127 Thoughts to “The Health Care Ruling: Are you happy or sad and why?”

  1. Clinton S. Long

    Individual Mandate survives as a tax, just released

  2. Please explain, Clinton.

  3. Clinton S. Long

    Chief Justice voted with the more liberal justices.

  4. Clinton S. Long

    Just coming in so it will take a little to give full details.

    If you want, follow this blog

    http://news.yahoo.com/the-supreme-court-s-obamacare-decision–live-coverage-from-scotusblog.html

  5. Clinton S. Long

    Apparently Medicaid provision is the only one affected but not invalidated.

  6. Individual mandate upheld under taxing authority. Not under commerce law.

    AHC upheld.

  7. Clinton S. Long

    This is an odd statement from the SCOTUS blog–

    “The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate.”

    Are all taxes optional?

  8. Clinton S. Long

    Clinton S. Long :
    This is an odd statement from the SCOTUS blog–
    “The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate.”
    Are all taxes optional?

    The blog just clarified it was a typo.

    Further, the blog says the following:

    “The Court holds that the mandate violates the Commerce Clause, but that doesn’t matter b/c there are five votes for the mandate to be constitutional under the taxing power.”

  9. LOL @Clinton

    That is odd. I hope taxes are optional. that would have made a few past audits in days of yore a little more pleasant.

    Did Scalia pontificate again?

  10. Pat Herve

    at least now there is some individual responsibility – and those that wanted to skirt the system and rely on others to pay for their care will have to contribute to the HC system.

  11. Need to Know

    Very disappointed. Obamacare is another massive entitlement program that we can’t afford. People can argue all they want that they consider it necessary, but the money is just not there. There are many things we feel we want or need, but in the end we must live within our means, or ultimately pay the price, which will be much greater if pushed into the future.

    Greece is learning that lesson now. Decades of borrowing to buy things they couldn’t afford has put them into an untenable position, and a huge depression. In the end, other countries will bail Greece out, at least to some degree.

    Obamacare puts us farther down the road to being Greece. The main difference is that for us it’s the end of the road. No one will be there to bail us out when we get to the same place Greece is now.

  12. So…where does that leave me? I have no medical insurance. I utilize the VA.

    And since I’m unemployed, I cannot afford medical insurance.

    I will not pay the penalty. It is NOT a tax.

    Taxes apply to everyone.

    Want to reduce the amount of “free” health care uses….deport illegal aliens. Because they will STILL not be getting health insurance nor paying penalties.

  13. Make sure you eat your vegetables. And get a gym membership. AND USE IT. The federal schedules will be posted soon. We don’t want Medicaid and Medicare recipients to be costing too much money…..

    Individual responsibility is not mandated.

  14. I find it odd that this survived because the ruled that the penalty was a tax. Obama stated that it was NOT a tax.

    So…new headlines: Obama imposes largest tax in history on middle class.

  15. Cato the Elder

    @Moon-howler

    No, it was Kennedy who actually wrote the dissent. Very surprising result, and just goes to show that prognosticating on such matters is an invitation to look foolish.

  16. Cato the Elder

    Quite crafty of CJ Roberts to join the left and write the opinion in order to clip the wings of the Commerce Clause, IMO.

  17. Pat Herve

    cargo – do not be foolish – you do have Medical coverage through the Veterans Administration – and VA Health Benefits are a valid plan in HCR and also in state like Mass where coverage is mandatory.

  18. @Cato the Elder
    THAT is a good point. Now if we could just overturn Wickard vs Filburn…..

  19. @Pat Herve
    Then I’m saved! Hallelujah!

    Too bad. I wanted to refuse to pay the penalty.

  20. Heh. The Supreme Court did this so that they could call President Obama a liar. YOU LIE!

    What?

    Well, he did say that the penalty wasn’t a tax.

  21. @Morris Davis

    So Moe, what do you think? I think that opinion might be over my head.

  22. @Need to Know
    Not doing it would put us further down the road towards becoming Greece.

    Those without health care are taking a horrible toll on the economy.

  23. @Cargosquid

    Illegal immigrants do not get health care. WE are paying for those who walk on their hospital bills.

    Cargo, can’t you get on your wife’s policy through work? The ruling didn’t say it WAS a tax. The mandate was upheld under taxing authority.

  24. @Cato the Elder They can all write opinions if they want. I am surprised Scalia missed a golden opportunity.

  25. @Pat Herve

    I didn’t realize that all vets got health care through the VA. My father sure didn’t and he was a vet.

  26. @Cargosquid

    It isn’t….yet.

    Eric Cantor has said they are going to repeal it anyway. wwowowowowowowowow

  27. Need to Know

    @Moon-howler

    Moon, that’s not correct. Obamacare represents at least two trillion of new government spending, that will have to be borrowed. The actual number will likely come in even higher. Plus, small businesses will reduce hiring because of the costs of this bill – you don’t have to pay for insurance for people you don’t hire. That reduces revenue from continuing the stagnation of employment.

    Most people do have health insurance. Many of those who don’t chose not to buy it, or are in the country illegally. I agree with others here that I don’t want to pay one cent in taxes or have one cent borrowed in my name to pay for any kind of benefits for anyone who is here illegally.

    There are other ways of dealing with the problem besides a massive new debt-funded entitlement program and expansion of government.

  28. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    He could have but depending on status–vets with no disability are near the bottom of the que. I know many vets who go to VA–some times waits are long but it is free.

  29. George S. Harris

    @Cargosquid
    I thought you retired from the Navy.

  30. Kool aid time. NO, most people do not have health care insurance. I know lots of people who don’t.

    Companies do have to pay for people who don’t have insurance. Every time a hospital or other provider has to absorb a cost for those who are treated but don’t pay, how does that facility make up for it? Bingo, they jack up the rate on the paying customer. If you get your insurance through an employer, the employer pays. If you are yourself paying, then you pay. Health care costs have risen much much faster than most other products in this country.

    The problem is, some of you all are just too middle class to realize that there are all sorts of people out there who are uninsured. Just because you all are too gentrified to see it living in Northern VA, doesn’t mean it isn’t out there. Those hit the worst are those in jobs that dont have health care coverage but who make too much money to qualify for govt. assistance like medicaid.

    I don’t claim to know all the ins and outs of out but I am not going to drink the Republican kool aid either and I do know lots of folks without health care.

  31. @George S. Harris

    @George, so my father could have used the VA instead of carrying health insurance?

    My mother threatened to put him in the Old Soldiers Home in Richmond. Does that count?

  32. George S. Harris

    @Cargosquid
    Moon raised a good point–if your wife is working and has coverage, why are you included in her coverage?

  33. Here’s a take on the court that’s unexpected.

    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/06/28/im-not-down-on-john-roberts/

    Moon,

    Can’t afford the increased cost of adding me to the health insurance. It would double in price. We are breaking even as is.

    1. Cargo, I am going to try not to sound like I am lecturing. You can’t afford to be without it. I hope this new law will allow you get on it. My friend just spent 4 days in the hospital…(actually longer but this was just one leg of it) Her hospital bill…not doctor or anything else came to $30k. An illness can literally destroy a family without coverage. This same friend’s husband lost his job about 15 years ago. They didn’t get COBRA because they thought they couldn’t afford it. He discovered he had cancer of the bladder. $100k later….. His father paid for it. No insurance.

      When my husband lost his job after that I made sure we got catastropic insurance. I had it but he didn’t and I coldnt get him on mine because it wasn’t open season.

      I really hope this new program will allow you to get coverage. My son was not covered because of his line of work. I almost paid for it myself. He got on his wife’s policy. Yes it is expensive. You really need to set your politics aside and look at it from the point of view of self preservation. Does your daughter have S-Chips?

  34. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    Yes, he could have used VA, but would have had to travel to DC or to Richmond for care. I don’t know about “Old Soldiers Home in Richmond.” However there is the Soldiers’ and Airmen’s Home in DC, which is on the same grounds as the “Lincoln Cottage”. However, you must be unable to take care of yourself, etc. Entrance requirement s a re pretty strict.

  35. George S. Harris

    @Moon-howler
    I’m with you on this Moon–we know there are at least 11 MILLION people without insurance and who knows how many more are underinsured. This new law is very complicated and I have serious doubt that NTK has a clue as to what all it encompasses–is simply spouting Teapublican rhetoric–you know–they believe you can fool all the people all the time–just tell the same lies over and over again and pretty soon they are the truth. So help me God. I think it is interesting that the Teapublicans are against this but have NOTHING to replace it. The same with jobs–they keep saying that the problems is jobs, jobs, jobs but the have not done one damned thing to improve the jobs situation unless cleaning up their male bovine merde counts a a job.

  36. You know…the more that I think about it…..I think Roberts took this as one of the few chances to limit the Commerce Clause excesses. Now its up to the American public to decide to either repeal or confirm. I think that this was the SCOTUS telling us…”you made this mess. YOU fix it.”

    Still wish it had been declared unconstitutiona…wait. As argued by the admin…that it was a tax…its not. But as argued by the Democrats in Congress and by the President….it IS.

    I do like and am happy that states can opt out without penalty on the Medicaid mandates.

    1. I am not sure what the medicaid mandates even are.

      I hope you are happy for yourself so you can get coverage. It is critically important. No coverage is almost a guaranteed trip to bankruptcy court if you get anything even semi serious wrong with you if you have no one to bail you out.

  37. Need to Know

    According to a Gallup poll cited in the Huffington Post (hardly a conservative mouthpiece or server of “Kool-Aid”), only 17.1 percent of Americans don’t have health insurance. I think that number is high, but will go with the Gallup number. Most of those people choose not to buy insurance, or are not eligible to be in the U.S.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/number-of-uninsured-in-us_n_1276189.html

    When I left working for an employer to run my own business, I didn’t go crying to the government, or blame anyone else for my situation. I went to http://www.ehealthinsurance.com and purchased an Anthem policy that covers my family, including dental insurance. I just looked at their website and they are offering a bare-bones health insurance policy in Virginia for $39 per month.

    The Kool-Aid drinkers are those who give us sob stories of people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves and demand that the goverment bail them out by taxing me and other productive Americans.

    I’m not a Tea Party member, but will be supporting any candidates who pledge to repeal Obamacare and end this debt-ridden job-killer.

    1. 17% of 300 million americans is 51 million people. I would say that is significant. No, most people don’t choose not to buy it. They don’t think they can afford it. haven’t you heard anything Cargo has said? My son didn’t have it. He didn’t feel he could afford it. I had a deal paying out of pocket. Group rate without an age penalty. Mine is only $535 a month. wowowowowwo

      That is more than a car payment…its a NICE car payment. My first house payment wasn’t that much. Do you know what a $39 health policy will get you?

      You are being far too middle class for me to even have this discussion. Do you know anyone who might be having a problem making ends meet for whatever reason? Know anyone unemployeed? KNow anyone who works in service industry where there are no benefits? Trust me. They are out there.

      Just out of curiosity, where to people who have lost a job get the money to pay for the health care?

      Furthermore, could we be a little bit more sensitive to Cargo? I am vacillating between wanting to protect him from unkind comments and kicking his ass for being against something that will help him out enormously. Can I do both?

  38. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

    This is actually an easy read.

    I will refrain from pointing out where I disagree and think that the court was “reaching” to reach its decision for political cover.

    1. Reminder-you aren’t a lawyer. Court opinion is based on many other opinions. It isn’t just the obvious.

  39. @Need to Know
    I’m going to go check out the ehealth website.

  40. Peterson

    I think this is great news! The bill is unpopular to begin with. Once it sinks in that we are stuck with this turd people will come to realize that we need to vote in an administration that will repeal and replace it with something that will actually work.

  41. Need to Know

    @George S. Harris

    You have no idea what you are talking about. I’ve studying this law extensively including its impact on the economy, job creation, debt, and the medical profession. I’ve spoken with doctors who are planning to retire as soon as possible if Obamacare is not struck down or repealed. They’ve told me that they encouraging their children not to follow them in the medical profession if this stands.

    You would be better served by studying this like I have rather than labeling people who disagree with you.

    1. So there will be no doctors and no teachers. I wonder what other professions will drop out.

      I am guessing George has studied it (not justifying his label hanging…although I hung middle class on you). George spent 4 decades in health care and its administration.

      The rest of us aren’t rubes and several of us disagree….strongly. The Republican-think isn’t the only right answer.

  42. Need to Know

    I just ran a scenario on ehealtinsurance of this hypothetical family:

    Applicant: Male/52, Female/50, children – Male/21, Female/17
    County:PRINCE WILLIAM
    Coverage Start Date: 07/15/2012

    They offered the Anthem Smart Sense 5000 plan for $383 per month, and a dental rider for an additional $84 per month.

    Affordable health insurance IS available without a massive government entitlement program. Take out the people who have not chosen to buy insurance and those not eligible to be in the US, and you have very few uninsured people remaining. To deal with unemployed people adjustments of unemployment insurance can be done to provide subsidies until they find a new job.

  43. Need to Know

    @Cargosquid

    I’m glad to be able to help by providing the information. I hope you find a policy there that works for you and your family.

  44. @Need to Know
    I saw couple of programs running between $91-150. Of course, that’s still much for me at the moment…breaking even now…and all that… but its something to look at in the near future.

  45. @Need to Know

    Throw in a few pre conditions. What does that coverage give you? How much are the deductibles. I can go pick out a pig in a poke. Studying said pig to match it up to your needs is another thing.

    NTK, sorry, you are being dismissive, insensitive and I would say that you really don’t know what you are talking about with the number of uninsured people.

    For the record, for those unemployeed and trying to keep food on the table, $300 bucks might as well be $3000.

  46. I won’t link to it here….no actual need to read the N words being thrown at Justice Thomas.

    But even in victory, the Left is attacking ANY dissent. Instapundit has the link.

    A whole LOT of tweets etc, calling him a slave…etc.

    Please note: I’m NOT saying that anyone here would do that.

  47. You were asking about happy/sad reactions: Ouch.

    https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=INDEXDJX:DJI

    That looks like 🙁 to me.

  48. Need to Know

    @Cargosquid

    That’s why an expansion of unemployment benefits would be a far better solution than a massive new entitlement program. We’ve discussed unemployment insurance on MH before and I said then that unemployment benefits are not welfare or government handouts. We’ve all paid premiums into unemployment our entire working lives through withholdings or self-employment taxes. If we need the benefits, we paid the premiums and should receive them just like we get a payment from the insurance company if our house burns down.

    I agree fully that unemployed people need this assistance. A subsidy to help purchase health insurance through the unemployment benefits system is the best way to go.

  49. Anybody else agree with these two opinions.

    “Weirdest decision in years, 4 say you can, 4 say you can’t, and Roberts says you can, but not because of what you think but because of what I think. It’s one opinion with 8 dissenters.”

    “As Justice Roberts says in his opinion: It is not the job of the Court to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.
    He gives us a clue, right there.”

    Some Republicans are happy about the decision. But not for love of ACR.

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