So, I think we may be establishing a pattern here. Diplomacy may not be Romneys forte. Not a big deal for a CEO of an equity firm, but as President, this could be problematic.
It’s one thing to accidentally insult the Brits over their ability to manage the Olympics. Its another to suggest that Arabs are simply not cultured enough to sustain a successful and productive country.
Let me remind everyone, I am Jewish (not like you can forget, I remind you people constantly I’m sure), but to suggest that culturally we are better than Arabs teeters is just plain stupidity.
Here are Romney’s words in context, because as we know, that is critical when analyzing statements.
“As you come here and you see the GDP per capita, for instance, in Israel which is about $21,000, and compare that with the GDP per capita just across the areas managed by the Palestinian Authority, which is more like $10,000 per capita, you notice such a dramatically stark difference in economic vitality,”
Romney then said some economic histories have theorized that “culture makes all the difference.”
“And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognize the power of at least culture and a few other things,”
Romney then went on to dig his hole even deeper by saying that similar disparity exists between neighboring countries like Mexico and the United States.
Here is the reality, there are a multitude of reasons why Palestine has not thrived. But you know what, I’m not even going to go there. When you visit a region, that for decades, has been a hot spot of controversy, WHY, WHY would you even say something that stupid, even if you thought it?
Not only did he insult the Palestinians, he insulted all Arabs as being culturally inferior. To put salt in the wound, Romney said if he won the Presidency, he would move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Does Romney not realize that Jerusalem is the most contentious aspect of the negotiations for a two state solution?
Saeb Erekat, a senior Palestinian official, said Romney’s comments are hurting U.S. efforts to restore Washington’s standing in the Muslim and Arab world.
“There are 57 Muslim and Arab countries here, and while U.S. diplomats are exerting every possible effort to explain their position, here comes Romney, with no knowledge of the region, its history and culture, and gives such statements, which will only serve as ammunition in the hands of extremists in this region,” Erekat said.
What Romney did was not just stupid, it is dangerous. So much blood and treasure has been invested in the middle east, all he did was create an even more difficult environment which to restart the negotiation process.
Since I am Jewish, by my very nature I support Israel’s right to exist. But what I don’t do, is give a free pass to everything that happens in the name of “protection.” Israel cannot do whatever it wants with impunity. I also recognize that when the rapture comes (the need for the state of Israel to exist for many conservative Christians)I will not be hitching a ride. The entire love fest for Israel feels so disingenuous. Israel has its own problems, just like any nation. It doesn’t need some American politician blundering and contributing to a hostile environment that already exists in the Middle East.
seems like taking what Romney said about Palestinians and stretching it out cover all Arabic peoples is a nice bit of far-left desperation. Best of luck with it.
These kinds of gaffes are really almost etragic. How did Romney get so far in life and know so little about the middle east?
Has he no knowledge of the history of Palestine? Cultural? I am speechless.
Maybe we should send him to Northern Ireland and have him assess the situation there.
He should have just not commented. That is a topic that, in Romney’s shoes, should be where angels fear to tread.
Elena, you are right. He just reaffirmed that all Americans hate all Arabs. I can feel the peace process crumbling as we speak.
I like a woman who is not afraid to defend cultures that meanies like me might refer to as “inferior”. Take those cultures where marriage counseling consists of “have you tried throwing rocks at her?”. Now someone like me might look at that and say “that culture is inferior”. But lefties know better! They know that if Obama went there and bowed to their leader, everything would be A-OK!! Y’all are funny!
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Pokie, I don’t think Romney did. However, it has been my experience that criticism of Palestinian culture will be extended to all arabs, at least in the middle east. That’s just the way it works.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Pokie, if you want to think that Palestinian culture is inferior, that is your right. I doubt that your opinion will do much damage. However….and this is the big however…..Romney wants to be POTUS. You can’t make dispariging remarks about someone’s culture, for God’s sake, if you are running for president. You know that and I know that. It doesn’t matter what he thinks. It matters what he says publically.
The incredibly successful trip that Romney is now engaged in has served to distinguish him and a Romney presidency from the insults and abandonment of the Obama Administration, in England, where he re-established our special relationship, and in Poland and in Israel, were the reassuring voice of an ally broke into – unreported mainstream media — cheers of support. With Israel facing a reemerging Russia, Iran and the unknowns of Egypt ‘s Brotherhood and Syria, the differences in support are stark, welcome, overdue and IMHO set the stage for a much less dangerous middle east. Yes, I understand the political need to raise the spector of racism and the need to accuse Romney of being stupid. It is fair game in an election where we have already had enough examples of Administration failure and stupid “out of context” (sic) remarks.
Elena, what you see as insulting to Palestinians and a”free” pass to Israel” I see as a call to action – to the Palestinians. Instead of blaming Isreal for the Palestinain failure as Obama has done, again and again, Romney sees two groups of people; one who has worked to make the desert bloom in a vibrant economy and the other so filled with hate, resentment and dependency that they cannot convert $ billions in social and infrastruture aid into anything except graft. Visit any arab county and what do you see? There is a great story- easilly googled – about how Bill Gates bought all of these greenhouses in Gaza after the accords and gave them as a gift for the Palestinians when they took control of Gaza to help them start building for a new prosperity. The grateful Palestinians – and I am sure you know of other examples in Gaza (schools for example) responded by promptly destroying all of the greenhouses because they once had been owned by Jews. Was that political, cultural or just plain stupid? As with the Brits and the Olympics, tough love and truth hurts.
Blue, do you really think it is a good idea to go into any country and disparage a portion of the population? Is this what a world leader does?
No.
It also sounds like you need to borrow the book being sent to Romney: Israel/Palestine 101.Somewhere in that course, it should become patently obvious why a remark about culture just shouldn’t be made. Now I am wondering if he told Polish jokes while in Poland.
He shouldn’t have questioned London’s readiness either. He should have nodded his head yes and smiled.
However, if he wins, I might lend you my dressage pin.
Blue, why do you think should be done about the fact that Israel has many internal problems with settlers moving back into areas that have been cleaned out, per agreement and also the ultra religious not doing their fair share as far as military obligation is concerned?
Look at it this way: diplomacy couldn’t get any worse than it is under the One. So Arabs are mad at us…..boo-hoo. Things could be worse for them! They could have a bunker-buster up their butts!
Tell us how you really feel, Pokie.
Its fine to big ass about the arab world but we have just spent billions of dollars, no trillions of dollars, on a war with several arab nations, and beefing up security. It really is smarter to make some veiled attempt at peace in this region rather than deliberately trying to piss them off.
People who have very little to loose are far more dangerous than those who have lots to loose.
Moon, I don’t think you were listening. I don’t think you want to listen. Romney did not insult their culture. He spoke directly to them. He did insulted their leadership and called for a change of course- with the benefits of that change starring them right in the face – er – over the wall. I understand why the Palestinian leadership did not want to listen and went nuts to yell over the message, but I think 63 years of failure is enough? It is time to stop the hate, end the dependency and put the shoulder to the wheel and change course and try something that works.
Blue, I know how to read. I still have my hearing. He wasn’t addressing the Palestinians. His ill chosen speech was at a fund raiser. How who do you think his words were directed at? It doesn’t matter whose “side” anyone is on. That is irrelevant.
He shouldn’t be insulting the Palestinian leadership. It isn’t his place. He is no one. The Palestinian leadership didn’t go nuts and yell over him. What are you smoking out there in Haymarket? He insulted the Palestinian CULTURE. In my world, that means the people, not just the leadership.
He was pandering to the Israelis and he stuff both feet in his mouth. I think perhaps it is YOU who isn’t listening.
http://www.whbf.com/story/19149564/romney-angers-palestinians-with-pro-israel-comment
@Moon-howler
For what its worth and since you asked, I think the settlers should be allowed to settle – period, without any restrictions and without any special commitments to their security or future property dispositions. Its a free country and as long as the laws are enforced equally I am for it. As for military service, how are they different form our Quakers and other relious groups who are (were) not subject to a draft. If they did away with the universal draft would it still be seen by the secularists as a problem?
Actually our Quakers weren’t usually given a reprieve from the draft. They were usually given desk jobs that didn’t involve combat. There were not nearly as many conscientious objector deferments given as people think.
I believe that their government removed them from the settlements. It was part of peace negotiations. Regardless, it isn’t any of Romney’s business. That is an internal problem within israel.
Back to the religious folks being exempt from the military. As I understand it, from talking to former Israelis, the religious people are far more prolific than the less observant and since Israel’s inception, the proportion of uber observants is growing far faster than the more secular population. Many of the secular are resentful because they feel like they are doing all the heavy lifting. It certainly seems unfair to me and more of the young Israelis are leaving to avoid that heavy lifting. Let’s face it, your chances of being killed or maimed as an Israeli soldier are far greater than the chances of that happening to an American warrior.
How on earth can Israel do away with the draft? They are a tiny country whose very existence is always in peril. It seems to me that there should be no sacred cows.
From the Guardian:
Yea, at $25.000 a head I am betting that place was just packed with Palestinians. NOT.
This action is NOT going to foster a peace process. Romney insulting Arabs will not be condusive to being portrayed as a fair negotiator. FYI to those who want to degrade an entire culture to prove their point, I don’t do that, it hasn’t worked out too well when the degradation has been directed at Jews so I think I’ll pass. I prefer to Do the Right Thing and not fall back a binary way of thinking. It’s critical to evolve one points from a simple black and white frame of mind.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/peace-now-israel-planning-73-300-new-homes-in-west-bank-1.271259
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/for-jerusalem-a-response-to-elie-wiesel-1.284454
Great letter about finding the solution to the greatest sticking point in the peace talks, Jerusalem.
Mitt has some things to learn about foreign policy, but the media focus on any gaffe or misstep he makes to try to discredit him. Their treatment of Mitt’s trip is far different from their treatment of the Anointed One’s Second Coming International Tour in 2008, or his subsequent Global Apology Tours after he was elected. Overall, Mitt’s trip has been very successful.
Obama’s favorability ratings are in the single digits in Israel, largely because Israelis know he is not their friend. I’ve been told by some high-ranking Pentagon people I know (that’s a clichéd term used for military sources, but it’s true) that Israel’s decision on attacking Iranian nuclear facilities depends a lot on their expectation of who will win the election. Israel knows that Obama will not back them on an attack after the election if he wins. Therefore, so goes the reasoning, that in September or October they are very likely to attack Iran if they think Obama is likely to win reelection. If done before the election, Obama will have to get behind them because of the strong public support for Israel in the US (Jews, evangelical Christians and others, including those who just like democracies better than dictatorships and theocracies). Mitt Romney is a staunch friend of Israel who has been close personal friends with Netanyahu for over thirty years. If Israel expects Romney to win in November they will feel less urgency to attack Iran because they will have a friend in the White House.
Ahmadinejad is a notorious Holocaust denier, and has pledged to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews. Another well-known, evil madman in the 20th century said the same thing and meant what he said. Israel is not going to let that happen again.
I’m not going to get into the culture issue, but will point out actual facts regarding Israel and surrounding nations. Egypt got rid of Mubarak but is again ruled by the military. Syria is in shambles. Jordan is doing OK, but with far less freedom and prosperity than Israel. The Gulf nations are rich and stable only because of oil, but are mostly dictatorships. None offer women anything approaching equality of rights and opportunity. If I were going to live anywhere in that region of the world, my choice would be Israel, hands down, no debate.
Elena and I would like to remind Romney supporters that you have not seen countless attacks on this blog. However, that can all change if you all start with the disrespect. Give a little, get a little. You can easily make your point without name calling. Mitt’s diplomacy has been horrible. It needs to be discussed.
Overall, Mitt’s trip has been fraught with mistakes. These things do spill over into the entire region. Peace talks certainly can’t be productive if the USA is seen as being that biased.
Romney has shown he needs to go home and study critical global areas and he needs to study Diplomatic things to say and not say 101. He is to blame and no one else. He obviously knows diddly squat about the Middle East.
NTK, your factoids about those various countries are not helpful or productive. Americans validating their prejudices against various Arab nations isn’t going to create peace in the middle east and the USA cannot be seen as a one sided bully.
The purpose of this thread is not to evaluate Romeny’s opinion about Arab nations or ethnicities. We are discussing his diplomatic skills. He gets an F.
There is no question Romney made mistakes on this tour. I just think it is frustrating for supporters to see the gaffes get so much play when so many major policy decisions of the current administration fail to draw a similar level of criticism or even scrutiny from much of the media.
That being said, I don’t believe the future of peace in the middle east rests on the diplomacy of Mr. Romney’s remarks at a fundraiser (at least I hope not).
Hi Observer. I think jumping all over gaffes or perceived gaffes is what this election is all about. I don’t think at this point, one side is more guilty than the other. I have heard it from both.
What concerns me is that should Romney win the election, is that how he would conduct himself as president? I think those are viable questions the voters should be asking themselves.
I am one of those weird voters who wants choices. In other words, while Mr. Romney isn’t my first choice (women’s rights issues), he certainly was my first choice amongst the Republican candidates. I was disappointed in how he handled himself on foreign soil.
I think that the United States of American cannot be perceived as sanctioning bigotry against a particular ethnicity or group. Yes, we can and should condemn specific behaviors but not cultures.
And exactly why is attacking Iran a postive? What is the fallout of such an action?
Do people like spending trillions of dollars and brining home over 4,000 service men and women in body bags? How about over 30,000 with life-altering injuries? I would prefer to avoid war at all costs. Who knows….maybe Iran will stick to saber rattling or their leaders will be dethroned. To me, war is the last resort and certainly is nothing to cheer about.
Very well thought out position Observer, thanks for sharing. But I agree with Moon, not even elected yet and Romney looks the bumbling “virgin” in foreign policy.
If Romney were with the State Dept., an embassy, or CIA, there is a strongly chance he would have been called home over his gaffes.
He needs to train before he even things about doing a stunt like this again. Even though he doesn’t, he is perceived internationally as respresenting this country. He left some very dangerous perceptions out there.
I believe Moon’s last post is right on point. The people who are Listening to Romney don’t know if he will be POTUS but for all they know he could be speaking for the US and that could be dangerous (they don’t know this is election politics) My grandfather used to say it is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool that to speak and remove all doubt!
@Elena
An attack on Iran would not be positive but potentially disastrous. That’s the point. Iran’s nuclear program is an existential threat to Israel. The Israelis have made absolutely clear that they will take whatever measures are necessary to neutralize that threat, with or without the United States.
Here’s the sad part. The vast majority of Iranians were born after the hostage crisis some thirty years ago and do not harbor the same fanaticism and hatred of the west that the Iranian leadership does. They are more like Turks and would prefer a society more along the lines of Turkey than what they have.
Nonetheless, you cannot ignore the fact that Iran is currently ruled by ignorant, fanatical theocrats and a psychopath who is looking forward to the return of the Mahdi and accompanying apocalypse. That psychopath suppressed popular uprisings of people who objected to his rigging an election that he actually lost to remain in power. Those theocrats and that psychopath are not far from having nuclear weapons. That’s the reality Israel must face.
Obama is not a friend of Israel. Period. He has never visited Israel and has focused all of his concern on whether Muslim nations like him or not (for example, the Global Apology Tours). For years, Obama sat in the congregation of Rev. Wright’s church listening to him spew anti-Semitic venom and never objected. Or if he did object it was quietly, and in private, and ignored by Wright, and not a big deal for Obama. One of Obama’s early dictates was to NASA to work on improving self-esteem in Muslim nations. That has nothing to do with NASA’s mission; and when is it our job to work on improving self-esteem in any other nations?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/07/white-house-nasa-defend-comments-about-nasa-outreach-to-muslim-world-criticized-by-conservatives/
Obama’s “outreach” toward Israel has been to criticize them constantly and make demands that not only weaken their security but threaten their existence.
This is not a criticism of the Muslim nations themselves, but of Obama’s incompetent Middle East policy that is making a war more likely. Yes, I know he completed the process that George Bush had started and the fatal shoot that killed Osama bin Laden occurred while Obama was President. I applaud him for giving that order. However, even as great as that was, knocking off bin Laden does not constituent a coherent US foreign policy toward the Middle East.
Under what circumstances is an Israeli attack against Iran most likely? Always remember that the context in which the leaders of Israel think is the Holocaust, not diplomacy or improving self-esteem in Muslim countries. First, if Israel concludes that Iran is on the verge of having a working nuclear weapon they will attack regardless of U.S. politics or who is President. Second, they will attack prior to concluding that Iran is on the verge of having the working nuclear weapon if they perceive that waiting will leave them completely on their own in the event they need to attack in the future. That means a perception that if Obama is reelected he would abandon them after the election regardless of Iranian progress in their nuclear program and in the absence of pressure from public opinion during an election.
If Romney were elected, Israel would know they have a friend in the White House who would help do whatever is needed to avert the need for an attack, but in that event would not abandon them. The greatest opportunity to avoid an Israeli attack on Iran is a Romney Presidency working credibly with Israel to obviate the need for such an attack.
I am going to call bullshit. Why not just say you are going to vote for Romney even though he has no diplomatic skills and be done with it. Obama is not the enemy of Israel. He isn’t a neo-con. As for recognizing the contributions that have come out of the Arab world, who does it hurt? You can go up and punch people in the face or you can win their hearts and minds. Which way is cheaper?
You have a bunch of math (to include algebra and calculus) , medicine, geometry, physics, coming out of that fertile crescent area. Its no skin off of anyone’s nose to acknowledge Arabic, Islamic, Semitic contributions. Romney was ass kissing and fund raising. I have no problem with him doing that. He can even say he will be a better friend to Israel then Obama. I mind him insulting a group of people. People have long memories. It serves no purpose. What’s the most distressing thing is, I don’t even think he still knows what he did wrong. He is just oblivious to how most of the world lives, including most Americans.
A great read: The Physician by Noah Gordon. Most people will be amazed at the contributions of that part of the world. The novel was a best seller in Europe but didn’t do as well in the United States.
Iran is a huge problem. No one says that it isn’t. Israel will have to do what it has to do to satisfy its own security. That’s the way it has always been. NTK, I found your tone to be paternalistic.
Meanwhile, we have Obama. Are you trying to convince anyone that Romney would be worse?
It should be an easy task to convince everyone that Romney is worse. Israel may then have a friend in the white house but none of us would (unless you happen to be rich also!). All Romney wants to do is add President to his resume. He cares nothing for the problems facing the average American. He doesn’t even surround himself with people capable of administrating a country.I believe he’s a nice man but his only strength is venture capital and that is not much help leading a country back to solvency.
He is probably also a devote Mormon which is a feather in his cap also.
I just don’t think he has the solutions the American people are looking for.
I think his biggest issue is that he behaves like a CEO instead of a head of state in these situations. I would like to think that with the benefit of more experience and the right kind of support from right people, he would have an easier time steering clear of these kinds of gaffes.
As far as the job he would do as president – I think it is stretch to say he would not be up to the actual realities of governing. He has proven himself to be an able administrator. I think it also fair to say that Obama has turned out to be a more able administrator in certain areas than many are willing to admit.
@Observer
I thought that Romney would loosen up some and seem more approachable. I guess that part really doesn’t matter. Part of my problem is, that as a commoner, I simply don’t think he would ever associate with someone like me. I am not sure that is what I want in a president. I thiought it didnt matter. Now I am not sure.
Yes, Obama has been surprising in some areas. I was a Clinton supporter.
“I was thinking I might vote for Romney….now I’m not so sure” HAHAHAHAHA!
Don’t be discouraged Pokie, you should vote for Romney so it won’t be so lopsided when Obama takes the State.
@Moon-howler
Moon, I said nothing about Arabic contributions to math, etc. We’ve discussed that before but I didn’t raise it in my post. My point was that I object strongly to using NASA and US taxpayer dollars for a Middle East (ex-Israel) feel-good program. Those nations should educate themselves on whatever contributions they’ve made. It’s not our job or a good use our money. It also is another example of Obama’s lack of interest in Israel.
I find it hard to believe that Obama supporters are arguing that lack of diplomatic skill or experience is a disqualifier for Romney. Obama had zilch diplomatic or foreign policy experience when he ran in 2008, and still has virtually none. Hillary Clinton, Leon Panetta and others have saved his arse on that account. Regrettably, Hillary has already said she is leaving at the end of this term if Obama wins reelection. Not that I’m a big Hillary supporter, but she is one of the few capable people in this administration. She is going to be a formidable candidate for President in 2016.
If you found my remarks paternalistic toward you or Elena, I am sorry. I intended nothing of the sort. I have a very high regard for both of you, even when we disagree. Paternalistic toward the amateurs who run the Executive Branch? Perhaps guilty.
You and Starryflights. You’re a couple of cards!!
Hmmm…is this insulting to Turkey, an ally?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183900/Barack-Obama-President-holds-baseball-BAT-phone-Turkish-PM-Tayyip-Erdogan.html
Oh dear God, get over it. You didn’t rest enough on vacaton, cargo. Brit paper. Who knows who he was talking to. Plus, STFW.
Its statements like that that just make me hate politics and hate our system of government–the Govt. of gottcha. It really does get old.
Some folks would enjoy watching the demise of the country if they could ruin a president. It makes me sick.