UPDATE: This afternoon Toure apologized to the audience for his use of the N-word yesterday and said that he should have done it differently.
From MSNBC:
On Thursday’s edition of MSNBC’s The Cycle the group discussed Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney‘s assertion that President Obama should “take [his] campaign of division and anger and hate back to Chicago.” Co-host Touré saw what he believes to be explicit racial connotations beneath what Romney was saying, calling it the “niggerization” of the campaign.“That really bothered me,” he said. “You notice he said anger twice. He’s really trying to use racial coding and access some really deep stereotypes about the angry black man. This is part of the playbook against Obama, the ‘otherization,’ he’s not like us.”
I am a little more comfortable using the term “otherization.” Actually, what a great word. Yes, it does exist. I hear people do it all the time time. It isn’t all negative. My 82 year old aunt called me in 2008 and told me in a whispered voice, almost apologetic, that she was voting for Obama. Yes, I was very surprized. In her telling me the way she did, she was otherizing….not a bad thing..but also something that can’t be overlooked.
Then there are the jokes people tell me, the email I get, and the remarks of the politically illiterate. I no longer have dinner with a friend who I dined with for 17 years. It simply got too contentious. 3 of us expected a national security swat team to show up when she made some of her remarks.
Yes, all of this stuff is roaring beneath the surface, regardless of who says it isn’t. Good taste prevents me from giving a few more examples. It goes far beyond simply not liking a candidate. Make no mistake. Toure is right about the existence of “otherization.” I am not sure if he is correct about this incident or not.
More importantly, it is a discussion that needs to happen…sometime. I think right now we really just need to accept that “otherization” exists. That is a starting point. Does Toure go too far? I think so. Does S. E. Cupp go too far in the other direction? I think so. Krystal might be the Mama Bear here…just right–at least just right enough to have a discussion.
Are we too race sensitive or not sensitive enough? Does every sentence carry overtones one way or the other? Should we just look at huge racial issues? How much do politics like the voter ID laws fan these flames? Does the media fan the flames?
Couple of random points about what Toure said:
1. It was on The Cycle, so nobody saw it.
2. I’m going to guess that 90% of Americans won’t follow Toure’s argument.
3. If they DID follow his argument, most should come to the conclusion that Toure is wrong. He’s reaching WAY too far to make his point. Racial code words……sure.
4. This isn’t going to change anyone’s mind.
5. Considering Obama’s background in Black Liberation Theology, how is he not an “Angry Black Man”? BTW, Toure, there’s a subtle difference between an “Angry Black Man” and a “N-word”. Here is yet another place your argument goes astray.
I think it is awful that Mitt Romney would attack Chicago politics that way!
@Slowpoke, I think you are getting on dangerous footing trying to discuss Black Liberation theology. I know where you are getting that from I don’t think it is going to fly.
Secondly, I don’t have an argument. I believe I clearly called for discussion such as those people had. You know, someone saw it. Someone watches The Cycle.
Do you seriously think there aren’t racial code words? Of course there are. They aren’t all words, btw. Some are very much non-verbal. Both blacks and whites. I don’t know about other groups. I am I know how to give the international sign of contempt in Italian but that hardly counts. The only people I am going to believe that out of are people who have grown up and lived in an area that is mono-cultural. I know probably 2 people that fit that descript.
They would sit there and stare at you if you sent a clue.
He’s unprofessional. Throwing out the N word was his downfall. If we are not to tolerate use of it about people I won’t tolerate it from him. I don’t like people who only do things because they can. Bullies.
Piers Morgan and now this….
I agree. If words are rude, then they are rude regardless of who uses them. Now, having said that…can we substitute otherization? Because it is a rude word, doesn’t take away some of point of what he is saying. I wish I could count the number of emails that have landed in my mailbox since Barack Obama started flying in the radar that did use that word.
Remember that dinner person….that is no longer a dinner person I spoke of yesterday? ditto. It wasn’t just over the word. It was over the package and the insults.
Can we move past the attention getter? Do you not think there is some otherization involved? How about all that “muslim” stuff? Foreigner? “Bastard?” Obviously Rev. Wright is sure sticking like glue. All sorts of stuff I can’t think of right off the top of my head. I should have kept a “joke ” file rather than hitting delete.
What did Piers Morgan do?
What, I don’t know anything about Black Liberation Theology because I’m not black? Whatever. If you really want an “Angry Black Man” go back into the First Lady’s background. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with BLT, or being angry about the way one’s people is and has been treated. Nothing at all. I will however stick by my point there there is a difference between the Angry Black Man and the “N-word” stereotypes. Toure (he can stuff the accent over the e), as all liberals, are relying on people to be mentally flat-lined in order for his arguments to have sway.
I never said that you had to be black to know anything about BLT. I expect you might have to be black to feel it though.
I have never read anything about Michelle that made me think that she was an angry person. In fact, I think her parents sacrificed almost everything to educate their children, who I might add, have done very well for themselves.
I am having a hard time seeing your point about Toure. I am not sure what it is even. Do you agree with Cupp then? How about Krystal Ball? Toure wasn’t the only person talking.
are treated
Another opinion on the Toure idiocy
http://youtu.be/dc1xrKLlOwo
There may be code words…I’ve never seen or heard them….but in this case…there are none. I have heard and seen actual bigotry. I’ve seen it expressed in whispers and loudly. But code words…. please, enlighten us. Because we don’t know them. The closest thing that I can find to code words for black people is “urban” or “inner city.”
“Angry” doesn’t come close.
Toure is INVENTING a scandal.
Funny how Toure wants to use a term last used by the Nazi party to describe blacks and black influence on culture.
Oh, and yes, somebody saw “The Cycle”. I suppose the dude who does it specifically to catch Toure using this word to make a super-stretched-out argument that doesn’t hold water and post it all over the place saw it. I wouldn’t put the viewership much past that one dude. It’s a real ratings monolith, isn’t it? 🙂
I am sorry that popularity and ratings are more important than what I was trying to discuss. Apparently I was wrong thinking that everyone else knew there wre code words. Perhaps I am the only one who is aware of them. Maybe I wear special glasses or something.
Good grief. I have been aware of special words since the Goldwater days. Some words are loaded and carry a little more meaning that one would find in the dictionary.
@Moon-howler
Really…please, email those words. Because growing up in New Orleans…I wasn’t exposed to other races. 😉 I don’t know these code words that we Republicans are supposed to be using to communicate back and forth. I’m missing out on important stuff!
I don’t have a correspondence class going over here.
You know as well as I do that white people have code words and expressions and that black people have words and expressions. Don’t act all turnip truck on me. Some are regional.
According Neblit, to Piers Morgan was not hard enough on George zimmermans brother! Robert when Robert appeared on Morgan’s show. Neblit told Morgan he Was too new to America to comment on what the impact of this shooting may have on America.
As you pointed out the religious background of all four candidates is different from the past. Things are changing and otherization is going to happen – Im not sure I understand that – but it’s a basic process for humans to form, storm, norm and perform.
I’m not going to buy into more words, symbols, history being wiped out or yanked from my vocabulary.
Code words? Isn’t that called vernacular? Isn’t that part of your family and cultural make up? Oh, I do love the south and it’s love affair with skirting the issue and using code words with a sultry flick of a fan. I’m from the north where you say it and move on – after a bit of yelling….
This is how the current administration happens. “I don’t see what making a profit has to do with running a business!” “I don’t see what the ability to sell advertising has to do with having a TV show!” “If the mouthpiece is saying what I want to hear, then advertising shouldn’t matter! We should all pay for it with our tax dollars!”
@Cargosquid
What word is that? Why were Nazis speaking English?
Do you not think otherization goes on in this country? If it goes on surely it spills over into politics.
@Lyssa
Its beyond vernacular. You are correct to some degree. I think southerners are more adept at it than people from other localities but that might be my own prejudice.
Code isn’t always about race. It could be Baptists talking about Methodists.
A bit of over thinking, I think.
I know for a fact that the premise that racism doesn’t have an influence in how people feel about Obama is simply untrue. Even if it is at some subconcious level, Obama represents a drastic shift in power. When people say Obama doesn’t understand America and its values, what are they saying? They are saying he isn’t one of those founding father white guys. Seriously, WHO doesn’t get that?
This is a joke that people found funny? Why?
“Don’t ReNIG in 2012”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/dont-re-nig-in-2012-maker-of-racist-anti-obama-sticker-shuts-down-site/
I feel like I am witnessing group amnesia! The obsession to prove Obama was not “really” American has been so crazy, somehow the argument became almost rational? Is Trump dillusional? I never USE to think so. But somehow championing the Birther hysteria became a credible point. WHY WHY, after 3 years, has this stupidity not been stamped out?
This is a bad example. There are others.
@Lyssa
Well, what are they?
I thought the thread example had three examples. Toure, Ms. Cupp and Krystal.
Like Elena, I KNOW its out there. I am not saying everyone who doesn’t like Obama susbscribes to some secret racism. I am not saying that at all. I am saying that otherness is a strong component with some people for their dislike of Obama.
I know what has been said to me by people.
Yes, it is out there. Anyone would be a fool to deny it. However, Romney isn’t doing it with what he said about Obama’s lower-than-whale-crap campaigning techniques. As far as race relations go, Obama (and more-so his surrogates) probably single-handedly set race relations back 40 years in this country by using the race card with reckless abandon.
The real victim in this whole thing is S.E. Cupp, who debases herself by being on this show.
“using the race card with reckless abandon”. Wow, what a twisted convaluted impression of reality!
And I think they’re bad examples. Othering has been part of human nature since tribes. Everyone else is a predaor. Election to POTUS is cut throat a very selfish and ruthless process and has very little to do with us.
“If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man’s life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.”
I would love for the left to continue saying that anyone that votes against Obama is a racist.
I’m sure people in the middle that still are open one way or the other appreciate being called racists.
Wow. Really? Can you tell me what this week’s winning powerball numbers are while we’re on the subject of extra sensory perception?
Oh and P.S. – I don’t like white Marxists, either.
Coming from you?
you guys are right “dont re-nig in 2012” isn’t racist at all 🙂
You racist! You forgot all the non-white and non-black marxists. Che for the win!!
Don’t worry you white people. My brown people will out breed you all in 20 years. We discuss that during our ‘meetings’.
The problem is that you would lump ANYONE who disagrees with Obama’s policies in the “give me one of those bumper stickers” crowd. I’m sorry, but nobody but your fellow libs are going to buy it.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
POh PUH-Leeeezzzz
I have never heard so much garbage about a president in my life as I have about Obama and I have been around a lot longer than you have.
I saw what Romney did to his opponents during the primary. I hope you aren’t pinning a halo on HIM. I didn’t much care but geez.
I don’t know of anything in particular Obama has done ruthless.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
I am so glad I linked your name to it. I am sure she makes enough money to ease her pain.
When you do whatever to yourself, you aren’t a victim.
@Elena
The boys in the hood did make me laugh…sort of like the Indians and homeland security.
@marinm
@Marin,
I don’t know anyone who said that. I know that my ex friend said some things about those who voted for Obama…that they did so out of white guilt or something like that.
This thread was supposed to be about “otherization.” Racism is just one component of otherization. Are there other factors?
It feels like you’re trying to get me to sing Romney’s praises. That I cannot do. I like Ryan, but I’m no particular fan of Romney. And instead of talking about what Romney did to his primary opponents, I prefer to look at what Obama and his surrogates did to Hillary. That’s more entertaining. And you just KNOW Bubba isn’t sore about that anymore!
I am sure they worked it out. It took me a while to work it out actually. She also should have seen that coming. I saw it in 2004. there was no doubt in my mind what was coming.
Truthfully, the Republicans should have seen it coming also. After that Swiftboat crap that went on, they should have know it was coming and they were going to be made to hurt.
Instead, they brought a chihauhau to a knife fight. Lots of yap, no substance. Joe might be king of gaffe but he has been around a long time and has forgotten more about foreign policy than most legislators have ever learned.
Palin was and continues to be an embarrassment. Had Ryan been tempered and selected in 2008, things might have broken differently….maybe.
@Pokie
Not trying to get you to sing his praises. He is better than the march of clowns for sure though. I didnt used to dislike him. I am beginning to jut because he has some traits I dont like. However, I can live with him if I have to. I won’t like it but I can do it. I don’t think Paul Ryan is a fool. I just don’t like his political beliefs but it isn’t personal.
This is all set in my mind but I don’t think I am expressing it too well.
Slow,
I don’t lump anyone together, but to ignore the reality that exists is simply disengenous to any real conversation. If you vote for Obama it’s “white guilt” if you don’t vote for Obama you are racist. The VERY fact that we have this dichotomty proves we are not a “blind” society.
Here is the problem, too many eff ups by the republicans or teapublicans helps assert this opinion of mine. Stupid racist jokes via e-mail, stupid signs by tea party extremeist morons, too many interjections of obvious or sometimes, not so obvious racism.
http://www.thenation.com/article/165576/gops-blatant-racism#
The Nation? Gary Younge? Uhhh, yeah.
Listening to y’all sing Biden’s praises on foreign policy is TOO funny! How many nations did he want to split Iraq into? He’s forgotten more about foreign policy…..period, end of sentence. It must kill you folks to be stuck with Biden knowing the whole world is laughing about it.
The fact that we were in Iraq in the first place should embarrass you. Might as well split them up. They killed 150 today, in their own country. Perhaps that is what is going on now….splitting up Iraq. Stupid idea??
@Moon-howler
Why should it embarrass me? I wasn’t for it in the first place. I always figured it was the younger Bush’s attempt to finish what Daddy started. If Obama had any brains, he’d be pointing out that he got us out of Iraq….or did he?
Hell if I know. re Obama getting us out of iraq. I honestly don’t rmember. Its all one big blend. That is a sad commentary on a war that cost so many lives, produced more life-altering injuries, and in general disrupted so many lives of service men and women.
To be fair, when a candidate declares right out of the chute that he wants to “fundamentally change America,” that can mean a lot of different things to people. If there really is an “otherization,” Obama did his part to let us all know how he was going to be different. A lot of his earlier messages were designed to set him apart.
Don’t all candidates tell us they want to change things? Why would we vote for anyone who came along saying Same Old Same Old?
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. However, it IS broke, badly. Unfortunately for Obama, breaking it more doesn’t seem to be the answer.
Pretty sure when a country is on the preicpous of the worst economic disaster since the depression, that candidate sure as hell better say they plan on real change!
Slow,
Those examples, no matter, the points are valid. What about “barak the magic negro” is THAT racist?
How about refuting the statements, copied verbatum in the article, that would be a more relevant discussion than who wrote the article.
@Moon-howler Of course they do. But the “fundamentally change America” theme does not always resonate with some folks, and is a lot different from telling Americans how you will improve employment, the economy, and win or get out of wars. It speaks to something a bit more primal in many people’s minds. and tends to make them defensive.
I have to tell you, so far I’m pleased with press this incident has received. Thus far, Toure’s use of the N-Word seems to be getting the reaction it deserves. Look at it this way, it’s the most press The Cycle is likely ever to get, so perhaps Toure should spend the better part of his allotted time referring to the President as an N-Word.
@Pokie
Cartoon time isn’t over yet?
Seriously, is that the most important thing that happened last week in your mind? Some fairly unknown person uses alterned form of the N word about the president. Hmmmm…I bet that happens a lot more than you realize. Auntie Elena will find you examples.
My hunch is that the “otherization” they’re referring to (and afraid of) is “other than President”.
@Elena
Well, here’s the guy that first used the term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ehrenstein
He is a black columnist.
Many corrections here, Cargo. Ehrenstein is more Jewish than he is black. This isn’t South Africa where a drop counts as “colored.” Can we comfortably say he is bi-racial? However, he often describes himself as “African American” so my motto is that person gets to decide.
Secondly, the “magic negro” expression has been around a long time at least the last half of the 20th century. Ehrenstein might have been the first person to publically put it in front of Barack but he didn’t invent the term.
He also wasn’t really attacking Obama in his article dating back to March 2007. He was jabbing at white America. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/19/opinion/oe-ehrenstein19
The Republicans wrote the parody that involved Al Sharpton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N08ZIsSPKuo
or for more explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-Bao4VUQmI
Sorry, I am not going to allow this one to be white-washed by time passing.