I think there probably needs to be a place for general remarks about the middle east.
It seems that uprisings at American Embassies are escalating all over north Africa and the Middle East.
The general thought by the protesters is that President Obama should apologize to all of them (whoever “them” is) and burn the tape in front of them. Common thought is that the US government somehow created the video.
That’s pretty difficult to fight….it’s sort of like responding to “when did you stop beating your wife?”
2013 could shape up to be a rough year. The political climate is already tense in the Middle East and elsewhere. Recall that the Arab spring was brought on mainly by rising food prices. This problem is going to get worse. The U.S., one of the major food and grain exporters, and other food producing countries, suffered one of the worst droughts since the 1930s this year and output has tumbled. Food prices are likely to rise much faster in 2013 than they did in 2012. Economists and political analysts are already looking ahead to the potential of that situation to escalate unrest in areas that are already troubled.
So we need to assess what our biggest threat is – domestic policy/economy or international. And Clinton plans to leave in January…..
President Obama and Secretary Clinton is handling the situation with poise, grace and the right balance of strength and overtures to peace. Today he said that the Egyptian government is not an ally or an enemy.
I hope our candidates do have a robust debate about foreign policy. We need one. I would like to know just what is Mr Romney’s position on middle east affairs. What is his position on American interests in the region? So far his statements on such matters have been clumsy, confused and contradictory. What are his positions on Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries in the region? If he wants a larger military, how does he intend to pay for it? Let us have that debate.
i hope this isn’t another case of cowboy diplomacy.
You know, the crowd who wants to nuke and send daisy cutters, then bitches about how much everything costs, except the patriot missiles, the daisy cutters and the nukes.
Did I hear Hillary apologizing again?
I doubt you heard her the first time.
Whats doing in Dallas? How is the weather?
It’s taken a couple of days worth of posturing for me to make up my mind what was going on, but it looks like the Obama administration is licking the Muslim zealots’ boots. Get’em nice and shiny, there, Hillary!
You are in the right part of the country for cowboy diplomacy. Nuke em cowboy. Anyone who pisses you off, just go for the nuke button.
Only a liberal would interpret everything and anything to be a nuke. Predictable.
Surely you studied hyperbole in college?
Do you think you are insulting me by calling me a liberal? Liberal isn’t a dirty word. I will proudly be a liberal if it sets me apart from your world view.
Way to go Mr. Paul!
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/13/senator-rand-paul-on-the-charade-and-farce-of-debate-in-the-senate/
On Wednesday, Senator Rand Paul (R–KY) requested a vote on two amendments to S.3457, the Veterans Jobs Corps Act. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D–NV) blocked a vote on those amendments and has not allowed a free and fair debate on a very important issue to the American people.
The Paul Amendments would condition foreign aid for Libya, Egypt, and Pakistan on certain preconditions. Senator Paul is very concerned about Pakistan’s continued incarceration of Dr. Shakil Afridi, the Pakistani citizen who helped the United States capture and kill Osama bin Laden.
** Obama has no issue with taking the credit of “We got bin Laden” but the guy that pointed the finger? Obama let him rot in jail.
As long as you and Starry are simpatico, I’m comfortable that my world view is the opposite.
A UK newspaper claims that the US was warned of an imminent attack on an embassy 48 hours before it occurred, but did nothing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html
To show the Administrations counterpoint to the above.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81198.html
@marinm
What would you have Obama do? Are you ready for a war with Pakistan? The USA has this issue on the front burner. They are trying to solve it diplomatically.
I think the issue of foreign aid is a dangerous one. I am glad Harry Reid is blocking the rider. I don’t like riders to start with.
Why would Libya be punished, for example?
@kelly_3406
I hope our diplomacy is not based on the Brit tabloids.
Let’s pretend its true. what should they have done?
Just what is Mitt Romney’s position on Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Israeli/Palestinian question?
Does he support attacking Iran? Would he green light an attack by Israel?
Does he believe we should intervene in Syria?
Would he continue foreign aid to Pakistan?
Would he maintain or increase troop levels in Afghanistan?
Would he return troops to Iraq?
Do any of you Romney supporters even know what his positions are?
Serious questions.
Excellent questions. Answers we should all know. I admit, I have no idea. Does Romney know?
Weather is nice! I am thinking about 10 degrees warmer than home and maybe a touch less humid? I’m in Richardson, two exits away from an enormous Fry’s Electronics… Geeks Paradise! I can’t even put into words how much I love my new job.
Let’s hope that job-love will make you kinder!!!
I am jealous of the electronics store.
Have your ordered iphone 5?
@Moon-howler
They should have increased their security posture. Make sure the U.S. marines are armed and on alert. Work with the Libyan/Egyptian governments to station their troops at the embassy to protect the embassy. Use those troops to establish a security perimeter at least 100 meters away from the embassy. Use the host military to disperse any crowds/mobs growing outside the embassies. Consider evacuating any non-essential personnel. Develop plans to evacuate the entire embassy temporarily with the assistance of the host militaries for security of helicopter flights to the embassy. Make sure the ambassador and other personnel are armed for self-defense.
I am sure there are other things that could be done, but this would be a good start.
@kelly_3406
From what I have read, the consulate in Libya was a lock the door kind of situation, not a compound like a regular embassy.
I simply don’t believe the brit tabloids. They are know for MUS. (making up sh**) It makes no sense why people would want to die at the hands of a mob in the middle east.
Is there something you have read that makes the brit tabloid believable?
It seems that the stupid video is still available on youtube. Now. Is it just me or should youtube have pulled that thing down 3 days ago?
Like any publisher, you tube owns the power.
I simply do not understand. As far as I am concerned, I now hold Google responsible for having material that is offensive.
The Jeruselum Post had a similar story that Egyptian intelligence identified threats against the U.S. and Israeli embassies.
I suspect that there was some warning, but was it communicated to the right people, was there some reason to not believe it, does the embassy receive so many warnings that a real event might get lost, were there even procedures in place to quickly increase the security posture?
Egypt has really been very unreliable. More on that in a few.
@Moon-howler
With respect to your comment about youtube (Google).
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/249423-google-situation-in-libya-egypt-required-taking-down-anti-islam-video
“We work hard to create a community everyone can enjoy and which also enables people to express different opinions. This can be a challenge because what’s OK in one country can be offensive elsewhere,” the company said in a statement issued Wednesday. “This video — which is widely available on the Web — is clearly within our guidelines and so will stay on YouTube. However, given the very difficult situation in Libya and Egypt we have temporarily restricted access in both countries. Our hearts are with the families of the people murdered in yesterday’s attack in Libya.”
It is very much accessible at the moment. I thought it had been restricted also. I read conflicting accounts and I just accessed it.
Google will pull something if there is legal or copyright queston for sure.
I find it amusing that Afghanistan has ORDERED google to take down the video. Google has more marbles than the entire country of Afghanistan. 🙄
That is like a flea ordering a dog to sit up and bark.
I don’t think that google should take the video down for any legal reasons…I do think they should just in the interest of quelling a bad situation. After the Afghanistan ordering…I want to soften that a little.
It’s restricted in Libya and Egypt.
Google can restrict access all it wants, but that won’t be worth a hill of beans. Anyone can download the clip – RealPlayer is good for that as one example – and then distribute it around and around and around.
At this point, sort of like trying to shut the barn door after the cows already got out.
That is very true. My only point is, it is still available on google. As long as that condition exists, google is somewhat culpable. Cut the distribution, people will lose interest.
At least google needs to do what it says it is going to do. I accessed it less than an hour ago.
Ok, I think there is some confusion…
Google = Youtube. Google owns Youtube. Afghanistan can ‘order’ youtube/Google to take down the video (i.e. restrict access to the AF domain)
Of course it will be “available on google” because now that the video is not just on Youtube but hosted in other places google as a search engine just provides the results to a search query. Google could block searches for the video in those countries as well but that won’t stop someone determined to find it.
Also wouldn’t stop people from using TOR to get it.
Google HAS done what it said it’s going to do. Unless you are accessing the video from the AF or EG domains. You are in the US domain. 🙂
“google is somewhat culpable” culpable in what exactly?
“Cut the distribution” how exactly do you do that on the internet? You do realize how this ‘interweb’ thingy works, right?
Google can restrict whatever it wants to restrict.
Marin, I am well aware that google owns youtube.
i stand by what I said. They need to pull the entire thing so no one can access it.
Kelly,
Great point, was the threat communicated to the right people? We want to do, moving forward, is find out how to prevent, or at least anticipate and plan for situations like this in the future.
@Moon-howler
Uhm. How exactly does Google do that if any chuckle head can save a local copy on their laptop?
You must have more IT experience than I so I bow to you. Please tell us how Google can do that exactly. I think you think I’m being argumentative. I’m not. Please explain the technical solution so I can learn.
Yes, you are being argumentative. I said nothing about copies that were already saved, now did I?
And this is why worrying about some little pissant youtube video is useless.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/crowds-torch-german-embassy-in-sudan-as-protest-over-anti-muslim-film-spreads/article4544577/?cmpid=rss1
“Thousands of demonstrators furious at a film they say insults the Prophet Mohammad stormed the German embassy in Sudan Friday, attacking its facade and tearing down the flag to replace it with a black Islamist one.”
Germany?
These people are ridiculous. The imams are using any pretext to attack the West. Because if the West is not the enemy, then their people might actually realize that their lives could be better. But that would degrade the authority of those imams.
Wow. Just wow.
@Cargosquid
Are you totally incapable of attempting to understand how someone else feels? Don’t ever go into profiling as a career.
You know, let me be honest….I am struggling with words here….The point is people are dying over some perceived injustice. Operative word: perceived. It is so much easier to go through the motions than it is to fight a war.
I agree, it is a piss ant video. However, my ass is sitting in my house in front of my computer not in harm’s way. You are in no danger either.
Part of diplomacy is pretending to have manners. We need to pretend to have manners rather than trying to stir up people who simply have no clue about much of anything outside of their own culture and traditions.
Cargo, you want to go to war with people who simply do not live in your world. It is lose/lose.
you won’t win and they won’t win.
@Kelly, I misread that google was blocking certain countries. I thought they were pulling the entire thing. I think they should–just for diplomacy. It would settle things down some.
@Cargosquid
The Imams aren’t the first to practice that concept.
You mistakenly are acting like we (those to the left of John Birch) think the protests are somehow excusable. No, we don’t. Or at least I don’t.
However, I have been on this earth long enough to understand that words aren’t going to bridge this gap. Let’s just not make matters worse by talking about cowboy diplomacy.
Sure we can mow them down. You mow them down and 2 more will replace.
That’s a senseless way to problem-solve.
Our embassy in Tunis is on fire, evidently.
Word is President Obama personally phoned Egypt President Morsi and told him to get up off his ass and protect our embassy there. Today they built a barrier around the grounds. I salute President Obama for exercising leadership during a crisis like this.
agreed Starry.
I read it was a serious talk.
Cowboy diplomacy (not only in the US) is at least partially responsible for the current situation in the Middle East. In no way will I defend the criminals who are killing and maiming people and destroying property over there, and every effort should be made to contain and punish the perpetrators to the fullest extent.
Having said that, the neocon cowboy attitude that all Muslims are the enemy feeds the hatred these people have. I have heard over and over again representatives in congress speak this way- the ruckus over the mosque in Manhattan near the towers was the perfect example. The neocon’s unqualified support for Israel, even when they kill civilians and confiscate private property also feeds this hatred. Our ongoing manipulation of the governments in the region is another trigger for hostility. These people aren’t stupid- you might be surprised what they know. Again, not defending criminal action, but to act like this is happening in a vacuum is truly dangerous.
They could pull it, but settle things down? No, the kiddling was lit, and the bonfire is burning. Look at the couple of bomb threats today on US College Campuses supposenly called in by Al Quida folks.
Years ago in the Army I had to take a Civil Disturbance course – it taught BOTH how to incite riots, control them, and quell them. One thing stressed was to know when a demonstration moved from just folks exercising their protest, to mob mentality.
This has reached mob mentality. I don’t even think if every Iman in every Mosque around the world asked it to stop, it would. The fanatics will continue as they are out for blood.
Iam watching protesters waving tree branches with leaves at the cops…Sudan I think.
strange habits.
I would love to know the ages of these people and their employment status.
Don’t they have jails in these countries?
@Ray Beverage
Well, as a person who often had to work crowd control, Fires deprived of oxygen will eventually go out.
As long as that stupid video is on cell phones there is just a little Oxygen.
I just heard on TV that under President Romney this would not have happened. bwaaahahahahahahahahahahaha
Yea, tough guy. He would be sitting down with the shieks trying to cut an oil deal.
@middleman
I completely agree with you. That’s what I mean when I say that the film is only a pretext.
If not this one, they use another. And so, where does it stop? I don’t mind peaceful protests. I do mind attacks on our embassies and people. Let them protest until the cows come home, as long as they stay on THEIR side of the wall.
@Moon-howler
I don’t want a war nor am I asking for one. I’m asking you then…where do we draw the line? Do we just let them burn our embassies?
I understand that they are angry. I also understand that they are acting in an uncivilized manner. Again, when do they start worrying about OUR sensibilities? Oh, wait? They won’t. To them…its ok to attack people and break things because they are aggrieved.
And so, since they won’t listen to reason, and they reject any overtures from us for a number of reasons, what’s left? Please, tell me. What do you do when the mobs become unreachable like they are.
Protest – fine
Attacks – NO.
And if Obama did call the Egyptian President and tell him that, I applaud him.
I find your response insulting. Stop trying to Jimmy Carter me.
I have been very clear.
They are never going to care about your sensibilities. Get over it and be the grown up.
I don’t even think it is possible to explain to you why I find your responses to me so insulting.
You want to tap on the glass at a tiger and then get all huffy when it jumps out of the enclosure and bites and snarls at you.
Don’t tap on the glass. It is just senseless to do so.
Right now the genie is out of the bottle. Obviously the right answer is to not let them burn our embassies down.
The right answer might have something to do with avoiding such confrontations in the first place but not letting idiots stoke the fires.
There really is nothing else to say. Shooting people is bad diplomacy and probably should be used as a last resort, not the desired problem solving method.
Short term, I have no idea what we do with these mobs. It’s out of control now.
Long term, we get off oil, get out of their (middle east) business, and start “gettin real” with Israel. Not likely, as long as Big Oil owns the US government…
It seems that we are really at the mercy of the host country, doesn’t it.
It is just so much easier to prevent things from escalating this far in the first place.
It shouldn’t come down to us having to balance our principles against each other.
So can one of you conservatives explain what Obama has been doing wrong with respect to the Arab world, and what Romney would do differently?
@middleman
Well said.
I totally agree with you.
@Starryflights
I doubt they can without MUS.
@middleman
Someone on MSNBC today suggested that we stop listening to the 3-year old in Alaska.
Sarah Palin:
Her stupidity helped shoe Obama in office last time. Looks like she is going for the daily double again this year.
Obama and his administration has been showing behind-kissing weakness for three years, bowing to Muslim leaders, apologizing for America, rewarding their hatred of us with huge cash bonuses. How will Romney be different? Who knows? We HOPE he’ll be different. We’re HOPE-ing for a CHANGE.
I’m falling in love with Sarah Palin all over again.
Her stupidity helped Obama, and now we got Obama/Biden. How’s that worked for us? Not so good.
Being involved at all – in my humble opinion. Leave them to rot in their own filth. Lets stop indirectly funding terrorism by supplying these ‘people’ with humanitarian and political aid.
Romney? I really don’t have faith that he’d be that much different than Obama in FP. I think both will continue the policy of intervention in the ME. He may be more hawkish and slap them back (in that part of the world diplomacy isn’t respected – force is) but I doubt we’d do what needs to be done – which is to say for every one of us harmed we harm 1,000 of them.
I think what we really need to do (assuming we keep embassies in the ME) is we have a simple policy. You breach our walls we will use flamethrowers fueled with bacon grease and we will burn you to death.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
They can all become the bane of his existence and he can fire them.
I have seen Hillary just kissing arab ass for these past three years. NOT
Don’t confuse being courtesy with being soft.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
suffer.
She really does act like an infant and definitely not like a stateswoman.
I would think you all would have learned your lesson in 2008.
@marinm
Marin, I might be tempted to agree with you if I thought it would do any good.
It doesn’t and you are greatly outnumbered.
I guess I am suggesting it isn’t a very smart war to wage.
We are in their country. You can napalm them with bacon grease all you want and more would come over the backs of those you just fried.
Easier to close the embassy. Or the host country might close it for you.
marin said
Lets look at exactly who you are talking about. “people”???
Are you referring to all middle easterners? or just protesters?