Happy 4th.
Somehow as we wish each other Happy 4th, I somehow feel that the nation has not been this divided since the Civil War.
My friend Bear has suggested that it might be the 24 hour news channels generating the hate and malice. I think he is on to something. Each host feels obligated to start up some contention. No show is a success without some good old fashioned partisan fury hurled at “the other side.” The blogs and online journals pick up where the hosts leave off and pretty soon, we are all at each other’s throats for yet another day.
I remember times when politics wasn’t this mean, nasty and just plain common. I wish we could return to a time when people disagreed over ideas rather than personalized elections.
I agree with Bear 100%. Any other ideas?
I believe you and Bear may have stumbled onto something. I do not watch Faux, CNN or any other of the myriad of talking head shows because life is too damned short. I don’t even stop by here much because of all the male bovine merde that many “guests” plop on here. So much hate, so much narrow mindedness, so much bigotry, so much hate–where does it all come from? Sad, sad, sad.
gEORGE, HAPPY 4TH.
There are some days I have to walk away from the blog and turn the TV off.
AMERICA, F*%# YAH!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_kx3Jz_Ks
Our TV broke and we haven’t gotten it fixed. In the news cycle over the UVa president’s firing and reinstatement, I totally sought news online — didn’t turn on TV, radio or buy a newspaper. And the discussion in the hundreds of comments was very civil. No ALL CAPS shouting.
I am grateful to live in a democracy with free speech. I can write a poem or an essay, go to Simply Sweet on Main or City Tavern Grille or Deja Brew and read it out loud on open mic nights and not get thrown in jail. I can write a letter to elected officials or the local news site and sign my own name. I can listen to others express their political views and not feel I have to beat them down with talking points. I can walk into City Council Chambers with opposing views to the majority and stand up and speak my three-minute comments. I can walk in the multipurpose room at Weems Elementary School in November, show my ID and vote.
Remember that guy who stood up in the BOCS during the rule of law debates and talked about the children of this region and how they were being affected by what we do? It’s the voices of the youth I want to hear. They’re not listening to what the TV news personalities say, they’re watching what we do, and how we treat each other, and how we are as a community.
Cindy, you certainly have made some excellent points this fine morning.
Thanks for giving us more to think about.
@George S. Harris So much grumpiness on a holiday. What you see as “narrow mindedness, so much bigotry, so much hate–” very, very many Americans see as lively debate in a country where no one ends up being interrogated by the authorities at the end of the day for expressing their opinions. I don’t think people are any different now than they were pre-internet–their views are just more out there, and I think that’s a a reason to celebrate (for the most part). I’m sure you’d be more comfortable to live in a country where people’s views are forced to be more in lockstep. Perhaps those are less “racist” to you?
Happy Independence Day!
@Emma, I see people as so much ruder now. Now this gets dicey if I look at when I was a kid. I lived through McCarthyism, Civil Rights and Vietnam. Still I think I feel a rudeness I don’t remembr as a kid and teenager. Maybe I just wasn’t as tuned in then as I am now. I have spent some time in my life where I simply didn’t care. I was busy doing other things.
I blame 2 things: internet and its anonymity and 24 cable news. I am in a vile mood if I listen to any of the stations all day and even if I switch channels. Regardless of who you watch, there is just steady innundation with the concept of “the others.” I don’t think it is emotionally healthy.
There is such an effort to divide, rather than trying to get people to find common ground on some things.
I asked my mother yesterday if she thought the political atmosphere was more contentious today than in the past and she thought it was. I said,”How about FDR’s programs, particularly before the war?” She admitted that there was a lot of disagreement but without the level of vitriol that’s present today. (That’s probably a generation that kept its views of religion and politics to itself.) Just because people are free to spout everything that pops into their heads without being jailed for speaking doesn’t mean that the level of discourse has advanced.
In looking at the quiz about the health care proposals (cited by Moe in the open thread) it’s obvious that people feel free to spout off with little knowledge. Given all the info out there, why wouldn’t everyone answer all of those questions correctly? The discussion should begin with all of the basic facts and then compromises should be debated. I blame people for being too lazy to do their own research but being quick to pick up the latest talking points shot to them in an email or over some blog that their opinions jive with already.
TV shows are also to blame whether it’s a reality show, news, or one of those exploding heads talk shows. They all up the ante to gain ratings. Why should we even watch most of them? They’re selling a product. And in many case it’s vitriol. Ask yourself if your dream home has granite counter tops, crown molding, stainless steel appliances, and taupe walls with an SUV parked in the garage. If it does, you just might be prone to getting your news in predigested predetermined fashion as well.
“I don’t even stop by here much because of all the male bovine merde that many “guests” plop on here. So much hate, so much narrow mindedness, so much bigotry, ”
Yep…. see some right there.
Happy Fourth anyway.
And to everyone else…Happy Independence Day!
@Moon-howler I agree to some extent with what you say. But many people on the left do just what George did in his post and pull out the word “racism” to mean just about anything they want it to mean. It’s gotten to a point where the word is almost meaningless except when it applies to any and all disagreement with the current President and his policies. It simply doesn’t shock anymore. Don’t like ACA? You’re racist and full of hate. Don’t like the anonymous drone strikes? You’re racist and full of hate. Don’t like that the debt has been tripled in barely three years? You’re racist and full of hate. What does that even mean anymore?
I agree that the word racist is overused. In fact, you will only find a handful of times that I accuse anyone of being a racist. I don’t think we really find racism in people’s words. Its what’s in their hearts.
I would say people on the left and right can be very rude. I wasn’t really even thinking about people going to “racism” when I wrote the post. I grew up in an era when the N word was used much more freely than it is today and sometimes by people who I would say were not racists in their hearts. I knew all sorts of people who used the term to sort out good from bad….as people of color who were bad. Those same people called out white trash in the white race.
Those people wouldnt fit in very well today.
Moderation?
I just realized how funny this is.
“I wish we could return to a time when people disagreed over ideas”
and we get these insults about any number of people that comment on this blog:
“I don’t even stop by here much because of all the male bovine merde that many “guests” plop on here. So much hate, so much narrow mindedness, so much bigotry, so much hate”
No talk of ideas, rejection of ideas, discussion, etc. Just insults. And yet, you feel its appropriate to insult people because you don’t agree with them. You don’t even see the disconnect between Moon’s ideals and your bigotry.
George, you’ve demonstrated in a few words what would have taken me an entire post to illustrate. Thanks.
Happy Birthday – Good Ole USA.
Enjoy the holiday with Friends and Family –
@Cargosquid I’ve read somewhere that bovines have a highly developed sense of irony.
@Emma
Moo! Eat more Chikin!
@Emma
Did I say,”racist”? I don’t think so. You’re the one that plopped that word on the table.
@Cargosquid
I think you need to go back and read many of your posts. They reflect a great deal of bitterness and what I consider to be hate speech toward those who are less fortunate than you and others who post here. You and many others on here would deny health care to 30 million people but why I don’t have a clue. You seem to have forgotten that the idea of affordable health care for all was originally a Republicsn idea until a Democrat came long and suggested it and now it is some form of socialism. You have accepted the latest bull crap (formerly known as male bovine merde) that the PPACA is a new tax program. Yes, you and others obviously hate the poor snd those who cannot fend for themselves.
Have a great 4th!
And if bovines are so smart, how come I’m having steak for dinner?
Moooo….enjoy that steak George.
I think people seem to think that these 30 million are going to be getting free health care. I don’t think that is the case.
No, you’re right. You used the word “bigotry” instead. My point still stands.
And nothing undermines a leftist argument more than the smug, self-righteous certainty that they have that their way is the only correct and righteous way.
Enjoy your steak.
Happy 4th to everyone.
Thought I’d pass along a thought provoking op-ed from the NYT under the lede “Is Our Patriotism Moral?”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/is-our-patriotism-moral/?smid=fb-share
@George S. Harris
I don’t need to read anything.
You insulted conservatives because you don’t agree with them. You did NOT address the ideas as Moon was stating. Congratulations. YOU became the poster boy for intolerance. I explain the reasoning and provide links and evidence. I do not do personal attacks on the posters here. I do my very best to be polite to them.
I have to agree with “affordable health care” or the mandate because it was Republican? Apparently for all your reading of my posts, you don’t comprehend what you read. I don’t support REPUBLICAN ideas because they are Republican. I support SOME Republican ideas because its only the Republicans that tend to be conservative/libertarian. Many a time here I’ve pointed out that Republicans are also responsible for this mess.
Also, while I personally think that the “tax” is a penalty, and therefore NOT Constitutional, the Chief Justice disagrees. Who am I to disagree with the Chief Justice AND the IRS? As Moon has pointed out many times to me… who am I to disagree with a “credentialed” one.
@Emma
But….can we be sure that we are correct without being smug? If we don’t think that we have the best ideas, why are we wasting time arguing about it? I’m certain that certain politicians DON’T have the right way and my ideas (along with many, more learned and wise people who agree with me 😉 not me with them of course) are the right thing to do.
@Cargo, Fine to disagree. Not so good to set yourself up as knowning more than the credentials in their field.
I am not so sure what the chief justice was thinking or doing. The high court should not be political. I guess the horse is out of the barn on that one though.
@Morris Davis
Very, very interesting. I liked it. Like a conscience, values of right and wrong, etc., the values of patriotism can be personal. Its what you do with that patriotism that is wrong or right.
@Moon-howler
That horse left long ago…..Marbury vs Madison.
In Robert’s case….there are so many motives being bandied about…I don’t want to guess. I’ll just talk about the results. Motives don’t matter.
Here’s putting all this into perspective.
Happy Fourth of July! Go blow up some fireworks and eat lots of food!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la_6bX7_O4M&feature=colike
Speaking of values, patriotism, and those types of things….has anyone seen the horrible video footage that CNN is showing about the atrocities in Syria? Beatings, sexual abuse, acid burnings, child killing. At what point do we decide genocide is gong on?
Where is the rest of the Arab world? Why are other countries not stepping up to the plate and telling them to stop?
The video made me sick. I have no idea why it is happening, other than the victims are obviously “others.”
@Cargosquid
An outlier vs a trend?
Now I think it is all political.
I don’t think we will ever know his motives, even if he explains them. <---------read into that one what you want. All we can do is speculate. I don't care enough to try to figure him out. I am just tired of show tunes and country music. Do people really like show tunes?
The rebels are being supplied by Saudi Arabia. Some of the “rebels” are actually Sunnis from Saudi Arabia. I don’t think Iran is involved. They like Assad since he helps Hezbollah.
If the Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia wins…. it won’t be any better.
Russia wants Assad to win since he owes them billions.
How do you tell the best armed military in the Middle East outside of Israel to “stop” without invading?
Of course, if Assad loses, so do the Christians who, at this time, are allowed to worship freely. So they have that going for them.
The religion really doesn’t matter to me. Christians, Muslims, whatever else is there….no sacred cows. Is this a religious war? Why the hell are they doing that? Why do they say they are doing it and why are they really doing it? What is the goal of each “side?”
How about drones and daisy cutters?
I am going through some sort of schizophrenia. I see those bastards terrorizing innocent people and children and then I see out folks sitting in the front row without legs, arms, half a head, real faces, and I think DRONE.
@Moon-howler
Show tunes? Did I miss anything? Personally, it would depend upon the show? Country music is the same…depends upon the artist. Do you consider bluegrass to be “country?”
Sitting in the front row of Capital 4th…our serivcemen who have had life altering injuries.
The moral thing to do is to go clean house in Syria but I am not willing to sacrifice any more of our people. I guess that makes me immoral.
No, blue grass is bluegrass. I have a cousin whgo play mandolin for a blue graa band. I don’t care for most of itr. I like some country music and a few show tunes.
The New York Show and fireworks, as usual, is 100% better.
The Capital one just keeps getting more and more…..dated for lack of a better word.
Cargo, do you get WETA? It is being reshown right now…re Capital.
NY one has lots of country music but mostly cross over tunes…
Kenny Chesney did some stuff on nbc. It has great fireworks.
@Emma
I have no idea why. If I don’t release you soon enough, email me. I usually get a notice but….hell, call me. I will fix it.
My depression is complete….Whitney Houston…One Moment in Time for the NYC fireworks.
It looks like the grand finale…and a tribute to her. Cry!!!
It was a tribute but not the grand finale. NYC is still going strong and it is 9:46.
@Cargo, I can never tell who is who with these little piss ass countries all killing and their own people in. I am appointing you our official blog Syrian reporter. You have to be objective though….You can’t call them bastards like I just did. 👿
Seriously….objective as far as American politics go. You dont have to be objectives about the syrian dirtbags.
Great Fireworks Show in Old Town Manassas tonight for a huge crowd.
Hope you all had a Happy Fourth!
(FYI- Last time a Washington team led a league in major league baseball
on July 4th before today — the 1933 Washington Senators. Go Nats!)
Glad everyone is getting home before the storm hits. Weatherbug is beeping all over the place warning about it. Quite a lightning show going on.
I saw part of the Capital show. Ours was from 2009.
We spent our time watching something else and cooking. Then sparklers in the front yard.
Cargo, it said that but what I watched wasnt from 2009 because they had some of the Olympic team there. I never knew why that 2009 stuff was put up there. It was a lie. Shrug…go figure.
Syria…. ok.
Syria is a difficult place. Assad took over from his father. His father was the epitome of a dictator. When the resident Palestinians decided to revolt, he didn’t just kill them. He reduce the city to gravel.
Syria is the enemy of Israel. They support Hezbollah and interfere with Lebanon. They were instrumental in assassinating the Lebanese president a few years back.
Assad is a Muslim minority….an Alawhite. Other minority religions tend to have more freedom in Syria…except Jews. Go figure.
Sunnis and Shias want him gone. Not just because he’s a horrible dictator but because they want to be the one dictating the laws.
Unless we want to go into every country that kills its own people….Syria is left alone.
We missed our chance when forces were firing from Syria on the 4th armored division while it was maneuvering in northern Iraq. I saw the press conference when Rumsfeld stated that if the firing did not stop, he was going to have the 4th Armored Division make a left turn and destroy the Syrian military and Damascus…..or at least the parts that Assad controlled. The firing stopped. That day.
Assad is a westernized Arab dictator. Is he worse than any of the rest? Ask the Iranians how they feel about their secret police.
Iranians should hate their secret police although they probably weren’t worse than Iraq’s.
Did you see where they are digging up Arafat because there is strong initial evidence that he was poisoned?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre
So the current status isn’t unusual.
Don’t feel guilty. We can’t save everyone.
@Moon-howler
They better be careful. There was also evidence that he died from AIDS. THAT would be embarrassing. Well…to them. Not to zombie Arafat.
And I’m going to stop there….I suddenly had WAY to many jokes and scenarios spring to mind. Not enough sleep.
The NYC fireworks made DC’s pale by comparison, although some of the music played didn’t seem to have any link with the 4th. DC’s music was more appropriate and higher spirited.
Arafat may have been poisoned by a radioactive substance.
Interesting that he fell ill while he was surrounded by Israeli forces in a bunker. Someone inside that bunker had to have done it, if they find that polonium was the source of his illness and death.