We have avoided fast and furious because it immediately went to conspiracy theory mentality, the minute it hit the news stands. It made little sense and really shouldn’t have been escalated to being a conspiracy theory. the Obama administration has done nothing to address control. The idea that because you aren’t doing something means you are doing it just doesn’t fly.
Congress meanwhile in an attempt to undo the Obama administration has found Holder in contempt of Congress. Shame on Congress and shame on Rep Issa for his lack of real leadership. Again, our money is being wasted. Pardon me while I lose even more respect for Republican congressmen.
Mainstream Republicans want far away from this bad boy. Conspiracy theories piped in on people’s filings shouldn’t be used to hold Eric Holder hostage. Additionally, part of what Issa has demanded from Holder is not even legal.
There is no proof that Holder, Obama or anyone else is “anti gun.” In fact, Obama has gotten an F from gun control groups. However, with these tin foil ‘break their windows’ folks, even though the has been no mention of gun control, that must be a reason to do it. Totally insane.
How much money will be wasted to hold Attorney General in contempt of Congress? Millions? How fiscally UNconservative.
trestng. Are comments accepted?
I wrote this morning and nothing happened.
Two things.
Even Jon Stewart is picking on the dems for the hypocrisy of ‘the most transparent administration ever(tm)’ and you get a gem like this on Maher.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/23/rachel-maddow-real-time-nick-gillespie_n_1620826.html
Nick sticks a knife into Maddow, then uses the same knife into Maher’s back and then twists it slowly. In my circle of friends we call it pwnage.
@punchak
Something was wrong with it. Marin told me. I tried to fix it. I couldn’t So…I divided it up into 2 parts. The looking part and then the reading and responding part. Best I could do.
Who is Nick?
What does that have to do with the ridiculous situation in Congress?
Why wont Issa call the bush people who worked on this same project to testify?
Not saying it was a good idea, obviously it wasn’t…or perhaps it was a good idea that had too many chances for failure. However, the project is no longer active. Its over, done. It was a field project out of AZ.It ddidn’t come out of DOJ.
Why is spending millions on it now so important? Oh yea, its an election year. That is the problem.
Nothing will change as a result of the congressional inquiry. why waste the money. gotcha!
Nick is the editor of Reason. He pointed out very well how Maddow and Maher ate political hacks.
Looking at this subjectively it begs for an investigation if for no other reason than the DOJ not knowing what was going on under it’s watch. But that the DOJ *lied* about it not having high level guidance and the inclusion of the president it now begs the question of who knew what and when?
Nick was pointing out that anyone that really cares about government exclusive of parties would be interested in this investigation.
Well feel free to waste our money. To most of us who have been through these little political witch hunts, it certainly seems like business as usual. Political payback and all that.
I wouldn’t put Maddow and Maher in the same camp or even close. Maddow is a serious liberal journalist. Maher is a comedian/commentator. I expect that politically they don’t even agree. Nick should have gotten that right coming right out of the gate. How can anyone take him seriously after that kind of statement.
Day before yesterday I received an e-mail from the “Brian Terry Foundation”
asking for money. Has anyone else received one, I wonder?
@Moon-howler
“..serious liberal journalist.” is pretty amusing. A journalist doesn’t show bias. What Nick was able to do was to show her bias. Now, I don’t think anyone reasonable sees Ms. Maddow as a ‘journalist’. I think they see her for what she is – no different than Mr. Limbaugh or Mr. Beck which is to say they provide opinioned commentary. Journalism? Hardly. I think calling her a journalist is offensive to real journalists.
“I expect that politically they don’t even agree.”
Except of course they did in that video clip. Which capped off the amusement factor.
“Nick should have gotten that right coming right out of the gate.”
He did. Which is whats really funny about the bit because it exposed how much of a political hack she is – all she had to do is name one Republican she’s agreed with. Just one. Couldn’t do that.
And of course all of it was a deflection away from the story about why the DOJ lied (and was caught!) to Congress.
Journalists can show bias if they are being journalists and commentators. If they are being reporters they should refrain from showing bias and should maintain neutrality.
Apparently you have never watched Rachel Maddow. She covers serious topics and is always respectful of others and her guests. She is nothing like Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Bill Maher, yes. Rachel Maddow, never. I am just going to chalk up that ignorant statement to the fact that you have never watched her. You might not like what she says but don’t underestimate her as a journalist or commentator. Just as a reminder, several jouranlists from Fox News, including Greta Van Susterin jumped all over Cal Thomas for making a snarky, rude remark about Rachel. He apologized and took her to lunch.
I actually am not sure what you watched. It certainly doesn’t match what I am talking about.
Just out of curiosity, why must she agree with any republicans? Is that necessary to be considered a journalist? And its ok to agree with Bill Maher once in a while. I often to. I just don’t talk about it in polite company. I don’t always, however.
It might be a good idea to tell me the name of the video you are watching. I can’t even reference it.
@marin, Now I see the problem. I stupidly assumed that you were talking about the video *I* posted to go with the thread. Yo are talking about something you posted and ASSUMED I had looked at. I hadn’t.
If you are defending that guy’s behavior in your video, the conversation cannot go further. He was argumentative and insulting right out of the gate. Rachel Maddow was not given time to answer. However, I think I will go with Bill Maher’s answer on a national level. He is quite right. Extinction.
I disagree. Barbara Walters is a Journalist. Ms. Maddow is a partisan hack. I *have* watched her show (as Nick pointed out as well) that’s why he can say that she is a hack. With Ms. Walters her politics doesn’t come into the story and she keeps her personal politics close to vest. Sure people know she might swing to the left but her journalistic integrity doesn’t allow for bias. Ms. Maddow, while as you say polite, is biased.
I’m not saying bias is a bad thing. But, lets not call her a journalist. Again, it waters down the term.
“Just out of curiosity, why must she agree with any republicans? Is that necessary to be considered a journalist?”
Lack of bias is required. Kinda the point OF journalism. She can have personal politics but it shouldn’t impact her story. Now if she wants to be partisan I have zero objection with that. She’s pretty clever even if she is a moonbat. But I haven’t seen anything from her that didn’t have a very clear bias.
“If you are defending that guy’s behavior in your video, the conversation cannot go further.”
Really? That’s quite silly. Ms. Maddow is a big girl and can clearly defend herself. She had not ever thought that someone would point out her bias so publicly. For shame that the big nasty man didn’t treat her with the difference that all men should treat women…….
So, spending taxpayers money so that the Congress can do their constitutional duty of oversight is wasteful but spending 900 billion on an unconstitutional ObamaCare is not?
Furthermore, CBS (not a right wing org) also is following F&F and wonders why Holder lied about all this?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/?tag=re1.channel
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml
How can Holder have ended a program in February 2011 when he says he learned about it April 2011? Why the stonewalling and executive privilege claim? If its a rogue local operation gone bad, why doesn’t Holder jump on it? THAT would make the administration look really good. So, what are they hiding?
I’ve been following this since the beginning. If the motive WASN’T to set up a crisis on the border, then please, enlighten us.
There was no sting if this was a “sting” op. The Mexicans were not notified. The ATF in Mexico was not informed. The weapons were not tracked nor was there an attempt to track them. Those arrested as traffickers were the very same ones that were already known because the ATF allowed them to smuggle the guns. ATF agents complained to higher ups and were told to shut up and follow orders. The guns, over 1000, have been used to kill innocent Mexicans, arm cartels, and were dropped at the murder scene of Border Agent Terry.
So…no conspiracy theory…. just want an reasonable, logical explanation. Which has NOT been forthcoming from Holder or the ATF. Holder, himself, withdrew any comparison to Bush’s Wide Receiver operation, which ended 2 years prior to F&F.
You’re only hearing about this now because the President raised the stakes with Exec. Priv. The press, except for CBS, somewhat, and Examiner.com has been ignoring the scandal, hoping it would go away. But whistle blowers keep giving information to the bloggers that broke the case.
There is no need to have a congressional inquiry. You know all the answers. they can just consult you.
As for your question: ” So, spending taxpayers money so that the Congress can do their constitutional duty of oversight is wasteful but spending 900 billion on an unconstitutional ObamaCare is not?”
Apples, oranges. Congress was also supposed to fix the economy, at least according to most of them before the 2010 elections. I have yet to see that happen or for them to create 1 job. Yet all the campaign slogams and promises were made. Oooops.
Yea, its a waste of money and is a gotcha. Issa admits there is no evidence at all that the White House is involved. He just wants a big piece of Holder’s behind. I just don’t want to hear any more nonsense out of Republicans about “stop spending.” They are beginning to sound like throaty crows.
There is a huge conspiracy theory out there, Cargo. Haven’t you heard it? This is all part of the Holder/Obama plot to round up everyone’s guns. shuder! Cower.
As for “what did Holder know?” Not sure. I guess he is to personally know about every field office in every state. The sting is over. It has been shut down. Nothing will bring Brian Terry back. Whoever is using his name as a fund raiser is really crass by the way.
Oh, did Issa or did Issa not speak at the NRA in the past year or 2 and announce the conspiracy theory? Just askin…..
How was Myrtle Beach and did you win anything?
Some background: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/19/Holders-Brainwashing-Against-Guns-Foreshadowed-Operation-Fast-and-Furious
And the death of an ICE agent in Mexico may also be linked to his investigation of F&F guns found in a seizure. http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/06/sipsey-street-exclusive-investigators.html
Some background on the different agencies involved
Journalism has a broad definition. Think about schools of journalism. You can study all different things in a school of journalism, from reporting to writing, to news delivery to being a commentator to a variety of courses in graphic journalism.
You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of how ridiculous it is. However, as to the definition of journalism, which is based on specifics rather than opinion, you are simply wrong. Lack of bias is not required to be a journalist. Furthermore, if you have missed Barbara Walters ‘flavor’ I don’t know where you have been. Is it as pronounced as Maddow? No but its there for sure. Whether Maddow is an acceptable journalist is opinion. She has strong credentials.
Are you suggesting the Bill O’Reilly isn’t a journalist? How about Greta Van Sustern? What are they then?
Your pal there…Nick….has a bad habit of talking over people and interrupting. It took about 10 minutes into watching the great interruption game to finally figure out his point of view. He didn’t want to be considered a D or an R. He needed to beat them over the heads with it. I didn’t really hear Maddow and Maher agreeing with each other. Maher was the host.
You might be wondering where I found all the extra minutes….Bill Maher Show on HBO. Episode 21 Season 10. I don’t think much of old Nick but it is more his manners than his politics at this point. I don’t know much about his politics.
As for how big bad nasty men treat women, I expect men to treat women with courtesy. Actually, its sort of what separates the thugs from the gentry. Just consider it my version of class warfare–this statement that chivalry is not dead.
Meanwhile, I won’t take the final word on “journalism” from a guy who calls illegal immigrants “illegals.”
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/05/doj-deflects-blame-down-food-chain-bad.html
As I said, forget the motives of the program. THAT cannot be determined, only surmised by the evidence.
But there are now TWO problems. The Gun Walking scandal and Holder’s refusal to cooperated with a subpoena from an oversight committee.
Shall we take your logic to the end? Crimes should be solved because its a waste of money? Possible corruption shouldn’t be looked into? Incompetency and coverups shouldn’t be examined if the “problem” is over? Should Mexico just forget the supply of guns run across the border by the ATF? IS the problem over? Or are there still people being killed by criminals armed by our government?
The snark about me knowing all the answers is dumb, to put it bluntly. Just because YOU don’t care about these deaths and this ineptitude, corruption, and cover up, Congress should just forget about it. I don’t know the answers, but I do know about some of the evidence and the testimony. Apparently more than you.
But, you don ‘t care. So, forget about it. Watch Maddow try to spin it. Watch ABC ignore it. I know that I’ll not be able to get you to care. So…nothing to see here…move along…just dead bodies…… ignore the corrupt man behind the curtain….it might be “expensive” to investigate him.
Too bad you don’t care about what’s going on with the feds like you do your own back yard.
Am I in their back yard or are the feds in my backyard?
As for Mexicans and guns, how selective. You know, I really don’t care where thugs get guns. I would like to find a way to stop the gun running. Let’s drop back a bit…mmany of the guns that are used to kill people in Mexico come from the United States. This issue has been addressed time and time again by officials in Mexico, including the President. Stepping back, its pretty obvious what happened. There was a sting, yes…..a STING set up to try to trace the routes some of these illgeal gun sales take. It happened out of one of the field offices in AZ. Somehow some of the guns were lost. The operation failed. S*** happens. Frankly, it it wasn’t those guns it would have been others. The guns go south and the drugs come north.
Moving forward…Fox/hen house scene. Did Darrll Issa address the NRA with some ridiculous, preposterous tale of conspiracy about the Obama administration trying to round up all the guns or not? Seems that is an affirmative. Now, this same Obama hater (from his own words at the NRA convention) is trying to pin all this on the Attorney General? Hmmmmm …..do I smell a giant rat or what?
No, I don’t want an investigation. It is over. It will bring no one back to life. People are killed in the line of duty all the time. I would rather they weren’t but it is a fact of life. That is the risk you take when you become a border agent. It isn’t a safe job. What on earth would the conspiracy theorists do if the shooters gun didn’t have the mark of AFT on it?
Yes, I was snarky about it because you have known all the answers on it for a year. I ignored it as long as possible. I would like to ignore it longer. Rachel actually did a pretty good job with it. Better than ISSA did whith his NRA footprints all over the place.
Oh and where are the Bush people and how come they aren’t being brought in to testify? That was denied? They werne’t involved? Well, lets let them tell the American people that under oath.
I leave you with this. No conspiracy here.
http://youtu.be/2lIWMghw9Yg
If you don’t want to watch all 7+ minutes…. just watch from 5:35 for the key part about what I’ve been saying.
I watched (@Cargo) fine, bring on the bush people. Saying it doesn’t make it happen. Administrations should be able to change seamlessly, without the little people missing a beat. Their job goes on. No one is trying to blame what went on under the bush admin. on anyone, it is just part of the operation.
Gowdy is a loud-mouth AH. Sorry. Why make a political speech? If he was sincere, wouldn’t he just testify in a normal tone? He didn’t improve my mental attitude about congress at all.
They need to hurry up and spend more of our money. (stop spending????) What is their objective? Its to play gotcha with the Obama administration. Holder is a big fish. What will change if they find Holder walked those guns over the border himself? Nothing. Brian Terry will still be dead and the “fast and furious sting” will still be over. I seriously doubt that HHOlder has the time or the inclination to be involved in day to day operations in field office business.
Furthermore, there are records that cannot be released by law. Congress has plenty to keep it busy. Where are those jobs they promised? How about those taxes getting ready to expire? How about another debt ceiling? My portfolios are recovering enough to do something else stupid.
This Congress is horrible! They should hold themselves in contempt.
Btw, you keep bringing up “Congress was supposed to fix the economy.”
Well, it would help if the Senate would even CONSIDER the bills being passed by the House, but the DO NOTHING Senate doesn’t care about the economy.
And where was that mantra when the economy was tanking and the Democrats held everything and kept lying about the economy being their number one priority and then doing nothing?
I keep bringing up what those running for office told us as campaign promises. I promised to hold their feet to the fire. that is what I am doing. Where are the jobs? Where are all those promises that the tea party candidates ran on? I guess its not quite as easy as it looks, is it?
As for the Senate, how about those super majority handicaps? How about those filibusters? Hmmm..not so easy is it?
It seems that the tea party team is pretty much running in to the same problem, doesn’t it? However, they had big mouths and made big promises and I am calling in those promises every time I think about it.
The fast & furious mess reminds me how naïve Obama is. When he took office, many wanted a thorough investigation and accounting of war crimes and torture by the Bush administration. Recall that torture produced the false “intelligence” that was the centerpiece of the WMD justification for the invasion of Iraq, which ultimately squandered tens of thousands of lives and more than a trillion dollars of taxpayer money. The comparison of the magnitude of the impact of war crimes and torture under Bush to the harm caused by fast & furious under Obama is like comparing the force of a tornado to that of a good hearty belch. But Obama thought he was going to unite the country and that he could work with Republicans in Congress, so he took a “look forward, not back” approach that created impunity for the kinds of offenses we condemn others for committing. In negotiations with Republicans to extend the Bush tax cuts in late 2010, rather than use the cuts as leverage to negotiate an increase in the debt ceiling, he squandered away his bargaining power by separating the two money issues thinking Republicans would be reasonable (or at least rational) later on when the debt limit approached. After repeatedly getting slapped in the face when he tries to play nice with the other side, it should come as no surprise that Republicans are ready to rip off his head and crap down his neck over fast & furious. And it’s interesting listening to old clips from the Bush era where politicians on both sides of the aisle were making the polar opposite arguments on executive authority and congressional oversight from the ones they’re making now, proving again that it’s always about power and never about what’s right for the country as a whole. I’m not opposed to a thorough fast & furious investigation just as I believe there should be one for war crimes and torture, too. It’s our government funded by our money, so we have a right to know what they’re doing in our name (with some limitations that, unfortunately, have become the rule rather than the exception) and with our money. Citizens have the right not to be treated like a crop of mushrooms. They also have the right to be the focal point of their representatives’ attention rather than at best an afterthought in what is a game about politics.
@Moon-howler
Its not the filibuster. Reid won’t bring anything up for a vote. He kills it in committee. And its a lot easier when hold both houses. So, if you’re going to criticize, then criticize those that refuse to do their job, not the one that’s actually trying to get bills passed.
Go ahead and “call them in” even though it doesn’t make sense. Now, if we gain the Senate, I’ll join you in denouncing any politician that does not work to improve the job market. Of course, my ideas for improving it probably run counter to yours.
@Morris Davis
O.M.G.
You’ve drunk the koolaid.
“But Obama thought he was going to unite the country and that he could work with Republicans in Congress,”
He had no intention of working with the Republicans. He just didn’t want distraction to HIS agenda nor did he want to lose any possible powers that Bush had. Negotiations>
Yep. Democrat negotiations. DO IT MY WAY. And seeing as how we’ve been downgraded, the Republicans were right to call attention to the spending. The problem is that they failed to garner ENOUGH republicans.
As for WMD being produced by torture…is that the same intel used by numerous countries?
Is that the same WMD that probably headed north into Syria?
Is that the same WMD that Saddam implied that he had?
Is that the same Saddam that threatened to use WMD?
So, were you wearing MOPP gear during that conflict. I mean, since the US “knew” it was fake.
Oh, and was that nuclear program that was set to be put back into place as per the final reports, non-existent?
I hit submit to soon.
However, I agree with you. Investigations are fine. Let’s open it up. Get everybody up there. Make politicians justify their actions.
If you think that there were war crimes….get an investigation going.
Congressional oversight is there for a reason.
@Morris Davis
Get out of my head. You sure you aren’t dipping in the libertarian kool-aid? 😉
I’m still not happy that Issa took his sweet ol’ time to start using the hammer. I do think we need a full accounting of what has occured.
Everytime you bring up torture I still find myself conflicted. I really don’t know my feeling on it’s application against non-US citizens. A colleague of mine is going for her doctorate and did a paper on Gitmo – she gave me a copy of a book — I think it’s called Combatant Alien or something like that. I keep meaning to read it but am way behind on pleasure reading. Given the subject material IIRC its about how criminal aliens held at Gitmo should have constitutional protections.
@Moon-howler
I don’t understand your position.
“what will change if they find Holder walked those guns over the border himself? Nothing. Brian Terry will still be dead and the “fast and furious sting” will still be over.’
Are you saying that it would be ok to ignore this because Terry can’t be brought back? Are you saying that its ok for our gov’t officials to commit criminal acts against Mexico because they ended the program? Are you saying that its ok for our officials to cover up operations that make them look bad?
The point of this subpoena is to discover documents. That’s it. Issa has not said that Holder or Obama is as fault for F&F. What we do want to find out is who authorized it. And so far, the story has changed multiple times. And now, the office of the President has declared “executive privilege” over something that he has stated that he had no knowledge of, much less involvement.
Just because you don’t like Gowdy’s tone, does not diminish that his points and questions were valid. Does demeanor change the value of substance? Can he not be passionate in seeking justice? Can he not be passionate in doing the right thing?
Its simple then . Bring in the Bush people and the Obama people and ask them who authorized it. That doesn’t need to cost a million bucks.
Absolutely demeanor changes a lot. Weren’t you taught that as a kid? If he were sincere and not grandstanding, I might think he was telling the truth. Now, I just think he is being a politician with a lot of poetic license. Passionate? Big act if you ask me.
Go ahead. Waste our tax dollars with a gotcha congressional inquiry. If it isn’t that one it would be another one.
Why don’t they make a law that says don’t gun walk. If they wanted to stop gunwalking, then that is the way to do it. They couold even talk to the Prez and I bet he might issue an executive order saying don’t gun walk. Remember Ford doing that about executing foreign heads of state?
It doesn’t have to be gotcha. That is my point. If you want it to stop, then make a law saying stop. Ta daaaahhhhhh.
@Moon-howler
There was a sting, yes…..a STING set up to try to trace the routes some of these illgeal gun sales take. It happened out of one of the field offices in AZ. Somehow some of the guns were lost.
Please tell me how such a sting works. There was no tracking. There was no law enforcement in Mexico involved. ALL of the guns were lost, all 1000+. It was operated out of the Phoenix office. Higher ups in ATF approved it and chastised any ATF agents that alerted the office that it was not working and had been stopped from arresting those criminals involved. THEN, those higher in the DOJ were also shown to be involved. So who authorized the operation? And if it was local, why isn’t the administration trumpeting their success at stopping it?
Furthermore, we don’t need to call Bush people because HOLDER, himself, said that the operations were not related and the details of Operation Wide Receiver are already known.
So, again, why do you think money spent by Congress doing their Constitutional duty of oversight is wasted and a investigation into this DOJ operation a waste? I don’t believe that you would feel the same way if a Bush AG was up there.
It sounds like you already know all the answers so why waste my money and everyone else’s with political drama and theater.
I don’t recall Holder saying that. How about let’s call in the Bush DOJ people and see what they have to say. See if they corroborate Holder’s story. I mean after all, he obviously isn’t to be believed or there wouldnt be an investigation.
Congress needs to do what they said they were going to do…fix the economy. They could also hup to it and fix the student loan thing and work on the tax sdituation for this winter when they expire. those are the matters at hand.
It sounds like there was some AH way down the line in the Phoenix office. Imagine that…an AH trying to hot dog a situation.
I seem to remember a certain President Obama saying that HE was going to fix the economy and cut spending in half? Calls for Obama to live up to his words in 3…..2…….
Also, its already been proven that its higher than the Phoenix office.
Why are you so adamant that this couldn’t have been authorized at a higher level.
Furthermore, since all I’m doing is presenting what evidence is out there, why are you being snarky about my knowing all the answers? Again, why aren’t you interested in holding your public servants accountable?
All that Congress wants is access to documents. What’s the problem? I mean, Holder, et al, are trying to get to the bottom of this too, right?
Or is there something that they’re trying to hide?
http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/25/atf-leaders-email-could-be-fast-and-furious-smoking-gun-and-holder-admitted-obama-cant-shield-it/
I don;t think it is necessary. I feel it is a gotcha. I don’t know how much planer I can make it.
I wish Obama wasn’t foiled at every corner over fixing problems. Right now I am worrying that the entire health care program will be over turned because Scalia has indigestion or a sore something or other and the doughnut hole part of AHC is vaporize. That will cost my family a fortune. right now, under “obamacare” the doughnut hole medications are 50%. Overturned, it will go up much higher. I was already sweating the extra cost and my husband is on even more medication than last year.
Overturning AHC would be a horrible mistake. I don’t know why people want to continue to allow others to scab off of us. Some of us have paid for health care for years….and it keeps going up because of those who think they don’t have to carry it. Screw them. I am tired of carrying their asses and I canot imagine why “conservatives” are going to bat for them. Why on earth would anyone encouarge people to be sponges.
@Moon-howler
Because the gov’t should not be allowed to force people to buy things from other people.
We, as a people, decided that people should be allowed to be treated, regardless of the ability to pay. We made ALL medical facilities into “charity hospitals.” We had Charity hospital in New Orleans when I was growing up. It treated those that could not pay.
Or…nothing stops us from forcing those that seek treatment to pay or have liens….it doesn’t seem to stop the feds from doing that with student loans.
As for the Medicare donut… lets set up a separate bill for that, if we need one. The ACR is a horrible bill that most of congress is ignorant of. It was a power grab.
If there are problems, then address those individual problems. I don’t know what to say about your medical costs. But we’ve got them too…..along with “pre-existing.” Do we need medical insurance reform? Yes. But the ACR is NOT the way to do it. It was built with lies and bribery. If the gov’t can build a real reform bill, there would be no need to ram it through.
I doubt that anything democrats came up with would suit you, Cargo. The Republicans are welcome to create a bill. they had 8 years under bush. Where is it?
Our current system is not sustainable.
You know, I really don’t give a rat’s ass if someone is forced to buy insurance. I am absolutely not going to protect those who don’t want to buy in because I have hauled their tails for more years than I am willing to admit on this blog. The reality is, those who have insurance float those who don’t have it.
I think its time for all you supposed conservatives to stop propping these folks up.
It isn’t just my family…it is hundreds of thousands of people on medicare who go in to the doughnut hole. As things stand now, drugs will cost 50% in the doughnut hole. If AHC goes, the costs double, unless I don’t understand percent.
We will survive, for now. However, there are a lot of people for whom this decision will mean they might not eat. I am talking some big bucks here. My friend who has diabetes has been on medicare for 3 months and she is already looking at the doughnut hole next month. That should be a clue how expensive rx meds are. She also will be able to handle it. It won’t mean she can’t buy foot. Such is not the case for all on medicare. Over 50% of those on medicare rely only on social security. Max SS now is about $2200 a month.