HAPPY HALLOWEEN
FOR TRICKS, TREATS, AND
THE PERFECT STORM
120 Thoughts to “Open Thread………………………………………………Friday, October 26”
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- PW Conservation Alliance
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- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
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- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
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- You, Me and the Lamp Post
The Case for Flip Flopping
Flip flopping has gotten a bad rap since the term was used so effectively in 2003 against John Kerry, but before that it was taken for granted that politicians would regularly flip flop, or otherwise break campaign promises. Flip flopping is not necessarily all that bad, unless it occurs on a core issue, because it provides insight into what issues the candidates do not really care all that much about or for which there are no easy solutions.
I am an admitted flip flopper on abortion issues. My viewpoint is that it is a morally repugnant practice that should be eliminated if possible. However, I flip flop on whether the power of the government ought to be used to eliminate abortion. On the one hand, we do use government to protect the rights of the defenseless. What group is more defenseless than unborn children? On the other hand, do fetuses (fetii?) have rights? And are we comfortable using government to prevent women from ending their pregnancies? So I do indeed flip flop on this issue, because there are no easy answers.
The issue with John Kerry is that he flip flopped on an issue that should be a core belief, which is that equipping the troops during wartime should not be a political issue. As a combat veteran and experienced U.S. senator, he deserved every bit of scorn that he received for that statement.
Unless the flip flopping is on a core issue for the candidate, it should be taken in stride. For example, Romney’s flip flopping on abortion should be comforting for those concerned about “reproductive rights.” It is unlikely to be considered nationally and he does not consider it to be a core issue that he would fight for. Given the importance of getting the economy back on the right track, this is comforting to me, because, were he to win the election, it appears that Romney would not waste his capital on such a divisive issue.
As for your personal flip-flopping, I dont consider that flip flopping. I call it having ambiguous feelings about a situation that has gray areas.
I can’t imagine anyone not at least thinking about the ethical considerations of abortion.
It is also very easy for me to have my personal opinions and my political opinions. I promise you, they do not match.
I doubt that Romney would spearhead an abortion issue but I don’t doubt for a minute he would not sign some draconian measure into law to appease his base.
However, Rmoney has flip flopped on many issues. I see it as wanting to get elected, rather than growth.
That was a bogus flip flop accusation on Kerry. We have to differentiate between defunding a war and not equipping the troops.
I wonder why Romney chose to not seek a second term as Governor? Did he really do a good job as a one termer – or did he push off many of the harder decisions to the future governor. As an example, he wants Medicare reform – but not for those 55 and older – meaning – lets change Medicare 10 years out, after I have left office and the President in office 10 years from now will be blamed. He talks about creating 12 million jobs – which is the same number of jobs that many economists say will be created even if he loses.
Romney made his name as a Private Equity Guy – of course you only hear about the winners, not about the losers – but running Private Equity is not about the welfare of the workers, or creating jobs for people – it is about getting the most money out of the investment. Many of these companies take on large debt to pay out to the investors, and then, they spin the company off in an IPO, taking their money out. They talk about the success of Staples – but what is the ‘net net’ of the success of Staples – how many Mom-n-Pop small business stationary stores closed up? Distributors? Decent paying jobs compared to minimum wage? Yes, for the Private Equity person, this is not a concern – but it is a concern for public officials.
I also question Romney’s character (is character the right word) – when he was brought back to Bain Partners, he negotiated with the FDIC for $10 Million in loan forgiveness (anyone with a bank account paid that), even though the partners just received a large payout, and when he ran for Governor, he had to file several years of tax returns ‘retroactively’, same as when he ‘retired’ retroactively’. How does one retire retroactively – either he was there, or he was not. Did he get a salary – then he was there.
@Pat.Herve
So let me get this straight….
If you invest your personal money into a business, you’re willing to take an ongoing loss and sit in that investment forever, even eventually losing your original investment, if it provides people with jobs?
You do realize how dumb that is, don’t you?
That’s quite a leap. Better manners, please. Pat is being civil. Therefore, same expectation for you.
@Cato the Elder
Cato – if you read what I posted – I said, “Private Equity is not about the welfare of the workers, or creating jobs for people” – but a Government elected official should be concerned about the welfare of the workers (constituents). So, please clarify where my dumb statement is, and I will try and clarify for you.
On a side note, I personally know a few people who have kept their companies running at a loss (personal loss), to keep several employees fully employed.
Thank you MoveOn for giving us this gem.
So not safe for viewing at work.
http://youtu.be/f17fWth3YgA (NSFW)
…bringing civility back into politics.
That is a very good question. I do not know why republicans selected a 1 term governor as their nominee. @Pat.Herve
Romney really does need to get a job or something. What is he doing campaigning while the east coast is trying to clean up after this disaster? That is very unseemly.
@Starryflights
Starry, I am fine that Romney was a one term Governor – what I want to know is why – if he was so good, and did so many good things, why one term? – There may be a good reason, I just do not know.
I think because he ran for president.
I think there is some sort of conservative contingency who is fighting any kind of social restrictions on language. I never realized this until very recently.
I have always worked in a job where being cautious of other people’s sensitivities was a must, especially where race was concerned. I have known since forever that calling my brother “boy” was totally different than calling any black male “boy” and that the latter had to be avoided at all costs. “Girl” was bad but not as bad as “boy.” That’s the first example that comes to mind. I am sure there are other expressions with other minorities that are considered offensive. “squaw” comes to mind.
Jiving and Shucking is simply not used when referring to black folks. The expression has a long history of racial derision . So why would anyone risk offending someone else?
The bottom line is, you can say whatever you want in your own home. However, on the job, you had best conform to politically correct speech even if you don’t like it. I don’t want racially insensitive language used on the blog either unless that language is the point of the discussion, such as it is now.
Totally different to say white people are jiving and shucking or to say it about yourself. That is just an expression I would avoid as part of public speech.
@Starryflights Obama campaigned in Vegas immediately after our ambassador and three other Americans were killed in Libya. That’s unseemly.
Romney helped with relief efforts today. He tried to avoid reporter’s questions. He wasn’t “campaigning”. It’s a good bet you’d find fault with whatever he did this week.
I don’t see anything wrong with continuing to campaign. He was never out of touch. Plus that’s what he has a secretary of State for. I can’t see anything to criticize Romney over either today. Everyone had a job to do.
And before any of the leftists get all wound up about what I just posted, I do give Obama credit for his efforts during this storm. he did a good job.
@Emma
Emma, why shouldn’t Obama jet off to Vegas. It was just about a 14 minute youtube video with only a few hundred views….. nothing to see here…move along…..
Biden the Porno King!!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-im-going-give-you-whole-load-today_659899.html
Obama is doing an outstanding job of handling this disaster. He is touring New Jersey now with Gov. Christie, a republican. Christie gives the Administration high marks for its response. Romney,on the other hand, looks weak and puny, campaigning during a time of national disaster. He even said we should privatize FEMA.
Hey, look! Obama lied to us again. Shocking.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/new-emails-point-to-political-influence-on-energy-loans/article/2512245#.UJGWjVHdtQI
And is this illegal?
http://washingtonexaminer.com/emails-show-obama-admin-used-doe-loan-money-to-help-harry-reids-2010-campaign/article/2512249#.UJGXP1HdtQJ
I mean, these are just little, run of the mill scandals compared to the abandonment of Americans in Benghazi, but we should hold the administration accountable for this.
The ‘I’ of the Storm By MAUREEN DOWD Published: October 30, 2012 66 Comments
The dramatic homestretch ad for President Obama, running on every network and in all media markets, is a home run, devastating for Mitt Romney.
And, best of all, the president didn’t have to pay for it, or even say, “I approve this message.” It was a total gift — and from a Republican and top Romney surrogate.
Gov. Chris Christie, the fleece-wearing, order-barking Neptune of the Jersey Shore, was all over TV Tuesday, effusively praising the president for his luminous leadership on Hurricane Sandy, the same president he mocked last week at a Romney rally in Virginia as a naif groping to find “the light switch of leadership.”…
…On ABC, CBS and NBC, Christie hailed Obama as “outstanding.” On MSNBC, he said the president “has been all over this,” and on CNN, he called Obama “incredibly supportive.” The big guy even tweeted his thanks to the slender one.
Most astonishing of all, the New Jersey governor went on Fox News and spoke words rarely heard on that network: “I have to give the president great credit.”…
…Christie also extolled FEMA, even though Romney has said it is “immoral” to spend money on federal disaster relief when the deficit is so big….
…Just about the only criticism the president got on his storm stewardship was, amazingly enough, from “Heck of a Job, Brownie” Michael Brown, the FEMA chief during Katrina, who naturally thought Obama acted too quickly and efficiently….
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/opinion/dowd-the-i-of-the-storm.html
and a nod here to my friends on the Left.
http://www.romneytaxplan.com/
Romney has an ad where an actress says she heard that Romney opposed abortion so she went to his website and found that it’s just not true. Obama has an ad with clips of Romney expressing his opposition to abortion and pledging to overturn Roe v. Wade and defund Planned Parenthood. Either the actress in the Romney ad or the Romney in the Obama ad is not telling the truth. And speaking of defunding, I saw today that Romney now pledges his support for FEMA. Tomorrow I expect to see him driving a Prius with a PETA bumper sticker while listening to his favorite NPR programs. His principles are as firm as Gumby’s spine.
Obama will be back in Manassas on Saturday. I am assuming he will be at Jiffy Lube.
We do have one thing to look forward to….the author of the Progressive Book of Etiquette and Manners, Alan Grayson should be covering the hallowed halls of the House with his ooze as the rep from District 9! Whoppieee!!
@Starryflights
Thank you for acknowledging that at least one Republican is focused on dealing with problems in a non-partisan way. I think that outside of the rhetoric of campaigns, the same could be said of most Republicans and Democrats.
President Obama is a decent, family-oriented man who means well. I am disturbed by Republicans who attempt to portray him as some sort of monster. He is not. I support Romney for president not because I think Obama is some demon or something, as some in my Party unfortunately try to portray him, but because his policies have failed to revive the economy and create jobs. I think Romney will do a far better job in that area, and would act similarly to President Obama in a crisis such as Hurricane Sandy.
President Bush’s handling of Katrina was not as effective as President Obama’s handling of Sandy to a large degree because the Governor of Louisiana and other local officials did not call in aid from the Federal Government as quickly as they should have. The Federal Government cannot and should not be able to intervene in states without a request from state officials for aid.
My hat is off to both Governor Christie and President Obama for acting quickly and doing the right things in a non-partisan way to alleviate suffering and help get the people of New Jersey back on their feet again.
I’m also fed up with the binary approach to politics and governing that we’ve seen so much of. Obama is not a devil and Romney an angel. Both have different perspectives of how to handle the nation’s affairs. Both want to do what they think best for our nation. There are things I like about President Obama and things I dislike about Governor Romney. There are even parts of Obamacare I like and think we should keep.
I don’t like being pinned into a box of people thinking that I hate President Obama because I support Governor Romney. This sort of rhetoric and bitterness has gotten out of hand on both sides. Overall, I prefer the approach Governor Romney has been proposing to the track record of the past four years of President Obama’s administration. Period. I respect both men and wish both well personally.
@Need to Know
NTK — I agree with you that I don’t think either one is a bad person and, as my on-going court fight with the Obama administration shows, I’m (to put it mildly) disappointed with Obama, but I don’t know what approach Romney is proposing. He seemed pretty clear on where he stood during the primary when he was “severely conservative,” but he’s been all over the map in the general election campaign as he tries to present himself as a less threatening moderate. As an example, he was opposed to FEMA during the primary and then 48 hours after this week’s storm he says FEMA plays a key role and he’ll ensure it gets funding. He said he’d gladly sign a bill banning all abortions and wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade, but now he’s running ads saying he’s not as pro-life as he said he was. I didn’t agree with a lot of things President Bush advocated, but I never doubted the sincerity of his beliefs. With Romney, his beliefs seem to be open to a 180-degree turn from morning to afternoon depending on how the political winds are blowing at the moment. That’s not to say he’s a bad person, just that his approach is rudderless.
Romney is rudderless and ever changing. Hard to trust which direction he would go in.
Mass. governor Romney is easier to support.
Romney is anything but rudderless. He has core values that cannot be breached, among which include freedom of religion – not from it, individual responsibility, work for welfare, a STRONG MILITARY, the rule of law, a limited constitutional government and a limited Federal government in particular, e.g. reliance on the States and competition not a centralized proletariat. But beyond his core values, he is a businessman not an ideolog and that is what we have now. Its about the deal and dealing from a position of strength. You can be confident that we will never have to pass a bill in order to find out what is in it under a Romney administration. You can be confident that Romney will not let three requests for help from an Ambassador go unanswered. You can be confident that he will comply with the rulings of the Supreme Court, even if he beleives it to be bad law. And you can be confident that he will not waste your taxpayer money and will not borrow even more resources to simply waste it in stupid investment schemes designed to reward financial contributors – crony chicago style capitalism. I don’t just want a good family man, I seek an honorable man; someone who would not evoke executive privelege to defend himself or his subordinates or need to.
Michael Bloomberg joins Colin Powell as another Republican endorsing Obama for President. He cites climate change as the reason. Add the new bromance with Chris Christie and Obama is on a roll as people continue to prove Santorum was right.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/nyregion/bloomberg-endorses-obama-saying-hurricane-sandy-affected-decision.html?_r=0
Rev. Joseph Lowery, who gave the benediction at Obama’s inauguration recently quoted as saying: “I don’t know what kind of a n—– wouldn’t vote with a black man running”
Yep….that’s about the size of it!!
The headline reads “Hungry New Yorkers eating out of Dumpsters” and all I can think is: How is that different than any other day?
Well it it isn’t that old Republican care and concern shining through. You don’t have to go that far to see people forced to eat from dumpsters.
Did you make YOUR donation to the REd Cross yet?
I’m the kind of Republican that doesn’t care. As for Red Cross:
“Staten Island Borough President James Molinaro, who called the Red Cross an “absolute disgrace” and even urged the public to cease giving them contributions.”
That sounds like a good excuse just to be stingy to me. How about giving to the Mormon relief fund? They do a wonderful job of coming in behind a disaster. They have a huge warehouse that is blocks long with disaster material….anything people would need in a disaster. The minute they hear of a disaster, they are on the road, delivering help and assistance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Skw-0jv9kts#
“Obama supporters learn (on-camera) about his national security policies. Watch as the amazing human ability to post-hoc rationalize unfolds in real-time.” – a friend of mine
On the plus side Romney and Obama agree on all of those policies… As they do on many, many, many things. Romney/Obama. Vote for the same for 4 more years!
Happened to spend a bit of time in my car today and heard Limbaugh. The man was absolutely apoplectic talking about Christie and Obama. Christie is a traitor. How COULD he say what he did about the President? And being photographed with him? He was actually spitting out his venom.
Hennety came on later talking in the same vein but not quite as fiery. Evidently it’s really eating at those guys. Christie was THEIR guy! Christie can be crude, but he sure doesn’t put on airs.
Christie didn’t hurt himself any. He did what he should have done. Conservatives aren’t as susceptible to being influenced by radio personalities as our liberal friends with their Ed Schultz, Chis Matthews, and their ilk.
Can’t stand to listen to either Ed or Chris. Simply too, too, too, too …..
Some of their “ilk” are pretty easy to listen to, however.
Unions care more about their monopoly than getting help in New Jersey.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/non-union-alabama-utility-workers-denied-entry-into-new-jersey-told-to-stand-down-video/
This is crazy.
slow – you gave me the laugh of the day…thankfully, I did not spew my coffee.
Conservatives aren’t as susceptible to being influenced by radio personalities
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/31632
FYI
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/316132
Steve, very cool article! Enjoyed it.
Cargo, I saw that story and heard that the NY marathon is still being held and food and resources are being moved to support it. NYrs that are eating out of trash cans and having gas rationed are being told by the Mayor to just eat cake!
I wonder if the marathoners will be allowed to suck down gatorade big gulps?
If they pay the required permit fee or fine, sure. This is a *cough* free country after all.
@blue
Blue you are so full of it your eyes are brown. Military? Military is a core value? If you believe that a church related mission satisfies your military duty, well then fine. I had friends who came home in body bags. Do you think they would see things differently? I sure do.
How about those Vietnam vets who came back with extreme PTSD? I have a close relative who was finally diagnosed and given compensation after 40 years. How about those with missing limbs and head injuries? Spinal column injuries? How about just plain mutilatied like the late Lewis Puller, Toddy’s husband?
Don’t even tell me Romney has a strong military core value. He did not serve.
And by the way, I don’t think military service is a prerequisite for being president, just don’t try to hand me bullshit.
You have definitely drunk the kool aid.
but I will hand it to you, at least you said something positive about your candidate. I actually agree with some of it. I think he is an honorable man who has had successes. I would rather see him out there than a lot of other folks.
As for the flip flopping….I just hope he flops moderate. i dont assume to guess what kind of president he will make when he runs again in 2016 for his first term.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Too bad there aren’t more like him then instead of the usual gang of bloviating fools.
Punchak, I agree. I can’t stand hearing Chris Matthews talk.
Ed is ok, he just is in to too much hyperbole. I like Rachel Maddow because she is always classy.
@Steve Randolph
These stalkers need to be shut down. It is no ones business who votes and who doesnt.
@Cargosquid
The marathon should be postponed. How shameful.