The Prince William Board of County Supervisors is expected to vote Tuesday to eliminate the county’s internal auditor department and outsource the work to a contractor, a move that critics charge would deprive the county of an internal, independent watchdog.
In a strongly worded memo, the county’s auditing department said the plan would undercut the county’s credibility and bring in outsiders who are not familiar with the complicated workings of the government, which has an operating budget of $914 million.
“The public should be able to have confidence that there is a genuinely independent internal audit function,” read the memo, which was obtained by The Washington Post.
If the job is outsourced, “taxpayers will never be able to count on learning the truth about what may be going wrong in the county.” The memo also said the plan “would give taxpayers the impression of a county’s desire to not shed light on potentially embarrassing audit findings that could also look bad to regulators or rating agencies.”
Board Chairman Corey A. Stewart (R-At Large), who is also chairman of the Board Audit Committee that oversees the audit department, defended the proposal, saying that change is necessary because the county’s internal auditors did not answer questions or complete audits in a timely fashion. He said that a large outside contractor could also oversee a greater range of audits because it has the personnel and expertise to do so.
He said the outside contractor, McGladrey, which has already been hired, would still report to the board’s audit committee.
Stewart said that the county would hire one internal audit official to oversee McGladrey’s contract, ensuring independence.
“We wanted to make sure it directly answered to the board,” Stewart said. “The job just wasn’t getting done, in my view.”
This is one time I am going to have to agree with Corey. How sweet it is! The Chairman and I are on the same side, albeit briefly.
Whoever was responsible for that memo reaching the press should be fired for starters. No company is going to tolerate that kind of message going off campus, especially to the press. Most employees are always going to try to blame someone else, usually their bosses, for their own shortcomings and I don’t see this one as any different. I would like to think that county bosses are looking out for the public coffers and not leaving the job to amateurs. Some changes needed to take place and those to whom we entrust the business of the county made it happen on Tuesday. Good job.
However, a problem still exists in our community. The problem here is that once again, folks are relying on gossip and hearsay to assess a county situation. They don’t have the entire story and won’t because some of the issue is a personnel issue. We all know those are bound by privacy laws.
There are those out there whose dislike of certain members of the county cast of players drives all their efforts and obfuscates the truth. In recent months, I have seen talk in the “county audience” go from reaction to certain events on the county stage to almost the exact opposite.
Rather than a reaction to certain incidents and events, what I now see are narratives, both true and false, being woven around certain members of the county cast. If those narratives can vilify and cast aspersions on cast members, both elected and employed, then its a been a great day in the blogosphere. As the tales are being woven, the more personal damage that can be done to an individual, the better. The more foolish one is made to look, the more degrading remarks and accusation that can be made, the greater increase of readership. It has become a feeding frenzy.
Some members of the BOCS probably think they are getting a pass. Only one is getting a pass and it is obvious to everyone. To those who haven’t been demonized yet, their turn will come. Even if they have had a turn, another chance might come along.
That really isn’t how I want my news delivered. I want to deal with facts, not made up crap and half truths. I understand not all information will be forthcoming and that some things I will just not be privy to, regardless of how transparent a world I want to live in. Meanwhile, its time for some folks to get their nasty on in another way.
Listening to gossip is just not a good place to be. Everyone from the Bible to Ben Franklin to Forrest Gump has commented on the ill effects of gossip. Go watch a movie instead reading gossip. I highly recommend “Guilt” starring Meryl Streep as a strict mother confessor during the 60s. Here is one of my favorite scenes. Perhaps it will strike an accord with some folks who do blog drive-bys:
Father Brendan Flynn: A woman was gossiping with her friend about a man whom they hardly knew – I know none of you have ever done this.
That night, she had a dream: a great hand appeared over her and pointed down on her. She was immediately seized with an overwhelming sense of guilt. The next day she went to confession. She got the old parish priest, Father O’ Rourke, and she told him the whole thing.
‘Is gossiping a sin?’ she asked the old man. ‘Was that God All Mighty’s hand pointing down at me? Should I ask for your absolution? Father, have I done something wrong?’
‘Yes,’ Father O’ Rourke answered her. ‘Yes, you ignorant, badly-brought-up female. You have blamed false witness on your neighbor. You played fast and loose with his reputation, and you should be heartily ashamed.’ So, the woman said she was sorry, and asked for forgiveness.
‘Not so fast,’ says O’ Rourke. ‘I want you to go home, take a pillow upon your roof, cut it open with a knife, and return here to me.’
So, the woman went home: took a pillow off her bed, a knife from the drawer, went up the fire escape to her roof, and stabbed the pillow. Then she went back to the old parish priest as instructed. ‘Did you gut the pillow with a knife?’ he says. ‘Yes, Father.’ ‘And what were the results?’
‘Feathers,’ she said. ‘Feathers?’ he repeated. ‘Feathers; everywhere, Father.’
‘Now I want you to go back and gather up every last feather that flew out onto the wind,’ ‘Well,’ she said, ‘it can’t be done. I don’t know where they went. The wind took them all over.’ ‘And that,’ said Father O’ Rourke, ‘is gossip!’
Volunteers get a pension? With county tax dollars?
I can’t help you out there Lyssa. I have no idea why we do things like this in PWC. Surely that part is simply in error.
Why ARE we paying for a pension for volunteer firefighters? Who knows the answer to this one?
Did I read that right?
I am not so sure that outsourcing the audit function is a good idea – I can point to several instances where a hired auditor’s contract was not renewed because they were sniffing around the board that did the hiring. Of course, the newly hired auditor did not dare go look at the same thing. Look at Enron and the Arthur Andersen scandal – they were outside auditors.
I know in Fairfax internal audit reports to the CXO. And they are county staff. But PWC isn’t staffed like Fairfax so maybe that’s why. It’s cheaper – no pension or healthcare or office space.
Predictably, the pillow was guutted more. Gossip feathers flying all over the place.
Predictably, there has to be an enemy.
Obviously some folks weren’t paying attention about who answered to whom back when the audit services staff was formed in 2009.
If memory serves me, the Audit Committee (4 BOCS-ers) hired the Audit Staff, yet a certain CXO still gets the blame, even if it wasn’t on her watch.
I find it disturbing that the BOCS already hired a contractor so quickly after the decision was made. Were any other bidders considered? What is the relation between this firm and Mr. Stewart? Does he have friends or relatives in this firm?
While the BOCS may have a right to replace the internal auditors, there is, at the very least, a perception here of independence impairment.
And if the internal auditors are doing a bad job, as Stewart claims, he can always replace them. I see no need to throw the entire office out.
Great thread Moon! Loved the feather pillow analogy, very powerful. Doesn’t seem to me that there is an issue here, move along folks, nothin to see.
It seems to me that there are issues with the internal audit group. Unless there is some proven nefarious connection between the new auditors and the CXO and the BOCS, this is all conjecture.
Here is the problem as I see it, the CXO and BOCS has done a wholefully inadequate job of explaining why this new route has been chosen, therefore, the conspiracy laden birdies are easily convinced that there is wrong doing afoot.
I imagine the CXO and BOCS can easily fix this concern shared by some citizens.
So Mr Stewart didn’t like the internal auditors’ report that volunteers were managing their own pension funds poorly. Setting aside the notion that volunteers get pensions, poorly managing pensions, this is a very serious issue, one that is rife with potential fraud and corruption. Not good. This is utterly outrageous. This is one of those “fox guarding the henhouse” scenarios.
Starry, the report was incomplete. There are reasons not to like things. It could be you don’t like the news or it could be that a report didn’t cover the objectives that the humans were told to cover.
It wasn’t the first time. It was an on-going and habitual problem.
I believe the office was dissolved last night and the people left were RIF’ed. It was a small office. I also think that the external auditor has been in place for a while. Operative word, ‘think.’
Was the report incomplete or were there things in it the BOCS didn’t like. Were the auditors overstepping their bounds or did their report embarrass the County Exec. Did McGladrey operate within the bounds of their task order or did they go beyond to secure further work. Were the auditors incompetent, poorly trained or was their task order incomplete. Did the auditors fail to meet their deadlines, did the BOCS refuse to meet with them or did the County Exec. fail to facilitate the meeting.
The list of questions is seemingly endless when you throw in questions of actual and future cost, past accomplishments and future expectations, not to mention that nobody knows who the point of contact is at McGladrey (and that may open another can of worms if that person is now at a new firm) and despite Corey’s assertions, the list of auditors is not on their website (besides which office are they in Vienna, Richmond, Florida or possibly the Cayman Islands).
There are simply too many conflicting statements, memos and reports to get an accurate picture of what really happened or what the future portends. At the end of the day, its simply another mess created by arrogance/incompetence at the highest levels of County Government. At this point, they all need to go, elected and professional staff alike as they have effectively destroyed the ability of the residents to have any faith or trust in their actions.
The report was incomplete. Sometimes, it’s as simple as that. I’ve see these reports, and that comment is consistent with what I’ve seen.
It’s perfectly ridiculous to think that everything the BOCS or the CXO touch is a conspiracy or a coverup. McGladrey could only have received a contract for auditing is through an open advertised request for proposal. Requests for proposal are advertised publicly with all other county pending bids. The fact that this was being outsourced was well known throughout McCoart months ago.
These allegations and conspiracies are immature. Are there questions that should be answered, certainly, but get some facts instead of acting like third graders.
I think the poster at 7:08am hit the real issue on the head, why are volunteers receiving a pension with tax dollars –
The only reason we know that volunteers receive pensions from our tax monies is because the internal auditors told us that they did – the ones that Cory Stewart just canned.
Further, just what is this nonsense that this new firm was contracted to determine whether the internal auditors’ function should be outsourced? What did anybody think their conclusions would be? It’s outrageous!
Federal inspectors general have means for employees to report suspected fraud and abuse. What is a county employee who suspects fraud supposed to do? Is he supposed to contact this private accounting firm to report fraud? That firm is under no obligation to investigate fraud without a specific contract to do so.
If you ask me, this is tantamount to the state outsourcing the police or the state prosecutor’s office. That office needs to be independent and needs to have the discretion to decide what and whom to prosecute, just as the internal auditor needs to have discretion to determine what subject matters to audit.
This stinks to high heaven.
The DoIT embezzlement was discovered by a whistleblower.
Audit Services was directed to look at the pension fund.
Contracted police services is more common than you realize, obviously.
McGladrey did not decide that outside auditors were needed. (Did you just make that up?)
Audit staff are hired by the BOCS audit committee.
Audit staff report directly to BOCS.
I believe the above was directed at Starry.
Starry, have you been reading gossip?
No, I didn’t make that up about McGladrey. According to the WaPost article Moon linked, McGladry reported that the internal audit group should be eliminated and outsourced, and McGladry got he contract, conveniently. The article even quotes county executive Ms. Peacor confirming this.
You need to read your articles thoroughly, Moon.
Oh, I read it. Why do you feel that *I* need to read the article. I simply directed the comment. the Rottingham reporter comment 6:56. I often work from the dashboard so perhaps the order wasnt the same.
You are confusing me with THE Rottingham Reporter I believe. I didn’t say anything of substance recently nor did I comment on the article.
@Starry.
From the article:
Stewart said that Tuesday’s vote on the audit department should not come as a surprise. The board voted Sept. 25 to have McGladrey, the contractor, which had been working with the county auditors on a part-time basis, assess whether the department should be fully privatized.
Since then, Peacor said the county’s human resources incorporated the company’s findings into a report concluding that the audit department should be privatized.
McGladrey is the 5 th largest accounting firm in the US – the recommendation came from the Assurances Company not the Consulting Company.
Lyssa–where did you get the idea the volunteer firefighters got a pension? Important to remember there are firefighter s who are county employees and they will be eligible for a pension I presume if the stay long enough.
Lyssa:
I apologize. I didn’t mean for my question to sound snotty. I would have thought volunteers didn’t get anything but a warm handshake and a pat on the back. But here is some info:
P.S. From the Fire Department web site: “Our department is a combination volunteer/career organization with more than 470 male and female career personnel and an additional 60 non-uniformed staff members. We operate out of 24 fire stations throughout Prince William County.”
And here is the answer on retirement benefits for volunteers:
“For every year you are a member, you will receive $10 per month when you reach retirement age. For example, if you are a member for 20 years, you will get $200 a month after you reach age 60. It is vested 50% after 5 years and 100% after 10 years.”
It seems like a fair deal to me–we get a lot of good help for practically nothing in return.
It will be interesting to see just who vets and hires the new auditor. If the CXO’s fingerprints are on it anywhere, there will be another squabble. She is already being blamed for shutting down the present office because she did not like the results of what they were doing. But as Moon suggests, that may well be a bunch of male bovine merde.
@George S. Harris
Career firefighters in PWC are under VRS – not managed by the county. I did some checking on PWC Volunteers. Apparently they manage that pension, it’s underwritten but the VFD manages it with their own Plan Administrator. You recall problems a few years ago with PWC volunteers and procurement practices. Fairfax manages its own pension program, volunteers do receive a personal property tax exemption as do PWC volunteers but a Fairfax doesn’t have a pension benefit that I could see.
I think Moon is on the right track – an awful lot of assumption going around.
I am just wondering who will be attacked today and over what.
Its sort of like a crap shoot. We ought to start running odds.
Let’s put it this way, I know who I would bank on NOT being the recipient of the politics of personal destruction.
Whooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!! The scapegoat du jour has not yet been posted.
Let’s see, yesterday the fair haired child was none other than the great Mr. Stewart. Of course, that was right after he was Rotten Ronnie…
Oh dear, I just can’t keep up.
Water must have started to flow uphill, or the sun rose in the west, or something, but I have to agree with Starry. This whole situation stinks and there’s no way we can get independent, objective audits, or an ability for whistle-blowers to speak with any degree of security anymore.
The only way a system such as the one they are implementing would work would be if we had a chief executive who is beyond reproach and completely worthy of our trust. To avoid running afoul of Moon’s rules I leave my comments there.
It sounds like you are looking for a priest or a shrink with those qualifications.
People have left all sorts of details over here, including me.
Its really not all that complicated.
Disgruntled employees who didn’t do as thorough of a job as is required on an habitual basis. Happens all the time.
Comments?
@Moon-howler
The scapegoat is fixed. It’s the conspiracy that changes. And changes. And changes. We’ve all had those helpful communication classes that help identify disgruntled employees.
Nancy Lyall used to run the sensitivity training classes for the county. I understand she used to do a darn good job. Maybe that’s what we need. Sensitivity training.
New scapegoats. Come one, come all. A few school board members, a couple of new board members. Share the wealth.
I hear the board members are marking their doors with the blood of the sacrificial lamb so the Angel of Death will pass them by.
Someone had better tell the school board members about the protection rites.
Or anger issues 🙂
@Moon-howler
Moon, that’s sort of the point. We’re not going to get a priest, saint, or anyone that most people would trust completely and that’s why I think this system is not workable.
Also, I met Keller and the other audit people. Keller was a CPA, as was Robin, and they had (some working on) fraud detection credentials. They were good people. I don’t consider them just disgruntled employees.
Meeting people isn’t an assessment of anyone’s work. I also wasn’t criticizing county employees by name.
I named a former county employee but I was complimentary to her.
The county employees in question chose to name themselves by releasing a detailed letter to the press.
You don’t see them as disgruntled employees? Excuse me. Do you think they have been happy over all of this? It has been going on for quite a while. I doubt very seriously if they were happy.
Did I wake up in an alternate universe this morning? I’m agreeing with Starry. Moon is criticizing County employees and I’m defending them. What’s going on?
This is weird. I rarely agree with NTK and disagree with Moon, but this is an exception.
I’m telling you, Moon, this is a bad idea all around. Has nothing to do with spreading gossip or disgruntled employees. This is the type of function that is inherently governmental and should not be outsourced. It is like outsourcing the county proseutor’s office, which would effectively allow to determine who gets prosecuted for what. Bad idea
I don’t think I have taken a strong stand on out-sourcing. However, at the moment someone needs to be in that position. Who do you suggest we have as an auditor?
If I am a supervisor, and I need you to go audit something find out x, y, and Z, and you come back with only x, and I still don’t know y and z, what should I, the supervisor do about it?
I think what I see is Corey really doing a not so great job explaining why the board took the necessary steps they did. Everywhere I go in the blogosphere I see the wrong reasons being stated for what happened.
It will be up to Corey, the chairman of the audit committee to give a detailed explanation of what the problem was.
The problem took on a life of its own and Corey does not have control of this genie out of a bottle. That’s too bad. If people knew why, they would probably be on Corey’s side.
Here you go, chickadees and doubting Thomases:
http://www.pwcgov.org/government/dept/oem/PressRoom/Pages/Internal-Audit-Privatized.aspx
The questions are most illuminating.
Introductory paragraph, page 3 from
Length of Service Award Program (LOSAP) Audit report
I don’t know who is still following this thread.
Anyway, the five questions listed above need to be asked of the volunteer fire departments who are responsible for managing these funds, not the auditors. Question 5 especially regarding the volunteer fire company that failed to remit $176,000 to Hartford. That’s a lot of money! Where the hell is the money? The auditors found that these funds are missing. This is serious, man!
Sounds to me like the auditors did their job. It is up to the county to follow up. Outsourcing the auditors is tantamount to shooting the messenger. Don’t blame the messengers.
The auditors didint finish the job. It was their job to find out the answers to those questions.
They were tasked with finding out the answers. They didn’t do it.
The county officials have nothing to do with it, they have not been given access.
I hope this makes more sense now.
The messenger wasn’t shot. the people who didn’t finished the task were shot for turning in a “complete project” that wasn’t finished…see the 5 questions.
I agree, Starry, there are some serious questions to be answered. The bloggers were too quick to jump on county employees on this one.
This is all fall out from mismanagement of the fire levy by the volunteers. Remember that from back 2-3 years ago?
This story still has some life in it. Elsewhere in the blogosphere, certain bloggers are suggesting all sorts of conspiracy theories. Granted the whole thing is confusing because it goes back to mismanagement ofpast fire levy funds by the volunteers. County officials have nothing to do with that. They have no access to the funds.
Unfortunately, the audit services dept didn’t get the job done. Now there are all sorts of folks out there boo hooling over those poor blokes.