even if you consider the money a waste at least we will learn a lot more of how this administration operates. The money wasted on Solyndra apparently didn’t anyone anything!

  41. Need to Know

    @Morris Davis

    Moe, thanks for the link. It is a “tissue advisory” video. I don’t know which stood out more to me – the honor and dignity of Peggy Harris and the people of the French village, or the incompetence and lack of respect of the congressman and his office. I suspect Ms. Harris was not a campaign contributor.

    1. Definitely 2 stories there. I think Mrs. Harris’ dignity rules the day. Why let a POS ruin her absolute …I can’t even think of a word.

      Honor, diligence and devotion to her husband.

  42. @Moon-howler
    Well, the gun that killed him came from the ATF.
    They are said to planning a law suit.

    But, ok. He was an agent. They take risks.

    How about the estimated 200+ Mexican innocents killed by GunWalker guns?

    1. I don’t think that the 200 innocents can be proven. Its a botched sting. That happens, unfortunately. It happens with agencies, cops, and the military. Things don’t always work out as planned. Why is this being singled out? Do these groups just never take risk? Of course not.

      It really isn’t the best case to go after Holder. Just elect your guy and he will go away. That’s how it works. Let’s see…Ashcroft? Holder? I think I will take Holder.

      Guns get in the hands of the wrong people daily. People get hurt by them.

  43. @Moon-howler
    Again, it was NOT a sting. And it was not a local op gone bad. You are downplaying it because you can’t stand the idea that this administration might have done something wrong.

    Its not a witch hunt. It was revealed by ATF agent whistleblowers, who have been penalized. When given the chance to lay it off on the local office as a “sting gone bad,” they stonewalled instead. Instead of witch hunt, private citizens collected enough evidence to drag Congress to investigate.

    Can this administration do no wrong? What does it take for you to see ANY semblance of corruption in this administration?

  44. So, how was this “sting” supposed to work when the Mexican authorities knew nothing about the cross border smuggling? Or even the ATF agents working in Mexico? The only feasible purpose that this operation had was to provide weapons to criminals in Mexico. When those criminals were captured, dropped their weapons, etc, those ATF guns would then be traced back to American gun shops, thus giving “ammo” to those seeking increased gun control. The ATF had already tried to illegally implement a long gun registry on the southern border stating that there was gun smuggling…. BEFORE the whistle blowers exposed it. The gun shop owners were trying to get the attention of Congress too. The existing system was working. The shop owners were calling the ATF on “suspicious” buys. They were told to ignore their suspicions, sell the rifles, and the buyers were NOT interdicted at that border. In fact, ATF agents were told by management to ignore them.

    But sure…nothing to see here other than dead people. Nothing to see here, other than something worth lying to Congress about, nothing to see here except Presidential Executive Privilege invoked to hide….what? Botched sting op? Fire or discipline those that screwed up. But why lie to hide it? Why stonewall?

    Apparently possible wrong doing by the head law enforcement authority and the office of the President means little to you. Its OK to lie to Congress except when Republicans do it. Its OK to break the law except Republicans do it. Congressional oversight doesn’t matter when Republicans do it.

    As Victor Davis Hanson puts it: Would that the Obama administration had cared as much about protecting the security secrets involving the Predator drone program, the bin Laden raid, the operations on the Afghan border and in Yemen, and the cyberwar against Iran as it is does about protecting the unknowns of Fast and Furious. A cynic might suggest the leaked release of national-security secrets were thought to have enhanced presidential stature, while those of gunrunning might diminish it; so we are left with vital national-security operations now known to all, and peripheral operations along the border known not even to Congress.

  45. “Why do I think someone is stirring his family up? They are vulnerable. They have lost a son and a brother.”

    I just realized what you wrote.
    Why can’t they be upset on their own since it was a US govt supplied weapon that was used to kill him? There has to be an outside force that’s “stirring his family up?”

  46. Morris Davis

    I don’t say this too often, but good article by David Frum in the Daily Beast on Repubs going too far with their Fast and Furious conspiracy theory. He wrote;

    This theory is self-inflated and unsupported, but it’s widely believed. Probably nothing to be done about that. The question for Republicans is: do they really want to take this wild-eyed conspiracy to the country as a national voting issue in 2012? We’re not talking to the country. We’re talking-to ourselves—or rather, to a fringe constituency within ourselves.

    It would have been nice if he’d called Cargo by name rather than referring to him as part of a “fringe constituency,” but otherwise he is spot on.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/21/fast-and-furious-inside-joke.html

  47. @Morris Davis
    Fine. Let’s drop the supposition on motive even if that idea is the only thing that reasonably fits the facts. Lets look at the actual events.

    ATF assists “gun walking” of over 1000 firearms to Mexico
    No coordination with Mexico or ATF agents IN Mexico.
    Whistleblowers expose this.
    Border patrol agent killed. Hundreds of Mexicans killed.
    Holder lies about F&F and is caught lying.
    Holder stonewalls, doing everything from transferring possible witnesses to Iraq to refusing to cooperate with a subpoena.
    Obama admin states it has no knowledge of the op.
    Obama, instead of doing any number of other actions to resolve this, invokes executive privilege.

    That’s just the bare bones…. There’s more.

    And really, Frum?
    Frum is not known for going against the mainstream. His opinion that its a crackpot theory is just that. His opinion. And I haven’t seen anyone outside the gunblogger community, ie officials or “mainstream media”, push the theory. So…no. I don’t think that the candidates are Issa are going with that supposition. Frum has not been following the case.

    I am. I think its dead on. Because, while he disregard Bob Owens, Bob’s article takes the words directly from Holder. “As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons,” Holder told reporters.

    Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.”

    Except, at that time, the majority of weapons in Mexico WERE NOT coming from gun shops along the border. The majority of guns were being smuggled in with the drugs or being stolen/bought from the the authorities.

    http://pjmedia.com/blog/why-doj-released-the-top-fast-and-furious-suspect/?singlepage=true

  48. I understand that sometimes these ideas get “piped” in via your dental fillings.

    Please. No more conspiracy theories. I am going to tattle to Elena. You know what happens when Blog Mama Elena hears “conspiracy theory.” She might just treat you like a family member.

  49. Student loan rates will double in ten days if Congress doesn’t act to end a partisan standoff. There’s something Congress could be doing instead of conspiracy and gotcha.

    Also, Rep Issa has very bad manners. You know how that hits Den Mother Moon. His cell phone rings loudly during a Greta interview. (why didnt he turn it off before going on air???)

    On the set of Fox News’ “On the Record with Greta Van Susteren” on Wednesday night, the show’s host was interrupted when Issa’s phone started ringing.

    “Um, that may be the attorney general,” Van Susteren said as Issa scrambled to turn his phone off.

    “If it’s Barack,” he said, “I’ll tell him we’re not available.”

    “Maybe the attorney general is going to answer your subpoena,” she replied.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77694.html#ixzz1yVBN1TzX

    If its Barack? Smart ass. He needs to address the president, regardless of who it is, courteously, especially in public. Showing his lack of respect doesn’t make him any more endearing to the citizens.

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