What do Jane Fonda, Ted Turner, Jimmy Carter, and Scott Brown’s staffers all have in common?
Remember the political fall out at Jane Fonda when she and her husband, Ted Turn, sat in the stands at the Atlanta Braves games doing the Tomahawk Chop? Have we gone that far afield that it is now perfectly ok?
If they family says they have an Indian grandmother, then I suppose they do. Most people I know are proud of their Indian heritage. Often it isn’t provable because old records and bibles don’t keep track of native people. At any rate, who is Scott Brown to say who Elizabeth Warren’s ancestors are?
Of all the things I have seen come up in an election, this one is the most foolish. The fact that staffers are out chopping smacks of racism. It isn’t so much the chop, its the attitude around it.
People of different races and religions have often been reviled in this country. It’s time to stop doing that. Given the treatment oof American Indians in this country, I would just find something else for my campaign war chest.
I abso-freakin’-lutely LOVE it!!! I may have to do a celebratory rain-dance.
BTW, “your great-great-grandmother was a full-blood Indian” is the oldest Genealogical joke in the business. Heck, MY mother told me my 3rd Great Grandmother was a Cherokee princess! Well, there was no such thing as a princess, her side intermarried and spoke fluent Choctaw, not Cherokee, and the Dawes rolls show clearly that my mom was wrong. Nothing against mom, but Genealogy 101, that Indian ancestor…….probably isn’t.
As for “Sitting Bullshit” Warren, it’s what she got for her lie that is problematic. Well, I understand that for a Democrat it’s just fine, but not for folks like me.
That was flippin’ brilliant!
So what exactly did she get?
I always thought I was related to both Patrick Henry and Meriwether Lewis by marriage.
1st one false. 2nd one true according to the genealogist who surfaced after all of that generation died out. Who is to say. People kept records on those two folk. Maybe not so much on Princess Pocahontas.
Perhaps if Warren had no class, she would put all her staffers in mock male appendages to celebrate him earning a little money on the side. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw boulders.
Plenty of people have Indian forebearers. You are just deliberately being a D***head, speaking of past habits of those running for office in Massachusetts.
Now, having said all that. I expect Warren did grow up thinking she had an Indian forebearer. The point is, going around doing the Chop at her really does smack of disrespect to Indians. I don’t cave to every word Indians say either. I don’t back renaming the Washington Redskins, for example. However, there is no reason to make fun of people and this clearly makes fun of the entire state of Native Americans.
That’s too bad. What we didn’t kill by driving them from their homelands, killing most of the buffalo until it was an endangered species, we have done by herding them on to reservations and giving them booze. The alcoholism rate among reservation Indians is astronomical.
Scott Brown needs to get his staff under control and they need to knock off the sitting bull stuff.
I suppose there are 2 great hold outs where its ok to harass, mimic and mock–Indians and gays.
Oh, racism, racism. What’s happening here is a classic lefty-liberal tactic, and it really irks y’all to see it coming from the right, so we howl racism and cry out for political correctness. Sorry, not buying any more!
Hey, look at the bright side: if she can fake four more identities, she can tour as the Village People!!
You obviously realize she has some strong financial credentials. There is obviously something you fear about this woman. I will grant you, she is one smart cookie. I used to think he was. I am disappointed. Perhaps I am allowinging my disdain for your behavior to rub off on him.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Because you are doing it.
How would you feel if I started with the white sheets remarks? These things do have roots in our minds. I think you have a real blind spot going here.
I am not willing to jump on the change game as far as the Redskins go. In fact, my answer to that is tough crap. Its a done deal and they have been Redskins for a long time. It is a name used with honor.
The Braves chop? Neutral here on that one. But to laugh at a woman for saying her so many greats ago grandmother was an Indian and to do a chop at her or over her? Sorry, that’s derisive. You have also spent enough time in the part of the world where deriveness exists intentionally. You don’t fool me.
Its not quite racism but its getting close enough that most people of good taste wouldn’t do it. That should include Scott Brown’s staff. He should be better than that. People that pose for money really have no room criticizing who someone else’s grand mother is.
@Moon-howler
How many greats can you go and still have diversity credits? What is the standard?
I have no idea. I think that is more the problem of the school than the person. Not in to diversity credits.
In a Monday post on the Indian Country Today Media Network, Margo (Kickingbird) DeLaune, a lifelong Democrat, enrolled with the Kiowa Tribe of Oklahoma and a graduate of the Harvard Graduate School of Education called on the alumni of Harvard, as well as the university’s current American-Indian students and staffers to support Warren’s opponent, Republican Sen. Scott Brown, “Because when Warren directly facilitates a corruption of equal opportunity and then disingenuously dismisses valid concerns about her behavior as attacks against her family, she demeans our Native forebears who fought so valiantly to resist assimilation and to preserve our various ways of life,”
Who insulted who?
This is probably the smallest and pettiest of the Republican obsessions. It also shows how little most know about native culture.
Here’s a news flash. Some Indians hate white people. This is especially true in the plains area. Geez. I wonder why that is? ?!!!!!!!
Different tribes have different rules of membership. For example, there are no more full blooded Chickasaw Indians. Their rules are probably totally different than say Lakota or Navajo.
Not all tribes have casinos and not all tribal people profit from the casinos even if there are casinos. Most Indian neighborhoods whether on reservation or not are very poor–a kind of poverty we don’t see in this area. If Indians are getting something for nothing that increases their lot in life, it sure has passed most of them by.
Get over the Chop Chop syndrome, everyone. Once you are told something is offensive and you still do it, then you are just being an obnoxious pain in the ass.
Dispute the lady’s policies. Compare Brown and Warren’s contributions to the political world. Really, no one cares that he is a poster boy and she is 1/32 Indian.
Based on Princess Fauxahontas Warren’s geneology, I wish to claim the same decendency. My mother drives a Jeep Cherokee and my father a Pontiac. That should count right? My grandfather had an early Cadillac – that should count too – at least to be listed by Harvard as a woman of color, or would I have to release to the public my application to Harvard and the justification for my tenure.
BTW what is the deal with Harvard hiring law professors with no law licenses – anywhere?
@blue
Did I leave off that Kickingbird probably needs to stay out of it, unless it is her grandmother also.
Call her by her correct name on this blog, blue. You are being offensive and at best culturally or racially insensitive.
I have been on enough reservations in the west to appreciate that people don’t like being made fun of.
@Moon-howler
I have been on enough reservations in the west to appreciate that people don’t like being made fun of.
Exactly. Me too- inter-mountain and n. plains. Made fun of, used, abused, taken advantage of, lied to, stolen from or otherwise demeaned….
Opps, I am being called offensive, sorry, time to stop challenging the democrate orthodoxy.
You sound like you are just a real expert on native peoples. NOT.
Not being offensive is hardly democratic orthodoxy. Republicans used to have good manners also.
Now lets move past Indian grandmothers (I wish I had one) and look at Ms. Warren’s work on consumer protections. What do you think of those?
@SlowpokeRodriguez
We must be related. I, too, have a Choctaw princess in my background.
I need to check but maybe there is a Mayan Prince or Princess in mine. If that’s true I want reparations from y’all.
Slow: Democrats. The party of tolerance. Unless you disagree then it’s “Shut the F— up you lying, racist, hater!!”
@Marinm
I think that is a statistical absolute. Sort of like being English, you absolutely had a relative fight on both side at the Battle of Hastings.
@Marinm
They are probably glad that you now understand.
@Marinm
I don’t think this really should have anything to do with political party.
What I am hearing is the questioning of someone’s background, making fun of someone who wass proudly claiming Indian heritage, and thinking it is ok to make fun of another “other” group.
If you all get called on it, all of a sudden its LIBERAL and Democrat.
My mom’s side spoke fluent Choctaw, taught in Choctaw schools, traded horses with the Choctaw. 3rd great Aunt marriedthe son of a Choctaw cheif (John Wade). What does that make me? Lilly White!
Let’s see…according to ancestry.com, I’ve got,
English
Welsh
French
Portuguese
Spanish
Choctaw
oh…and
American.
@Moon-howler
They are making fun of her attempt to double down on her “heritage” when its been proven that its false. Claiming a racial preference with no proof is just icing on the cake. And practicing law without a Massachusetts license is the rose on that cake.
So…arrogance, fraud, and no license. TRIFECTA!
You can’t prove heritage. Its not uncommon to not have Indian heritage listed in conventional ways. No bibles and no baptismal records. I can’t believe that even Republicans wold try to deny someone their heritage.
Ask yourselves why Americans either laugh at you all or are repulsed. This is a perfect example of why. You can’t debate her isses. You want to make chop chops at her.
Just go to a Florida State game. That’s the mentality.
You don’t know who her many greats grandmother was.
Does she have law clients? Does she appear in court representing them? No. Don’t worry about it.
Ask Corey Stewart who is running for LT in VA if he passed the Virginia bar. The answer is no. To give him credit, I am not suggesting he failed it. He just hasnt passed it.
Scott Brown should be above all of this also.He’s not a flat earther either.
Maybe Scott Brown and his people are behaving like bafoons because the race is so close? I imagine that this type of behavior will actually lose them votes more than it will gain them.
Warren said ““As a kid, I never asked my mom for documentation when she talked about our Native American heritage. What kid would? But I knew my father’s family didn’t like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware, so my parents had to elope,” Warren says in the ad.”
Brown is slightly behind in the polls and this tactic is desperate. Talk about issues, talk about what effects people’s lives. Her native american heritage
has little to do with solving problems.
@Moon-howler
She NAMED the supposed indian grandmother. It was proven to be wrong. The TRIBE is denying it and asking for an apology.
And yet, she doubles down because she can’t admit that she was lying.
You sound like an old pea-hen sitting around gossiping.
.
I think its important to remember that Warren took her family “lore” as fact, just like Madeline Albright did, well, until she found her both her parents were Jewish, and just like Rubio did until he found out his parents were not cuban dissidents.
I am suggesting people take a deep breath, stop crucifying warren and instead, stick to issues that matter.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/is-elizabeth-warren-native-american-or-what/257415/
So I guess I am wondering, why do people care?
“Pow-Wow Chow”……and we’re grousing about the tomahawk arm gesture?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo
BTW, Overland Park, Kansas is nicer than I would have imagined. Kind of spread out, but really quite nice! The house that Sprint built.
@Elena
I guess cause she’s ignoring it and being evasive. I think a straight and honest (for her) answer would make this go away. After all if she’s the consumer advocate that she claims to be why not have a little truth in advertising?
“I am suggesting people take a deep breath, stop crucifying warren and instead, stick to issues that matter.”
I think it would be easier to do that if she addressed the questions and made it clear that she sought no advantage of her ‘heritage’.
“They are probably glad that you now understand.”
You missed my sarcasm.
“You can’t debate her isses.”
Actually, you can. Its not that hard. Well, not that hard if a person actually answers questions during a debate…
“Does she have law clients? Does she appear in court representing them? No. Don’t worry about it.”
..don’t worry about it? Hrm. I see a pattern here. Someone that represents themselves and something they may not be. Once may be an error. Twice….
“Brown is slightly behind in the polls and this tactic is desperate. Talk about issues, talk about what effects people’s lives. Her native american heritage”
If it smacks of desperation and there is no ‘story’ behind it. Let it play out and let him lose. Sounds like a win/win situation for the libs here?
That reminds me. I need to go to the craft store and buy some war paint…
@Cargosquid
They don’t own the rights to her heritage. Jesus Christ. I cannot believe this discussion.
Cargo, I can’t believe you just called anyone a liar about their ancestory. I think you need to double down on this. It isn’t YOUR shot to call.
Since when do the Delaware get to tell her who or who she is not descended from?
I don’t believe an Indian tribe would make public AHOles of themselves. It isn’t like they have genealogy records. It sounds like some know it all shooting off his or her mouth.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Yes. I will always grouse about stupidity and prejudice.
I am going to say it again….go to a reservation. Take a good look around. Tell me one thing that Indians have gotten. They have to be the very poorest of all the minorities. Its very sad.
There are many homes, for instance, on the Navajo Rez that still don’t have electricty. It costs too much to run the wires to the house. Where else in America would this condition exist?
Frankly, I am just appalled at the level of ignorance. Most families have folk lore about about who the ancesters were. Sometimes they are accurate and other times the family mythology is tainted with the usual baggage that comes with the oral tradition.
I doubt very seriously if Elizabeth Warren LIED. She probably repeated what she had been told her entire life. I did the same thing.
Some family branches are easy to “prove.” Others not so much.
Cargo, you have no information that allows you to call her a liar. You show horrible prejudice when you do that.
Scott Brown has issued a statement that basically states that anyone associated with his campaign has been issued their one and only warning. The behavior is to stop.
Good for him. It should have happened a few days ago.
Good for Scott Brown. Now, to the people of Massachusetts: Keep on Choppin’!!!
We here on the east coast don’t really have to worry about being racist about Indians as much as westerners do. We either killed all our Indians or marched them off to parts unknown several centuries ago.
Shhhhhh! Perhaps they won’t notice.
Yea, right!
Marinm,
she has answered it, move on, unless of course, it makes you feel better to villify someone over family lore. Hey, why not throw Mark Rubio under the bus too, he MUST be a liar to believe his family were cuban dissidents.
George Allen spent most of his life not knowing he had a Jewish grandmother. Does that make him a liar also?
@marinm
She doesn’t need to share her heritage with anyone nor does she owe any explanations. If you don’t like people who are 1/32 American Indians in office, by all means, don’t vote for her. Oh, she is not running in your state? silly me.
I think she is someone I would want in the Senate.
The differences between the poser Warren in Massachusetts and the real deal Mia Love in Utah, could not be more stark. Which side are you on?
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/09/26/oh_my_mia_love_now_leading_in_utah
@Blue
I am on neither side. I don’t know the issues and it isn’t my state. It is a very Republican state, however. What is your point?
Poser? bwaaahahahahahahahahahahaha. And Blue, what is it that you pose as? {giving Elena a knowing look]
I base my statement on the fact that NO ONE can document her supposed Indian ancestry. If you make statements with no evidence, have that lack of evidence pointed out, then CONTINUE to make false statements…that constitutes a lie.
I can say that I’m descended from all sorts of people because my family “lore” says its so. But when I find out that there is no evidence…I stop doing it. That’s the honest thing to do.
I doubt anyone can document much of anyone’s Indian ancestry since records weren’t kept. Most Indians didnt have a written language even. It was all oral tradition before the 20th century…actually well into it.
If your family tells you something for generations, that is not a lie. That’s how most of us know our heritage…from family folk lore. She doesn’t have to prove it to anyone and I seriously doubt if there is any record. My ggg granddfather died right before the civil war started. If he were Indian, which he was not, that would make me 1/32 Indian. Now what kind of Indian records do you think were lying around then?
I seriously am not believing this conversation. Why do you care? You can’t vote for her anyway.
Until 5 years ago I thought I was related to Patrick Henry. I didn’t see him on the chart. Maybe I am. I just dont see him. There is a hell of a lot more papertrail on Patrick Henry than there is on some Indian woman who had no rights anyway. Geez. I also thought I was related to Meriwether Lewis. It is only through marriage. I have not sent out any retractions on that either.
Once again why are you ignoring Rubio and his “lies”, how are they different from your reasons to excoriate Warren?
@Moon-howler
Oh stop Me – LoL Did you watch the videos ???
My point… I am sorry that we cannot have a genuine discussion here about Obama and his AWOL Presidency. I just read some of the June CBP report on deficits, budgets and debt. Scary, really, really, really scary. Debt retirement is now likely to consume 80 to 90 percent of the GDP by 2035. Spain is rioting now with a debt ratio of 40 percent of their GDP. We are already at 62 percent. CBO is quietly projecting an economic crash never before seen. It really is not if, its more about what do you do to prepare. If you had seen the crash of 28 coming what would you have done in say 25. That is the issue.
He has taken a large puddle of very real problems and converted it into a deep deep lake.
And Moon, to my knowledge, (wink) we have never met. Clearly, you think I am somebody else.
I really suggest you not vote for him, blue.
If you are scared you should have been scared a long time ago.
Just who do you think I think you are, Blue? You have dropped so many clues.
I would have really avoided the crash of 29 and the crash of 2008.
Ok, I agree Romney must be crazy. Nobody who has any sense of what the economy is now facing or what that means socially would take this on. He is either a patriot or absolutely crazy. Obama is either ignorant (which I do not buy) or he really believes that he must end American global dominance. My crazy… It might be time for Virginia to succeed – again.
Just because something is not a lie, it is not automatically true (I realize that’s difficult for a lefty to comprehend). If you cannot prove it, don’t claim it. In the real world, we call it due diligence. I did my due diligence, and found out my family’s claims were false. Close, but no cigar. This is similar to the other northeastern Democrat who claimed he fought in Vietnam. Oh, wait, no he didn’t. Well, he’s a Democrat, so it’s OK.
Show me the birth certificate, Professor!!!!
There were no birth certificates back in those days.
Professor Warren isn’t that old…
@Marinm
Now, now…Prof. Warren was born in Hawaii….we all know that… oh. Wait. Never mind.
I’m late to the party on this one, but I have to say that it’s one of those rare political issues that strikes me as pretty stark, and a very negative component of what is otherwise an impressive life history for Ms. Warren. Maybe I just don’t have all the facts. As I understand it, she claimed Native-American heritage to augment her resume. As I further understand it, there absolutely no evidence of any such heritage. The excuse we’ve gotten is “family lore.” That doesn’t really cut it when we live in a society that awards extra credit to persons from minority groups as a means of rectifying past injustices. Unless I’m really missing something here, it seems that she was cynically gaming the system to her own benefit and to the potential detriment of people who might have a legitimate claim to such status. She’s clearly smart and accomplished, but that kind of thing is disqualifying in my book. I think it’s perfectly legitimate for Brown and others to raise this as a core issue, particularly when they are otherwise both good candidates with many strengths.
@Scout, I think we would have to see some signs of personal gain before declaring her a charlatan. I think you have drunk the Scott Brown Kool aid on this one. Since when are people asked to prove heritage? Apparently it was her great great great grandmother who was supposedly an Indian. My g-g-g grandparent died the year before the Civil War started. How do you prove that?
Prince William County used to ask its employees on the school board side of the aisle if you were anything “exotic.” That was more to feather their caps rather than for self enhancement. Apparently showing diversity on a faculty is a good thing. I expect that was Harvard’s motivation.
There are far worse sins than claiming to be Native American. How would records have been kept? Were there written Indian languages back then? No. No family bible either. The records were probably less complete than slave records which are pretty iffy also. It sounds like we are still trying to kick Indians and their existence to the curb, even here in 2012. I believe the lady.
Most people have spent a lifetime trying to hide their heritage to blot out various unacceptable “races” in their lineage. I guess we still can’t be proud.
Today is a red letter day. I think this is the first time Scout and I have ever disagreed.
I find the attempt as reprehensible as whether she succeeded. You can prove your grandparent to the power of 3 died the year before the Civil War by census records, birth/death records, family bibles etc. You didn’t try to puff your resume with that data or enhance your employability with it. Bill Bolling (not someone with whom I am overly impressed) has stated that his family lore states that he is related to Pocahontas. But I doubt that he ever used that on an application.
If Harvard thinks diversity is a good thing, you had better damned well have the goods before you start claiming to be a member of a group that would enhance the diversity affect.
The issue isn’t whether it’s a good or bad thing to claim to be Native American. I would love to be able to make a claim like that. I guess I could if I didn’t care whether it was true or not. The issue is whether you do it without knowing it to be true. The people most offended by this are people who respect Native Americans, not people who degrade them.
I believe, according to Ms. Warren, that she checked the box for Indian after she was employed at the request of her employer.
Interesting that it is done, or used to be done in PWC. It wasn’t to increase employment opportunities, since it was done post employment.
EMployers want to show that they have a diverse faculty.
I can prove great great great grandfathers because they were all white. Try doing that with slaves, Indians, or other non-whites. All of a sudden genealogy gets murker.
I think people have a real nerve tell anyone who they were or were not related to, especially if the person is not rich. Most people rely on bibles and family lore for their ancestors. Very few people have formal genealogists. I am fortunate to have one…well, my family and he is married to a distant cousin.
The tribes who are involved feel an apology is owed to Ms. Warren. The most sickening part of all of this is that it is purely for political reasons.
Notice no one is continuing to harp on Scott Brown posing in the buff for money. Had Elizabeth Warren also posed nake in her youth I will be my next paycheck she would not have been able to walk away from that one.
Meanwhile, I will have to disagree with those who feel Warren is of poor character over her lineage. I went around for more years than I am willing to admit on this blog that I was related to Meriwether Lewis. Now I find out it is by marriage, I guess my character sucks too. It was family lore.